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mnzag24
03-08-2010, 06:54 PM
If someone has time, I would love to know how many of st. Mary's 3s were because Harris got sucked down too far into the paint and left a shooter wide open. i dont care about the missed shots, but his perimeter defense was horrible and was one of the many reasons Allen and McConnell were wide open all night.

NEC26
03-08-2010, 06:55 PM
Agreed the guy is a force on offense but his defense has not been good all year.

Jedster
03-08-2010, 06:58 PM
+1. All night he was giving Allen way too much room on the perimeter and he made us pay. Not a good night for Elias or the team.

rawkmandale
03-08-2010, 07:03 PM
Am I right?

JAGzag
03-08-2010, 07:05 PM
We always seem to play well for a few games following a loss, so that should bode well for us this time of year! Really, no use picking apart every play in this game, not this late in the season. Let's hope everyone gets healthy ... and hungry.

The509sfinest
03-08-2010, 07:06 PM
He was open multiple times today but they just dont pass to him. Dont they know he is the best shooter on the team? To bad Mannys injured they have great chemistry together

TacomaZAG
03-08-2010, 07:17 PM
This is not rocket science, the ONLY way SMC has a chance to beat us is if they are able to knock down 3's...........So what happens, they make 10, most of them completely uncontested.

The other two games against SMC, we stopped the 3, why was today any different??? We kept Samhan in check but kept collapsing on the dribble drive, we took the bait. I can't believe we fell for the obvious, again.

Kiss Spokane goodbye, make plans for the 9:00 AM game in Tallahassee as an 8 or 9 seed.

This one really hurts, better get ready for a horrible draw in a horrible place (back east, most likely).

Go ZAGS

btzag
03-08-2010, 07:18 PM
The only two times I saw that was when Few was forced to put Kelly O in and someone else mistakenly passed the ball to KO and.... The kid is just flat out struggling and honestly should not make it off the bench. Making terrible decisions with the ball is what I saw and not freezing Kong out. In fact I think the rest of the team works very well with him but today the whole team, minus Gray and Sacre, was making bad decisions.

rawkmandale
03-08-2010, 07:18 PM
"4 games from here on out would be good."




Exactly!

ZagsObserver
03-08-2010, 07:24 PM
Well Goodson was pretty abysmal on defense as well in my opinion. On more than one occasion even the announcer pointed this out late in the game.

WallaWallaZag
03-08-2010, 07:28 PM
agree regarding meech...he has played some great defense this year but mickey m. absolutely abused him today. not sure why few didn't switch gray over to shut him down.

El Voce
03-08-2010, 07:30 PM
Our Zag team really, really needs the long break to clear their heads and heal up physically. I had a bad feeling about this game because our battle against LMU had been so physical, while the Pilots put up little resistance against SMC.

Matty B is banged up. We probably don't even know the half of it; good players hide injuries as best they can. Steven is banged up, and I doubt that Elias is 100% recovered from his big fall at USD.

I would guess that Coach Few will give the team a couple days of R & R this week. A lot of physical therapy will probably be going on, and Jen will be more than busy.

Then, it's back to business, and our Zags do respond very well after a loss. This team may even be more comfortable as a lower seed having to play far from home. I was never in love with the idea of the Zags playing in Spokane - they need to hone a nasty edge on the road.

I am hopeful that, by a week from Thursday, the Zags will be healed, physically and mentally.

It is still a great time to be a Zag.

alaskazagnut
03-08-2010, 07:30 PM
St Marys wanted it more. Period. We have serious motivation and intensity consistency problems. I hate to say that everyone who told me I was wrong was probably right. I should not hope or talk that we are good enough to win it all. All that does is set expectations that no one wants to have break. Cowardly but the easiest route. Now I have to eat crow and admit that its better to just to shut up, and not say and believe we are the best. Just watch and root. Why verbally raise my finger on the internet or to my friends like we are number one. We arent this year. St Marys is.

