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View Full Version : If Rob does leave early, who's our center for '11?



thespywhozaggedme
06-14-2010, 03:40 PM
Keep in mind, I did say if, and I know most of you disagree with me, but I still think if he put's up 13/8, or something close to that, he's gone. For selfish reasons, I hope that I'm wrong. But, say hypothetically that I am right, who takes over @ center? Sam isn't tall enough, is he? Kelly isn't wide/big enough is he? Potential recruits Nelson Henry @ the Bhullar Bros. are 2012, correct? So, who's our center after Rob, if he does leave early?

BobZag
06-14-2010, 03:46 PM
Sam Dower. jmo.

thespywhozaggedme
06-14-2010, 04:05 PM
Sam Dower. jmo.

Yea, you think he's big enough? What's he about 6'8?

BobZag
06-14-2010, 04:11 PM
Yea, you think he's big enough? What's he about 6'8?

6'9" and by 2011 will be a solid 250#.

stevet75
06-14-2010, 04:25 PM
Wasn't Batista 6"9"? He seemed to overcome his vertical challenge.

Gonezagaga
06-14-2010, 04:29 PM
I stood next to Batista on more than one occasion and would guess he wasn't much taller than 6'7". I think if he was 6'9" he would be in the NBA.

Reborn
06-14-2010, 04:32 PM
6'9" and by 2011 will be a solid 250#.

Little Baby maybe? Boy have I ever enjoyed HIS game with Boston Celtics. That JuJuan Johnson the center for Purdue is a great center, and I think he's only 6'9".

However we will have 6'11" Kelly Olynyk who just could be 7'0" by his Junior year, and way more muscular. I really like Kelly, and haven't seen Dower play yet.

MDABE80
06-14-2010, 04:54 PM
Sam can play center...like it's an important position name anymore? I've said this for years: no matter what it's called, an athletic big man is what's needed. 6 ft 8-9 in is plenty.

Kelly would shock me if he's ever muscular....it could happen but man he'd need a whole new diet and tons of gym work. He's not much of leaper either.

I know this: I'm NOT suiting up again! period! We'll find a good one if Rob leaves. He won't...he's got a solid committment to us. He'll live it out....and excell. Believe me...he needs work if he'll see the NBA first round. He can do it but mid season he dropped out last year...after an amazing warriorlike start. He needs to have 1 full season of intensity...and he's in.

BobZag
06-14-2010, 05:01 PM
Sam can play center...like it's an important position name anymore? I've said this for years: no matter what it's called, an athletic big man is what's needed. 6 ft 8-9 in is plenty.

Kelly would shock me if he's ever muscular....it could happen but man he'd need a whole new diet and tons of gym work. He's not much of leaper either.

I know this: I'm NOT suiting up again! period! We'll find a good one if Rob leaves. He won't...he's got a solid committment to us. He'll live it out....and excell. Believe me...he needs work if he'll see the NBA first round. He can do it but mid season he dropped out last year...after an amazing warriorlike start. He needs to have 1 full season of intensity...and he's in.

Agree wholeheartedly.

hooter73
06-14-2010, 05:11 PM
Kelly and Sam will be on forward that plays center duty ala Austin (to a lessor extent) and Josh. I dont think NCAA hoops will turn completely like euro ball and will still have a need and usefulness for true centers even though winning teams more often than not are doing without.

webspinnre
06-14-2010, 05:20 PM
The days of the true center in NCAA basketball are long gone. Sam can play the '5' that is currently used in college.

Reborn
06-14-2010, 06:17 PM
We must remember that Mark Few likes low post players who can play with their backs to the basket and who can develop an array of low post moves, as well as learn to pass. The passing part is where Rob really needs to improve. If he leaves the Zags will need someone who can post up low. Few was never happy with Heytvelt playing the 5 because he continually wanted to play outside. If Rob leaves, and neither Kelly or Sam can post up low than I say Few will bring in a Junior college player as he did with JP.

kitzbuel
06-14-2010, 06:29 PM
2011 is Rob Sacre. If he were to not be available due to injury or some other issue, Sam Dower is the man.

