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MEZAG
03-04-2010, 12:30 AM
Anyone recently re-watched games where E was dominating? I really think that fall on his back, can't remember exactly which game that was (at SC maybe) was a bigger injury than any of us know. His explosive athleticism has been downgraded drastically. I re-watched some highlights from the first GU V SMC game and his play is drastically less athletic lately.

Some have said that teams have just figured out how to defend him but I beg to differ. That guy was impossible to defend during some of the earlier games.

alaskazagnut
03-04-2010, 12:57 AM
Anyone recently re-watched games where E was dominating? I really think that fall on his back, can't remember exactly which game that was (at SC maybe) was a bigger injury than any of us know. His explosive athleticism has been downgraded drastically. I re-watched some highlights from the first GU V SMC game and his play is drastically less athletic lately.

Some have said that teams have just figured out how to defend him but I beg to differ. That guy was impossible to defend during some of the earlier games.

You are saying you think his little slump is the cause of an "injury" from the fall?

It is possible to be sure but I doubt it. Why make excuses for Harris's tiny slump, some heavy defensive pressure, and slightly cold shooting? His slightly poorer play coincides with several other players statistical slumps too.

I think the team slumped because of playing weaker teams, and that creates a complacence and over confidence that even Harris is affected by. It seems like it happens this time every year when we get the best of the WCC teams and all the fans and all the media tell them they should win by 28 points. They have pressure from school, girls, TV interviews and media. This happens every year.

Maybe in his mind he is toning it down because he knows he is bolting for he NBA? Maybe he is injured and lying to the team doctor to play. Maybe they are letting him play with a serious injury even though it is hurting him.

I don't think the fall has anything to do with it except maybe he will remember it.

MEZAG
03-04-2010, 01:42 AM
You are saying you think his little slump is the cause of an "injury" from the fall?

It is possible to be sure but I doubt it. Why make excuses for Harris's tiny slump, some heavy defensive pressure, and slightly cold shooting? His slightly poorer play coincides with several other players statistical slumps too.

I think the team slumped because of playing weaker teams, and that creates a complacence and over confidence that even Harris is affected by. It seems like it happens this time every year when we get the best of the WCC teams and all the fans and all the media tell them they should win by 28 points. They have pressure from school, girls, TV interviews and media. This happens every year.

Maybe in his mind he is toning it down because he knows he is bolting for he NBA? Maybe he is injured and lying to the team doctor to play. Maybe they are letting him play with a serious injury even though it is hurting him.

I don't think the fall has anything to do with it except maybe he will remember it.

WOW. Interesting opinion.

2011Zag
03-04-2010, 02:13 AM
Or maybe he is just a freshman...

Zag79
03-04-2010, 03:02 AM
:lmao: E, or elias has had a phenomenal year regardless of anything posted. a freshman who is shooting 55% from the field, 45% from three (better than bouldin, gray, kong, etc.), grabbing 7.4 rebounds a game, and putting in 15 points a game (second only to matt) is doing it big. alley oops, monster dunks, game winners... he has slowed a little bit but nothing i would even talk about really. defenses are keying on him too now, and hes still getting double doubles. anyway, back to sportscenter. :D

titopoet
03-04-2010, 05:27 AM
Yes, I remembered the fall. It was in the second half of the game at San Diego. I mentioned this before, his explosive jumping does not seem to be the same. It could be because of injury or apprehension. I don't think it is a serious injury, and players constantly play through those types of injuries. I know by watching Matt, his wrist is sore and has been throughout most of the season. While it looks like they are playing through the injuries, it does effect their play.

Now this isn't an excuse for his slump, just observation. Before his fall, he was doing ESPN highlight dunks with two men hanging on him. (SMC game) After his fall, not as much, and I have caught some more pained expressions. Before his fall, he could beat double teams, even against better talent than at most WCC teams, think how he owned Illinois even as they tried to double and triple him. He has still been effective and has developed a higher Basketball IQ because of it. And also a good sign is that he is starting to come out of it, the last few games he is starting to show the earlier explosiveness. It bodes well for the NCAAs as he might be 100% by then and with the long lay off between the end of the WCC tourney and the start of the NCAA, he could be back to dominating.

