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View Full Version : Overview of the game. It's simple



Reborn
03-21-2010, 10:57 AM
Mark Few said it best when he said to beat Syracuse the Zags would have to make shots. We didn't. It really was that simple.

Matt: Shot 3-13 overall. 0-6 from beyond the 3 pt line. 2-2 from the line.
Gray: Shot 3-11 overall. 3-9 from beyond the 3 pt line. 0-0 from the line.
Meech shot 05 overall, and 0-2 beyond the 3 pt line. And 0-0 from the line.

For Syracuse Johnson scored 31 and shot 11-16 overall and 4-6 from beyond the 3 pt line. Routins scored 24 and shot 7-13 overall and 5-9 from beyond the 3 pt line. And Trish scored 13 (all in the first half) 2-5 from behind the 3 pt line. That's 13 for 24 (over 50%) from beyond the 3 pt line.

I don't care what anyone says, Meech is really bad on defense. It was, once again so obvious today. We all know his liability with the ball in his hands. Can't shoot, can't pass (maybe he doesn't turn the ball over, but has he had an assist all year? He can't hit cutters, he can't hit guys going back door.

And Matt had to have a great game. He didn't. Not even close. Syracuse, for whatever reason stepped up. Even without their center. Johnson came out on fire, and Matt came out shooting duds.

To win against great teams you have to be great. This is not a great Gonzaga team. To win in this tournament you MUST be able to shoot behind the 3 pt line. This Gonzaga team was a HORRIBLE 3 pt shooting team today, and for a lot of the year. Matt had a great shooting year up to the loss against LMU. Since then Matt has NOT been a factor accept against Florida State. I am anxious to find out if he has been hurt. This was the same Zags team that lost to St Mary's by 20. The Zags were not good at the end of the year.

MDABE80
03-21-2010, 11:09 AM
Reborn...your post is among one of the few I agree with. We need many things. Just don't have them. I will always wonder what happened in the 2nd half of the year. Bright spots to be sure were prent but the TEAM failed and looked disinterested. Letting teams back into games is bush league. Every sedond half of every game was treacherous. Not sure why...but your post is one I cannot say better....I am confused as to why this team because so bored. They even looked out of shape and tired. Leaving those shots and free throws so short means tired legs...and the will to fight hard to win has been noticeably lacking.,

zagfaninmt
03-21-2010, 11:10 AM
This was the same team that beat Florida State two days earlier.

This team got beat by the team that may very well win the tournament. Let's keep this in perspective and look ahead to team building with next season in mind.

FuManShoes
03-21-2010, 11:21 AM
I think we just really have to tip our hat to the Orangeman. This was not a case of the Zags losing to an inferior opponent, which I believe would have been an accurate assessment had FSU pulled off the comeback. This was a case of a high-quality team displaying its talents and simply making shots all game long. Johnson and Rautins must be applauded for coming out on fire and staying that way. Unfortunately, our quality guards, for all their versatility, simply are not as consistent of shooters and not good enough defenders. If they get hot, Gray and Bouldin can be deadly, but they are extremely streaky and today both were off in a game their shot was sorely needed. Our X-factor, Kong, is simply not ready to deliver at this level. He needed to move more, get shots and make shots. He didn't. Meech has never been a three-point threat and couldn't be counted on to be one today. In a word, we were doomed since we were facing a D that demands teams shoot well. I applaud Few & Co for the approach with patient ball movement and passes to Harris and Sacre on the low block. Maybe if Syracuse wasn't clicking on all cylindars that offensive scheme would have been enough to pull the upset. But in the end Syracuse brought it and GU didn't. I don't fault the effort, the gameplan or the environment, but the matchup was a bad one and today we saw why.

Reborn
03-21-2010, 11:55 AM
Well said Fu. Syracuse is a kick ass team and we got owned. That is all there is to it. You could have changed a million things, we could have hit a ton of shots and we would have still lost.

Sorry JohnnyBonzaga: But we would not have lost if we had hit a ton of shots. Our frontcourt players had great games. Great. We lost BECAUSE we shot poorly. POORLY. Let the Zags shot llights out like Syracuse did and have them just shoot half as good as they did, we win.

I too thought the Zags looked really tired, and worn out mentally. The anouncer said that Gonzaga lost in the second half of 8 out of 10 of their last games. That was true. Maybe our OOC schedule really does catch up with us. And maybe it does take something out of a team to fly back East and play two games with only one day of rest.

