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OZZY
03-11-2010, 02:39 PM
After reading the various posts regarding the last 3-4 weeks I am becoming a little depressed about Kelly's percieved role in the team. We now have some posters telling us that next year Sam will take over the role that KO has played this year, many have commented on Kelly's lack of strength and speed.

I have not had the fortune of watching most of the games in TV, and could only dream of actually attending a game sometime in the future, so I must contend myself with reading boxscores, posts and articles about the team. Once and awhile I get a glimpse on Justin.....

When I look at KO's stats in the last game, I see an efficient player who in 11 minutes on the floor went 3/4 scoring 7 points, he collected 3 rebounds and had a block in that time. Elias who played 33 minutes, went 3/13, had only one more point, no blocks and 2 turnovers, and yet many posters question why he is even on the floor....

On paper he looks to be a valuable asset to the team KO's assist to turnover ratio is 1.33, he has as many steals as he has turnovers and we are told that he is an "energy player".

So what gives? do you think that KO is contributing, or hampering this team??????
:(

alaskazagnut
03-11-2010, 02:49 PM
We now have some posters telling us that next year Sam will take over the role that KO has played this year, many have commented on Kelly's lack of strength and speed.

SImply because KO will probably be fighting for a starting position. Someone has to take over and fill in Kellys 6th man role. Might as well have Sammy in the conversation.

thickman1
03-11-2010, 02:50 PM
Kelly is really going to be a load next year. He looks like he's put on 20 lbs during the course of this season. The guys calves look like tree trunks! I see him being an inside outside player next year giving a change of pace from Sacre. He will probably be a starter with Sam providing spark off the bench.


Meech
Gray
Harris
Olynk
Sacre

Arop 6th man

alaskazagnut
03-11-2010, 03:06 PM
He will probably be a starter with Sam providing spark off the bench.


Meech
Gray
Harris
Olynk
Sacre

Arop 6th man

As it is now Meech has earned and deserves the starting role. But if Meech can't improve his FT%, shooting % and TO/Ast ratio, I would bet that GJ makes a legitimate push for his spot. I want what is best for everyone, but if Meech doesn't improve in all areas next year GJ deserves to get a shot to start. Meech is lightning quick at bringing the ball upcourt. This gives our offense the immediate upper hand and his defensive pressure is valuable. But his offense is a liability. Objectively, regardless of emotions or the seniority of any particular player, the best 5 need to start.

Hence I can easily see:

Vilarino
Gray
Harris
Sacre
Olynyk

BobZag
03-11-2010, 03:14 PM
After reading the various posts regarding the last 3-4 weeks I am becoming a little depressed about Kelly's percieved role in the team. We now have some posters telling us that next year Sam will take over the role that KO has played this year, many have commented on Kelly's lack of strength and speed.

I have not had the fortune of watching most of the games in TV, and could only dream of actually attending a game sometime in the future, so I must contend myself with reading boxscores, posts and articles about the team. Once and awhile I get a glimpse on Justin.....

When I look at KO's stats in the last game, I see an efficient player who in 11 minutes on the floor went 3/4 scoring 7 points, he collected 3 rebounds and had a block in that time. Elias who played 33 minutes, went 3/13, had only one more point, no blocks and 2 turnovers, and yet many posters question why he is even on the floor....

On paper he looks to be a valuable asset to the team KO's assist to turnover ratio is 1.33, he has as many steals as he has turnovers and we are told that he is an "energy player".

So what gives? do you think that KO is contributing, or hampering this team??????
:(

The Boston Celtics' GM loves Kelly's game.

Don't worry, Ozzy. The unknown is many times more attractive to folks than the known. Ever notice how a lot of backup quarterbacks are the most popular players, according to fans? They love the unknown. Human nature, I suppose.

Kelly is good and will only get better.

U Zig, I Zag
03-11-2010, 03:16 PM
I agree on the Meech/GJ assement. I have a feeling that GJ is gone though... don't know why, just do.

No backup PG at that point? GG? He seems more of a 2 to me... he might have trouble with quicker PGs

cjm720
03-11-2010, 03:51 PM
After reading the various posts regarding the last 3-4 weeks I am becoming a little depressed about Kelly's percieved role in the team. We now have some posters telling us that next year Sam will take over the role that KO has played this year, many have commented on Kelly's lack of strength and speed.

I have not had the fortune of watching most of the games in TV, and could only dream of actually attending a game sometime in the future, so I must contend myself with reading boxscores, posts and articles about the team. Once and awhile I get a glimpse on Justin.....

When I look at KO's stats in the last game, I see an efficient player who in 11 minutes on the floor went 3/4 scoring 7 points, he collected 3 rebounds and had a block in that time. Elias who played 33 minutes, went 3/13, had only one more point, no blocks and 2 turnovers, and yet many posters question why he is even on the floor....

On paper he looks to be a valuable asset to the team KO's assist to turnover ratio is 1.33, he has as many steals as he has turnovers and we are told that he is an "energy player".

