PDA

View Full Version : Body Language



tinfoilzag
03-15-2010, 02:13 PM
Looking at my DVR and youtube and other highlights, there are some differences in early and late season body language

Harris moves were very cat-like in the early season with kind of a bouncy run where the opposite shoulder would drop on each step. Late season he runs very vertical. No huge rebounds like early season either, where he would just fly to get a board off of a free throw. It's a bit stunning to see the contrast - his legs are either dead or he's hurt
Meech's face is much more relaxed late season. While you can tell he is more comfortable in his role he developed a bad habit of pounding the ball at the top of the key waiting for the bigs to work inside which leads to...
Matt has been frustrated with Meech late in the season. There are 2 or 3 games where you can see Matt holding his hands in surrender while watching Meech pound the ball without moving. Their spacing is terrible late season too. Maybe cause they are both trying to run the point?
The entire season Rob seems to get one foul a game on him that happens while the team is bringing the ball up the court and Rob is trying to establish position on the block. You almost never get to see the action because the camera is on the ball but it appears to be a product of arm fighting.
Gray has a swagger late season that wasn't there early season
The team's screens are not crisp. It looks like it is both the screener and screenies (sp?) fault. There was much more attention to that detail earlier season (see Maui).
In the early season, KO and Meech got in a triple threat position when they received the ball like they might shoot, KO rarely does it late season and Meech not at all.
This probably won't come as a surprise to anyone but the team looked gassed and/or uninspired late season compared to early season

These are highly subjective observations based on having over a week with no Zag basketball.

rawkmandale
03-15-2010, 02:53 PM
Well, given this is a dead few days, why not watch all the games over again 3 more times, then report back!

vandalzag
03-15-2010, 03:12 PM
Great details,
I was glancing at a recorded game from earlier in the season I do not want to read too much into it but I noticed that Sacre was placing 54% of his weight on his right foot while preparing to receive the ball from the referee in order to shoot the front end of a two shot foul while the team was in the bonus after the last media timeout and Gonzaga is leading by more than 5 points but still had 2 timeouts and the possession arrow. Before that it was totally different, closer to 52.5%. Could it be that he is unhappy with that he grew taller than 5'9'" thus crushing his dream to represent Canada in Pairs Ice Dancing in the 2010. Giving him a platform to showcase his rare combination of strength, athletic ability, and cutting edge eye for fashion?
Also I do not want to read too much into this but when certain players go to the bench they are given a water bottle wrapped in a towel. This is done by the team manager using his right hand and placing the bottle/towel combination on the left shoulder. But for other players the bottle is given to the player by itself (can you say condensation) and the towel follows, sometimes just place haphazardly on the players right shoulder. I think the manager is showing his frustration with the defensive rotation and off the ball screening of some players.

skan72
03-15-2010, 03:22 PM
Great details,
I was glancing at a recorded game from earlier in the season I do not want to read too much into it but I noticed that Sacre was placing 54% of his weight on his right foot while preparing to receive the ball from the referee in order to shoot the front end of a two shot foul while the team was in the bonus after the last media timeout and Gonzaga is leading by more than 5 points but still had 2 timeouts and the possession arrow. Before that it was totally different, closer to 52.5%. Could it be that he is unhappy with that he grew taller than 5'9'" thus crushing his dream to represent Canada in Pairs Ice Dancing in the 2010. Giving him a platform to showcase his rare combination of strength, athletic ability, and cutting edge eye for fashion?
Also I do not want to read too much into this but when certain players go to the bench they are given a water bottle wrapped in a towel. This is done by the team manager using his right hand and placing the bottle/towel combination on the left shoulder. But for other players the bottle is given to the player by itself (can you say condensation) and the towel follows, sometimes just place haphazardly on the players right shoulder. I think the manager is showing his frustration with the defensive rotation and off the ball screening of some players.

:lmao:
/end thread now.

FuManShoes
03-15-2010, 03:30 PM
Can't speak to the other guys but I feel Harris has been emasculated/tamed a bit by officials. All the travelling calls and offensive foul calls caused by his quick feet and energetic driving seem to have left him a bit unsure of himself and less willing to mix it up. Now, were some of the calls legit? Perhaps. But I do fear some coach will whisper in an official's ear before the game, "Hey, watch that Harris kid's feet and elbows" and bam, it'll be Duke all over again.

MickMick
03-15-2010, 03:32 PM
Thank God we are finally away from WCC refs.

That goes for St. Marys too.

With a little consistency the players can settle in. I think both teams will play better. I can't really blame them for losses in the WCC because they were horrible enough for both sides to almost create a level playing field. The calls were certainly conditioning the players to play differently than in OOC though.

I am much less concerned about foul trouble now. Certainly the team will get called when they foul, but I am expecting the phantom calls to diminish by at least 50%. The body language might change a little as well ;)

tinfoilzag
03-15-2010, 03:36 PM
Even better detail from you, Vandalzag. I picked up from your post you like sarcasm.