From the very beginning I thought our seed and draw was really really bad. I was so disappointed on Selection Sunday. Let the Zags play in San Jose rather than the Huskies. Why did they desrve to get to play there rather than us. As much as I hate to say it though, I think the Zags did get the seed they deserved. They really did NOT play that well at the end of the year. A loss to LMU and getting blown out by St. Mary's by 20 I believe was the evience the Committee used to send us back East.

Bogozags
03-21-2010, 12:03 PM
SU is the best team in the country, I have seen them play at least eight times and they only had two bad games against UL and they just didn't match up well with them and as Coach Few said today, UL hit shots they had to hit.

As a team we shot poorly and it wasn't because of the defense but just missed them...think back to past NCAA tourneys...in Blake's last game he couldn't hit shots either...Don't believe Ravio had a good game either and now Matt didn't shoot it well! Maybe it is the stress of expectations of the last game or being the "leader" of the team or something else...

This was a hard loss for the team and the fans to take and really feel bad for Matt Boldin in his last game. Now this season is over and we need to focus on the positives of the very good season had by GU.

This will be Stephen’s Gray’s team and I feel he will take the lead and do very well…

Robert had a very good second season, he will only improve next year…

Elias will be back for his sophomore season better, seasoned and very dangerous…

KO will have learned much and will be so much stronger next year…

Manny will be back healthy and we did miss him and he will be a force with which to be reckoned…

BK will have this season under his belt and believe he will be much hungrier next year…

GJ had a learning year and see him getting lots of minutes next year, especially as he builds on his outside shot as his defense is very good…

Meech’s athleticism is what makes him potent on defense and his quickness is key on the break BUT he needs to find a way to shoot from the outside…

Grant Gibbs has so much heart and he is so intelligent, it will be interesting to see where he plays next year as he has skills galore

Sam will be a great addition to the front line and will have learned so much from working for one season with the team…

Michael, with this season behind him will be able to contribute more than just in practice, he appears to have a keen basketball mind and has skills to go along with them…

The cupboard is not bare; in fact it will be quite full! We have a very promising future and who knows if there is another new ZAG not yet introduced.

So long Matt, Will, and P-Maag, thank you for all you gave us! May you always have calm seas and fair winds at your back…

FlagZag
03-21-2010, 12:15 PM
Some Silver Lining Reborn. Our Bigs played very tough today. Olynik, Sacre, Harris and (next year Dower) will all be back for anywhere from 2 years to 4. You combine that with a pt guard who can get them the ball, score about 10 pts a game and this team could absolutely dominate. We could also use a pure shooter at 2. One wonders what SMC would do vs 'Cuse with their inside out game? Like it or not the 3 pt game is vital. Lets get one.

IdahoZagFan
03-21-2010, 12:32 PM
Agree with FuMan Shoes and Bogozags.

zagfan1
03-21-2010, 01:45 PM
The Zags were confused with SU's zone. They had some trouble finding each other in the passing department and overcompensated by making unusually strong passes to each other. The defense did not look good. Maybe they should have played man to man because they let the Cuse take a lot of open looks and they made them. We missed a lot of shots but i think a lot of those shots were not taken in rythm or rushed. We got frustrated especially Harris.

EngineerZag
03-21-2010, 01:55 PM
Totally disagree with just about everyone in this thread. The game was not lost on the offensive end nearly as much as the defensive end. Our offense actually looked pretty fluid against the zone (especially in the first half) with Rob and Elias both shooting 8-12 and scoring 17 and 24 respectively, and Steven and Matt got tons of open looks that just didn't drop for whatever reason. We shot 42% and scored 65 points, could be better but that ain't bad, guys. We also got to take 60 attempts versus only 53 for the Orange.

But when you allow the other team to shoot 55%, including 12-25 (48%) from three, it's gonna be a long day. And it was more like 63% until their subs came in.