After that it is between Dower and Darien Nelson-Henry.

snebzag
06-14-2010, 08:29 PM
This subject still bothers me, I don't know why. I have been told the teams that go deep only have one true Center, the teams that go deep don't need a 7' tall monster. Still I worry. Injury or RS goes early, who fills in? Sudden Sam with a year under his belt may do fine, but I like a guy who is a Center, only plays center. I don't know why I keep thinking this way when it has all been put to bed by those on the board much wiser than I. Still I just can't leave it alone. I want a BIG man on the dotted line. Deliver me from evil and the re-occuring dream where Stockton is jumping center at the tip cause he's our big man. Shivers......Mommy!

dim4sum
06-14-2010, 10:02 PM
There is a remote chance, if any, Rob will leave early. If by next season he eliminates the following tragic flaws, then who knows what can happen:
1. Surprise people on offense. While he ponders his turnaround jump, anyone with quick hands can do something to disrupt his efforts.
2. Involve your teammates. Pass out from a double team.
3. When you board, ignite a fast break with Waltonesque outlet passes.
4. Play intimidating D without fouling.
5. Take trampoline lessons. A guy your size should be blocking three times as many shots.
6. Get serious. Get angry. Get intense.
Do all that and you could go in 2011. But it won't happen, trust me.

thespywhozaggedme
06-14-2010, 10:09 PM
There is a remote chance, if any, Rob will leave early. If by next season he eliminates the following tragic flaws, then who knows what can happen:
1. Surprise people on offense. While he ponders his turnaround jump, anyone with quick hands can do something to disrupt his efforts.
2. Involve your teammates. Pass out from a double team.
3. When you board, ignite a fast break with Waltonesque outlet passes.
4. Play intimidating D without fouling.
5. Take trampoline lessons. A guy your size should be blocking three times as many shots.
6. Get serious. Get angry. Get intense.
Do all that and you could go in 2011. But it won't happen, trust me.

In 8 years of posting on these boards, I've never neg repped anyone ever. Your post really tempts me. :mad:

GUDan07
06-14-2010, 10:32 PM
In 8 years of posting on these boards, I've never neg repped anyone ever. Your post really tempts me. :mad:

While I don't agree with the entire list, Rob was maligned by many of those things. He absolutely needs to learn how to pass out of a double team. One-on-one, there are few centers that can hang with him. However, as we saw last year, the solution for the opposition is to bring a double and he becomes an automatic turnover machine. I don't know how many times I was screaming at the TV last year for him to find the open man.

DADoZAG
06-15-2010, 06:49 AM
While I don't agree with the entire list, Rob was maligned by many of those things. He absolutely needs to learn how to pass out of a double team. One-on-one, there are few centers that can hang with him. However, as we saw last year, the solution for the opposition is to bring a double and he becomes an automatic turnover machine. I don't know how many times I was screaming at the TV last year for him to find the open man.

Quite right Dan. The list, IMO, is much shorter…

1. Stop the rockin’ and rollin’ at the line.
2. Chin the ball.
3. Handle the double.
4. Keep Bobbi off the court, and ball as Big Rob.

As for Dower, 6’9 and 250 with length and athleticism could produce a very nice center. It had better.

Donny Daniels will be busy...

Go ZAGS!

Edited to add: the Bobbi comment isn't meant to question intensity or effort. But when Big Rob shows up then Sacre has a calm presence with a volcanic undertone that is very impressive.

Martin Centre Mad Man
06-15-2010, 07:03 AM
This subject still bothers me, I don't know why. I have been told the teams that go deep only have one true Center, the teams that go deep don't need a 7' tall monster. Still I worry. Injury or RS goes early, who fills in? Sudden Sam with a year under his belt may do fine, but I like a guy who is a Center, only plays center. I don't know why I keep thinking this way when it has all been put to bed by those on the board much wiser than I. Still I just can't leave it alone. I want a BIG man on the dotted line. Deliver me from evil and the re-occuring dream where Stockton is jumping center at the tip cause he's our big man. Shivers......Mommy!

Syracuse lost to Butler when the 'Cuse center was limited by injuries. The Zags need a real back up.

Can't we give Big Will an extra year of eligibility because he only played about two complete games worth of minutes in four years of eligibility? The dude could defend both sides of the key at the same time.

kitzbuel
06-15-2010, 07:07 AM
During Rob's freshman year he was much criticized for his bad habit of putting the ball on the floor after getting an entry pass instead of going straight up. When he came back last year he had obviously fixed that problem admirably. He was a beast a Maui.

