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cjm720
03-09-2010, 12:24 PM
Although his time on the floor has been sporadic, I see a player that has and is willing to learn the system. Comparing the last few games to his first few games, I see a composed, pass-first point guard with a great first step and amazing athleticism.

I think we'll see a big leap from GJ next year.

Go Zags!!!

alaskazagnut
03-09-2010, 12:44 PM
WILL challenge Goodson for his starting position. Vilarino can finish and he can shoot FT's.

And it looks like he is almost as fast as Goodson. If it were me, Goodson starts but gets about 15 minutes. GJ starts second half and gets 8-10 minutes.

But at this point we need to stay with what we had in Maui. Our starting % needs to forget the past, forget 1999 or 2006, and they need to focus on what they know they can do.

GrizZAG
03-09-2010, 02:43 PM
Face it, Meech poses limited offensive threat with no shot other than good driving to the basket skills. He is ZERO threat from the perimeter and teams know it and put 5 on four when he has the ball. He HAS to learn to shoot a jump shot (and make them), otherwise GJ. V should get a shot at point next year. GJ needs to settel down and quit the showboat thing just like Pargo had to learn (which he finally did).
Nobody is talking about Gray's stiff elbow and arm from his aerobatic crash. He is not able to take the three with any confidence unless that elbow loosens up in 9 days.
The talk of dissapointment dissapoints me. This team is super and is just beat up is all. Not sure they can get healed in time, but I for one am very pleased at a really fun season they treated us to.
We need to take a hard look at Meech or make him learn to shoot to pose a threat.
By the way, I think LMU is better than SMC this year. Sorry Gaels....

75Zag
03-09-2010, 02:51 PM
I am disappointed in Goodson's performance as GU starting point guard in 09-10. I was as excited as anybody in the Rose Garden last March to watch Goodson score the winning basket to advance GU to the Sweet 16, but so far his day-to-day play has not been all that exciting and his statistics as a starting point guard for a top 20 team have been very poor.

I saw BobZ hint a few weeks ago that a GU guard would be transferring out. Hoping it will not be Vilarino, but I think that is very possible if Few has signaled the team that he will ride Goodson to the end of his career no matter what. I like Few but his loyalty to upperclassmen may be his weak point.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

U Zig, I Zag
03-09-2010, 03:02 PM
Play them both, at the same time. Gray can smother someone with speed and height and I think that GJ and Meech can smother guys with just pure speed. Don't leave your man alone for a minute... box out at the 3-point line if you have to.
Meech and GJ got wheels for days... they can run with anyone. We have played with two PGs before - these guys may be a little shorter than we are used to but they can both scream up the floor and GJ can shoot and jump out of the gym.

Matt is hurt - if it's not threatening his career I think he should go all out but I see nothing wrong with playing GJ more as well as GG at times.

We have gotten burned by guys driving and by guys from the outside all season long. I think the consensus is that GJ is to new and maybe guys like Bol and GG are a d-liability (Bol less and less). But witness what happened on Monday night. It was more of the same with our defense lapses.

History favors the bold. I would LOVE to see something different in the tourney.

It's a shame if GJ leaves. He is getting 10-15 a game midway through next year if he stays. We need the points and the cajones. He likes to shoot, go for it.

JAGzag
03-09-2010, 03:04 PM
From what I've seen, I really like GJ's play. Everytime he's out there he seems to make things happen and get to the rim. Meech simply doesn't have that ability - he runs up the court and always pulls up short. GJ really seems confident out there.

I just don't see this kid - once recruited by UK - to sit and watch the back of Meech's head for two more years. I trust Few ... but we've had this discussion on his loyalty (excessive at times) in the past and whether it hurts.

Ezag
03-09-2010, 03:05 PM
I like Goodson's energy, I like his speed and he can fly to the hoop now and then and lay one in, but we really need more from a point guard. There was a reason Few turned over the main point duty to Bouldin a while back and that is because Meech can not effectively run the point. Mickey McConnell ate him up last night.

U Zig, I Zag
03-09-2010, 03:09 PM
I don't want to give the impression that I dislike Meech's play. It's been better lately. I trust him with the ball... he can break pressure and get out of some sticky situations while dribbling, al la D-Rav.

But what if you let Meech and GJ run wild for a bit? Driving in and backing out - make the D work in man to man. Setting each other up, etc.

