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View Full Version : Bouldin 1 of 5 biggest draft combine snubs



cggonzaga
05-20-2010, 02:22 PM
The conventional wisdom is that Bouldin doesn't have the athleticism to play in the NBA. Despite being this year's West Coast Conference Player of the Year, his backcourt versatility is perceived to hurt him because he doesn't seem to have an NBA position.

For much of Bouldin's career at Gonzaga, he was the team's best playmaker because of his outstanding court sense and passing ability. However, playing point guard in the NBA would be problematic as his lack of lateral quickness would be exposed by smaller guards. And while he is a career 38 percent shooter from behind the college 3-point line, Bouldin was an inconsistent shooter as a Zag.

Ultimately, Bouldin may find himself making a team that values a young player with a good basketball IQ, who is versatile on offense and whose athletic liabilities could be hidden in a good defensive system.



From Fran Fraschilla. It will be interesting to see if Bouldin gets drafted.

gamagin
05-20-2010, 02:38 PM
from a disinterested third party observer. I wonder if and until a Zag 1-2-3 player makes a dent in the bigs, whether there wouldn't be some sort of stigma on him going in.

Also, until a Zag star dominates his opponent pretty much throughout the season, and the team outplays, outsmarts or comes damn close in the post-season, well, there's not much else to compare him or us, too, that screams big league material.

So now, it's up to Matt to show them differently. I hope he gets the chance. Just like JP, JH, MD, Ritchie, Dan and many others before him.

Clearly, Ronny & AD have reached a level of success & security, while Adam survives on the bubble and may or may not find a career at the next level.

But in terms of creating a fast track from GU to the bigs, lets just say were in the early stages of that development and the progression is still much better than most of the rest of the country.

Stockton being the huge exception.

MDABE80
05-20-2010, 02:55 PM
I think Gamagin is correct. We usually/rarely recruit fast, leaping or terribly
athletic kids. Meech has super good athleticism as does Elias. Gray is medium for the NBA even though he is above average for our Zags.
I think the NBA is looking for superior athletes who run, leap and shoot FT's and from 3pt land if they're not 5's or 4's.

We win plenty with the kids we get but it's a tribute to conditioning, coaching and just smarter than normal players. In my view, we never got the best out of Matt. He tailed off the last several games because of cumulative injuries. I think Matt should be given a chance since he's recovered nicely. I feel there's more to basketball than just being a superior athlete. I'd love a big guard who can protect the ball and shoot well when he's not injured.

ZagNative
05-20-2010, 02:55 PM
Link to that Fraschilla post is here (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft&id=5204267).

Anyone know for sure what's up with Matt? He was working with a trainer in Tampa Bay briefly and then returned to the 303, where he's been tweeting about doing pool workouts (http://twitter.com/mattbouldin15). I've wondered if he's been recovering from the injuries he picked up during the season and if that might have been complicating his draft preparations and plans. He's been pretty mum on twitter, save for his usual restaurant reviews!

webspinnre
05-20-2010, 03:20 PM
Matt earned the opportunity to prove himself and should've been invited. As for making it in the NBA itself, I have my doubts, but I wish him all the best. I know he'll work hard, and he's got the IQ, just don't know if that'll be enough.

CDC84
05-20-2010, 03:40 PM
No one needs to feel sorry for Matt. By this time next year I'd be surprised (assuming he doesn't get chosen) if he's not making more money overseas than most of the players who will be chosen in the 2nd round of the NBA draft (especially when you factor in the overseas tax breaks). His game is perfect for Europe.

LAZAGFAN11
05-20-2010, 03:45 PM
I know that Mitch Kupchak (Lakers) and Mike Dunleavy (Clippers) were both looking at him, Elias, and Sacre at the Pepperdine game this February. NBA scouts from Los Angeles always come to that game and the LMU game. We'll see if he gets drafted . . . his IQ is off the charts and I think that is increasingly becoming a hot commodity. I see the good NBA teams such as the Lakers and the Celtics playing more of a team game, rather than the one-on-one brand of basketball that we have become so accustomed to watching (Lebron, Wade, etc). These types of teams will be looking in the 2nd round to snag a quality bench role player such as Bouldin who has the smarts and intelligence along with the athleticism to run an offense.