So what gives? do you think that KO is contributing, or hampering this team??????
:(

KO is the man. I've said it before, but he will be the focal point of this offense in two years (not necessarily the leading scorer, but things will run through him in the half court set). He's an extremely smart player, understands the game from a guards perspective, still growing, has a good shot, coaches son...no need to be depressed as a third of the people on this board thinks half the team sucks and the coach should be fired.

BlueVoodoo07
03-11-2010, 03:55 PM
After this year I say Kelly will have the highest basketball IQ on the team. Being a coaches son helps you on that.

krozman
03-11-2010, 04:05 PM
I'm on record saying that KO could be GU's next AMMO. I'm probably wrong, but I see him getting serious minutes. Starter? Anything can happen. Ask Arop how he perceived his role this time of year.

john montana
03-11-2010, 04:16 PM
KO is the man. I've said it before, but he will be the focal point of this offense in two years (not necessarily the leading scorer, but things will run through him in the half court set). He's an extremely smart player, understands the game from a guards perspective, still growing, has a good shot, coaches son...no need to be depressed as a third of the people on this board thinks half the team sucks and the coach should be fired.

+1. Pretty much exactly how I feel about KO. Watching him, I think he sees the floor nearly as well as Bouldin, he just needs some time to develop. 2 years from now he could be a real problem for the WCC.

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-11-2010, 05:00 PM
I think KO is still a full year away from being a really good player, but I can easily see him maturing into an WCC player or even conference player of the year by his junior year. 6'11" wings who can dribble, shoot, and pass are extremely rare. If he puts on enough strength to become a true low post threat, he could easily evolve into the best inside-outside threat in school history. Overall, I think this kid has the highest upside of any Gonzaga freshmen since AMMO.

This team could be frighteningly good in a couple of years, if Dower, Kong, Arop, and KO all reach the potential we see in them.

skan72
03-11-2010, 06:42 PM
Isn't he the same guy who gave millions of dollars to Brian Scalabrine because he thought he had a lot of the same qualities as Larry Bird? Let's not get carried away by proclaiming him to be the future focal point of the offense or seeing the floor nearly as well as one of the program's most basketball savvy players ever.

Olynyk is receiving the same amount of hype that we saw Pendo get, which isn't a bad thing because it is a reflection on their toughness and effort. Pendo just wasn't as skilled in passing, shooting, or post moves as many people were hoping. Olynyk isn't a shot blocker at all, and that affects his ability to play in the post. Olynyk doesn't have great post footwork, but he has improved over the course of the season. Olynyk isn't a dead eye shooter from long range, especially when compared to Daye or Heytvelt. Olynyk doesn't pass as well as point guards, although he certainly is well above average for a post player. And Olynyk isn't fast enough on the perimeter to really guard 3s.

His future is all about developing his post game, especially in the high post, gaining strength, and continuing to hone his shooting. If he has even the slightest hope of making it to the next level, he'll need to dramatically improve his shot blocking. There's a night and day difference with penetration when Olynyk replaces Sacre. Same goes for rebounding margin.

I don't take anybody seriously who really believes Olynyk's future is on the perimeter. Reminds me of that talented 7-5 Russian dude from a few years back who claimed to be a point guard. Only rare players like Magic Johnson, Grant Hill, and LeBron James have enough handles at heights over 6'7 to be effective on the perimeter. Olynyk isn't in their class, and won't make it as a 3. He's absolutely a high-post power forward going forward, or he'll end up never sniffing the NBA.

Dirk Nowitzki anyone?

john montana
03-11-2010, 06:51 PM
I know you are really into stats mal, hence your slight dislike of ko. I see him more as a hybrid 3/4 playing to take advantage of matchups. Will he be a low post banger? No. Will he adequately defend a post, I think so. Will he cause havoc when a big 4 man has to come out to play him? Yep. He is savvy, tough, shoots the ball well enough already to be a credible threat and yes, he sees the floor as well as most point guards (and certainly better than our point guard). Did he put up gaudy stats as a severely undersized freshman? Nope. But I can see the potential just oozing out of the kid.

As to seeing the floor. I would bet money that our coaches think the best passers on the team are bouldin (clearly the best), Gibbs and ko. Those three strike me as natural passers with great vision. I love the idea of ko manning the high post and having the offense funnelled through him his junior year with bi rob down low.

2wiceright
03-11-2010, 07:13 PM
I know you are really into stats mal, hence your slight dislike of ko. I see him more as a hybrid 3/4 playing to take advantage of matchups. Will he be a low post banger? No. Will he adequately defend a post, I think so. Will he cause havoc when a big 4 man has to come out to play him? Yep. He is savvy, tough, shoots the ball well enough already to be a credible threat and yes, he sees the floor as well as most point guards (and certainly better than our point guard). Did he put up gaudy stats as a severely undersized freshman? Nope. But I can see the potential just oozing out of the kid.

As to seeing the floor. I would bet money that our coaches think the best passers on the team are bouldin (clearly the best), Gibbs and ko. Those three strike me as natural passers with great vision. I love the idea of ko manning the high post and having the offense funnelled through him his junior year with bi rob down low.