WMS2GUBULLDOG
03-09-2010, 03:14 PM
They both can not be on the floor at the same time. I like gj more, but Meech would be great off the bench. He should look to be more like venoy overton, I see that being his upside. GJ definitely has the athleticism and some game changing ability, but he will never be a star. PG will not be our strongpoint the next few years, it will move to the post.

CaZagAlum
03-09-2010, 03:49 PM
In my opinion, the one thing that would get GJ more playing time is not taking it to the rack and trying to score every time he's put in. We know he can do that, but so can Meech. We know he's fast, but so is Meech. Instead, if he showed true point guard skills: making everyone around him better when he's in, making smart decisions, passing the ball, and racking up assists, I see him getting more time on the floor. It's what the team is severely lacking. (outside of Matt, who just can't be relied on to do everything all the time)

alldaye
03-09-2010, 04:22 PM
I have always thought GJ will be the best Freshman, and I still think that. To me, Meech is a poor man's GJ. Anyways, I really hope to see GJ start soon, maybe next year??

MickMick
03-09-2010, 04:26 PM
You can't go anywhere in post season without great point guard play. You can't go anywhere in post season without making free throws.

Zags aren't going anywhere this post season.

JAGzag
03-09-2010, 04:28 PM
I have always thought GJ will be the best Freshman, and I still think that. To me, Meech is a poor man's GJ. Anyways, I really hope to see GJ start soon, maybe next year??

Point of my post was I'd be shocked if he stuck around. Why would he?

FrahmfortheWin
03-09-2010, 04:30 PM
They both can not be on the floor at the same time.

because?

That argument has been made before so I dont mean to point you out specifically WMS, but Im curious....why not?

The speed combination alone has potential that we should explore. We could give other teams fits in the transition. It may never pan out but until we have them both on the floor for some extended minutes I dont see how people can make the above statement with any confidence.

JohnOGU
03-09-2010, 04:44 PM
I believe GJ will certainly challenge Meech next year, for all of the reasons listed. I think he is even quicker than Meech, and somebody who plays against him in practice every day reinforced my opinion.

The simple fact that he can score makes him more valuable, in my opinion. Dont get me wrong, i love meech, but it is what it is.

dim4sum
03-09-2010, 05:40 PM
Bouldin thanked his teammates, especially Meech, after his last game in the Kennel. It was a strange remark. What was he thanking him for---certainly not his mediocre play on the court?????

BigTymeONIONS
03-09-2010, 06:48 PM
GJ and Meech cannot be on the floor at the same time for 1 reason: neither can shoot besides a lay up. We already have a problem with other teams basically playing 5 on 4 against us when Meech is on the floor. With both it would be 5 on 3. Yes speed is great but there's no way it would work.

WMS2GUBULLDOG
03-09-2010, 07:25 PM
I think GJ has to be on the ball at least part of each possession. Gj is in the same mold as rondo (obviously not close to same amount of talent). Meech already hurts on offense sometimes, and that lineup of both of them would take away a lot of outside scoring ability, as well as I do not think either can play off ball all that well.

alldaye
03-09-2010, 07:40 PM
Well, I sure hope he doesn't leave. Do people forget he committed to Kentucky, then decommitted and committed to Gonzaga? He's a great player. He dominated our midnight madness this year, he was the leading scorer and better passer than meech. I really don't see GJ transferring, but, if he does I'd be very sad

GrizZAG
03-09-2010, 08:06 PM
Spot on..+1

spudzag
03-09-2010, 08:49 PM
I'd hate GJ go too, but if a JUCO is brought in to run the point, I think he leaves.

theothegreat21
03-09-2010, 08:55 PM
Well, I sure hope he doesn't leave. Do people forget he committed to Kentucky, then decommitted and committed to Gonzaga? He's a great player. He dominated our midnight madness this year, he was the leading scorer and better passer than meech. I really don't see GJ transferring, but, if he does I'd be very sad

You do realize that GJ committed to Kentucky as a freshman in high school...and then never really improved beyond his freshman year. GJ is kinda the classic case of a kid that matured early and peaked, and then never improved. This is why Calipari didn't keep his scholarship when he became coach. If you don't believe me, here are some quotes from Scout articles on GJ.

"G.J. is a very slightly-built 6-foot-0 point guard from McKinney, Texas. Today’s early game against Lakeshow was not a good outing for G.J. When he got into the game he showed good form early on, handling the ball well in traffic, making clean, crisp passes, and floating a nice long jumper. He helped his team play Lakeshow even throughout the first half.