I guess we'll have to see if anybody is smart enough to take him.

bballbeachbum
05-20-2010, 03:56 PM
gamagin and Abe making sense I think.

could Matt play for Sloan maybe??? he did not appear healthy at the end of the season, that's for sure

bballbeachbum
05-20-2010, 03:58 PM
No one needs to feel sorry for Matt. By this time next year I'd be surprised (assuming he doesn't get chosen) if he's not making more money overseas than most of the players who will be chosen in the 2nd round of the NBA draft (especially when you factor in the overseas tax breaks). His game is perfect for Europe.

sounds awesome to me!

zag buddy
05-20-2010, 04:53 PM
Speaking of money does anyone have any info on what any of our former players are making playing overseas?

dim4sum
05-20-2010, 05:45 PM
my guess is Denver picks up Matt in the second round, because homies are a crowd favorite.

gum797
05-20-2010, 06:39 PM
my guess is Denver picks up Matt in the second round, because homies are a crowd favorite.

This would help the Nuggets shed the image of being the Thuggets but he would have to be a 2 here since Chauncey and Lawson are on the team. I think the biggest thing that will hurt Matt is how he performed against long, athletic top players. I really hope someone will take a chance on him because I really feel if he gets a chance to go against players like that everyday, then he would adjust his game accordingly

gamagin
05-20-2010, 07:06 PM
Speaking of money does anyone have any info on what any of our former players are making playing overseas?

A few years ago Matt Santangelo and Casey Calvary had horror stories of not getting paid. I remember Matt talking to a spokane sports luncheon I attended and noting there were 2-3 teams he had played for that still owed him money.

However, I haven't heard a word about the situation since.

There was talk back then, too, of the NBA making some of these teams farm (development) teams, and that would have been a good thing.

But I haven't read a thing since then. Would love to know.

Maybe Zagnative, the GUB researcher extraordinaire, can find something on this situaiton. We sure have enough Zags overseas to make the topic worthwhile.

AzZag
05-20-2010, 07:47 PM
For selfish reasons, I hope Matty B gets paid in big time Euros that are worth something...that would mean my stock portfolio would be fairing better as well...raise your hands (or keyboard) if you are sick of hearing about the fall of Europe!

:mad:

ZagNative
05-20-2010, 07:49 PM
I did see a comment on one of my random searches that indicated that the reason Micah Downs left Zadar, Croatia, was due to problems getting paid.

bigblahla
05-20-2010, 07:55 PM
I would think at least one GM would recognize that in Matt you have the optimum super-sub, a tough competitor with a high BB IQ, good handles, above average passing ability, offensive threat from anywhere on the floor. these are qualities you want on the bench to help use up regular season minutes and still win games.

The positives outweigh the negatives, solid floor general for 5-10 minutes a game.

Thanks again Matty B you were a joy to behold on the hardwood. :D

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

229SintoZag
05-20-2010, 07:56 PM
Put Bouldin's career up against John Stockton's while both were at GU.

Does anyone here think Stockton, were he coming out today, would be drafted at all?

I don't.

Which is a pretty damning indictment of the current NBA mindset on picking players. Stockton is a hall of famer who has more steals and assists than anyone ever. But if he were coming out today he'd be headed to Europe. Give me a break. At some point the established ability to play basketball should factor into the professional basketball draft in this country.

I'm not saying Bouldin would have a similar career necessarily. Who would? I'm just a bit skeptical of anyone who would claim that he couldn't play in the league.

CDC84
05-20-2010, 08:01 PM
The guy who I know is making bank is Batista. He's been making well over 6 figures for several seasons....tax free. He said a few years ago that BC Lietuvos Rytas (the team he was with at the time) was paying for his housing, his car, just about everything. The tax free status and free living expenses is a big deal. But unlike some of Gonzaga's other overseas players, Batista was a highly desired commodity in international circles coming out of Gonzaga. He could pick and choose and go with a reliable team.

I think Bouldin has a chance to succeed overseas more than any guard Few has had. He just has the perfect game for it. Hopefully he'll get to be able to pick where he wants to go instead of settle. That's really important when it comes to developing a basketball career overseas. Again, assuming that he doesn't stay in the states.

gamagin
05-20-2010, 08:34 PM
Put Bouldin's career up against John Stockton's while both were at GU.

Does anyone here think Stockton, were he coming out today, would be drafted at all?

I don't.

Which is a pretty damning indictment of the current NBA mindset on picking players. Stockton is a hall of famer who has more steals and assists than anyone ever. But if he were coming out today he'd be headed to Europe. Give me a break. At some point the established ability to play basketball should factor into the professional basketball draft in this country.

I'm not saying Bouldin would have a similar career necessarily. Who would? I'm just a bit skeptical of anyone who would claim that he couldn't play in the league.