BTW I am tired of Mods giving neg feedback. If you disagree, tell us in posts NOT IN FEEDBACK!!

We have the skills and strength and the desire. But just not the same desire every game. This is why I think we need to appear to the media and the nation that we don't care if we beat everyone by 30 or 40. Why put in subs with 2 minutes left? That pissed me off. Teams have come back 15 down in 2 minutes. Why ever give up. That is the ONLY serious problem our team has, consistent killer instinct. I would take 60% FT's if they just didn't ever feel like it was unsportsmanlike to beat teams by 30 or 40. I want teams to feel intimidated and scared before they even set foot on the court with us. When we ease up and put in subs we habitually quit wether we are in the lead or we are losing. I want a 10 pt loss to be a moral victory for anyone who plays us. That is why I don't agree with coasting and experimenting in the WCC. We coast when we know it is not "do or die". That habit comes back to bite us when we least want it. A killer instinct is no mercy. no remorse, and no care or concern if we beat another team by 50.

I know people will say I am not supporting our Zags or that I am kicking them when they are down. But that is wrong and a lie because I will always support and be a TRUE LOYAL Zag.. I am just not happy we lost, I saw us lose a big game againfor the same reasons that I have been talking about for months (even years). We don't have a consistent killer instinct.

Nobody even bother to comment on this post. There is no way to change my mind because you will all hear the interviews by our staff and players that they have to come out and play every night and not take teams for granted. They know they didn't come out strong and that that is their problem they have to address for next year. The mental habits ones are the hardest to break. They do not have any time to change it this year. We just have to hope they bring 110% the next 2 games because they are what they are. 2nd in the WCC.

NovaZag
03-08-2010, 07:30 PM
You mean Jacksonville. We'll play Florida in Jacksonville in the first round, most likely. NCAA tourney committee will spot them 15 pts to start. And Sacre will be suspended for that lewd gesture toward Samhan. Bouldin will sit the games out--sore back, you know. Foul on Harris, Foul on Gray, send in the walk-ons, start the bus. Why even accept the tourney invite?

alldaye
03-08-2010, 07:31 PM
I'm more mad at Goodson, because he's supposed to be out there because of his defense. I feel like Harris giving up a couple 3's his a lot his fault, but also coaching. I don't understand why Gonzaga sags so much off 3 point shooters. Anyway, that was one of the worst refereed games I've seen this year, but we still played pretty poorly.

ZagLawGrad
03-08-2010, 07:36 PM
Our Zag team really, really needs the long break to clear their heads and heal up physically. I had a bad feeling about this game because our battle against LMU had been so physical, while the Pilots put up little resistance against SMC.

Matty B is banged up. We probably don't even know the half of it; good players hide injuries as best they can. Steven is banged up, and I doubt that Elias is 100% recovered from his big fall at USD.

I would guess that Coach Few will give the team a couple days of R & R this week. A lot of physical therapy will probably be going on, and Jen will be more than busy.

Then, it's back to business, and our Zags do respond very well after a loss. This team may even be more comfortable as a lower seed having to play far from home. I was never in love with the idea of the Zags playing in Spokane - they need to hone a nasty edge on the road.

I am hopeful that, by a week from Thursday, the Zags will be healed, physically and mentally.

It is still a great time to be a Zag.



Indeed. While not a good way to end the WCC season, the sun will come up tomorrow. My expectations for this team were not off the map like I had last year. The guys have fought all year and provided some entertaining basketball.

BSUBronco74
03-08-2010, 07:38 PM
That's just stupid. This game was the definition of a team loss.

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-08-2010, 07:40 PM
I thought Sacre played really well on D tonight.

The rest of the team was meh.

Once and Future Zag
03-08-2010, 07:42 PM
Blahblahblah
Nobody even bother to comment on this post. There is no way to change my mind . . . blahblahblah.