But the wheels came off in the second period. When G.J. got into the game in the second half, he played a little sloppy. “I didn’t play good defense,” G.J. said, “I missed some easy shots and we did not get out on their shooters.” G.J. spent the last seven minutes of the game on the bench and finished with five points on 2-9 shooting. He did have four assists and four rebounds in a 76-61 loss. “The team is not having a good tournament,” G.J. added, “it is probably the worst we have played all year long.”

From Rivals:

"Tough night for Kentucky duo

This wasn't the start that the revamped Team Texas squad was looking for. In a disappointing loss to Chicago Express, GJ Vilarino managed eight points on 1-12 shooting from the field, and K.C. Ross-Miller scored only two points on 0-2 shooting from the field.

Roger Franklin carried the load for Team Texas, scoring 28 points on 12-21 shooting from the field and grabbing 13 rebounds."

Sorry to point things out and seem like a downer, but it just frustrates me when people make blanket statements based on seeing a kid play the final two minutes of the game when the defense isn't trying. If GJ were the best option, he would play...it really is that simple

ZagAddict
03-09-2010, 09:27 PM
You can't go anywhere in post season without great point guard play

We don't have this and I don't see it getting any better in the near future. I don't understand why we can't get an elite PG into this program to run our point. It is a system that relies upon guard play and there is playing time available.

It won't matter how dominate Harris or Sacre can be next year if we don't have a capable point guard. I can't believe our PG position has become such a liability.

jazzdelmar
03-10-2010, 03:52 AM
We don't have this and I don't see it getting any better in the near future. I don't understand why we can't get an elite PG into this program to run our point. It is a system that relies upon guard play and there is playing time available.

It won't matter how dominate Harris or Sacre can be next year if we don't have a capable point guard. I can't believe our PG position has become such a liability.

a majorly +1....often asked here, never satisfactorily answered: how can the zags pull top drawer big men -- josh, sacre, harris, daye -- and miss repeatedly on pt guards. one wd think pgs are more readily avail than bigs at the mid major (did he say that?) level....

Birddog
03-10-2010, 03:53 AM
I suspect Vilarino's lack of PT is more a result of his defense than his offense, but I haven't seen enough of him to make that assessment. I'm thinking the coaches evaluate the whole picture, not just offense. In his limited time on the court, it does strike me that he has a little too much "look at me" and not enough playmaking, but we're talking very limited minutes mostly in mop up duty.

jazzdelmar
03-10-2010, 03:54 AM
Bouldin thanked his teammates, especially Meech, after his last game in the Kennel. It was a strange remark. What was he thanking him for---certainly not his mediocre play on the court?????



not at all, from 35,000 feet it wd appear meech is a great teammate, which means far more to kids than stats.....

Therunner
03-10-2010, 05:07 AM
Vilarino can finish and he can shoot FT's.

'nuff said.

I am a member of the pro-Meech club, yet its evident GJ is craftier around the rim and has a knack for scoring. I've always said "touch" is underrated in the game of basketball and GJ has it, yet Meech doesn't. Matt Bouldin is another with tremendous "touch" and feel around the rim. He

Considering GJ and Meech are both vertically challenged, Vilarino has shown flashes of a better floater to get it over taller players. while Meech is blocked/swatted 9 times outta 10. Meech and GJ are both slight of frame and getting hit, rattled, slammed on their way to the hoop, yet GJ has made these acrobatic shots at high clip and Meech cannot. While Meech is one of the toughest, most durable players I've ever seen, he is a below average finisher. In his limited minutes, GJ has shown he has this ability.

Since they are both equally fast, the major difference finishing around the rim. GJ reads the post defense and either elevates or uses a nice touch floater to score a bucket.

All that said, there is no doubting Meech is better at playing within the offensive sytem, yet at what point will GJ catch up in the experience/maturity department and surpass Meech as a better PG? Also, its not a coincidence that Meech averaged 14 ppg and was 2nd team All-state in the same Texas state league where GJ Vilarino averaged 22 ppg and was 1st team All-state.

I really hope GJ sticks around, b/c I see significant PT next year and possibly starting PG by the time he's a JR. He'd be an excellent mentor for Gary Bell Jr. as well.

bigblahla
03-10-2010, 05:16 AM
a majorly +1....often asked here, never satisfactorily answered: how can the zags pull top drawer big men -- josh, sacre, harris, daye -- and miss repeatedly on pt guards. one wd think pgs are more readily avail than bigs at the mid major (did he say that?) level....