Finally, having had a similar back soreness myself, it does take awhile to recover from a deep back bruise like he most certainly had. Plus, he had to recover while still playing would delay recovery. All in all, he is a tough kid.

SunDevilGolfZag
03-04-2010, 05:37 AM
Seems like a phantom blog board issue to me. When the opportunities are there he looks no less athletic or explosive to me. He can't take what defensive schemes won't allow him. I hope this is just imagination

LongIslandZagFan
03-04-2010, 06:26 AM
I think his slump is directly related to Few, the coaches and heck the team not being committed to winning the national championship. I think their focus on just winning the WCC and just wanting to make the NCAA tourney infected Harris mid-season and his whole game went to crap. He needs to leave after this year or he will never play at the next level.

seasontixholder
03-04-2010, 06:50 AM
Thoughtful post, OP. Something to consider.

Once and Future Zag
03-04-2010, 06:51 AM
I think his slump is directly related to Few, the coaches and heck the team not being committed to winning the national championship. I think their focus on just winning the WCC and just wanting to make the NCAA tourney infected Harris mid-season and his whole game went to crap. He needs to leave after this year or he will never play at the next level.

'strue

The Staff failed to call me up this morning to tell me he wanted to win a national championship.

He just doesn't care about winning one at all.

NotoriousZ
03-04-2010, 06:54 AM
I think his slump is directly related to Few, the coaches and heck the team not being committed to winning the national championship. I think their focus on just winning the WCC and just wanting to make the NCAA tourney infected Harris mid-season and his whole game went to crap. He needs to leave after this year or he will never play at the next level.

:lmao: Excellent LI.

But seriously, if an injury is slowing him down a little, he'll have 10 days to rest up after Vegas.

LongIslandZagFan
03-04-2010, 07:27 AM
Thoughtful post, OP. Something to consider.

+1

My sarcasm on the other post aside... I think it may have had some impact on his game. Players always play with some pain from the injuries that gain during the season. But I also think teams adjusted to him as well.

zag944
03-04-2010, 08:05 AM
Elias was obviously ready much faster than the other freshman. There was also a much more significant gap between pretty much all the starters and their reserves.

His minutes have changed very significantly since, say the beginning of Febuary. Harris has only played more than 30 minutes in just one game since then...but he played more than that probably half the games that were before Febuary.

Kelly, Foster, etc have really started to understand their roles and are being rewarded for their work. If it wasnt a slight dip in Harris' production, it would be two dozen "WHY ISNT (INSERT PLAYER) GETTING MORE MINUTES!!!" topics a week.

webspinnre
03-04-2010, 08:07 AM
Thing is, freshmen pretty much always experience dips in performance at some point. Its just a fact of life.

MDABE80
03-04-2010, 08:13 AM
Well.........sarcasm aside, Elias (it took me some time to figure out who "E" was) hasn't been himself the past several games. It's a decent question IMO. THe answers are not forthcoming because nobody knows but him. Whether it's the NBA crap that's gotten inside his head, some proposed injury, etc...who knows?

Noticeable dropoff though. Perhaps it's that he was playing like an AA Senior and has now settled into a very sold Jr's role...I don't know. Watching him on the court though, he doesn't looked impaired. He has the same speed, runs the same, still leaps like a gazelle, etc. Something's different though....could be just as simple as this: he shocked us with his tools for 3/4 of a season and now that he's been noticed by the opponents via performance and media he's guarded differently in defensive schemes.

gamagin
03-04-2010, 08:21 AM
having to adjust to the fact that he wasn't going to continue bounding about without serious challenges, especially the second time around vs. the same teams.