Well though out and agree 100 percent. He may even be ahead of schedule by next year IMHO!

MickMick
03-11-2010, 07:23 PM
Most people have it right. Point Guard is the real concern. Zags will be very, very strong at the 3,4,5 positions.

KO is going to be really, really good. So will Arop and Harris. If all are around for four years, they will probably be labeled "the big 3" similar to Bouldin, Gray Harris now.

Definitely the foundation of the team. KO will be a big, big part of it.

ZagsGoZags
03-11-2010, 07:36 PM
OK - strong at the 3,4 positions - YES
and considering that a lot of teams don't even have a 5, I guess I would say we are good-to-strong at the 5

but steven gray at the 2 is strong !!!

I think next year we are strong at the 2,3,4 and hope to do well at the 1 and 5

MickMick
03-11-2010, 08:13 PM
OK - strong at the 3,4 positions - YES
and considering that a lot of teams don't even have a 5, I guess I would say we are good-to-strong at the 5

but steven gray at the 2 is strong !!!

I think next year we are strong at the 2,3,4 and hope to do well at the 1 and 5

No doubt Steven will be the man next year. I was looking 3 - 4 years from now when the freshmen are juniors/seniors. They will be as good of a nucleus as the Zags have ever had.


Mal....remember that we are passing judgement on freshmen now. Remember Ravio and Pargo as freshmen? Remember Samhan as a freshman?

No question that KO is going to be really, really good. We will know for sure by the end of his sophmore year.

Heck, I'm still holding out hope that Meech will show significant improvement. I think we will likely get more of the same though. An "improved" more of the same.

gamagin
03-11-2010, 08:57 PM
Isn't he the same guy who gave millions of dollars to Brian Scalabrine because he thought he had a lot of the same qualities as Larry Bird? Let's not get carried away by proclaiming him to be the future focal point of the offense or seeing the floor nearly as well as one of the program's most basketball savvy players ever.

Olynyk is receiving the same amount of hype that we saw Pendo get, which isn't a bad thing because it is a reflection on their toughness and effort. Pendo just wasn't as skilled in passing, shooting, or post moves as many people were hoping. Olynyk isn't a shot blocker at all, and that affects his ability to play in the post. Olynyk doesn't have great post footwork, but he has improved over the course of the season. Olynyk isn't a dead eye shooter from long range, especially when compared to Daye or Heytvelt. Olynyk doesn't pass as well as point guards, although he certainly is well above average for a post player. And Olynyk isn't fast enough on the perimeter to really guard 3s.

His future is all about developing his post game, especially in the high post, gaining strength, and continuing to hone his shooting. If he has even the slightest hope of making it to the next level, he'll need to dramatically improve his shot blocking. There's a night and day difference with penetration when Olynyk replaces Sacre. Same goes for rebounding margin.

I don't take anybody seriously who really believes Olynyk's future is on the perimeter. Reminds me of that talented 7-5 Russian dude from a few years back who claimed to be a point guard. Only rare players like Magic Johnson, Grant Hill, and LeBron James have enough handles at heights over 6'7 to be effective on the perimeter. Olynyk isn't in their class, and won't make it as a 3. He's absolutely a high-post power forward going forward, or he'll end up never sniffing the NBA.

100 pounds of crap in a 80 pound sack, or 150 pounds of crap in a in a 100 pound sack. It's a quandry for me. All I can say for sure is the crap is just amazing and so is your inability to analyze anything with anything resembling basic intelligence.

U Zig, I Zag
03-11-2010, 10:58 PM
I think KO will develop toughness that will give him the confidence to use finesse because it's the right moment for it. Right now I think he defaults to a softer, more finesse game on offense. As he realizes he is a huge guy with huge talent he will become deadly.

Maybe too soon this year, but I bet his breakout game is going to be big. 25/10 20/15 something like that. He is crafty, but sometimes you have to bring a sledgehammer to work. I think that's what he needs to pick up.




*tell Rob that, Kelly!

CanadianZagFan
03-12-2010, 03:18 AM
Lets remember that Kelly has not played very much basketball in the post at all. The Kid has learned the game from the perimeter and is still finding his way as a face up power forward. His future to me is as a 4, we just need to give him a little time to learn the position, with that will come increased shot blocking, better post scoring, and the ability to take his man off the bounce.

Going from a guard to a post is a hard transition, next season we will see Kelly as a much better big forward, book it!

Birddog
03-12-2010, 04:35 AM
100 pounds of crap in a 80 pound sack, or 150 pounds of crap in a in a 100 pound sack. It's a quandry for me. All I can say for sure is the crap is just amazing and so is your inability to analyze anything with anything resembling basic intelligence.
Yeah, but he uses a lot of words.

webspinnre
03-12-2010, 07:23 AM
I don't see how people can predict an NBA career (or a European career) based on this very limited playing time his freshman year. He's got alot of skills I like, to probably be a hybrid 4 who plays face up. He just needs to continue to fill out his body, and get used to playing at that size. Continue to develop his post moves and positioning for rebounding, and he'll be an excellent Zag.

