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View Full Version : How would we be with Austin Daye?



zagfan1
03-10-2010, 05:58 PM
We have taken a good hard look at our 2009-2010 Zags and have seen their strengths and weakneses. Now to circle back to Austin Daye's decision to leave school early. My question to everyone is would the Zags have done better with Austin Daye playing this year or not? Or did Elias Harris do enough to let us permanently forget about Austin. What do you think?

BroncoZAG615
03-10-2010, 06:00 PM
We'd be sensational. Three seed at worst.

Just thought I'd get this in before the subsequent Austin bashing that is sure to come.

ZagLawGrad
03-10-2010, 06:02 PM
We have taken a good hard look at our 2009-2010 Zags and have seen their strengths and weakneses. Now to circle back to Austin Daye's decision to leave school early. My question to everyone is would the Zags have done better with Austin Daye playing this year or not? Or did Elias Harris do enough to let us permanently forget about Austin. What do you think?

Forward ho. Better off without AD. EH much tougher and just as good a scorer.

MississppiZag
03-10-2010, 06:07 PM
Anyone who thinks we are better off, is crazy, IMO.

Bouldin
Gray
Harris
Daye
Sacre

Goodson gets to be the energy guy off the bench. We get to redshirt GJ to separate yrs between Meech and GJ. Win/Win situation. We gain a great shotblocker, 40% 3 pt shooter, and a good rebounder.

MDABE80
03-10-2010, 06:13 PM
Not sure...fantasy and reality don't coincide all too often.. Defense and rebounding what this team has needed. I don't think Austin was strong in either. Sure he'd score...it's the other things that make a teambetter.
In the above team, we'd still need a point guard...this position with a good player makes huge the difference in success or failure. Role players might help...AD would have a role...but at what price? Just not sure....he might be a good 6th man though. Defense? Rebounding?

ZagLawGrad
03-10-2010, 06:24 PM
Anyone who thinks we are better off, is crazy, IMO.

Bouldin
Gray
Harris
Daye
Sacre

Goodson gets to be the energy guy off the bench. We get to redshirt GJ to separate yrs between Meech and GJ. Win/Win situation. We gain a great shotblocker, 40% 3 pt shooter, and a good rebounder.

He was soft and the chemistry just wasn't right.

MississppiZag
03-10-2010, 06:34 PM
He would have crushed the blocks record. Austin Daye is one of the better shot blockers to have played at GU. He also avg 7 rebounds in 26 min. Elias avg 7.2 in 29 min.

JohnOGU
03-10-2010, 06:34 PM
We'd be sensational. Three seed at worst.

Just thought I'd get this in before the subsequent Austin bashing that is sure to come.

I completely agree. We would be an absolute matchup nightmare, and that's what it is all about (with the exception of the WCC 'ship game this year).

Austin was not soft at all. He did have a bad attitude at times, but he was by no means soft.

Our rebounding would be even better than it already is, our defense would be better, Austin would be able to basically score at will, etc.

We'd be a lot better than we are currently.

BroncoZAG615
03-10-2010, 06:45 PM
These are great threads for discussion, even if they are unrealistic as Mr. Daye is in the NBA now.

I would have been VERY interested to see how Few juggled the starting lineup. He never does this, but I think he could have used different starting lineups for different games. Against athletic teams with solid defense he could start Meech at point and then in the conference he could start Matt, Steven, and Austin in the backcourt and just overwhelm teams.

My dream when Austin came to Gonzaga was to one day see him at his natural position on the outside where he can create. Sadly we never got to see it happen, but it would've been damn fun.

surfmonkey89
03-10-2010, 06:46 PM
Dysfunctional

Once and Future Zag
03-10-2010, 06:48 PM
He would have crushed the blocks record. Austin Daye is one of the better shot blockers to have played at GU.

Credit where credit is due - he was great, but we have someone just as great right now.

Rob Sacre: 3.12 blocks/40
Austin Daye: 3.13 blocks/40

MickMick
03-10-2010, 06:48 PM
Doesn't solve the point guard position.

jaydee77
03-10-2010, 06:52 PM
We would have to check with Austins relatives.