Fixed that for you.

alaskazagnut
03-08-2010, 07:51 PM
Fixed that for you.

Venting helps clear the soul.

Horned Frog
03-08-2010, 07:54 PM
Silly to lay this one on Harris. That's just stupid

No, actually it's obvious the loss is all due to Harris!

Harris didn't give us squat tonight!

Boo, Harris!

I say we bench Neil Patrick Harris!

http://l.yimg.com/l/tv/us/img/site/61/61/0000036161_20061130163505.jpg
Oh, you meant Elias Harris? ...Never mind.

alaskazagnut
03-08-2010, 07:55 PM
Indeed. While not a good way to end the WCC season, the sun will come up tomorrow. My expectations for this team were not off the map like I had last year. The guys have fought all year and provided some entertaining basketball.


My expectations were off the map. And I said so publicly and often right here. Now I have to say everyone else was right. I was wrong to think/say we can win it all and demand 110% every night.

Go Zags!!! Just make it to the sweet 16 and pray there's something left to get all the cylinders clicking at the same time. We had it in Maui and we can get it again.

ZagLawGrad
03-08-2010, 07:55 PM
Venting helps clear the soul.

Definitely feeling your passion from that post AZN. Better though to lower the expectations for now and see where the ride ends up. We're still a small school swimming with some very big fishes in a very big sea.

GrizZAG
03-08-2010, 07:58 PM
Ok, this one hurt. Here is what I saw from the TV.

Zags tried to pound inside all night to Sacre to post up against the WCC Defensive player of the year. RS did amazingly well, but there were too many forced situations and he didn't dish to the perimeter when he had low percentage opportunities. I think that was by design from Few knowing he had injured shooters.

I saw wide open Zag permimeter shooters several times when Sacre was slammin and bangin underneath. See Kong wide open over there?

I saw absolutely crappy officiating tonight.

I believe Gray has a very sore arm and elbow and was not going to try to shoot the three and they knew it. Matt is clearly playing hurt and perhaps so is Harris from that big fall a while ago. Notice we have not seen the Elias of early season since.

We have problems and did the best we could with the mess we have on our hands. Samhan proved he has not grown up yet and is still the same old jerk he always has been. I want to be gracious and congratulate this team that beat a better team but would rather kiss a rat.

Horned Frog
03-08-2010, 08:03 PM
RS did amazingly well, but there were too many forced situations and he didn't dish to the perimeter when he had low percentage opportunities.

I saw wide open Zag permimeter shooters several times when Sacre was slammin and bangin underneath. See Kong wide open over there?

I saw absolutely crappy officiating tonight.

I believe Gray has a very sore arm and elbow and was not going to try to shoot the three and they knew it. Matt is clearly playing hurt and perhaps so is Harris from that big fall a while ago. Notice we have not seen the Elias of early season since.

Samhan proved he has not grown up yet and is still the same old jerk he always has been. I want to be gracious and congratulate this team that beat a better team but would rather kiss a rat.

Couldn't agree more with all these above. When Samhan ran down the sideline after drawing the charge, I almost lost it.

adoptedzag
03-08-2010, 08:03 PM
Indeed. While not a good way to end the WCC season, the sun will come up tomorrow. My expectations for this team were not off the map like I had last year. The guys have fought all year and provided some entertaining basketball.

OMG!!! What if the sun doesn't come up tomorrow?!??!?!?!:confused:

Rbo
03-08-2010, 08:19 PM
I thought Sacre played really well on D tonight.

The rest of the team was meh.

I'm guessing meh means mediocre, and I agree. And Sacre got my D player of the game. I won't say anything else, because it would be too negative.

FuManShoes
03-08-2010, 08:34 PM
You mean Jacksonville. We'll play Florida in Jacksonville in the first round, most likely. NCAA tourney committee will spot them 15 pts to start. And Sacre will be suspended for that lewd gesture toward Samhan. Bouldin will sit the games out--sore back, you know. Foul on Harris, Foul on Gray, send in the walk-ons, start the bus. Why even accept the tourney invite?