+1.

Birddog
03-10-2010, 05:21 AM
Considering GJ and Meech are both vertically challenged, Vilarino has shown flashes of a better floater to get it over taller players. while Meech is blocked/swatted 9 times outta 10. Meech and GJ are both slight of frame and getting hit, rattled, slammed on their way to the hoop, yet GJ has made these acrobatic shots at high clip and Meech cannot. While Meech is one of the toughest, most durable players I've ever seen, he is a below average finisher. In his limited minutes, GJ has shown he has this ability.

Since they are both equally fast, the major difference finishing around the rim. GJ reads the post defense and either elevates or uses a nice touch floater to score a bucket.

All that said, there is no doubting Meech is better at playing within the offensive sytem, yet at what point will GJ catch up in the experience/maturity department and surpass Meech as a better PG? Also, its not a coincidence that Meech averaged 14 ppg and was 2nd team All-state in the same Texas state league where GJ Vilarino averaged 22 ppg and was 1st team All-state.

Wow, all that insight derived from 7.8 mins a game, mostly in mop up duties.
I agree with parts of your assessment, but methinks you are extrapolating a bit too much. What do you think of Vilarino's defense?

Therunner
03-10-2010, 05:42 AM
What do you think of Vilarino's defense?

Haven't seen enough to comment. ;)

Meech will be the starter next season and deserves to be(we sometimes forget he's only a soph and will improve exponentially like Pargo did), yet I believe GJ has the higher ceiling on offensive production. His shoot has more arc, is more accurate on misses, his FT's are smooth, his ability to score around the rim is solid. While I don't have a large sample size to draw from, I've been watching bball a long time and can tell you GJ is the better "scorer" of the two.

Now, is GJ the "better overall player", most likely not, and the Coaches have already answered this question for us. Meech brings so much to the table, he doesn't need to score at a high rate this season.

However, after Bouldin graduates, there is no denying we need another guard to step up and replace the production(impossible to replace Bouldin as a player, but his offensive production needs to come from somewhere). This is precisely why the Coaches are looking for a JUCO-type guard who can provide an immediate impact next ytear. Maybe Meech hasn't shown us everything in his repertoire, yet GJ hasn't either.

Birddog
03-10-2010, 05:47 AM
I can agree with most of the above. If Meech is to have an exponential improvement, he'll have to become a 75% free throw shooter, a 40% 3 baller and develop a midrange jumper. I don't see that happening.

cjm720
03-10-2010, 06:20 AM
In my opinion, the one thing that would get GJ more playing time is not taking it to the rack and trying to score every time he's put in. We know he can do that, but so can Meech. We know he's fast, but so is Meech. Instead, if he showed true point guard skills: making everyone around him better when he's in, making smart decisions, passing the ball, and racking up assists, I see him getting more time on the floor. It's what the team is severely lacking. (outside of Matt, who just can't be relied on to do everything all the time)

But this is exactly where he has shown improvement and the point of the OP.

And let me add: the OP was intended to bring some optimism to the board yesterday and to give some props to a kid who expected to play much more than he has. And half the effing posts are about Meech and how this team will never go far in the tournament...WTF...effing makes me sick

Gonezagaga
03-10-2010, 06:34 AM
75zag said:

"I saw BobZ hint a few weeks ago that a GU guard would be transferring out."

dim4sum said:

Bouldin thanked his teammates, especially Meech, after his last game in the Kennel. It was a strange remark. What was he thanking him for---certainly not his mediocre play on the court?????



Just a question, but could it be possible that Meech has decided his best path into major professional sports would be to head back to football? I believe he would still have 3 years of eligibility left for football and he would be able to play right away.

alldaye
03-10-2010, 06:39 AM
Wow, all that insight derived from 7.8 mins a game, mostly in mop up duties.
I agree with parts of your assessment, but methinks you are extrapolating a bit too much. What do you think of Vilarino's defense?

