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View Full Version : Zags bumped down to an 8?



Angelo Roncalli
03-15-2010, 08:23 AM
Looks like that's what happened.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/collegesports/2011347192_gonzaga15.html

FrahmfortheWin
03-15-2010, 08:32 AM
good link, I thought it was well written and makes several good points.

Listening to some of the interviews from the committee I get the impression they attached a lot of weight to losses in conference tournaments. The Saint Marys game unfortunately put us behind the 8 ball.

BobZag
03-15-2010, 08:42 AM
You make your bed, you lie in it.

Win the games you're supposed to win and this doesn't happen.

Go Zags!

FuManShoes
03-15-2010, 08:52 AM
Listening to some of the interviews from the committee I get the impression they attached a lot of weight to losses in conference tournaments.

Unless you're Syracuse

theman.themyth.thelegend
03-15-2010, 08:59 AM
Win the games you're supposed to win and this doesn't happen.

Go Zags!

Yep. I think the losses @LMU and @USF was the difference of at least 2 or 3 spots, imo.

A 14-0 conference record in the WCC looks much different than a 12-2 conference record, especially when both of those inexplicable losses were vs 200+ RPI teams. Without those 'hiccups' in conference, we're easily a 5 seed--or better this year.

flutieflakes
03-15-2010, 09:11 AM
I still feel it's a case of selective memory.

If your gonna kill the Zags for a few bad losses, you should do it to the other teams as well.

Marquette: lost to Depaul and NC State
Notre Dame: lost to Northwestern, Rutgers, Cincy, St Johns, and LMU
Vanderbilt: lost to Cincy, Western Kentucky, and Illinois.
Maryland: lost to William & Mary, Cincy, Wisconsin

Each of these teams, as well as others, were ranked above the Zags, and have losses that were just as bad as some of the Zags losses. They also lost to teams that we beat during the year. I wouldn't say that any of these teams are clearly better than Gonzaga.

Birddog
03-15-2010, 09:17 AM
Without those 'hiccups' in conference, we're easily a 5 seed--or better this year
Hiccups my arse, those were http://www.createfarts.com/crbr_aa12_send.htm in Church

Ziggy
03-15-2010, 09:24 AM
Hiccups my arse, those were http://www.createfarts.com/crbr_aa12_send.htm in Church

"He who farts in church, sits in his own pew" Old Adage ;) (I'm a PK!)

Houston Zag
03-15-2010, 09:26 AM
I can't say I'm happy with an 8 seed, but when you look at the other 8-9 I'd say it is a fair place. Texas, Wake Forest, UNLV, UNI, Cal, Louisville. I'd say that we are comproable to those teams given that we lost a scrimage to texas and lost head to head to wake.

zagzilla
03-15-2010, 09:39 AM
I get that we paid a price for losing to SMC in the conf tourney final but obviously we were never realistically in line for a 4 or 5 in Spokane

ronh_pm
03-15-2010, 09:48 AM
I get that we paid a price for losing to SMC in the conf tourney final but obviously we were never realistically in line for a 4 or 5 in Spokane

I would guess the 4 went out the window with the loss to SF, the 5 with the loss to LMU and the 6 with SMC and the 8 being a result of in conference scheduling matchups the committee had to deal with.

zagzilla
03-15-2010, 09:58 AM
I would guess the 4 went out the window with the loss to SF, the 5 with the loss to LMU and the 6 with SMC and the 8 being a result of in conference scheduling matchups the committee had to deal with.

You're probably right but it just goes to show how little margin for error there is with WCC affiliation. Regular season title but a loss in tourney final to a Top 30 rival you beat 2 times earlier in the year costs us 2 full seed lines?!

The real kicker was the extra drop to the 8 for conference matchup purposes that protected BCS teams who should have gotten our 8.

In effect, we got punished twice for the same loss.

ZaginLaw
03-15-2010, 10:07 AM
Look at the final score of the WCC finals. It's not like we were in it until the final 0.1 sec (Miss. St.). SMC got hot, we collapsed.

Lots of lessons learned this year we can use against FSU.

gu03alum
03-15-2010, 10:46 AM
Look at the final score of the WCC finals. It's not like we were in it until the final 0.1 sec (Miss. St.). SMC got hot, we collapsed.