I also would have liked to see a little more aggressiveness in getting to loose balls and rebounds. I loved it when GJ came in and helped fire up the team in that respect.

vandalzag
03-21-2010, 03:09 PM
You need at least 2 shooters to break open the zone. Today we had none. Bouldin just was not there. He did not even to try and assert himself until well into the 2nd half. I cant' remember him being so stagnant on offense. When Goodson was on the floor Syracuse was able to extend pressure away from him, since they did not have to defend him at all. Like any other team that has played GU this year, he was welcome to shoot as much as he wanted. It is really easy to play zone when you do not have to cover one of other offensive players. This is where the loss of Arop hurt, he is energy and confidence were sorely needed. Goodson's offense did not lose the game today, but today his defense was worse than his offense,he was late to show and was ducking under screens rather than going through them. While he is a good on the ball defender, he is brutal away from the ball (as is Harris). Anybody know if Goodson was hurt or did Few sit him in the 2nd half because he had seen enough?
Overall it was a very good year to get here after losing all that experience and talent form last year. But this was a 4 man team that was built to go as far as Bouldin could take them. All the minutes played early in the year had it's effect. Bouldin looked spent and disengaged the last few games. The team overall looked like a tired team that folded when they got punched in the nose. Time to reload and move on. The coaches need to find an shooter and somebody to run the offense for next year or it will be more of the same, early success peaking in Feb and coasting to an early exit.

gamagin
03-21-2010, 05:19 PM
I think we just really have to tip our hat to the Orangeman. This was not a case of the Zags losing to an inferior opponent, which I believe would have been an accurate assessment had FSU pulled off the comeback. This was a case of a high-quality team displaying its talents and simply making shots all game long. Johnson and Rautins must be applauded for coming out on fire and staying that way. Unfortunately, our quality guards, for all their versatility, simply are not as consistent of shooters and not good enough defenders. If they get hot, Gray and Bouldin can be deadly, but they are extremely streaky and today both were off in a game their shot was sorely needed. Our X-factor, Kong, is simply not ready to deliver at this level. He needed to move more, get shots and make shots. He didn't. Meech has never been a three-point threat and couldn't be counted on to be one today. In a word, we were doomed since we were facing a D that demands teams shoot well. I applaud Few & Co for the approach with patient ball movement and passes to Harris and Sacre on the low block. Maybe if Syracuse wasn't clicking on all cylindars that offensive scheme would have been enough to pull the upset. But in the end Syracuse brought it and GU didn't. I don't fault the effort, the gameplan or the environment, but the matchup was a bad one and today we saw why.

• one of the announcers said cuse was playing their best game all season.
• a cbs after-game reprise noted cuse set a school record with all those treys

• special pop quiz for Meech detractors & haters as well as those just fed up, thinking we have no p.g.:

which Zag can be directly credited with 2 of our NCAA wins in the last two seasons ?

A. Meech (WVU and FSU). FSU a shakier claim, but few would disagree FSU tried to foul him and get back in the game at the end. Instead of folding, he shot 5-6 with a bum shoulder, too.

cjm720
03-22-2010, 09:48 AM
Mark Few said it best when he said to beat Syracuse the Zags would have to make shots. We didn't. It really was that simple.

Matt: Shot 3-13 overall. 0-6 from beyond the 3 pt line. 2-2 from the line.
Gray: Shot 3-11 overall. 3-9 from beyond the 3 pt line. 0-0 from the line.
Meech shot 05 overall, and 0-2 beyond the 3 pt line. And 0-0 from the line.

For Syracuse Johnson scored 31 and shot 11-16 overall and 4-6 from beyond the 3 pt line. Routins scored 24 and shot 7-13 overall and 5-9 from beyond the 3 pt line. And Trish scored 13 (all in the first half) 2-5 from behind the 3 pt line. That's 13 for 24 (over 50%) from beyond the 3 pt line.

I don't care what anyone says, Meech is really bad on defense. It was, once again so obvious today. We all know his liability with the ball in his hands. Can't shoot, can't pass (maybe he doesn't turn the ball over, but has he had an assist all year? He can't hit cutters, he can't hit guys going back door.

And Matt had to have a great game. He didn't. Not even close. Syracuse, for whatever reason stepped up. Even without their center. Johnson came out on fire, and Matt came out shooting duds.

To win against great teams you have to be great. This is not a great Gonzaga team. To win in this tournament you MUST be able to shoot behind the 3 pt line. This Gonzaga team was a HORRIBLE 3 pt shooting team today, and for a lot of the year. Matt had a great shooting year up to the loss against LMU. Since then Matt has NOT been a factor accept against Florida State. I am anxious to find out if he has been hurt. This was the same Zags team that lost to St Mary's by 20. The Zags were not good at the end of the year.