Actually, I totally agree with his assessment. I love that tidbit about Gj being first team and Meech being 2nd. GJ has to start by the time they both graduate, but we'll see. Also, adding to his assessment, GJ seems to have better vision and passing, which I saw during midnight madness and the limited minutes he played

cjm720
03-10-2010, 07:13 AM
75zag said:

"I saw BobZ hint a few weeks ago that a GU guard would be transferring out."

dim4sum said:

Bouldin thanked his teammates, especially Meech, after his last game in the Kennel. It was a strange remark. What was he thanking him for---certainly not his mediocre play on the court?????

Just a question, but could it be possible that Meech has decided his best path into major professional sports would be to head back to football? I believe he would still have 3 years of eligibility left for football and he would be able to play right away.

Is this a Lost message forum (great show!)? I took it to mean that Bouldin and Meech were good friends...Meech, football over basketball at this stage in his career? Huh? Is Jacob good or evil (Lost reference)? LOL

U Zig, I Zag
03-10-2010, 07:24 AM
Actually, I totally agree with his assessment. I love that tidbit about Gj being first team and Meech being 2nd. GJ has to start by the time they both graduate, but we'll see. Also, adding to his assessment, GJ seems to have better vision and passing, which I saw during midnight madness and the limited minutes he played

Three players scan the floor when they are dribbling and can make the pass that a PG/G should make: Matt, GG and GJ.

Matt is the undisputed leader but otherwise I would play the quickest guy that's also a threat from deep: GJ.

People seem to forget that once the half-court offense starts Meech becomes less and less effective and there times when its 4 on 5 in favor of the D. They slack off of him so much...

The one thing that I am seeing more and more of is the Sacre to Meech play when Meech swings wide on the off-ball side and comes down low under the basket for a pass. That seems to be Meech's most effective halfcourt play and it also gives Rob passing confidence which is excellent.

WhitworthZAG
03-10-2010, 10:51 AM
Have heard that lack of playing time is because he has not picked up the offense very well. It has also been said that the coaches would not be shocked to see him going somewhere else after this year.

U Zig, I Zag
03-10-2010, 11:40 AM
Have heard that lack of playing time is because he has not picked up the offense very well. It has also been said that the coaches would not be shocked to see him going somewhere else after this year.

What offense? Lately it doesn't look like we run any at all. :(

I sure hope he doesn't leave. I think we need him.

alldaye
03-10-2010, 04:26 PM
Three players scan the floor when they are dribbling and can make the pass that a PG/G should make: Matt, GG and GJ.

Matt is the undisputed leader but otherwise I would play the quickest guy that's also a threat from deep: GJ.

People seem to forget that once the half-court offense starts Meech becomes less and less effective and there times when its 4 on 5 in favor of the D. They slack off of him so much...

The one thing that I am seeing more and more of is the Sacre to Meech play when Meech swings wide on the off-ball side and comes down low under the basket for a pass. That seems to be Meech's most effective halfcourt play and it also gives Rob passing confidence which is excellent.

Yep. Exactly.

RamZag
03-10-2010, 07:32 PM
With Manny out and his energy, why not somebody like GJ playing more minutes and giving us that energy. I think he can do it!

Zagsker
03-10-2010, 10:43 PM
What offense? Lately it doesn't look like we run any at all. :(

I sure hope he doesn't leave. I think we need him.

exactly!!! we don't

We really rely on our players just physically beating his opponent. Few runs great set plays outta timeouts and such..but during the flow of a game..we run: Big man set high pick for guard and run the pick-n-roll....thats it for the most part.

that is why when we struggle offensively it really looks bad...because we don't run any type of plays for the most part..atleast that is the way it looks.

The good thing is come tourney time we are going to be playing teams that have not physically played us numerous times in the season. There is a big difference between watching film/reading scout reports and actually guarding someone.....so the 3 or 4 set plays that we have in our playbook will be somewhat of a surprise to them:D

And what makes it seem more odd is the fact (like I said earlier) that Few calls GREAT plays outta timeouts.

And obvioulsy I am going a bit overboard with our lack of set-plays when the O is struggling....but only a bit

1973Zag
03-11-2010, 08:51 AM
The Sacre to Meech play works great as a surprise, but teams catch on leaving Meech underneath amongst the tree's. Hate to think our PG's best offensive threat is in the post! Meech plays harder, with more desire, than anyone; but a PG who is no threat from outside will not get you very far in the post season. Don't know the solution, but know 4 on 5 offensively doesn't seem to be working- would put Meech as an off the bench role player when his assets(speed,defense,transition) can be utilized. Sometimes speed doesn't help if you can't do anything when you get there.