His shots are a little tighter, his drives a little more cautious, and his wreckless abandon style has been dialed back. The back crash was likely a wake up call, but what I see from that point on is a wiser EH and better game planning by our opponents.

He is playing, wisely, imo, as if he is going to get attacked. So he has to learn to play that way and regain his effectiveness.

One thing that has come back to haunt EH, imo, is his tendency to bring the ball way back behind his head before shooting a jumpshot up close. earlier in the season this "hang time" move gave him an open look and an easy shot.

The next time around, there was the usual fellow (or 2) in front of him, but along came a shorter, second guy, waiting or running up behind him to block his shot by exploiting his vulnerable shooting style. Good coaching, imo.

Same with his drives. It's a form of respect by his foes, but it's also a dose of reality he is in the process of learning to deal with, including changing shots and being less predictable, imo. And not getting killed.

Now, how to relax and do that will take time, which he has and which is why, among other things, he came to GU and plans to stay until all the wrinkles in his complete game are ironed out.

VinnyZag
03-04-2010, 08:28 AM
GU's coaches are never forthcoming with injury news. Not saying that's wrong, it's just a fact. They don't talk about the severity of injuries (recent examples are Gray last year and Heytvelt the year before that, also Stepp in his senior year). So, it could be that Harris is more banged up than we know.

Also, refs are not letting him get away with things he got away with at the start of the year. His hop-skip-and-a-jump move is getting called as traveling now (and, let's be honest, legitimately so). And he's not getting foul calls when he jumps into guys.

Colbyspapa
03-04-2010, 08:47 AM
Elias played the entire semi pro season, the national team tournaments, then the Zag season with all the travel. He is beat up and needs the next 6 days to rest. Probably needs two weeks before his legs will be great. 20 year old men aren't used to 70+ game seasons which is what he is working on.

LongIslandZagFan
03-04-2010, 09:00 AM
Elias played the entire semi pro season, the national team tournaments, then the Zag season with all the travel. He is beat up and needs the next 6 days to rest. Probably needs two weeks before his legs will be great. 20 year old men aren't used to 70+ game seasons which is what he is working on.

Plausible as well.

IMHO, I think it is likely a combination of all things. Wear and tear, volume of play since last summer, and other teams figuring him out.

gamagin
03-04-2010, 09:04 AM
Elias played the entire semi pro season, the national team tournaments, then the Zag season with all the travel. He is beat up and needs the next 6 days to rest. Probably needs two weeks before his legs will be great. 20 year old men aren't used to 70+ game seasons which is what he is working on.

for e.g. EH has one of the strongest upper body shots I have ever seen on a Zag. He always seems to be able to get the ball up to the rim, no matter how many opponents are hacking away, grabbing him and trying to stop himn. That takes tremendous energy and strength, and a strong back, too, imo. If RS could get this down, he'd be good for 30 ppg, and RS only needs to do this for a foot or two many times.

EH is doing it while in the air, attempting to complete a short jumper, or lay in, THEN finishing by forcing or willing the ball up after the hacks and as often as not, making the shot. Very strong.

also for e.g., his body language, and the motion when he is shooting show no signs of pain. He throws alot of english into his shots and that hasn't changed one iota. I have looked for twitching or favoring one side over another since the crash every game. None.

also for e.g., I took some grand kids to the game USF and stayed after so they could get autographs. One of those available for autographs was EH. He reached up, even jumped up to take a pencil & paper from a kid, smiled and stood patiently for numerous photos for several minutes, then walked across the floor towards the Foley library and out the door. I watched him closely to see if there were any signs of discomfort. there were none. and when he walked, it was effortless, joking and answering kids questions. In fact, if you didn't know it, you'd have no idea he just had a big workout and likely took several shots all over that muscular body. Conversely, MB looks to me at times like his feet (or an ankle) hurts. and he wears what look like (plastic) brass knuckles on his shooting hand, I guess to keep his fingers from further spreading apart should he fall or jam his wrist again. stuff like that.