Your premise is simple, your post is convulted crap.

Reborn
03-22-2010, 10:37 AM
Your premise is simple, your post is convulted crap.

AT least I shared what I thought, cjm720. It's pretty easy to say, your post is convulted (too bad you can't even spell the word? Or is there actually a word convulted?). It's much more difficult to share the brilliance of your basketball mind with us. I would be so anxious to hear what you actually have to share, in terms of an analysis.

Crazy
03-22-2010, 11:19 AM
Sorry JohnnyBonzaga: But we would not have lost if we had hit a ton of shots. Our frontcourt players had great games. Great. We lost BECAUSE we shot poorly. POORLY. Let the Zags shot llights out like Syracuse did and have them just shoot half as good as they did, we win.


Sure if you hit all of your shots and the opponent none you win, sure we had an off shooting nigth and also sure that cuse hit their shots well - but even if we make it "normal" Cuse got the better oppurtunitys work better on the defensiv boards and earned the win. The only thing i would agree, that normally the Zags don't loose with that high margin.

Hoopaholic
03-22-2010, 12:08 PM
simple when you team studs dont step up and make more positive plays than negative plays you are going to lose 99% of the time

You CANNOT go 10 minutes with only 5 scoring opportunities, multiple turnovers, multiple fouls and expect to be in a game with one of the best teams in the nation

We went 9;53 to end of first half with only 5 scoring plays out of 20 possessions....harris on layup assist to gray
Gray on 3 point shot assist to Goodson
Harris 2 free throws
Sacre 2 pointer assist to gray
Olynyk on tip in to end half

Meanwhile we saw during the same time period Syracuse scoring on 8 of 15 possessions going 8 for 12 in shooting during that time period (3 for 5 in 3 point shooting)

After review again of the tape, I found our empty possessions disappointing in the lack of ALL starters:

Harris TURNOVER
Kong Missed 2
Foul on Kong
Foul on Sacre
Gray Missed shot
Gray missed 3 pointer
Foul on Harris
Bouldin missed 3
Turnover
Harris layup
Harris Missed 3 point shot
Gray made 3 point shot
Foul on Gray
Goodson missed 3 pont shot
Harris Turnover
Gray turnover
Sacre made jumper
sacre missed free throw
foul on gray
goodson miss shot
Oly put back bucket


5 negative by Harris and Gray during this time period
Bouldin mysteriously absent from any type of positive or negative action

22 to 21 Syracuse at the 9;53 mark
47-32 Syracuse at end of half....GAME OVER

cjm720
03-22-2010, 12:26 PM
AT least I shared what I thought, cjm720. It's pretty easy to say, your post is convulted (too bad you can't even spell the word? Or is there actually a word convulted?). It's much more difficult to share the brilliance of your basketball mind with us. I would be so anxious to hear what you actually have to share, in terms of an analysis.

Wow, it's rough day when Reborn calls you out on spelling.

I agree with the beginning of your post. 'Cuses 3s and our lack of 3s were the difference in the game. Period. Simple. Then you go on to spill the drivel about Meech being bad on defense. LOL. That's crap. Your sell Bouldin out. That's crap.

We didn't play our best against arguably the best. Now that's a simple argument.

Reborn
03-22-2010, 03:12 PM
Thanks cjm720. My argument about Meech being a poor defender is not drivel, it's fact. If you go back through the games this year and look at them, which I have done, you will see Meech getting bumped off of picks time and time again, or going behind them which is as bad, and his man hitting outside jump shots. I can guarentee you that when it came to Meech guarding great guards, he was not that effective. I'm talking about him guarding great shooting guards.

I wish I could say something different about Matt and his playing the last month of the year. He had a POOR game in the LMU loss, a poor game in the loss in the championship game to St. Mary's, and a poor game against Syracuse. I'm not selling Matt out. I'm just stating a fact. He did not play as well as Johnson. And not even close to it.

I don't buy Few's selling point that the difference in the game was that their shots fell in and ours didn't. That answer is too simplistic, and it does not get at the deeper problems. It is a fact, but why did they (Syracuse) shoot better? If the difference between winning and losing is whether a team is having a hot night or a cold night than why would there be a need for a coach, or even a game. If a team is off, why shouldn't they just QUIT (and it appears to me that some teams do). If the difference between an Elite player and one who is average is only because one guy had more hot nights than the other, then why play games.