Lots of lessons learned this year we can use against FSU.

I'm not sure that point differential is factored into the brackets.

It was one loss out of three against a high rpi opponent after GU had just lost Manny Arop. I really don't think it was fair at all to penalize GU so much for that.

MJ777
03-15-2010, 10:50 AM
I'm not sure that point differential is factored into the brackets.

It was one loss out of three against a high rpi opponent after GU had just lost Manny Arop. I really don't think it was fair at all to penalize GU so much for that.

Does anyone think the loss of Arop cost the Zags a seed spot? He was a part of the machine prior to his injury. Purdue should have been dropped to a six based upon the injury to Hummel IMHO.

matty1090
03-15-2010, 11:27 AM
remember, we took arizona to the wire in '03, and arizona was the number 1 seed. I remember alot of people having written off that zag team by tournament time, seeing we didnt win the wcc tourney and were praying for a spot in the big dance. syracuse is beatable, we just have to play with the same fire that the '03 team did in the tournament.

MDABE80
03-15-2010, 11:38 AM
We did this to ourselves.
Now is the time for the Champions to ascend...to fight back....this is our time guys!
Our destiny is still in our hands. FSU plays the defense we wish we could...and we can! Just a matter of understanding it and go forward like there's no tomorrow....because there isn't one if we lose. Time for this team to toughen like the OOC play. Make em sweat blood on every possession.

We have the scorers to win by 20....it's not luck either. Just go win this one and plan on Syracuse.....underdogs we are. Nothing new. We have the talent. Time to deliver....the questions is: DO we want it more than FSU...

JosephZags
03-15-2010, 11:43 AM
I still feel it's a case of selective memory.

If your gonna kill the Zags for a few bad losses, you should do it to the other teams as well.

Marquette: lost to Depaul and NC State
Notre Dame: lost to Northwestern, Rutgers, Cincy, St Johns, and LMU
Vanderbilt: lost to Cincy, Western Kentucky, and Illinois.
Maryland: lost to William & Mary, Cincy, Wisconsin

Each of these teams, as well as others, were ranked above the Zags, and have losses that were just as bad as some of the Zags losses. They also lost to teams that we beat during the year. I wouldn't say that any of these teams are clearly better than Gonzaga.

Not sure how these losses can be equated to LMU and USF.

cbbfanatic
03-15-2010, 11:51 AM
I still feel it's a case of selective memory.

If your gonna kill the Zags for a few bad losses, you should do it to the other teams as well.

Marquette: lost to Depaul and NC State
Notre Dame: lost to Northwestern, Rutgers, Cincy, St Johns, and LMU
Vanderbilt: lost to Cincy, Western Kentucky, and Illinois.
Maryland: lost to William & Mary, Cincy, Wisconsin

Each of these teams, as well as others, were ranked above the Zags, and have losses that were just as bad as some of the Zags losses. They also lost to teams that we beat during the year. I wouldn't say that any of these teams are clearly better than Gonzaga.

you need to put some focus on WINS too. i mean, isnt WINNING the goal of the game. look at the teams that those teams BEAT. focusing primarily on losses doesnt do it for me.

surfmonkey89
03-15-2010, 11:53 AM
This post should be bookmarked and brought out next January, when there is a question as to how to motivate the team as they enter conference play.

On the Decade of Excellence DVD Casey said their motivation for winning the conference tournament was that they didn't want to put the decision into the hands of the committee. Ten years later and nothing has changed.

Win the conference tourney, go to Spokane or San Jose. Lose - Buffalo, because apparently the Nova Scotia pod wasn't available.

Win the conference. Win the conference tourney. It's a must, every year.

bartruff1
03-15-2010, 12:01 PM
All this whining reminds me of a 5 year old's constant lament...." thats not fair "......

dim4sum
03-15-2010, 12:03 PM
Louisville beat Syracuse twice this year, i n league and in the tournament, and we're at least as good as Louisville. We sneak by these two and we get a good chance for a big surrogate cheering section in Salt Lake. My rose colored glasses are telling me great things.

MDABE80
03-15-2010, 12:18 PM
The only biaaaaaaaatch we have is the place we play and the distance to get there. We can win and we should win. Then..Cuse and we're back out West.