My post wasn't as detailed as yours but it did have some points. You can infer that Elias is hiding an injury, Meech is figuring out his role on the team but not running the offense and it takes Matt out of his game. Gray may finally have his confidence, Rob has a foul that he can avoid in the future.

You could also surmise that we aren't disciplined in executing the offense anymore and that teams don't have to give KO or Meech token coverage because they aren't threatening to shoot.

Great example though, I appreciate you showing me how it's done.

Fonebone
03-15-2010, 03:40 PM
Its easy to mock things Vandlezag, but its probably my least favorite type of response, especially when a person is taking a risk by expressing an unusual or innovative perspective. It really shuts down dialoge. Hopefully you are just trying to be funny rather than just putting down tinfoilzags attempt to learn something from close observation.

I thought tinfoilzag's points were very interesting - some more than others. There are people that get paid large amounts of money reading body language for corporate marketing departments and trial lawyers. You can see a lot on the court reading body language. Its valid to a point, just like any other type of speculation. I don't know if the observation of Harris is accurate or not, but it is interesting.

ZagNative
03-15-2010, 03:45 PM
Genius, Vandalzag!

Ziggy
03-15-2010, 03:48 PM
Interesting observations tinfoil; a picture tells a thousand words. Body language too. Will's "language" has changed also.



If I had the time I'd re-watch a dozen games too!

Ziggy
03-15-2010, 03:52 PM
Great details,
I was glancing at a recorded game from earlier in the season I do not want to read too much into it but I noticed that Sacre was placing 54% of his weight on his right foot while preparing to receive the ball from the referee in order to shoot the front end of a two shot foul while the team was in the bonus after the last media timeout and Gonzaga is leading by more than 5 points but still had 2 timeouts and the possession arrow. Before that it was totally different, closer to 52.5%. Could it be that he is unhappy with that he grew taller than 5'9'" thus crushing his dream to represent Canada in Pairs Ice Dancing in the 2010. Giving him a platform to showcase his rare combination of strength, athletic ability, and cutting edge eye for fashion?
Also I do not want to read too much into this but when certain players go to the bench they are given a water bottle wrapped in a towel. This is done by the team manager using his right hand and placing the bottle/towel combination on the left shoulder. But for other players the bottle is given to the player by itself (can you say condensation) and the towel follows, sometimes just place haphazardly on the players right shoulder. I think the manager is showing his frustration with the defensive rotation and off the ball screening of some players.

VZ the foo is the next door down the hall, emoticons are in the upper right hand corner of your page.

JAGzag
03-15-2010, 04:12 PM
Body language too. Will's "language" has changed also.

Yeah, but big Will's body language is always harsh; except when he's shooting free throws, I don't believe I've ever seen him smile!

Ziggy
03-15-2010, 04:20 PM
Yeah, but big Will's body language is always harsh; except when he's shooting free throws, I don't believe I've ever seen him smile!

JAG- type in" You Tube-Will Foster Makes Free Throws" You'll see the smile.:)

ID ZAGFAN
03-15-2010, 04:21 PM
Yeah, but big Will's body language is always harsh; except when he's shooting free throws, I don't believe I've ever seen him smile!

He has a great smile--it was much in evidence at the banquet--during his "stand up comic routine" and when I spoke to him when I was getting autographs.

After the Senior night game, some Zag coeds were kidding him about
looking like the Geico Cave Man, and he gave the greatest grin when he responded "I'm not sure how I feel about that!"

He may be trying to intimidate during the games!

ID ZAGFAN

siliconzag
03-15-2010, 05:23 PM
Doesn't know what's shakin.

I also admire Tinfoil Zag's post. I thought I noticed some negative body language last year when I was close to the bench in SFO. I saw players not attending to coach and it concerned me greatly.

Body language can be very revealing. I notice that the cameraderie appears to be less. Cameraderie frequently suffers when teams start to lose. And sometimes reduced cameraderie is what leads to losses. One of the statistics that stood out for me in the St. Mary's game was the number of assists. I think there is a pretty good correlation between the number of assists and teamwork. I also believe the biggest difference in this team and teams of the past is our reduced 3 point threat. This keeps defenses honest. Defenses collapse to the paint, and we get hammered, meaning fewer good looks.

Sili

lothar98zag
03-15-2010, 07:44 PM
During the early season GU rarely reacted to any ref call - good or bad. They took what the refs gave them and played on. By the end of the WCC schedule, GU rarely didn't react to a bad ref call. Even Matt (who for the most part kept his opinions to himself all 4 years) couldn't hold back by the time they got Vegas.

Hopefully the break gives them time to reset their heads regarding the refs. And not getting any P10/WCC refs would be good too...