RockandRollJames
03-10-2010, 07:19 PM
I was never a huge fan of the guy himself, but we would be much, much better with him. I have no doubt. Everyone talks about chemistry, but who is to say there would not be chemistry with Austin?
Looking back to last year, we have so much more talent. It would be nice to have some more of that.

Bombs over Zaghdad
03-10-2010, 07:27 PM
Come on guys. You know the answer to this. Bouldin said it himself earlier in the year. " We got rid of all the prima-donnas."

Daye was a whiny little.... Actually Im suprised he never tripped on his lower lip coming off the floor.

Better and tougher without him.

I guarantee Few is glad to have him gone. I am.

Once and Future Zag
03-10-2010, 07:41 PM
Come on guys. You know the answer to this. Bouldin said it himself earlier in the year. " We got rid of all the prima-donnas."

Daye was a whiny little.... Actually Im suprised he never tripped on his lower lip coming off the floor.

Better and tougher without him.

I guarantee Few is glad to have him gone. I am.

Wow, if I were austin, I'd be glad I was gone as well.

krozman
03-10-2010, 07:42 PM
I don't think we'd have gained a LOT, but I think we'd be better off. The reason for this, is because Elias Harris wouldn't have been "discovered" until next year. Elias has been dominant in some games, so IMO it would have been a wash results wise.

alaskazagnut
03-10-2010, 08:02 PM
We would have only 2 losses right now and we would have ran the table in the WCC including the Conference Tourney.

Hence we would be 30-2 (our first 30 win season) and ranked top 5 along with a 2-3 seed in the Tourney.

Larrylegend
03-10-2010, 08:11 PM
GU is better without Daye for many reasons:

* Daye was soft and this team need toughness
* Unlike great players, Daye made no one around him better
* Others have spoken about Daye's lack of chemistry (can imagine Daye and Harris chirping at one another)

WMS2GUBULLDOG
03-10-2010, 08:42 PM
Wow, it would solve so many of our problems. We could play him at his natural position at the three or give us more depth up front. Not as good on defense? are your serious? By far the best shotblocker on the a team last year and imagine him in a matchup zone, an absolute nightmare. The kid was an incredible rebounder as well. My only issue is possible chemistry issues. The guy had a huge head and was not tough at all. I miss his skills and talent, probably the best I will see at GU unless Elias passes him, but not sure how he would have fit in. I know the guys on the team didn't like him.

Reborn
03-10-2010, 09:08 PM
We would have been a lot better with austin daye. Austin would have been an all american like Bouldin. Austin vs Arop or say bol is a no brainer.wow We'd be a top 10 or 15 team for sure. Austin was a great player. He was just young and learning. This would have been a great year for him I am sure.
But if he didn't get along with the guys that would have been a problem.
so really it's hard to say when he ISN'T HERE

MDABE80
03-10-2010, 09:23 PM
We ever find a super good point guard, the bigs will be better. Austin was here...not much different. FInd a good point, we'll be tons better even if..in the next life Austin was here. For now though...we've got all the horses we need. Not much would change in terms of winning percentage. And he wasn't much for defense and rebounding...Blocks he had...the defense wasn't his strong suit.... and guess what??.. Detroit didn't hire him for defense.

U Zig, I Zag
03-10-2010, 09:27 PM
Everything else the same and just add Austin? Top 10 team all year and 2/3 in the tourney. I always liked him. Most didn't (it seems).

deathchina
03-10-2010, 11:05 PM
I disagree on the point that Austin didn't make anyone else better. He was actually a really fantastic passer.

Saxon_zag
03-10-2010, 11:59 PM
Austin was awesome, I didn't care that he complained to the refs once in a while... Especially the wcc ones, actually I wish someone would have gotten more on them in some recent games...

Zag79
03-11-2010, 04:27 AM
final 4. bouldin gray elias daye sacre. wow.

jpwils
03-11-2010, 07:35 AM
Whether we liked Austin as an individual or not-he would have been the lock
down scorer we needed when Gray or Bouldin or Harris was off.

Harris may have been 6th man but our record would be slightly better and we would be probably a 3 seed.

