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AzZag
03-03-2010, 08:53 AM
sigh.....sadly, I was....
:mad:

I still thought The Beasta was fouled...but it shouldn't have gotten to that...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/13003180/march-madness-games-of-the-decade-gonzagaucla-at-no-2?tag=coverlist_active;coverlist_photo

Pleasant Peninsula
03-03-2010, 09:16 AM
Blaming it on the foul is silly. JP had the best free throw shooter in college basketball history wide open and decided to wait until he was double teamed to do anything with it.

GonzagaSwagga
03-03-2010, 09:25 AM
Blaming it on the foul is silly. JP had the best free throw shooter in college basketball history wide open and decided to wait until he was double teamed to do anything with it.
Absolute truth. I prefer to not think about it.

AzZag
03-03-2010, 10:05 AM
Blaming it on the foul is silly. JP had the best free throw shooter in college basketball history wide open and decided to wait until he was double teamed to do anything with it.

ok........wow....I just said I thought he was fouled...that's it...we are all one right? :confused:

LongIslandZagFan
03-03-2010, 12:07 PM
Fouls (not saying there was or wasn't) and tears on the court aside... what I find odd is that GU-Zona 2OT game isn't listed to this point. Not sure it would be considered #1 outside of Zona and Zag fans... but.....

webspinnre
03-03-2010, 12:09 PM
Fouls (not saying there was or wasn't) and tears on the court aside... what I find odd is that GU-Zona 2OT game isn't listed to this point. Not sure it would be considered #1 outside of Zona and Zag fans... but.....

Yeah, I certainly would've expected it on the list. Might hurt it a bit given that it was only 2nd round I guess.

HOOTER
03-03-2010, 12:26 PM
That was truly awful. Thanks for the reminder. :(

Let's hope for a better outcome for the Zags in this years tourney.

alaskazagnut
03-03-2010, 03:29 PM
But the UCLA was the outcome of one of the biggest Zag weaknesses and faults, IMO. To ease up and manage the clock when we have big leads.

This started happening at the 7 minute mark of the second half when we were up by 13. The team started walking upcourt and allowing UCLA to defend outright and we abandoned the style of game that was wining it for us. They never let down. We did. It wasn't Batista losing the ball, or Raivio's sloppy TO at the end. It was the group, from the coach on down, not playing for the kill, but just to protect the lead.

It is a mental habit the team often gets into when they are ahead. I hope Few breaks that habit in the coming years. But I am not seeing it this year. I still see clock management when we are ahead, I still see team intensity drop when we play inferior opponents and when we are ahead by more than 12 or 15.

This habit is cultivated over the course of a season or multiple seasons, and then it can't be stopped when we can't afford it. Thats why habits are hard to break, they surface when we least expect it and make our lives easier when things are looking good. But I still would like to see one full season of unrelenting pressure with a N.C. as a goal. The "streak" of WCC Championships or Tourney births will happen as a byproduct if we have a higher "eye on the prize" mentality.

People bash me for speaking up about a national championship but it seems like our entire community talks primarily of winning the conference to maintain "the streak" and not even believing or vocalizing to our program that "we believe" they can win it all. Whats wrong with upping the expectations? That is how everyone gets better as athletes, people and programs. Everyone. Set goals, achieve them, then set higher ones. Just because a kid graduates with straight A's in 6th grade doesn't mean parents should not support and demand hard work to finally get a college degree. Our program just graduated from college but I think we can get a PHD (an N.C). I believe we are stuck on the conference level goal just to maintain success. Conference victories and Sweet 16's will come automatically if we aim higher than that.

Sorry folks. IMO, the UCLA game is the quintessential game that shows our biggest glaring weakness. And it was a systematic habitformed team breakdown. Its exactly like Pavlovs classical conditioning law. Keep reinforcing the behavior and the dog will salivate even without getting food when a bell rings. Our "bell" is weak WCC teams and 10-15 point leads in the second half. We usually get a win when we slow down and protect the win. But tournament games are different and when the prize is another game, seasoned hardcore killers get to the final four and NC game not teams who are content with a sweet 16 or falling into a "tortoise and the hare" situations. Gonzaga is often the Hare when we are in the lead. Then we get caught napping and the tortoise wins. Worse yet, we always nap when we race the tortoise because we always win. Then, out of habit, we still take a nap when we race another hare!!!

I didn't bring up this sore subject!!!! But I did comment on it.

Just my opinion folks!!!!! I am willing to change it with evidence to the contrary. Don't just slander me and say I am crap. If you went to Gonzaga you would have taken logic and learned that personal attacks are a fallacy of logic. So keep it real. I love Few as much or more than most, but we as fans also have a duty to show our appreciation and loyalty but also to demand we all keep our nose to the grindstone.

CaZagAlum
03-03-2010, 05:35 PM
ugh...this is the second time this game has come up recently.

i still don't think i'm ready to talk about it...

+1

AzZag
03-03-2010, 08:44 PM
yeah, well....I was there, and to top it off after the game, my buddy and I got pulled over in our rental car by an Oakland motorcycle cop. He wrote me a $375 ticket for only having two passengers in a car pool lane on the Bay Bridge.
I had no clue you needed three or more.

