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View Full Version : Manny, Elias, Steven and Rob can play "D" like Butler



thespywhozaggedme
04-06-2010, 05:48 AM
The thing that separates their Bulldogs from ours, is that they're constantly in someone's face, playing tenacious "D". The good thing is next years roster has several players that are very capable of replicating the same thing; the coaching staff must emphasize that though; go for every lose ball, rotate on help defense, etc. Thankfully, I believe our new hire was just for that purpose. Recent years past, we have been a bit soft and prima donnaish, truth be told; this upcoming team is back to the blue collar hustle that we knew and loved and got Butler where they were last night. Manny is gonna be a STUD with his rebounding and defense. Next year is gonna be exciting.

P.S. Anyone else notice Butlers head coach looks like Richie Frahm?

ZaginLaw
04-06-2010, 06:07 AM
I think it's more likely they can play D like Butler before they can play D like Dook. But forget Butler, I want them to play D like Dook. Dook played a lot better D than Butler. The defensive stances the last couple of minutes were impressive. Look at the spacing & switches. Coach K locked down Butler's ability to shoot an open three over the final couple of minutes, forcing them to Zoubek in the middle and we all know who won the battle of Haywards fade away vs. Zoubek.

Dook D > Butler D

ZagLawGrad
04-06-2010, 06:08 AM
Can? Perhaps.

Will or want to? Not sure.

roxdoc
04-06-2010, 06:36 AM
Elias will have to work very hard indeed to even get in the shadow of either Duke or Butler style defense. Great asset to the team on O but D not so much.

FuManShoes
04-06-2010, 06:48 AM
Active hands, active feet - Butler and Duke bring that every possession, the Zags don't.

wazZag
04-06-2010, 07:18 AM
I think Manny will be a great defender at some point, but he still needs to work on keeping his man in front of him. Great length though. I wouldn't bet against him.

Birddog
04-06-2010, 07:23 AM
Butler
http://www.thedailygreen.com/cm/thedailygreen/images/sawdust-pile-lg.jpg

Gonzaga
http://www.pioneersawdust.com/images/product-sawdust.jpg

B-hamZag
04-06-2010, 09:20 AM
We need play man to man not zone, Every flippen year a team comes in drives the lane kicks out to an open three...were done. Untill we stop watching the ball and instead stay on are man we will continue to get sucked into the middle leaving a open three!

BobZag
04-06-2010, 09:40 AM
Elias' weakness is D. I'm sure Few has told him to work on D this offseason when playing for Germany. Few and Dirk Bauerman have talked, I'm sure. He'll get lots of D coaching from the staff when he is not in Germany.

MedZag
04-06-2010, 11:28 AM
Everyone can play defense like Butler, and very, very few can play defense like Butler... if that makes any sense. It's a mentality, don't know how much of it you can really teach.

MDABE80
04-06-2010, 11:33 AM
If anyone recorded some Butler games, it's quite obvious that they had the players with quick feet and the desire to play defense. I'm not sure we have the personnel to play D like Butler or Cuse.
Their kids had serious desire to harrass out front. Always extended the other team's offense....kept pushing them back out. Not much penetration. Even Duke had trouble penetrating. Butler and Cuse played very tenacious defense. Duke too.

Takes desire, quick feet and dedication. I wonder if Ray just makes do with the kids he has. Defense wins games....we're better but quite a long way away from the defenses we saw last night. Few doesn't demand it...he's more of an offense coach. One might think the light would go one one of these seasons. Rebounding and defense is what GU needs. Does anyone think some opponent would have 3 's killing them when it comes to Duke, Butler, Cuse? Unlike us, they defend the 3 balls like crazy....and the results are obvious. Do we have the personnel to play like that?...or is it a failure of the will to play defense like that....?

ZaginLaw
04-06-2010, 11:41 AM
Dook's zone doesn't allow wide open 3's. They extend the zone - the Zags pack it in too much and help at the incorrect times, allowing for a kick out to a wide open three shot.

cjm720
04-06-2010, 01:13 PM
We are young. I expect this class and squad to improve exponentially over the next year or two, on offense and defense.

We are close to where we need to be to campaign forthe national chamionship.

2011Zag
04-06-2010, 01:44 PM
The difference is first reaction quickness, whether it be in a zone or man to man.

GU is always a bit slow reacting to opponents first step and this causes others to suck down which opens up the rest of the perimeter . It is pretty simple.

We are constantly the victim of drive-and-kick.

Getting down in a defensive position and having a desire to defend is what is needed.

RockandRollJames
04-06-2010, 03:01 PM
I would say a huge part of defense is scheme and I didn't see anything from our scheme this year to suggest that we can play that calibur of defense.

Kiddwell
04-06-2010, 07:32 PM
Butler
http://www.thedailygreen.com/cm/thedailygreen/images/sawdust-pile-lg.jpg

Gonzaga
http://www.pioneersawdust.com/images/product-sawdust.jpg

Birddog,

Please explain the allusion. Kiddwell's clueless (like that never happened before). Wheat?? Wheaties?? Breakfast of Defenders?? :o

Regarding the other posts above: Wasn't a former knock on GU's defense that we didn't have "athletic" players? Isn't that situation now turned around -- that is, we HAVE great athletes now?

:]

Birddog
04-06-2010, 08:01 PM
Please explain the allusion.
Butler saws more wood.....more often.....continuously even.

Few uses the expression "to keep sawing wood" from time to time.

"A picture is worth a thousand words"..........or not.

Ezag
04-06-2010, 08:16 PM
I would rather play defense and offense like Duke. It seems like when we have a great offense our defense sucks and vise versa. Be nice to see the fruition of both this coming year although I think our D will not be up to par.

I think Defense will be our weakness. Rob plays decent D, we all know Steven Gray does, Goodson's got D, but Elias, Manny, Bol and Kelly O need to seriously work on their D in the off season.

krozman
04-06-2010, 08:18 PM
Gonzaga has consistently played down to its competition for the last 10 years, with a few teams being the exception, not the rule.

That, given the number of different players we have had, is probably the achilles heel of Mark Few.

Zag79
04-07-2010, 12:47 AM
this is a topic i often wondered about anyway, since all the meech hating began. if a guy can play d like meech, and shut down the oppositions best player but cant score... is he actually worse than a guy who scores 17 but lets his guys hit 5 threes and a few layups like matt or harris? i think the best defensive zags team will take place next season, im excited.

ZagLawGrad
04-07-2010, 07:19 AM
I'm convinced that the Zags have all the physical and skilled talent they need to go very deep.

But I'm also convinced that the Zags do not have the "Butler" factor---the intensity, desire and mindset to make every play and every game count. Talk X's and O's all you want----the missing link is the attitude and desire that originally launched the Zags into the national spotlight 10 years ago.

Until that changes, there will be no next level for this program.

2011Zag
04-07-2010, 08:00 AM
75% of defense is desire and communication