Need to develop more scoring threat out of point position in any case or shift Bouldin to point or Gray to point if Daye was here with Meech as energy guy.

GonzagaSwagga
03-11-2010, 08:41 AM
We would be a lot better talent-wise, obviously (from a genetic and natural talent perspective I think he was the best we've had), but I don't think we would be a better team. Remember the beginning of the year when Matt said "We got rid of all the prima donnas"? Who do you think he was talking about?

I could see Daye and Harris not getting along at all, and I prefer a guy like Elias who is tough as nails and doesn't cry or whine.

Austin Daye brought that sense of bratty entitlement to this team that just doesn't fit the system...I also think he is physically incapable of closing his mouth. Stop being a mouth-breather, Austin. Oh, and have a sandwich or something...maybe Omar will share (doubtful).

Zag 77
03-11-2010, 08:44 AM
Physically talented.

Head Case. Prima Donna. Whiner. Bad attitude. It speaks volumes that nobody on the team seems to miss him.

Whatever we lost in his athletic ability is offset by better team cohesion. He will over time, become the least remembered Zag to have played here and gone on to play professionally. It is interesting that hardly any mention here except for the beginning of the NBA season.

It will be interesting to see if he ever shows his face at a GU game like Morrison or Turiaf have managed to do. We can wait and see on that one.

ZagLawGrad
03-11-2010, 08:51 AM
For some reason, I just don't think of AD as a Zag. Go figure.

U Zig, I Zag
03-11-2010, 09:42 AM
Physically talented.

Head Case. Prima Donna. Whiner. Bad attitude. It speaks volumes that nobody on the team seems to miss him.

Whatever we lost in his athletic ability is offset by better team cohesion. He will over time, become the least remembered Zag to have played here and gone on to play professionally. It is interesting that hardly any mention here except for the beginning of the NBA season.

It will be interesting to see if he ever shows his face at a GU game like Morrison or Turiaf have managed to do. We can wait and see on that one.

Not sure on the cohesion. We look pretty out of sync lately if you ask me.

Given a chance to lead and to be a go to guy would have served Austin well. He would have little history with the new kids and might have felt compelled to step up and take them under his wings.

We don't have a guy that can make his own shot no matter what. Elias kinda - but that has waned. Austin could play in/out, off the bounce, pull up from 10 ft.

I miss him.

Zagdawg
03-11-2010, 11:36 AM
When Daye was here -- we had plenty of strong personalities to help with the team leadership-- and helping to develop the young guys.

I enjoyed his time with us-- but with this much youth on our team currently-- would you want Daye being the primary guy teaching them the college ropes? I really wasn't impressed with his attitude on the court and the way he reacted when a call did not go his way.

Entitled is the word that comes to mind when I think of Austin.

Don't get me wrong in the short term he would have been great---but long term a lot of our young guys got some great experience without his presence here-- and it will pay off down the line.

SunDevilGolfZag
03-11-2010, 11:40 AM
Didn't Harris take Dayes scholarship? So they could not have been here at the same time? If that is true (maybe I'm missing this) the question really is how much more would Daye have helped us than Harris. My opinion is not much, incrementally. Daye was a great player, but overall I'd take Harris. He's tougher and more of a team first player, IMO, with stats that are mostly equal or better.

WMS2GUBULLDOG
03-11-2010, 11:49 AM
Gj took AD's scholarship, not Elias

webspinnre
03-11-2010, 11:51 AM
Gj took AD's scholarship, not Elias

This.

I still think its ridiculous trying to go back and say what our chemistry might or might not have looked like this year based on the little bit we might think we know about Austin. Chemistry is such a tricky thing overall, that anyone who tells you they've got it figured out is lying to you.

Once and Future Zag
03-11-2010, 11:59 AM
To get this away from personal perceptions of the person, let's look at our old friend - Offensive Efficiency... how much does he do with the touches he gets on the court.

This year we've got (higher number is better)
Matt: 116.3
Steven: 110.3
Elias: 115.0
Rob: 101.0
Kelly: 108.7
Bol: 118.2
Mangisto: 118.1
Meech: 94.4

And...