That was the salt tearing into the wounds...:mad:

Das Zagger
03-03-2010, 10:21 PM
I was on a treadmill. I got on just after halftime and started watching, unaware that I was running, I think I went 10 miles by the time the game was over.

Zag79
03-03-2010, 11:19 PM
To ease up and manage the clock when we have big leads.

bingo. its a yearly issue, not a "this player or that players fault" reason. i have seen too many zag blowouts (or should be) turn into tightly contested battles and or terrible losses. the foot on the throat method doesnt seem to exist at GU as much as i would like to see it. obviously we are very successful, and i wouldnt want any coach BUT few leading us. just on the topic i do agree we dont close out as many big games as we should, and its not the players as much as some want to think. but enough with the ucla/texas tech talk. ugh.

cscz28
03-03-2010, 11:23 PM
I swear I developed some sort of amnesia about this game. After rewatching it now I can understand why. I feel sick as if it just happened all over again.

cscz28
03-03-2010, 11:34 PM
But the UCLA was the outcome of one of the biggest Zag weaknesses and faults, IMO. To ease up and manage the clock when we have big leads.

This started happening at the 7 minute mark of the second half when we were up by 13. The team started walking upcourt and allowing UCLA to defend outright and we abandoned the style of game that was wining it for us. They never let down. We did. It wasn't Batista losing the ball, or Raivio's sloppy TO at the end. It was the group, from the coach on down, not playing for the kill, but just to protect the lead.

It is a mental habit the team often gets into when they are ahead. I hope Few breaks that habit in the coming years. But I am not seeing it this year. I still see clock management when we are ahead, I still see team intensity drop when we play inferior opponents and when we are ahead by more than 12 or 15.

This habit is cultivated over the course of a season or multiple seasons, and then it can't be stopped when we can't afford it. Thats why habits are hard to break, they surface when we least expect it and make our lives easier when things are looking good. But I still would like to see one full season of unrelenting pressure with a N.C. as a goal. The "streak" of WCC Championships or Tourney births will happen as a byproduct if we have a higher "eye on the prize" mentality.

People bash me for speaking up about a national championship but it seems like our entire community talks primarily of winning the conference to maintain "the streak" and not even believing or vocalizing to our program that "we believe" they can win it all. Whats wrong with upping the expectations? That is how everyone gets better as athletes, people and programs. Everyone. Set goals, achieve them, then set higher ones. Just because a kid graduates with straight A's in 6th grade doesn't mean parents should not support and demand hard work to finally get a college degree. Our program just graduated from college but I think we can get a PHD (an N.C). I believe we are stuck on the conference level goal just to maintain success. Conference victories and Sweet 16's will come automatically if we aim higher than that.

Sorry folks. IMO, the UCLA game is the quintessential game that shows our biggest glaring weakness. And it was a systematic habitformed team breakdown. Its exactly like Pavlovs classical conditioning law. Keep reinforcing the behavior and the dog will salivate even without getting food when a bell rings. Our "bell" is weak WCC teams and 10-15 point leads in the second half. We usually get a win when we slow down and protect the win. But tournament games are different and when the prize is another game, seasoned hardcore killers get to the final four and NC game not teams who are content with a sweet 16 or falling into a "tortoise and the hare" situations. Gonzaga is often the Hare when we are in the lead. Then we get caught napping and the tortoise wins. Worse yet, we always nap when we race the tortoise because we always win. Then, out of habit, we still take a nap when we race another hare!!!

I didn't bring up this sore subject!!!! But I did comment on it.

Just my opinion folks!!!!! I am willing to change it with evidence to the contrary. Don't just slander me and say I am crap. If you went to Gonzaga you would have taken logic and learned that personal attacks are a fallacy of logic. So keep it real. I love Few as much or more than most, but we as fans also have a duty to show our appreciation and loyalty but also to demand we all keep our nose to the grindstone.

If everyone had the same "can-do" attitude as you the world would be a better place. Alas we are all resigned to mediocrity because we don't want it bad enough. It's amazing how much Few and Co. could learn from you and they don't even realize it. Thank god you're here to.............

sorry I can only take sarcasm so far before even I think I am being an idiot.

LongIslandZagFan
03-04-2010, 05:52 AM
But the UCLA was the outcome of one of the biggest Zag weaknesses and faults, IMO. To ease up and manage the clock when we have big leads.

This started happening at the 7 minute mark of the second half when we were up by 13. The team started walking upcourt and allowing UCLA to defend outright and we abandoned the style of game that was wining it for us. They never let down. We did. It wasn't Batista losing the ball, or Raivio's sloppy TO at the end. It was the group, from the coach on down, not playing for the kill, but just to protect the lead.

It is a mental habit the team often gets into when they are ahead. I hope Few breaks that habit in the coming years. But I am not seeing it this year. I still see clock management when we are ahead, I still see team intensity drop when we play inferior opponents and when we are ahead by more than 12 or 15.