2Zags3Pups
03-12-2010, 08:26 AM
The other thing to remember to is that Kelly has not been asked to score. He is filling role at this point and does not need to be the leading scorer. At some point in the next year or two, he'll be asked to score more and he definitely has the weapons to do so, I believe. I don't care who you are or who you play, you don't score as much as he did in high school and shoot the percentages that he did and not have that translate to the next level.

Ezag
03-12-2010, 09:25 AM
The other thing to remember to is that Kelly has not been asked to score. He is filling role at this point and does not need to be the leading scorer. At some point in the next year or two, he'll be asked to score more and he definitely has the weapons to do so, I believe. I don't care who you are or who you play, you don't score as much as he did in high school and shoot the percentages that he did and not have that translate to the next level.


Not being asked to score is one of the dumbest things I have continuously heard on this board. While that may not be his primary role, why on earth would a coach not ask everyone on his team to score when possible. It is bad enough we have people like Meech who can't score.

skan72
03-12-2010, 09:42 AM
I think what he is saying is that Olynyk isn't the main option, not even close. But he looked good hitting that three against SMC, won't lie. He will be a very good player, I agree with Mal not at all. I saw the guy play in high school, a lot. He did TORCH guys with his shot, from everywhere. His handle was very good for a guy his size. Trust me, he will develop into an inside-out threat, give him time, he's played one season so far and he's already in the rotation.

He is in the gym too much, he works too hard, he is too smart, and he puts too much time into his game to not be that good at what he does. He can shoot the rock, maybe he will put even more time into working on it this summer than he ever has before...which is practically impossible. But, you'll see, next year probably.

spudzag
03-12-2010, 10:34 AM
I agree on the Meech/GJ assement. I have a feeling that GJ is gone though... don't know why, just do.

No backup PG at that point? GG? He seems more of a 2 to me... he might have trouble with quicker PGs

Think there is a good chance GJ will explore other situations. If not I don't think Fewie would be looking for a JUCO point.

cjm720
03-12-2010, 10:44 AM
Not being asked to score is one of the dumbest things I have continuously heard on this board. While that may not be his primary role, why on earth would a coach not ask everyone on his team to score when possible. It is bad enough we have people like Meech who can't score.

"when possible" is a bit of a relative term that's the basis of your argument. I think Few would want "good shots." Look at GJ at the beginning of the year. He'd look to score right away and would get yanked 1) because of the hasty decision to shoot/drive and 2) because it was not his role. Few runs a lot of sets and needs his players to know where they need to be or else the whole plan gets messed up. That's why Meech sees so much time - he understands the plays plus his speed, athleticism, defensive, fiestiness, etc.

gamagin
03-12-2010, 11:47 AM
I think what he is saying is that Olynyk isn't the main option, not even close. But he looked good hitting that three against SMC, won't lie. He will be a very good player, I agree with Mal not at all. I saw the guy play in high school, a lot. He did TORCH guys with his shot, from everywhere. His handle was very good for a guy his size. Trust me, he will develop into an inside-out threat, give him time, he's played one season so far and he's already in the rotation.

He is in the gym too much, he works too hard, he is too smart, and he puts too much time into his game to not be that good at what he does. He can shoot the rock, maybe he will put even more time into working on it this summer than he ever has before...which is practically impossible. But, you'll see, next year probably.


KO has potential, lots of it, with flashes of brilliance. He has exceeded most expectations for a freshman already and has seen valuable p.t. Potential is all anyone could hope for at this juncture in a teenager's career. And good health.

His best moments so far may have been vs. SMC recently. That's a good sign, yet another that he's growing nicely into the program.

I'm hoping he has even better games, valuable p.t., in the dance, but mostly look forward to his enjoying a good to great career as a Zag.

So, Skan, try not to explain what you've already seen with your own eyes and experienced long before KO was discovered by GU and recruited, to someone who doesn't know what he's talking about in the first place, even if he does seem to have some creepy cult following and an insatiable appetite for his own dog food, which he considers steak. It's dog food.

gamagin
03-12-2010, 05:05 PM
Gee gamagin, has your sack of dog food gone sour? I've seen good things from Olynyk, but because I don't see a future superstar in agreement with you then you denigrate my opinion and insult me.

He'll be a valuable starter, and could well be in the running for an all conference selection his last couple years. Perhaps I'm underrating his talent. I'm alright with that, since the Zags are better if that's the case. But in the end, I make no sense since I don't share your opinion, right? Or is that not the basic logic of your statements?

I'm alright playing the devil's advocate to the majority/vocal minority opinion that Olynyk is going to be a superstar. I don't think this discussion should that either Kelly is incredibly amazing or you hate him and your opinion is crap. I just don't like his prospects as much as you or Jazz do. What's great is that there's people who don't agree with me and still show respect.

I look forward to seeing Olynyk the next couple seasons, so we can revisit our initial opinions. Just by looking at NBA draft rankings or star rankings for college players we know that it's pretty difficult to nail a talent evaluation, but I'm looking forward to seeing how well your's holds up.

I said virtually said none of the things you claim I said in the above post. THAT is what raises my ire. I suspect that of others, as well.