Now the next step in his development is obvious to us all and will be just as obvious to him and the staff, handling the double teams that now come since he responded so well to his prior problems. I fully expect him to show the same type of improvement in this area as he showed with the entry pass. He has shown to me that he is coach-able and can improve.

titopoet
06-15-2010, 07:29 AM
The other thing that Rob needs that he has no control over is post passes to him. He was good when they got him the ball early and crisply, but many times the guards got him the ball late, allowing the doubles. I hope all of the guards work on entry passes. Better pass into the post will increase Rob's production.

hooter73
06-15-2010, 09:02 AM
The other thing that Rob needs that he has no control over is post passes to him. He was good when they got him the ball early and crisply, but many times the guards got him the ball late, allowing the doubles. I hope all of the guards work on entry passes. Better pass into the post will increase Rob's production.

That should be fixed with the development of the existing and addition of the point guard players this year:D

I share the weird thing of knowing true centers are a thing of the past but still want one. Maybe its the confrence opponents we are up against but it seems to me that a true big man can really lay the hurt in the WCC. We saw it with Bryant and Samham and while Rob hasnt yet put up numbers like theirs he still has his way with lessor opponents, which like it or not that is the confrence we are in. Outside of the WCC it may be a bit of a different game.

cjm720
06-15-2010, 09:03 AM
In 8 years of posting on these boards, I've never neg repped anyone ever. Your post really tempts me. :mad:

Really? DimSum nailed #1,3,4. Personally I think Bobby's gonna blow up this year.

cjm720
06-15-2010, 09:04 AM
While I don't agree with the entire list, Rob was maligned by many of those things. He absolutely needs to learn how to pass out of a double team. One-on-one, there are few centers that can hang with him. However, as we saw last year, the solution for the opposition is to bring a double and he becomes an automatic turnover machine. I don't know how many times I was screaming at the TV last year for him to find the open man.

I think this was less of an issue towards the end of the year. There was an obvious concerted effort to improve his decision making upon the doubles.

roxdoc
06-15-2010, 10:59 AM
I too thought that Robert improved quite a bit on the double team issue later in the season.

Final4Zag
06-15-2010, 11:07 AM
I too thought that Robert improved quite a bit on the double team issue later in the season.

+1

JPtheBeasta
06-15-2010, 11:25 AM
I think the issue of the double team is why Few added some shooters this year. When Rob has only single coverage he is a good scorer.

If you look at Sacre's block totals it will surprise you if you think he doesn't get enough. Rebounding, on the other hand...

My general impression (maybe more of a hope than anything) is that if Few thought Sacre was leaving early he would have recruited someone to fill his spot this year.

maynard g krebs
06-15-2010, 03:35 PM
Rob publicly promised, during his frosh yr or before, that he would not leave w/o a nat'l title. So assuming he keeps his word, and he seems like a guy who will, I'd love to see him leave early.

Colbyspapa
06-15-2010, 04:20 PM
If Rob averages 17pts, 10boards a game, he is gone and you cannot blame him. The draft has not been kind to Seniors, or Zags. He will be 22 years old and will have all the hype necessary to be a first round pick. He will have his degree and you cannot hold a young man to a verbal promise he made when he was 17 or 18 when it affects the rest of his life.

This young man has been a great ambassador to our school and I am very pround of him regardless if he plays his senior year or not. We have seen great Zag talent get passed up by the NBA. If he has a real shot at being first round or even a lottery, it is a no brainer in my opinion. Sam Dower will make a great center in another year.

jpwils
06-15-2010, 04:39 PM
If he puts up 13 and 8 I would be thrilled- he improved first half of last season
and shows that he is teachable. In my opinion he has made some strides in the right direction.

However, let's see how high Samhan is drafted this year and let the chips fall-
doubt Rob would be first rounder unless he carries us deep in the tourney and does better against similarly -sized bigs and very tough, physical teams.
Thought he played reasonably well against Michigan State last year, though.
If he can duplicate that performance ALL SEASON ...he will be a definite first rounder NEXT year. If not-then he will be drafted after his senior season in
second round.

thespywhozaggedme
06-15-2010, 05:26 PM
He out played Soloman Alabi in our tourney game against FSU, Rob had 13/9 and missed 4 ft's, and Alabi is projected as a late lottery/first round pick. Next year is an extremely weak year for centers; other than the big Turk Enes Kanter, I can't see another one rated higher than Rob. Another thing, if Rob does put up 13/8 as I predict, the only centers in this years draft to do that are Cousins and Whiteside, both projected to be lottery picks.

Bogozags
06-15-2010, 05:51 PM
First.
Last year at this time, we were hearing about how Andy Polling was just tearing it up. I expected, from all I read, that Andy and Rob were competing for a starting position; however, I didn’t see Andy play until he had “mop-up” minutes during the first part of the season and the next thing we hear is he’s transferring.