Therunner
03-04-2010, 01:00 PM
Also, refs are not letting him get away with things he got away with at the start of the year. His hop-skip-and-a-jump move is getting called as traveling now (and, let's be honest, legitimately so). And he's not getting foul calls when he jumps into guys.

Good call, Vinny.

When Elias wasn't getting called for his patented skip-to-my-lou move to the hoop, he was nearly impossible to stop and made the layup everytime. Ever since the refs have made a point or statement to whistle him for travelling, he's been somewhat hesitant, even apprehensive, when driving to the rim. The extra half-step allowed him to open things up vs bigger players or double teams in the past. Whether we like it or not, he's just not as confident without his signature drop, hop, and step layup and being forced out of his comfort zone.

lothar98zag
03-04-2010, 02:25 PM
Whatever the case for the "slump" (and there are a lot of good theories in this thread) it would definitely help GU if the @Illinois/@Portland/@SMC Harris returned to the court for a few weeks.





Also, however bad EH's back injury was/is it can't be worse than when Evan Turner "broke" his back earlier this year. And Turner is playing "OK" recently...

007Zag
03-04-2010, 03:05 PM
:lmao: Excellent LI.

But seriously, if an injury is slowing him down a little, he'll have 10 days to rest up after Vegas.


Heck, he'll have had 5 before the WCC starts.

alaskazagnut
03-04-2010, 09:26 PM
Maybe in his mind he is toning it down because he knows he is bolting for he NBA? Maybe he is injured and lying to the team doctor to play. Maybe they are letting him play with a serious injury even though it is hurting him.

are total sarcasm. My bad for mixing it in with my honest opinion. Seriously.

I need to be more clear with emoticons or something because I am upsetting a "higher up" who blindly reacts against critical or forward thinking, ideas.

Reborn
03-05-2010, 06:19 AM
My biggest concern about Elias has been his tendency to get into early foul trouble by picking up stupid fouls. He is also NOT a good defensive player which DOES often hurt us. I don't really think he will have a problem getting his average on offense. He is adjusting to the changes that opponents are using against him. I thought he had a very good game against USF, but again all in the second half.

I also have concerns about Matt's health. His game has been down lately, more than Harris's. HIs shot did look better in the last game though. I think the guys need rest, and this layoff couldn't have come at a better time.

MickMick
03-05-2010, 06:30 AM
How many games has he played this year (including those in Germany)? How long has he been in a well organized conditioning program? He is, afterall, a freshman and freshman commonly hit late season "walls". A wall that typically does not include the extended "season" that Harris had.

His play has been outstanding throughout. People just expect him to play like he did at Moraga every night.

The teams the Zags have been playing are conference opponents. They had already scouted Harris twice and played against him once. Their game plan is probably refined by now.

Zags seem to be going back to Sacre inside. They were doing this earlier in the season, got away from it by going to Harris, and now are back to the early season strategy of feeding Sacre for inside scoring.


I believe all of these carry much more weight than "the fall".

One thing I absolutely believe. If he doesn't get ejected against Wake, the Zags win that game. He is a huge difference maker for the team.

LongIslandZagFan
03-05-2010, 07:36 AM
are total sarcasm. My bad for mixing it in with my honest opinion. Seriously.

I need to be more clear with emoticons or something because I am upsetting a "higher up" who blindly reacts against critical or forward thinking, ideas.

I have nothing against criticism and forward thinking on this board. But to keep coming back to the lack of "proper goals" argument over and over again is just plain silly. As you said in your PM to me... it is about sharing opinions... my opinion is that your "forward thinking criticism" is dead wrong out of the gate.

GonzagaSwagga
03-05-2010, 07:41 AM
Also, however bad EH's back injury was/is it can't be worse than when Evan Turner "broke" his back earlier this year. And Turner is playing "OK" recently...
Haha, yeah. Turner is "OK" I guess ;)