We might be gotten a good screwin but it's irrelevant now. Time to man up and go win some games. Remember?..anytime, anyone, anywhere? Performance is all that counts...everything else is a distraction from the challenge at hand. We win, we move on. We retire, we end the season wondering why this mess happened. Go Zags!!!

siliconzag
03-15-2010, 12:50 PM
Louisville beat Syracuse twice this year, i n league and in the tournament, and we're at least as good as Louisville. We sneak by these two and we get a good chance for a big surrogate cheering section in Salt Lake. My rose colored glasses are telling me great things.

Suspect the fans in SLC might be rooting for BYU. In fact Wall Street Journal picks BYU in the western regional. It is a distinct possibility. Zags tend to do pretty well in SLC, but while I would rather play Syracuse than Kansas or repeat against the Blue Devils, I think we won't be headed back there soon.

Sili

BJZags
03-15-2010, 12:59 PM
Apparently the selection committee read a draft of this article:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35867564/ns/sports-college_basketball/

Can't say I disagree with the assessment all that much based upon how we handled certain "big games" and the later stages of the season. Time to do our talking with our play, and get back to the same team that bonded in Maui.

titopoet
03-15-2010, 01:28 PM
Win the games you're supposed to win and this doesn't happen.

Go Zags!

I find this interesting. The truth is the NCAA is there to defend the BCS conferences. It not like they go out of their way to hurt GU, but will go out of their way to protect the BCS. Notre Dame did not earn a 6 seed. It was also interesting to see UTEP paired off with Butler, they pick each other off and only have to worry about one. DUKE gets the easiest bracket. If GU would have won two or three of the bad losses, I think they would still be shafted.

The Zags know it and there is nothing to do about but go play the games. Lets us hope the teams in Buffalo read these posts and overlook GU.

bartruff1
03-15-2010, 02:21 PM
This is great stuff...if we are lucky enough to win the FSU game (hey, it could happen) we will get to play one of the best (some say the best) teams in the country...I think it is a great reward for the team and the fans...

cbbfanatic
03-15-2010, 02:28 PM
I find this interesting. The truth is the NCAA is there to defend the BCS conferences. It not like they go out of their way to hurt GU, but will go out of their way to protect the BCS. Notre Dame did not earn a 6 seed. It was also interesting to see UTEP paired off with Butler, they pick each other off and only have to worry about one. DUKE gets the easiest bracket. If GU would have won two or three of the bad losses, I think they would still be shafted.

The Zags know it and there is nothing to do about but go play the games. Lets us hope the teams in Buffalo read these posts and overlook GU.

i think you're very wrong about this, and i sense a mid major inferiority complex hidden (not so well) in your statement.

first off, pitting mid majors against each other does more to ensure their success than hinder it - stats bear it out. making mids play highs in first round 8/9s, 7/10s, 6/11s, and 5/12s has been historically, much kinder to the big boys. also, there were TEN mid major at large teams put in the dance this year... thats roughly a third of at large bids. that is a huge number. mid majors, for the most part, get a very fair shake these days (though i'd be pissed if i was temple)

second, its easy for you to say ND doesnt deserve a 6, but can you provide something to back it up? maybe they do, maybe they dont, but to just spit stuff out like that with nothing behind it is pretty weak. theyve beaten some pretty good teams this year, including:
wvu (2 seed)
gtown (3 seed)
pitt TWICE (3 seed)
marquette (6 seed).

of course you can say they have too many losses for your tastes, but in a conference like this years big east, you are going to lose some games, unless you are a top 1-3 seed type team. some of you guys appear too obsessed with total # of losses. you gotta look at who these guys play, and more importantly BEAT.

MJ777
03-15-2010, 02:58 PM
Apparently the selection committee read a draft of this article:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35867564/ns/sports-college_basketball/

Can't say I disagree with the assessment all that much based upon how we handled certain "big games" and the later stages of the season. Time to do our talking with our play, and get back to the same team that bonded in Maui.