Please explain to me the difference in “your” evaluation process of Andy and Sam! I have not seen Sam play. Last year everyone was touting Andy and now Sam is receiving those same accolades.

What makes Sam the real deal as Andy didn’t pan out at D1? On what do “you” base your opinion?

Please don’t misunderstand me, I wanted Andy to be successful last year and want Sam to be successful this year but how could “you” have been so wrong this past year about Andy? What makes "you" believe Sam is the real deal this year? Is there something I missed in reading these hundreds of posts, that makes “you” so positive about Sam's "guarenteed" success?

Secondly.
There are a many skeptics that feel Rob isn’t ready for the NBA and won’t get drafted. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter if it is right or wrong, in fact, I can be as wrong or as right as the next person.

JMO Rob has to do a few things better this year and if he does, his draft stock will rise dramatically and we will lose him.

I believe, if he improves the following Rob will leave and become a first round pick; therefore, I think it is better to plan as if he will leave:

1. Remain motivated and confident, while playing within himself for the entire season;

2. Become a master of the glass;

3. Play a stronger disciplined defense in the lane, thus mimizing his mental mistakes - committing those silly fouls;

4. Develop a jump shot for use when facing the basket;

5. Be quicker at recognizing the double team;

6. Really "want the ball;"

7. Improve his FT shooting and

8. Lead by example

Some guy said, “Failure to plan is planning to fail” and IMO, the coaching staff is planning hard for 2011 to get a post player to take Rob's scholarship. Coach Few won't ignore the very strong possibility that Rob will improve and move on.

dim4sum
06-16-2010, 01:49 PM
rob, I hope you were watching gasol of the lakers last night.
13 boards, 17 points and nine big assists. The last stat is especially impressive. The guy knows where everyone is and how to find them.
Watch what gasol does and do the same thing. Copy what's good.

UberZagFan
06-16-2010, 04:21 PM
This discussion is about as useful as discussing whether IF the M's win their next 20 games, then should they not trade Lee???

ZagsGoZags
06-16-2010, 04:23 PM
6'9" seems to be enough to be a Center these days
Tyler Hansborough was 6'9" if I am not mistaken,

hooter73
06-16-2010, 05:12 PM
and he got shut down by Josh who hated being a center

maynard g krebs
06-16-2010, 05:19 PM
He will have his degree and you cannot hold a young man to a verbal promise he made when he was 17 or 18 when it affects the rest of his life.

This young man has been a great ambassador to our school and I am very pround of him regardless if he plays his senior year or not.

Agree, people have the right to change their minds. I'd never criticize him if he did, just saying my impression from a distance is that he seems like one of those kids who stays. Who knows.

As an aside, though, we call 18year olds adults and send them to war and let them vote. It's old enough to understand being accountable for one's words, imo. In this culture we delay the maturation process. In doing business and traveling in the 3rd world, I've spent time in places where it's commonplace to see 11-12 year olds carrying out adult responsibilities.

hooter73
06-17-2010, 08:39 AM
i was an extremely smart idiot at 18 years old.

The Oregon Spike
06-19-2010, 11:31 AM
He is not NBA ready in one year, unless he balls out of his mind....No downside for Gonzaga here either way. We get him for 2 more years, or he drives us far in the tourney....

kitzbuel
06-19-2010, 12:24 PM
He is not NBA ready in one year, unless he balls out of his mind....No downside for Gonzaga here either way. We get him for 2 more years, or he drives us far in the tourney....
Exactly. IMO, Rob could go early if it is his performance that gets the Zags to the Elite Eight or better. I would take the trade any day.

MickMick
06-19-2010, 01:33 PM
Remember Syracuse last post season?

Remember the huge pregame concerns (for them) about their injured center?

Remember what they did (to us) without their injured center?


In my opinion:

A much, much bigger hit would be losing a playmaking, high IQ, leader.
Oh wait.....I think that has already happened.

Yet people are scratching thier heads about the most recent recruiting.
I'm not scratching my head.

Some may argue that the issue of losing Bouldin has still not been resolved.
The answer is: Throw enough mud against the wall and some will likely stick.
Bouldin's niche will be the most difficult to replace....the recent recruiting reflects that. Players like him don't magically appear.

Start with finding a close approximation and go from there.

I think that is exactly what Few is doing.