Finally, someone who gets it! Far better to sit home than face a challenging draw. This is what I've been saying to all the speculation about this bracketology draw being good and that one being bad. Our Zags are a fraud of a team. Those 26 wins? An illusion. If they dare accept an at large in the dance they will be EXPOSED and HUMILIATED, like Carrie on Prom Night! I hear the CIT puts on a hell of a tourney. We should try something new, if they'll even have us.

jim77
03-09-2010, 12:41 AM
Sure the defense got torched more than a few times but, dribbling into double coverage and forcing a shot isn't gonna get it done. Don't relie on the ref to bail you out of a stupid play either....it looked kinda like 5th grade basketball at times on offense. Fact is, we've been winning with 1 on 1 ball....we relie too much on our athletes and not enough on screens and passing. I've got more bad news too...80% of the teams in the dance can match our athletics so we better learn to play team ball on offense...just go watch ST Mary's on the film and you will see what slow/half as athletic guys can do when they play team ball. Thanks for the clinic Gaels. The execution isn't there...it wasn't there last night either.....its like this team has gotten worse on offense since the season started. The Zags have got 9 days to figure it out or its gonna be a quiet first round exit....

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-09-2010, 02:41 AM
Randy Bennett's team made a lot of good defensive adjustments to get ready for this game. They are usually a very good offensive team and an average defensive team. For the championship, they brought a level of defensive intensity that I had never seen from a St. Mary's team. They were very physical on defense. The refs let them get away with it a lot of contact, but they took full advantage of the way the game was being played. They double-teamed everybody who was a threat to score. They trapped well and forced Gonzaga players into bad passes and bad shots.

If they can play that well on both sides of the ball, they will win at least one game in the tournament and might last into the second week-end. They are a much better team than they were at mid-season.

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-09-2010, 04:23 AM
It is still clear Bol does not know the offense, and the kid has some obvious attitude issues. Definitely the black sheep of the team.

Way out of line pal

ZagLawGrad
03-09-2010, 07:06 AM
It obvious he does not know the offense, its obvious they wont give him the ball, and its obvious the guys do not like him. Why do you think he got benched at the beginning of the year? He was not hurt. Why not let him suit up? All I have been told from guys on the team is that everyone gets along well except BK, and that he throws bows in practice. Saw the bandage on GJ's face myself.

I haven't seen this year what some others apparently see of him on the court. He's got a long ways to go. Big upside, but his mistakes and inconsistency negate a lot of the positives. It will be interesting to see how he develops in the future.

deathchina
03-09-2010, 07:17 AM
"All I have been told from guys on the team is that everyone gets along well except BK, and that he throws bows in practice. Saw the bandage on GJ's face myself."

I'm not saying this isn't true because i have no idea if it is or not...But who freakin cares? Honestly? Even if they DON'T like him it doesn't matter. They just have to respect him. As I recall a certain Christian Laettner was despised by his Duke teammates. Jordan was more FEARED than liked. Kevin Garnett has punched our teammates for dunking on him. I could go on and on and on. Elbows in practice? So?

Not to compare BOl to those three greats but....

Looks like Manny and Bol get along just fine.

gamagin
03-09-2010, 07:23 AM
The only two times I saw that was when Few was forced to put Kelly O in and someone else mistakenly passed the ball to KO and.... The kid is just flat out struggling and honestly should not make it off the bench. Making terrible decisions with the ball is what I saw and not freezing Kong out. In fact I think the rest of the team works very well with him but today the whole team, minus Gray and Sacre, was making bad decisions.

KO had perhaps his best game as a freshman. And he's had his klunkers, but this wasn't one of them. re Kong: I, too, wondered why all the Zags weren't trying to get it to him to see if he had a hot hand. We'll never know. Kong, too, imo, passed up chances to shoot too often.

gamagin
03-09-2010, 07:30 AM
it would have been for our guys to discuss and then start reacting to the bread and butter play(s) SMC worked to the point of our endless pain: drive and dish.