You just make stuff up.

I said he had potential. lots of it. You said I'm claiming "future superstardom". I can tell you I am hoping he becomes a superstar (who doesn't?), but haven't said he will be. It's too soon. I try not to jump a game, much less a season or an entire career ahead like you seem to like to do. It's where you seem most comfortable and where I find you least credible.

You have been all over the map, from insisting he'd be/should be/outta be/shoulda been redshirted before the season started, or had barely begun, to knocking him along the way at several opportunities (some fair, more not, imo), to whatever else you made up after you took a vacation.

Finally you come back in this thread with the incredible assessment that he is not NBA material and blah blah blah.

That one really woke me up. Most of the time I just say to myself "this kid will grow up someday. He's not a bad writer. He can't resist overkill."

But It takes real gall to start imagining another young fellow's future out of hand and then dispatch it -- all while he is still 18 years old and the dance hasn't even started.

Your not the devil's advocate, as you claim above. You are the devil when it comes to misinterpreting. If my opinion that he is full of potential, had a great freshman year, hopefully will shine in the playoffs and will likely be very successful as a Zag doesn't hold up, well, I can live with that.

I never said he was incredibly amazing, either, as you claim.

So don't put your sardonic words into my posts. It makes you even creepier. Anyone can look up either of our posts , if they are really bored.

Re: your last pgh above. you wrote:
<<I look forward to seeing Olynyk the next couple seasons, so we can revisit our initial opinions. Just by looking at NBA draft rankings or star rankings for college players we know that it's pretty difficult to nail a talent evaluation, but I'm looking forward to seeing how well your's holds up >>

again, your initial opinions are all over the map, but generally scale from low (redshirt him-wrong), to middlin (bumpy ride but still playing more than most of bench) to maybe a starter next year, but not pro material.

I said at the beginning I liked what I saw. I saw real potential, after the first game I sat in the stands and watched him. I went from there to seeing a rather raw freshman, clearly struggling but with alot of potential (actually this was fairly common from the entire bench) and clear signs of getting better, to declaring after the SMC game that he may have turned in his best performance (game thread and elsewhere) to date, turning in points, a blocked shot and a drive to the net and a trey, etc., in just a seven minutes or so in that painful loss.

Bottom line: You don't have to wait to see how well my assessments hold up. I wasn't declaring victory or failure. I was declaring potential continuing to develop and great pleasure at the prospect. I'm not trying to play a mile ahead of the reality. That is your game and why it's a fool's game.

It's your roller coaster, self-serving, ego-centric, rolling assessments that needs constant adjustments, corrections and additions. Because they go from made up to made up further, sometimes mixed in with some interesting observations.

Finally you mention showing respect. YOu have to give it to get it. You have a ways to go if you expect much from me.

A good start would be to show some respect for your subjects, what it takes to just get selected to wear a Zag uniform and then give them enough time and space to see if they develop first to a high level of Zag performance before praising or condemning their chances of leaping to the bigs.

here's hoping .

DADoZAG
03-12-2010, 05:49 PM
I saw the guy play in high school, a lot.

skan, I'm hoping you've had a chance to watch the "knock out kid" play at GU, especially recently.

I've been up on Kelly from the start, see him as a huge part of the ZAG'S future, but am a bit concerned about his vertical.

Have you notice Kelly's leaping ability dwindling? He seemed to be able to get much higher early in the season.

If he's gaining too much weight in his lower body, that might account for it, or perhaps it's just a poor lack of perspective on my part. Yea, probably the latter.

Again, I'm huge on Kelly. Triple doubles I see his future bringing.

Go ZAGS!

MickMick
03-12-2010, 06:24 PM
He is a freshman. Not a Juco transfer. Not a 20 year old freshman. Not a red shirt freshman.

A freshman.

No one here can predict what his ceiling is.

Mark Few, who watches him in practice everyday, chose to make him one of the first guys off the bench from day one.

Talk about a clue hitting us over the head!

skan72
03-12-2010, 06:35 PM
skan, I'm hoping you've had a chance to watch the "knock out kid" play at GU, especially recently.

I've been up on Kelly from the start, see him as a huge part of the ZAG'S future, but am a bit concerned about his vertical.

Have you notice Kelly's leaping ability dwindling? He seemed to be able to get much higher early in the season.

If he's gaining too much weight in his lower body, that might account for it, or perhaps it's just a poor lack of perspective on my part. Yea, probably the latter.

Again, I'm huge on Kelly. Triple doubles I see his future bringing.

Go ZAGS!

He's put on weight this season, for sure. I think that is what is going on, and that in the off-season I'm sure he'll balance it out. He's a very smart kid and a coach's son. He'll do a jump program/plyometrics/etc. and be just fine this year. Although, I must admit I haven't watched a ton of games this year, so I'm not sure about his leaping ability dwindling.

ZagNative
03-12-2010, 07:29 PM
Do we seriously worry about the leaping ability of a 6'11" guy?