Daye in 2009: 101.7 (8th on that team as well)

Obviously that doesn't account for how disruptive he was on in-bounds passes, or his shot-blocking ability or any of his other unique talents, but saying this team would be SIGNIFICANTLY better with him seems to overstate the case somewhat. He'd obviously change the rotation, and we'd be just that more deeper and more versatile.

Also, I think if Daye had stayed, GJ would be the odd one out, as he was the "last" addition from what I recall.

WMS2GUBULLDOG
03-11-2010, 12:01 PM
Webspinner, GJ literally got the scholarship that AD gave up when he declared. Elias had already accepted his offer.

lothar98zag
03-11-2010, 12:14 PM
The team would be different. I know this for a fact.

I'm pretty sure the team would be better with him. I'm not sure how much better, but better most likely.

The Daye "hate" has always been very interesting.

zag944
03-11-2010, 12:22 PM
so does the topic presume a significantly less talented player with the same attitude who COULDNT get drafted and stuck around?

or a player that COULD have been drafted but stayed at GU because its such a special place?

I mean, if the second one was the case, he doesnt have the flaws everyone here assigns to him, and we are that much more awesome.

my brain hurts.

webspinnre
03-11-2010, 02:28 PM
Webspinner, GJ literally got the scholarship that AD gave up when he declared. Elias had already accepted his offer.

:confused: I agreed with you.

WMS2GUBULLDOG
03-11-2010, 02:48 PM
I was confused by the context my quotation in one of your entries, good thing we got it cleared up!;)

U Zig, I Zag
03-12-2010, 09:49 AM
I know it's highlight vid - but it shows some toughness and aggressiveness we didn't always see last year. I don't try to pigeonhole a whole group of folks - but the peeps that don't think Austin would be an asset on this year's team are diluted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfloZwouFEM

webspinnre
03-12-2010, 10:30 AM
I think people forget that Austin was only a sophomore last year. Look at that video and see how he's gotten stronger (not really bigger, he's still rail thin). I can't believe people saying that they wouldn't take him on the team.

GonzagaSwagga
03-12-2010, 11:21 AM
I don't think anyone is talking about his size, strength, or ability...On paper? Yes he's a phenonemal asset to any team. Actual basketball is a heck of a lot more than a stat sheet, and I (my opinion, independent of anyone else's) am glad he's not on THIS team.

One of the biggest compliments that the team received this year was that they resembled the tough, team-oriented style of play that got this program to where it is. Daye, while oozing raw talent, didn't seem to do anything to build or contribute to the chemistry of last year's squad. If anything, his consistently negative and entitled attitude only worked to break down what had been previously built.

webspinnre
03-12-2010, 02:00 PM
I don't think anyone is talking about his size, strength, or ability...On paper? Yes he's a phenonemal asset to any team. Actual basketball is a heck of a lot more than a stat sheet, and I (my opinion, independent of anyone else's) am glad he's not on THIS team.

One of the biggest compliments that the team received this year was that they resembled the tough, team-oriented style of play that got this program to where it is. Daye, while oozing raw talent, didn't seem to do anything to build or contribute to the chemistry of last year's squad. If anything, his consistently negative and entitled attitude only worked to break down what had been previously built.

My previous comment still stands:


I still think its ridiculous trying to go back and say what our chemistry might or might not have looked like this year based on the little bit we might think we know about Austin. Chemistry is such a tricky thing overall, that anyone who tells you they've got it figured out is lying to you.

Bogozags
03-12-2010, 02:12 PM
"In the above team, we'd still need a point guard..."

This is all fantasy...

First off, give me Pargo or Ravio or Stepp and we would be legitimate FF contenders. PG is the missing piece. God Bless Matt for all he does but being a full time PG is not his forte.

Lets talk Daye...if he was here and he started, he would have to play the three and not the four as Harris is not ready to play the three, his shot is suspect. Yes, he has made a good percentage of his shots but on a night in/night out...he isn't at that level YET!

I still like the team with Daye as the three and see the tremendous match-up issues our opponents.

This is just MHO...

sonuvazag
03-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Better.