After about the 5th or 10th kickout, we, it seems to me, should have been ready for that kickout, which many times was delivered while the Gael was in the air, and had no other option BUT to dish, or travel.

We seemed frozen in the moment, mesmerized, time after time, when we "could" have, instead, disrupted the play by realizing what play was unfolding and reacting appropriately with a block or an interception.

We just couldn't get into that rythmn and SMC ran it relentlessly, and, of course, the shooters waiting downtown launched their missiles with uncanny precision. In other words it took about three normally dangerous or risky moves just to get the ball to the shooter yet they STILL got the brass ring at the end.

It was like watching a fb team run the statue of liberty 50 times. We should have adjusted way early on. It was predictable after about the third time.

ANd the shooters made too many of those shots. Over and over. At a clip three times better than they normally have all year. That's focus. And luck.

U Zig, I Zag
03-09-2010, 07:47 AM
Since we couldn't magically not be hurt and we couldn't pause the game and ask for some Ref changes I will say this:

We got sucker punched a bit but everything that happened was heightened/exaggerated by the injuries. We just didn't look right.

I am not sure about Bol and his attitude. I don't know the situation, only what I see on the court. I would say that at best he finds his place and then plays a little timid. At worst he looks like he is lost out there. He got an And 1 on Sunday night and showed a bunch of emotion (for him) and got fives and pats on the back as he went to the line. The chemistry may not be perfect but it doesn't look detrimental.

If I was Few I would have changed it up at the 4:30 minute mark. What was going on was not working. Put in different blood and pull some plays from the back pocket. We have superior athletes, even coming off the bench. Not saying streetball time, but when GJ got in there it was apparent he was twice as fast as the gassed players out there previous. He got to the rim and at least made something happen. When KO got that look he bombed away. Perfect - make or miss. These kids are ballers, sometimes you gotta shoot from the hip and go for it. Our primary weapons were out of ammo for a good part of the game. Pull the weapons off the bench.

There was a moment when we were just passing it around with no zip or anything and then Gray would take a forced shot - I actually started wishing for that senseless three-man top of the key weave that we used to do. At least something would come of that on occasion.

We need to heal up and come up with a different strategy for whomever we face. Always proud of these guys - they played hurt and took a beating. Time to look forward.

Rbo
03-09-2010, 07:52 AM
Here's an interesting stat. Comined, McConnell and Allen shot 18 of 28 from the field for St. Mary's. The entire Zag team shot 21 of 44 from the field. I'm not pointing fingers at any particular Zag defender(s), but I've never seen a Christmas tree lit up so bright.

zagfan1
03-09-2010, 08:25 AM
Could we see teams in the NCAA tournament using the same approach in planning against the Zags?

The Zags looked confused and out of synch. Especially Elias Harris.

gamagin
03-09-2010, 10:35 AM
It obvious he does not know the offense, its obvious they wont give him the ball, and its obvious the guys do not like him. Why do you think he got benched at the beginning of the year? He was not hurt. Why not let him suit up? All I have been told from guys on the team is that everyone gets along well except BK, and that he throws bows in practice. Saw the bandage on GJ's face myself.

say? You make alot of accusations here. Any way you can back any of them up ? What you seem to treat as common knowledge is not common as far as I can tell.

I have not heard any of these things before. I can say Few has said he has benched BK numerous times because when he got in he missed his shot(s). Few said when a sub comes in he is expected to do what he is sent in to do. Or he sits.

thanks,

jpwils
03-09-2010, 10:54 AM
Tough to beat a tough team 3 times.

Combination of thins, really...good game execution by SMC, lites out shooting by their previously somewhat challenged players, injuries, loss of Arop meant one lock down defender missing, momentum loss for Zags at start, somewhat puzzling coaching,etc. Result was perfect storm for SMC to dominate and get bid to Dance.

