View Full Version : Interesting post, found it over on the Winthrop board

05-01-2007, 03:08 PM
Quick: Name the best "RPI opponent" in the country last season.

Ohio State was atop the RPI at the end of the regular season, but the Buckeyes didn't provide the best bang for your RPI buck. Neither did Memphis, Florida, UCLA, Kansas, Wisconsin or North Carolina, even though all six of those elite programs also finished in the top 11 in the RPI. Why? Because all those teams were very likely to beat you, negating some of the benefit their strong win/loss records and strength of schedules provided for your RPI.

As your own winning percentage is 25 percent of your RPI, you must add relative "beatability" into the equation. When you do, the answer probably will surprise you: It's Davidson. In addition to finishing the regular season with a 25-4 Division I record, the Wildcats' overall schedule (including games in the underrated Southern Conference, which ended up 19th of the 31 conferences in RPI) was strong enough to give the Wildcats the 10th-best combination of winning percentage and SOS in the country (measured with winning percentage being worth twice as much as SOS, per the RPI formula). Now weigh the fact that most Top 25 teams would be strongly favored over Davidson at home, and it's a no-brainer.


Butler Guy
05-01-2007, 07:24 PM
evidently aren't paying attention to the math. I know Gonzaga has had a tough time scheduling, having to schedule a whole bevy of road game on the east coast and what not.

At Butler, we're running into the same issues. The Wooden Tradition is a fairly well respected 4-team, 2-game event in Indianapolis every year. Because Wooden went to Purdue, the Boilers are in the event annually. Last year and again in '07/'08, Butler was/is in the field, defeating Purdue (Ohio State v Cincinatti) was the other game.

This year the folks at the Wooden simply can't find anyone to play Butler in Indianapolis (4 miles south of campus). There has been rumors of Louisville or Kentucky, but nothing has come of that.

It's really getting to be pretty problematic. The one thing the school has going for it is our former coaches have spread out across the Big Ten (Indiana, Ohio State, Iowa, etc) so we can usually get something done with those schools (currently in the midst of a double home and home with Ohio State) but outside of that, forget about it.

The NCAA really needs to do something about the scheduling inequity. If not moving to a NCAA randomly-scheduled college basketball, then possibly altering the grading metric from the patently unfair RPI to something more similar to the Sagarin. Until then the Gongazas, Southern Illinoiss, and the Butlers of the world are going to continue to get screwed.

05-02-2007, 07:27 AM
Until then the Gongazas, Southern Illinoiss, and the Butlers of the world are going to continue to get screwed.(sic)
They're getting screwed alright, but the ones that are REALLY REALLY getting screwed are the season ticket holders! One way to attempt to change this scheduling problem is for the season ticket holders to get vocal and threaten with their $$. This is a tough way to accomplish change, but $$ will influence an AD. I have friends that are BCS alums, and they scream every year about the non conference scheduling. It really is pathetic.


05-02-2007, 07:59 AM
The irony of all this is that in Gonzaga's effort to schedule BCS teams for the SOS, at what point will mid major teams complain that Gonzaga will not schedule them? Or does playing in the WCC give them a free pass?

Some feel the mid major woes would be resolved if the tourney field was expanded to include both conference tournament and conference regular season champions (along with a few more at-large bids to pacify the uproar from BCS fans). Would be a killer for the NIT though.

05-02-2007, 08:47 AM
<<birddog: They're getting screwed alright, but the ones that are REALLY REALLY getting screwed are the season ticket holders! >>

I don't know exactly what can be done. the K2 is sold out with, i understand, plenty of folks wishing more season tix holders would give them up.

Even chronic no shows are being contacted and reminded others who want to go to the games would love their tickets. My guess is the rules may change there, too.

the memphis game last year, a barn burner, was held in the arena, I believe because a larger, "neutral," court was insisted upon by Memphis. That's another trend that seems to be the norm now.

But the bottom line is no high profile team I'm aware of wants to play GU at K2 and there's really no way to force them to do so.

The only bigs so far (I believe) @ K2 have been WSU and UW, largely I suppose, due to tradition and the fact that there was a multi year deal for home and homes. UW is now out of that loop, of course.

so simply picketing the Mac or calling the athletic department demanding a better home sked seems fruitless, given the setup and the reality.

I would love it, of course, but understand that protesting doesn't seem to fit the situation we face here.

It may just be too complicated to try and get home and homes with big names anymore and perhaps isn't worth the energy.

When/if a big is banging on our door and needs to play us the way we used to need to play other big names to prep for the season, or test our mettle, or hopefully pad our RPI, then we can make such a demand.

And perhaps get it done.

Butler Guy
05-02-2007, 09:14 AM
to get around the issue is for all the premier "mid majors" to simply schedule each other.

What would you think of establishing home and homes with a cross section of the following:

- Winthrop
- Creighton
- Southern Illinois
- Butler
- Drexel
- Missouri State
- Va Commonwealth
- Davidson

05-02-2007, 09:38 AM
Does it really matter whether "BIG name" teams are willing to play GU at K2? I agree that it would be exciting, especially for season ticket holders, to see GU play Duke, or Carolina, or Arizona at home in K2. I also think that it is ridiculous that the big name schools will not play GU at K2 because they know that their chances of beating GU at home are not good.

Fans from "big" school like UW seem to enjoy pointing out the fact that GU needs UW more than UW needs GU, because no "BIG" schools will play GU at home. But do we really need big time programs to come play at K2?

GU has made the tournament every year for a long time now. GU's recruiting has gotten progressively better. GU continues to play high profile games on ESPN against big time programs. The GU "brand" is getting up their with the elites.

The one thing GU has not done yet, is win consistently in the tournament. Some of that is just bad luck. Some of that is not having the right players. However, failing to win in the tournament can hardly be attributed to GU's failure to schedule a lot of big time games at K2.

The goal of every season should be to win in the tournament. If no big time schools want to play GU at home, then maybe we should just schedule cupcakes at home, breeze through the WCC, finish with 29-2 records, have our 2-3 seeds get called "overrated", and then finally start winnning when it counts in the tourney.

05-02-2007, 10:17 AM
<< What would you think of establishing home and homes with a cross section of the following:
- Winthrop
- Creighton
- Southern Illinois
- Butler
- Drexel
- Missouri State
- Va Commonwealth
- Davidson >>

It's clear "something" needs to get done to allow up and coming teams to break into the rarified air.

the moving target part has to do with figuring out which teams one should play or needs to play to stay in the national spotlight.

GU seems to hold that attention, and those contracts, at least enough for where we are. I'm not sure what your draw is in fact, that is, contractually, but I loved watching the team play and would suppose most bkb fans would, too.

Of course, winning one's conference, as noted by sinto on this thread, and then attempting to break into another level, is a tack each team control's without all the posturing.

I guess ultimately its a chicken-egg thing, otherwise. and likely always will be. but the idea is sound. thanks.

best regards,

05-02-2007, 11:34 AM
My comment about the season ticket holders getting screwed was really directed more at the BCS schools although it certainly does affect the GU's of this world too. It's not unusual for BB tickets to be tied to Football tickets at many of these BCS schools, and the quality of the opponents for home games, esp in BB is pretty poor. My friends are constantly complaining. They need to get more vocal as group to force change. GU's hands are somewhat tied in regards to quality home OOC opponents.