Frank Layden took on JS as a project & wound up with a winner. It's possible for MB, too, if someone takes a chance on him. It would be up to Matt to continue to grow and improve and keep his job. But first it takes someone in power to believe in him.

JS not only met, but exceeded everyone's expectations, especially Layden's, by getting better every year.

JS pretty much improved each year at GU, too, and seemed to have peaked at the end of his senior year, gaining alot of attention. He continued that improvement and his production throughout his pro career. Which means he never stopped working on every aspect. to a point of obsession.

And that's where MB and JS seemed to part company.

No one worked harder, on and off season than JS. He is legendary in that regard. If you think about it, so, too, were the work ethics of Jordan, Reggie, Malone and now Kobe and a relatively small number of pro athletes who have gone on to become superstars & HOF members.

At any rate, here's a pretty good encapsulation of the Stockton story.

Except for this: his dad told me long ago John wasn't sure he was good enough, either, to stay with the Jazz.

And that is why he pretty much hoarded his signing money, figuring it would be his nest egg should he not last in the bigs. He was planning even then to take advantage of every minute he had in the bigs, and to save every nickel he could get, just in case. He played that way and he lives that way, to this day, imo.

The rest is mostly right here in this story:

http://www.ringsurf.com/online/2197-john_stockton_point_guard.html

Jyz
05-21-2010, 12:00 AM
The guy who I know is making bank is Batista. He's been making well over 6 figures for several seasons....tax free. He said a few years ago that BC Lietuvos Rytas (the team he was with at the time) was paying for his housing, his car, just about everything. The tax free status and free living expenses is a big deal. But unlike some of Gonzaga's other overseas players, Batista was a highly desired commodity in international circles coming out of Gonzaga. He could pick and choose and go with a reliable team.

Clubs paying for housing & car & taxes is standard outside of the US. Thats because most player doesn't stay longer than an average of two years at a single club i'd say. It makes things easier for both club and player.

Go Asia if you wanna experience real luxury. You are a star there, you get your own chef and things like that.

I'd like to see Bouldin in Europe. I think the Bundesliga would fit for him. Ravio ins't the most athletic either, but he lives through it. A solid 10/3/3 or something like that would be possible for Matt I think.

Birddog
05-21-2010, 05:31 AM
Frank Layden took on JS as a project & wound up with a winner. It's possible for MB, too, if someone takes a chance on him. It would be up to Matt to continue to grow and improve and keep his job. But first it takes someone in power to believe in him.

JS not only met, but exceeded everyone's expectations, especially Layden's, by getting better every year.

JS pretty much improved each year at GU, too, and seemed to have peaked at the end of his senior year, gaining alot of attention. He continued that improvement and his production throughout his pro career. Which means he never stopped working on every aspect. to a point of obsession.


Stockton received some favorable attention while at the Olympic trials. He and Barkley were the last two cut by Bobby Knight from that '84 team. Knight took his own guy Alford. The trials were held at Indiana University.
There's a story that Barkley and Stockton grabbed a cab after getting word they were cut and Barkley told Stockton "we'll show them they screwed up" or words to that effect. BTW, that '84 class had Jordan, Alajuwon, Barkley and Stockton in it.

Here's a little trip down memory lane.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY0n7vyCy8E

And a great article by that guy Blanchette.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/sep/10/journeys-end/

CanadianZagFan
05-21-2010, 07:13 AM
my guess is Denver picks up Matt in the second round, because homies are a crowd favorite.

Do they need another Coby Carl?

bballbeachbum
05-21-2010, 08:53 AM
Put Bouldin's career up against John Stockton's while both were at GU.

Does anyone here think Stockton, were he coming out today, would be drafted at all?

I don't.

Which is a pretty damning indictment of the current NBA mindset on picking players. Stockton is a hall of famer who has more steals and assists than anyone ever. But if he were coming out today he'd be headed to Europe. Give me a break. At some point the established ability to play basketball should factor into the professional basketball draft in this country.

I'm not saying Bouldin would have a similar career necessarily. Who would? I'm just a bit skeptical of anyone who would claim that he couldn't play in the league.

interesting take...think I agree. it's not like great basketball occurs in the association throughout the season. crazy athleticism, crazy ability, yes, but some teams (term used loosely here) really play crappy basketball.

ZagKing09
05-24-2010, 09:34 AM
I think that Bouldin will actually be benefited (in the long run) by getting snubbed / underrated at this point. He will slip in under the radar and have a decent career. But I still think that in the end, his real legacy will come as a coach. His knowledge of the game, and potential to develop young guards will make him an asset (and likely a head coach) at a college down the line when he is done playing...