We should be somewhat better for Big Dance...liked what I saw from KO and Kong....concerned about PG productivity but has been a challenge all year....
I also remember how Meech won a game for us last year, so here's to repeating that performance!

jim77
03-09-2010, 11:19 AM
Since we couldn't magically not be hurt and we couldn't pause the game and ask for some Ref changes I will say this:

We got sucker punched a bit but everything that happened was heightened/exaggerated by the injuries. We just didn't look right.

I am not sure about Bol and his attitude. I don't know the situation, only what I see on the court. I would say that at best he finds his place and then plays a little timid. At worst he looks like he is lost out there. He got an And 1 on Sunday night and showed a bunch of emotion (for him) and got fives and pats on the back as he went to the line. The chemistry may not be perfect but it doesn't look detrimental.

If I was Few I would have changed it up at the 4:30 minute mark. What was going on was not working. Put in different blood and pull some plays from the back pocket. We have superior athletes, even coming off the bench. Not saying streetball time, but when GJ got in there it was apparent he was twice as fast as the gassed players out there previous. He got to the rim and at least made something happen. When KO got that look he bombed away. Perfect - make or miss. These kids are ballers, sometimes you gotta shoot from the hip and go for it. Our primary weapons were out of ammo for a good part of the game. Pull the weapons off the bench.

There was a moment when we were just passing it around with no zip or anything and then Gray would take a forced shot - I actually started wishing for that senseless three-man top of the key weave that we used to do. At least something would come of that on occasion.

We need to heal up and come up with a different strategy for whomever we face. Always proud of these guys - they played hurt and took a beating. Time to look forward.

Hell, I'll take the 3 man weave over the 5 man statue any day of the week. It wasn't just RS dribbling in to traffic either..the whole friggen team was doing it. You are right about GJ slashing through them....now that was the best the offense looked all night. The coached should have put the bench in earlier to give the startrers a chance "gain sight" on what the heck they were doing. Did you notice how many times Samhan came out and screened for their guards???? I chope a couple bottom dwellers from the bcs conferences don't win the conference tourney as it could get interesting. We flunked the eye test.

cjm720
03-09-2010, 11:32 AM
Problem with Bol in the system is he is settling to much on the perimeter for shots and refuses to run through on screens. If you look and what they run for matty and gray, specifically the curls off the downs screens, they do not do the same for Kong. It is still clear Bol does not know the offense, and the kid has some obvious attitude issues. Definitely the black sheep of the team.

I kind of want to punch you in the face but that wouldn't be nice. How could you possibly come to this conclusion. Another reason I hate this board after a game...

WTF??? :confused:

lothar98zag
03-09-2010, 11:59 AM
Someone actually gave you permission to say this?

bballbeachbum
03-09-2010, 12:00 PM
That little stretch where KO went down the lane and the next few plays hit the jumper was what I am hoping for in the future. Secondly, Gj has been playing well in his minutes, I appreciate his ability to get into the paint. To me he seems like a better finisher than meech, but granted less of a sample size. On regards to Bol, the kid has talent, obviously lacks athleticism, but has a sweet offensive game. I believed you could see that the Santa Clara game where he played basically the last half of the game. Looked good getting into the lane, and has good touch.

And its not always common knowledge issues about team chemistry. I will acknowledge that criticism of my comments. All I can say without revealing myself, is that I have an intimate knowledge of what happens between the guys on campus from a personal basis, not from anyone else. I hear things from practice and I hear things from saturday nights. The kid has attitude issues and struggles with his teammates, that is all I'm at liberty to say.

well, that's plenty of liberty already, don't you agree? Along with Matt is hurt, Steven is hurt, Manny is out, and the always brilliant shots at Coach Few, there is now Bol is a _______.

wow

EDIT: this board is crazy