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ZagNative
03-15-2010, 09:56 AM
From the ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings)page on polls.

zagzilla
03-15-2010, 10:11 AM
Does this pass YOUR eye test?

ESPN
#16 Pitt 3 seed
#16 BYU (tie) 7 seed
#18 Gonzaga 8 seed
#19 Wisconsin 4 seed
#20 Maryland 4 seed
#21 Baylor 3 seed
#22 Vandy 4 seed
#23 Texas A&M 5 seed

AP:

#20 Baylor 3 seed
#21 Vandy 4 seed
#22 Gonzaga 8 seed
#23 Texas A&M 6 seed
#24 Richmond 7 seed
#24 Xavier 6 seed

zagporvida
03-15-2010, 10:50 AM
If things like this don't pump up the Zags players then I don't know what will. Once again we got screwed and hopefully we will respond with some fire and make a nice run. GO ZAGS!!!

75Zag
03-15-2010, 11:04 AM
Thanks ZN. You are my hero for bringing actual information to the GU Board world of opinions and guesses.

Polls are a funny thing. Early season success generally equals an early high poll ranking, and once a team is highly ranked in the polls, it takes a lot to drop out and to drop off the poll voters radar screen.

Seems like many of the BCS and Elite teams treat the college regular season similarly to the way that the top NBA teams treat the NBA regular season. The BCS / Elite teams don't sweat the early losses, and then turn on the gas in January when they need it.

The result is that teams that do well early - like GU - often end up the polling season with fairly high rankings, but the NCAA selection committee tends to give more weight to the BCS / Elite teams who didn't even break a sweat in November or December while teams like GU were trying to conquer the world. Not fun or fair, but it appears to be the way that the NCAA "cookie crumbles".

The solution is for GU to go out in the tournament and kick some Azz.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

zag944
03-15-2010, 11:23 AM
love how Notre Dame, who is not ranked in the AP and not even within the "Others Recieving Votes" on the ESPN/USA gets to be a 6.

thanks guys...

Zag79
03-16-2010, 04:16 AM
wow, thanks for making me realize just how bad the ncaa hates us. we are the highest ranked team with easily the worst seed and draw. heres to upsets and a sweet 16 run! :D

NJZag
03-16-2010, 05:40 AM
We're #10 in fan group size on Yahoo! bracket challenge. What else matters, yo? :D


Fans of Syracuse Official Yahoo! group for Syracuse fans. 8778
Fans of Duke Official Yahoo! group for Duke fans. 7226
Fans of Kentucky Official Yahoo! group for Kentucky fans. 6911
Fans of Kansas Official Yahoo! group for Kansas fans. 5044
Fans of Texas Official Yahoo! group for Texas fans. 4039
Fans of Michigan St. Official Yahoo! group for Michigan St. fans. 3949
Fans of Wisconsin Official Yahoo! group for Wisconsin fans. 3500
Fans of Ohio St. Official Yahoo! group for Ohio St. fans. 3487
Fans of Villanova Official Yahoo! group for Villanova fans. 2617
Fans of Gonzaga Official Yahoo! group for Gonzaga fans. 2146

NJZag
03-16-2010, 07:18 AM
AP Poll

RK TEAM RECORD PTS
1 Kansas (65) 32-2 1,625 SEED 1
2 Kentucky 32-2 1,559 SEED 1
3 Duke 29-5 1,427 SEED 1
4 Syracuse 28-4 1,412 SEED 1
5 Ohio State 27-7 1,377 SEED 2
6 West Virginia 27-6 1,365 SEED 2
7 Kansas State 26-7 1,209 SEED 2
8 New Mexico 29-4 1,043 SEED 3
9 Villanova 24-7 961 SEED 2
10 Purdue 27-5 915 SEED 4
11 Butler 28-4 903 SEED 5
12 Temple 29-5 843 SEED 5
13 Michigan State 24-8 836 SEED 5
14 Georgetown 23-10 788 SEED 3
15 Tennessee 25-8 616 SEED 6
16 Wisconsin 23-8 603 SEED 4
17 Brigham Young 29-5 600 SEED 7
18 Pittsburgh 24-8 566 SEED 3
19 Baylor 25-7 550 SEED 3
20 Maryland 23-8 394 SEED 4
21 Vanderbilt 24-8 382 SEED 4
22 Gonzaga 26-6 359 SEED 8
23 Texas A&M 23-9 290 SEED 5
24 Richmond 26-8 141 SEED 7
25 Xavier 24-8 106 SEED 6