Overrated as an 8? I usually take anything affiliated with msnbc with a grain of salt so GO ZAGS!! :)

OZZY
03-15-2010, 03:42 PM
I wonder if the Zags had went undefeated this year what seed they would have got. The best team they played was Duke and then Michigan State, and Wisconsin. Would they get a 1 seed I think not.......

cbbfanatic
03-15-2010, 06:11 PM
I wonder if the Zags had went undefeated this year what seed they would have got. The best team they played was Duke and then Michigan State, and Wisconsin. Would they get a 1 seed I think not.......

Undefeated zags would absolutely have been a 1. St joes a few yrs back was a 1 w one loss and their best win was over gonzaga, second best over a strong bubble, yet nit bound villanova. And that was probably a stronger field overall. This victim stuff (if I interpreted that correctly) is really getting old. I hope the team and staff don't share these sentiments

deathchina
03-15-2010, 06:24 PM
I agree with CBB. Here's the thing. 8 might be a bit low, but if it's low maybe only by one seed. We beat wisconsin and Saint Mary's and no one else who's in the NCAA tournament. 3-4 against top 50 type teams. Some bad losses the last couple months of the season, and a newly injured 6th man. It's not the strongest resume out there. Compare us to ND, the team you say is overrated as a 6th seed. 6-4 against top 50 teams. Yes, they lost to Loyola Marymount, but so did we. And their Rutgers loss isn't as bad as our San Fran loss.

So how is Notre Dame overseeded at 6 and we are underseeded at 8?


". It was also interesting to see UTEP paired off with Butler, they pick each other off and only have to worry about one."



Then again, doesn't that guarantee one of them advancing to the next round?

willandi
03-15-2010, 07:04 PM
I expect us to beat FSU, and I believe that we can beat Syracuse. I think they are the most vulnerable of the #1 seeds.

That being said (here comes the dead horse), I think the committee should have to explain the motivation and rational behind each pick. Once they are finished, they aren't doing much else. There are people that are making a living out of bracketology, and I have trouble believing that 10 AD's and administrative types can do a better job. Perhaps they don't need to provide the rationale, but the should provide the rules and logic. This would help all the teams that feel they were underseeded, or failed to make the field, and yes, I know that if the Zags had handled their end they would have been higher, but was it the losses in conference, the blow out to Duke, the defeat by Wake? Which one tipped the balance? It would be nice to know just as knowledge.

All that being said, Lets go on to SLC!!! Go Zags!!!

bartruff1
03-15-2010, 07:33 PM
Undefeated zags would absolutely have been a 1. St joes a few yrs back was a 1 w one loss and their best win was over gonzaga, second best over a strong bubble, yet nit bound villanova. And that was probably a stronger field overall. This victim stuff (if I interpreted that correctly) is really getting old. I hope the team and staff don't share these sentiments I couldn't agree more...as if the "committee" has it in for....lets see...Spokane....Mid Majors......WCC.....and of course Gonzaga.....I do not understand the victim mentality...just perhaps they did the best they could to be fair with the time and the information they had.. we are in perhaps the biggest sporting event in America ...enjoy it..

cbbfanatic
03-15-2010, 07:52 PM
i dont think the committee owes us a thing in the way of a rationalization.

that would be a ridiculous can of worms.

everyone involved knows the deal, knows what the committee can and might do.

lothar98zag
03-15-2010, 07:54 PM
Undefeated zags would absolutely have been a 1. St joes a few yrs back was a 1 w one loss and their best win was over gonzaga, second best over a strong bubble, yet nit bound villanova. And that was probably a stronger field overall. This victim stuff (if I interpreted that correctly) is really getting old. I hope the team and staff don't share these sentiments
So why do keep coming back?

FuManShoes
03-15-2010, 08:01 PM
Overrated as an 8? I usually take anything affiliated with msnbc with a grain of salt so GO ZAGS!! :)

Agreed. He could really only call the Zags "overrated" had they gotten a protected seed. At an 8 he should be saying, "see, they got what they deserve."

and cut msnbc.com some slack!

Rbo
03-15-2010, 08:07 PM
It's time to let the seeding rest and kick some Eastern-bias boo-tay!

Kiddwell
03-15-2010, 10:24 PM
"He who farts in church, sits in his own pew" Old Adage ;) (I'm a PK!)

LOL (and a half). Now that's Kiddwell's kind of humor, Ziggy: goofy, silly! :p

:]