This was earlier in the season, and I know from personal experience how little time it takes for one's body to go to hell, but FWIW, from the Alberta game ...


http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/ZagNative/Zags/Olynyk/2009-11-02KellyOlynykAlbertacropped.jpg

john montana
03-12-2010, 07:45 PM
I only have two things to add.

One, I have no clue if ko will play on the NBA. I don't enjoy watching the NBA until the playoff when the players are trying to win so I am not one to judge NBA potential.

Two, mal if you really think that arop (who has tons of wonderful traits and is an absolute favorite of mine) is even on the same planet as ko in terms of court vision then I am pretty sure we are watching a different game. I just don't see that nor do i see what in the heck shotblocking has to do with anything in this discussion.

Still, an interesting thread. It is funny how three guys can watch the same basketball game and all come away with different ideas of what was key, who controlled the game etc.

alldaye
03-12-2010, 07:48 PM
Not being asked to score is one of the dumbest things I have continuously heard on this board. While that may not be his primary role, why on earth would a coach not ask everyone on his team to score when possible. It is bad enough we have people like Meech who can't score.

Exactly. True, Few doesn't always expect the Freshman to score 10-15 a night, but does that mean he doesn't ask them to score. If you play for a program like Gonzaga, and you get PT, you have to be able to score, KO can

alldaye
03-12-2010, 07:50 PM
I only have two things to add.

One, I have no clue if ko will play on the NBA. I don't enjoy watching the NBA until the playoff when the players are trying to win so I am not one to judge NBA potential.

Two, mal if you really think that arop (who has tons of wonderful traits and is an absolute favorite of mine) is even on the same planet as ko in terms of court vision then I am pretty sure we are watching a different game. I just don't see that nor do i see what in the heck shotblocking has to do with anything in this discussion.

Still, an interesting thread. It is funny how three guys can watch the same basketball game and all come away with different ideas of what was key, who controlled the game etc.

If people don't think he can dunk, got to youtube and type in "Kelly Olynyk". It should be the first one to come up. He's no Elias Harris, but his vert for a 6'11 white kid is decent

GU69
03-12-2010, 08:28 PM
Do we seriously worry about the leaping ability of a 6'11" guy?

Thanks, ZN.
I was reading through this thread and frowning until I got this laugh.

whatazag
03-12-2010, 09:21 PM
Do we seriously worry about the leaping ability of a 6'11" guy?


I worry about the leaping ability of a certain 7'5" guy on our team (who can actually touch the rim standing). I seem to remember him missing 2 dunks in 1 game...
:D

ZagNative
03-12-2010, 09:30 PM
I worry about the leaping ability of a certain 7'5" guy on our team (who can actually touch the rim standing). I seem to remember him missing 2 dunks in 1 game...
:DYes, and we were expecting so much more from Will?

Leaping ability would have helped?

MickMick
03-12-2010, 09:37 PM
Could JP Batista jump over a telephone book?

Just askin'

BlueVoodoo07
03-13-2010, 02:24 AM
Do we seriously worry about the leaping ability of a 6'11" guy?

This was earlier in the season, and I know from personal experience how little time it takes for one's body to go to hell, but FWIW, from the Alberta game ...


http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/ZagNative/Zags/Olynyk/2009-11-02KellyOlynykAlbertacropped.jpg
That kid on the right looks like he could have been in wizard of oz, how tall is he 3feet?

bigblahla
03-13-2010, 04:44 AM
no need to be depressed as a third of the people on this board thinks half the team sucks and the coach should be fired.

Thank you, that's the first real laugh I've had since Vegas. :D Ain't it the truth.

GO!! Zags!!!

bigblahla
03-13-2010, 04:48 AM
He is a freshman. Not a Juco transfer. Not a 20 year old freshman. Not a red shirt freshman.

A freshman.

No one here can predict what his ceiling is.

Mark Few, who watches him in practice everyday, chose to make him one of the first guys off the bench from day one.

Talk about a clue hitting us over the head!

+1

Go!! Zags!!!

vandalzag
03-13-2010, 08:04 AM
The Boston Celtics' GM loves Kelly's game. -Bobzag

“he will be the focal point of this offense in two years” -cjm720

“After this year I say Kelly will have the highest basketball IQ on the team. “ Blue Voodoo

“I'm on record saying that KO could be GU's next AMMO. I'm probably wrong “ -krozman

“I think he sees the floor nearly as well as Bouldin”-John_montana

I saw these statements, and decided that the Danny Ainge reference was enough to point out that there's been plenty of mistakes in talent evaluation on both the NBA and the collegiate rankings level. I don't know what degree Ainge likes him, and he could well see him as a player might worth checking out for a second round pick in a few years. I don't really know. I decided I'd respond to these statements, and do my best to offer a fair critique of his game with these statements. I think they are pretty fair.

“Let's not get carried away by proclaiming him to be the future focal point of the offense or seeing the floor nearly as well as one of the program's most basketball savvy players ever.”

“Olynyk isn't a shot blocker at all, and that affects his ability to play in the post.”

“Olynyk doesn't have great post footwork, but he has improved over the course of the season.”