So, probably on the basis of losses in a not-highly-regarded conference and a couple of well-noted losses (Duke and SMC in the finals), Zags have the lowest seeding of a ranked team, and are grouped with a bunch of teams that aren't in the top 25 opinion polls of rankings.

8 CALIFORNIA
8 GONZAGA
8 TEXAS
8 UNLV

======================

There's a certain "recency emphasis" that seems to have an impact on seeding decisions, which finds the selection committee looking at player injuries late in the season and probably finds tourney finishes getting weighted more, too. Either the polls had Zags too high, or the committee seeded Zags too low, or there's been a little bit of both happening, with meet-in-the-middle results.

BYU and Richmond, seeded at 7's, deserve a little comparison with Zags:


Gonzaga - RPI raw 0.5949 Rank 37 SOS raw 0.5241 Rank 118
BYU - RPI raw 0.6120 Rank 23 SOS raw 0.5252 Rank 116
Richmond - RPI raw 0.6111 Rank 25 SOS raw 0.5500 Rank 59

NCAA guidelines point to those kind of numbers as being the appropriate standards for seeding. Opinion polls are just that, and reflect a weighting based on teams getting more press coverage as one reaches the lower end of the poll rankings. One can look at our seeding peers, CAL, Texas and UNLV, and see how their RPI rank and SOS rank compare as well. Two are ahead of us; one has a lower RPI rank but a higher SOS.

Cal: RPI 19 SOS 15
TX: RPI 29 SOS 44
UNLV: RPI 47 SOS 92

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/polls/rpi/index1


Seedings, for the most part, seem to track what the RPIs and SOSs might dictate. There was a time ("once upon a time") when we Zag alumni/fans used to bemoan the undue influence of the poll rankings on the selection committee and we believed that the lack of press coverage might hurt us in getting higher seedings. The NCAA went over to a greater emphasis on using objective numbers for seedings, and now we're so well-covered by the press and on the minds of the sports writers who get polled, that there's a different impression about where we've been poll-ranked and where we've been seeded.



1 DUKE, KANSAS, KENTUCKY, SYRACUSE
2 KANSAS STATE, OHIO STATE, VILLANOVA, W. VIRGINIA
3 BAYLOR, GEORGETOWN, NEW MEXICO, PITTSBURGH
4 MARYLAND, PURDUE, VANDERBILT, WISCONSIN
5 BUTLER, MICH. STATE, TEMPLE, TEXAS A&M
6 MARQUETTE, NOTRE DAME, TENNESSEE, XAVIER
7 BYU, CLEMSON, OK. STATE, RICHMOND
8 CALIFORNIA, GONZAGA, TEXAS, UNLV
9 FL. STATE, LOUISVILLE, NORTHERN IOWA, WAKE FOREST
10 FLORIDA, GA. TECH, MISSOURI, S.M.C.
11 MINNESOTA, OLD DOMINION, SAN DIEGO STATE, WASHINGTON
12 CORNELL, NEW MEXICO STATE, UTAH, UTEP
13 HOUSTON, MURRAY STATE, SIENA, WOFFORD
14 MONTANA, OAKLAND, OHIO, SAM HOUSTON STATE
15 MORGAN STATE, NORTH TEXAS, ROBERT MORRIS, UC SANTA BARBARA
16 EAST TENNESSEE, LEHIGH, VERMONT, T.B.A