“Olynyk isn't a dead eye shooter from long range, especially when compared to Daye or Heytvelt.”

“Olynyk doesn't pass as well as point guards, although he certainly is well above average for a post player.”

“Olynyk isn't fast enough on the perimeter to really guard 3s”

I suppose I did get the sense that many people think he could get into the NBA, and I'm sure some past statements influence what I was writing. Looking back, I feel like I properly handled speaking about his abilities right now compared to where he'd need to develop to be a real NBA prospect.

“I don't take anybody seriously who really believes Olynyk's future is on the perimeter. Reminds me of that talented 7-5 Russian dude from a few years back who claimed to be a point guard. Only rare players like Magic Johnson, Grant Hill, and LeBron James have enough handles at heights over 6'7 to be effective on the perimeter. Olynyk isn't in their class, and won't make it as a 3. He's absolutely a high-post power forward going forward, or he'll end up never sniffing the NBA.”

This statement was meant to convey that I didn't think Kelly had the handles at his current height to effective play the one or the two. Especially in the context that I didn't think he could really guard 3s. Hence my opinion of where I role I see him.

What's odd is that I don't get the same backlash for some things I've written about Meech in the past. Why doesn't that set you off into saying things like, “All I can say for sure is the crap is just amazing and so is your inability to analyze anything with anything resembling basic intelligence.”

I'm glad skan72 could show class and simply disagree with me on the issue, but instead you try to rally a group of people against me and my “cult following.” Makes me think gamagin that you're actually the one worth not wasting my time on in the future, since I believe in my observations and how I see the game.

I'll readily concede I'm not an NBA GM or an NCAA coach. I don't always buy into the hype of past and present Gonzaga players, although I'm always rooting for them come game time. Part of critical thinking is assessing both negative and positive. While I haven't denied his potential to fill a role akin to past Zags like “Cory Violette” or “Josh Heytvelt.” Gee, any high school player would hate to have those careers.

Anyway, I'm glad you care enough to dislike my posts, especially since you seem to remember them. I can honestly say that I can't think of anything you've ever written on this board, though I have a slight sense of the value of your opinion.

Really Mal I think you need to stop kidding around and take this message board business a little more seriously. I mean your levity and lack of focus should be taken over to the Autopsy message boards. This is board for serious people with serious intentions. Stop messing around with internet.

john montana
03-13-2010, 09:07 AM
Really Mal I think you need to stop kidding around and take this message board business a little more seriously. I mean your levity and lack of focus should be taken over to the Autopsy message boards. This is board for serious people with serious intentions. Stop messing around with internet.

Hah...that made me laugh.

I have no issue agreeing to disagree Mal, and don't think I've thrown any personal jabs your way. I'm interested in people's opinions but trying to take it a bit lighter like Vandalzag points out above. Bottom line, we just see the game differently.

Oh, and i'm right, you're wrong. hah!

DADoZAG
03-13-2010, 11:31 AM
Do we seriously worry about the leaping ability of a 6'11" guy?

This was earlier in the season, and I know from personal experience how little time it takes for one's body to go to hell, but FWIW, from the Alberta game ...


http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/ZagNative/Zags/Olynyk/2009-11-02KellyOlynykAlbertacropped.jpg

Good point, ZN. Wasn't that photo of the play against Alberta where KO got the ball at the 3 point line, took one dribble, and slammed it home?

Like I said, my concern about a drop in KO's vertical is probably a lack of prospective, one only given importance due to my cinical, "dark" side.

KO's body might still be changing, and not all changes are good. But his future is bright, no doubt, because his game is not just built on athletics, but is founded on his IQ as well.

Go ZAGS!

alaskazagnut
03-13-2010, 12:57 PM
Do we seriously worry about the leaping ability of a 6'11" guy?

This was earlier in the season, and I know from personal experience how little time it takes for one's body to go to hell, but FWIW, from the Alberta game ...


http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/ZagNative/Zags/Olynyk/2009-11-02KellyOlynykAlbertacropped.jpg

Kelly could still be growing. Even if he has stopped growing, he probably isn't even used to his size and height yet so he still needs to adjust constantly.

BlueVoodoo07
03-13-2010, 01:00 PM
Come on man doesn't anybody else think #13 in the pic looks like a midget?

Xin Loi 67
03-13-2010, 01:14 PM
I'm sorry but 7'-4" or not KO is more of a force than Will.

BlueVoodoo07
03-13-2010, 01:25 PM
K.O. has a great shot of being a first round pick after four years with the Zags. Already got the height and length, will bulk up some more I am sure, and than with having a Father that coached and Few his Basketball IQ will be right there. One other thing a lot of people don't realize is he will be the team leader. He played QB in high school and knows how to rally people around him. For people that disagree with that look back at Matty his freshman year, Kelly knows about roles and when it's his turn to step up and be the man. I have no doubt that he will be ready to take over.

BlueVoodoo07
03-13-2010, 04:08 PM
Outside of Bouldin, Gray, Harris, and maybe Sacre, every guy has major deficiencies they need to work on this off if they don't want to have a drop off next year. I'll gladly to be the loudest supporter of KO if he amazes me with his ability to improve his deficiencies, and becomes the guy to more than fill the void of Bouldin. I have no problem changing my opinions when I see change, and I don't root against players.