As far as "locations" ... Terps as a 4-seed are probably as thrilled at a 1st round game in Spokane as the Zags are about a 1st rounder in Buffalo.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/363056-ncaa-bracket-2010-predicting-the-32-first-round-games#page/11

Don't worry ... spring thaw is finally happening out here in the Tundra Zone. :D FSU should be interesting but don't overlook them. As for the Orange, a study of their losses to L'ville and Hoyas will reveal a team that was getting tired and on the wane toward end of their season. Whether they bounce back now is just as much a question on the minds of their fans as Zags ponder whether their early-season team is going to reappear for Madness time. One of their players is day-to-day from injury.

http://syracuse.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=1369&tid=140946639&mid=140946639&sid=937&style=2


http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=185&f=2825&t=5736285


I think everyone is assuming we can survive this weekend without him, and by next weekend when we need him he'll be back. Andy Katz said tonite AO may not play this weekend "but remember north carolina sat lawson last year in the 1st round." Jimmy Dykes said they got a replacement in Rick Jackson they can just slide in at center.

I agree, the media doesnt really seem to think its a big deal, i think gonzaga is gonna give us all we can handle in the 2nd round.

Hold that thought ...

zagfan08
03-16-2010, 08:00 AM
It's been said here all year that polls do not matter for seeding, yet another classic case where a team from a mid-major conference is under-seeded.

ZagLawGrad
03-16-2010, 08:24 AM
Zags didn't help themselves when they finally convinced the bracket makers to give them a high seed not so long ago, and then made an early exit stage right. The decision makers undoubtedly remember those kinds of things.

You gotta take advantage of opportunities, i.e. do what it takes to perhaps be playing in Spokane this weekend instead of Buffalo.

I really like this year's team, but they are a mystery of sorts. What Zags team will we see on the court Friday?---I have no idea. But rankings and all are out the window. It's all about chopping wood now.

MDABE80
03-16-2010, 08:47 AM
We're in a terribly weak league. And it's not a respected league compared to others in the D1 loop. When another team in a BCS league wins a game, it's a big deal. GU wins in the WCC, not so much. We lose and it's a HUGE loss....something that needs to be explained.....and it's a very BAD loss. We had three of those this year coming in the latter parts of the season...including the very last impression the committee had....and it's one we had ourselves. What began as a big surprise, fizzled for many unclear reasons.

And what LawGrad says is true. It's time to perform. We think we got underseeded? Prove it on the court. None of the complaining matters now. We win games or we don't win games. There's never been a serious question about bias in favor of the big schools...and against the smaller schools. It's been going on for decades. No reason to discuss it. It's woven into the fabric of the NCAA.

We win by performing at a high level. We win by winning. It's what happened in 99. We advanced because we won....not pretty wins but we won. We didn't become a story because we lost. We came a tradition because we won in all the multiple seasons following that. It's just that simple. Committees always get it wrong at several levels. Our job is to perform at this latest part of the season.

77Zag
03-16-2010, 08:53 AM
Does this pass YOUR eye test?

ESPN
#16 Pitt 3 seed
#16 BYU (tie) 7 seed
#18 Gonzaga 8 seed
#19 Wisconsin 4 seed
#20 Maryland 4 seed
#21 Baylor 3 seed
#22 Vandy 4 seed
#23 Texas A&M 5 seed

AP:

#20 Baylor 3 seed
#21 Vandy 4 seed
#22 Gonzaga 8 seed
#23 Texas A&M 6 seed
#24 Richmond 7 seed
#24 Xavier 6 seed

It stinks -- like Bobby Knight said, the committee can't judge basketball teams, it's all emotion and history. How can any team rated by the coaches and press that is in the top 25 get less than a 6 seed MAYBE a 7 seed? Can someone explain that to me?

Very puzzling