Outside of everybody you said, besides Meech are they almost not all Freshman. They may have some work to do, but I wouldn't say all have major deficiencies. Please list what these major deficiencies are so we can understand

Crazy
03-14-2010, 03:26 AM
Exactly. True, Few doesn't always expect the Freshman to score 10-15 a night, but does that mean he doesn't ask them to score. If you play for a program like Gonzaga, and you get PT, you have to be able to score, KO can

and he says he could score even more, but till now Few game is designed to give their scoring abilities primary to Steven, matt and Harris. If he say give elias the ball and space to create, or makes blocks that Steven get a free look etc. He asked/wanted then to score, he won't say Kelly don't throw the Ball, but maybe he says just take the shots you are comforble with and just play few system where KO should score in the end.

Personally i like him very much, is outside skillset is very nice for a palyer with his size and even his Post presence is OK at this point even if he lacks of muscle(but thats quite normla at his age), and at least in Europe 4 Ballahandling and a solid shot becomes more and more important for the post players.

seasontixholder
03-14-2010, 07:16 AM
The odds are Kelly will be a hybrid 4. Too big to be a 3 on defense, and more Heytveltish than Heytvelt (with a skillset to be able to do the things that Josh loved to do). Not a spectacular rebounder but a solid one, with good passing skill that is usually the biggest liability for a real 4. The coaches are going to have to adapt to him as much as he to them.

Kelly is a typical physically immature freshmen with added burdens of coping with his late growth and learning a different floor position. He is also burdened with a basketball conscience, something that Manny keeps at arm's length. Unlike Manny, who can adapt and help when the offense breaks down, Kelly is still trying to do things properly and doesn't yet have the savvy or confidence to wing it. He's still thinking too much, and it has affected every part of his game temporarily. But he is destined to be a really good player, because he has an unusual toolbox and is a competitor to the core.

ronh_pm
03-14-2010, 09:47 AM
Kelly's positioning and play will follow along the lines of Nowitzki. He will play as a power forward but will also, depending on the defense, play as a centre or small forward.

His passing, shooting, and vision of the court will allow this.

Gonzaga will not turn him into a post (they call it a post for a reason) as he has too much upside everywhere else on the court.

OZZY
03-14-2010, 07:25 PM
Thanks everyone! I've got over my temporary depression about KO's place in the team, all the good things that have been said have restored my faith in our boards posters. Sorry to be the spark in the feud between two of our more colorful members......

I have said before on this board that I believe that by the time KO leaves GU he will be one of the most beloved of all Zags, I am looking forward to the rest of his career with great anticipation.

Now I would also love to see a Gonzaga / Syracuse game soon! From a Canadian perspective, Rautins, Joseph (btw all three cousins are playing in the West region of the dance) up against Rob, KO and Bol (too bad Manny couldn't play he would have loved to be matched up against Rautins and Joseph).

So come on Zags beat Florida State!

:)

BlueVoodoo07
03-15-2010, 02:27 AM
K.O. has a great shot of being a first round pick after four years with the Zags. Already got the height and length, will bulk up some more I am sure, and than with having a Father that coached and Few his Basketball IQ will be right there. One other thing a lot of people don't realize is he will be the team leader. He played QB in high school and knows how to rally people around him. For people that disagree with that look back at Matty his freshman year, Kelly knows about roles and when it's his turn to step up and be the man. I have no doubt that he will be ready to take over.

Just to back up my thoughts KO is the only Freshman they interviewed on KREM after Selection Sunday, he sounded like some one that will be a leader. Now lets go Zags, time to spear those indians:)

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-15-2010, 11:20 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see KO play a big role in this 1st round game vs FSU. Their biggest weapons are inside players with great size and length, which means KO will definitely see more PT..either to spell Sacre/Harris who will be working so hard on 'D' and/or picking up fouls

With KO on the court and his ability to knock down 3's, Zags may want to use him to draw FSU's big man outside of the paint and give our guards better driving lanes.

Just a thought Would love to see Kelly O' step into the national spotlight with a big-time performance Friday

GO ZAGS!!!

skan72
03-15-2010, 11:26 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see KO play a big role in this 1st round game vs FSU. Their biggest weapons are inside players with great size and length, which means KO will definitely see more PT..either to spell Sacre/Harris who will be working so hard on 'D' and/or picking up fouls

With KO on the court and his ability to knock down 3's, Zags may want to use him to draw FSU's big man outside of the paint and give our guards better driving lanes.

Just a thought Would love to see Kelly O' step into the national spotlight with a big-time performance Friday

GO ZAGS!!!

That is a fantastic name: GonzagasaurusFlex! Love it.

ZagsGoZags
09-15-2010, 02:17 PM
Mal,
I love it when you, or anyone, brings logic to bear on the arguments brought into this board.
I respect the Jesuit tradition mightily for its philosophical integrity.

Yay zags. Yay GU.

+1