This habit is cultivated over the course of a season or multiple seasons, and then it can't be stopped when we can't afford it. Thats why habits are hard to break, they surface when we least expect it and make our lives easier when things are looking good. But I still would like to see one full season of unrelenting pressure with a N.C. as a goal. The "streak" of WCC Championships or Tourney births will happen as a byproduct if we have a higher "eye on the prize" mentality.

People bash me for speaking up about a national championship but it seems like our entire community talks primarily of winning the conference to maintain "the streak" and not even believing or vocalizing to our program that "we believe" they can win it all. Whats wrong with upping the expectations? That is how everyone gets better as athletes, people and programs. Everyone. Set goals, achieve them, then set higher ones. Just because a kid graduates with straight A's in 6th grade doesn't mean parents should not support and demand hard work to finally get a college degree. Our program just graduated from college but I think we can get a PHD (an N.C). I believe we are stuck on the conference level goal just to maintain success. Conference victories and Sweet 16's will come automatically if we aim higher than that.

Sorry folks. IMO, the UCLA game is the quintessential game that shows our biggest glaring weakness. And it was a systematic habitformed team breakdown. Its exactly like Pavlovs classical conditioning law. Keep reinforcing the behavior and the dog will salivate even without getting food when a bell rings. Our "bell" is weak WCC teams and 10-15 point leads in the second half. We usually get a win when we slow down and protect the win. But tournament games are different and when the prize is another game, seasoned hardcore killers get to the final four and NC game not teams who are content with a sweet 16 or falling into a "tortoise and the hare" situations. Gonzaga is often the Hare when we are in the lead. Then we get caught napping and the tortoise wins. Worse yet, we always nap when we race the tortoise because we always win. Then, out of habit, we still take a nap when we race another hare!!!

I didn't bring up this sore subject!!!! But I did comment on it.

Just my opinion folks!!!!! I am willing to change it with evidence to the contrary. Don't just slander me and say I am crap. If you went to Gonzaga you would have taken logic and learned that personal attacks are a fallacy of logic. So keep it real. I love Few as much or more than most, but we as fans also have a duty to show our appreciation and loyalty but also to demand we all keep our nose to the grindstone.


Thanks Dr. Phil!!!! WOW!!! I never thought of it that way!!! YOU ROCK!!!

KOzag08
03-04-2010, 06:19 AM
I don't know why, by I clicked on the link, read the article, watched the video. And now I'm depressed. Worst feeling after a game ever

DADoZAG
03-04-2010, 06:20 AM
But the UCLA was the outcome of one of the biggest Zag weaknesses and faults, IMO. To ease up and manage the clock when we have big leads.



People bash me for speaking up about a national championship but it seems like our entire community talks primarily of winning the conference to maintain "the streak" and not even believing or vocalizing to our program that "we believe" they can win it all. Whats wrong with upping the expectations?

I can’t help but to post just one comment before I concede to Lothar and let this sit until the off season.

There can be no reasonable argument for ever encouraging a player to “ease up”, with that I will agree.

However, I respectfully disagree with the balance of your post, and again apologize if my previous posts were taken as "bashing."

IMO, the two biggest factors negatively impacting the success of any sports program are;
1. Expectations
2. Vocalizing Expectations

The two most important factors positively impacting any sports program, are, again IMO;
1. Consistency
2. Toughness

Now, it could be, AlaskaZagnut, that our opinions are nearly one in the same, but our communications are mired by terminology and/or interpretation (as can be found to be the case far too often in such discussions).

A conversation I’d love to be a part of after the first Monday in April, until then…

...I'm enjoying the journey.

Go ZAGS!

alaskazagnut
03-04-2010, 01:53 PM
Thanks Dr. Phil!!!! WOW!!! I never thought of it that way!!! YOU ROCK!!!

Next time you see an alaskazagnut post just skip it if you don't want differing opinions than yours. Why read my opinions if you only want to blurt out one liners with no substance? You have been here long enough to either agree or disgree. So if anyone refutes my opinion/belief then come up with evidence to the contrary.

I am using results and cross seasonal patterns of behavior I see during games. If you see something different then explain it.

If no one wants to understand the disgusting loss to UCLA then maybe we are doomed to repeat it. Some here like LIZF and cscz28 don't want discussion on the causes of the loss because they want to forget, don't like my conclusions or can't understand them so they resort to personal attacks. Most here would rather forget the UCLA game as an aberration, then address the real causes.

I'm not syaing Few hasn't addressed the issue or doesn't know about it. But obviously many here don't believe what happened with UCLA can happen again. Few has and is addressing it. Probably every day in some way.

But obviously there are some on this board who are still in denial. I think I wish I was in denial. Then I wouldn't have to have the UCLA game haunt me so much and realize so many want to just forget it.

lothar98zag
03-04-2010, 02:03 PM
But the UCLA was the outcome of one of the biggest Zag weaknesses and faults, IMO. To ease up and manage the clock when we have big leads.....

plz bump this or repost it on April 20th (or so). I'll try to add my 2 pennies at that time.



Regarding this UCLA game in Oakland people are talking about - I have ticket stubs from that game (a few rows back in the upper level, directly behind GU's 2nd half hoop), but I don't recall anything about it. weird...

zagsfanforlife
03-04-2010, 07:37 PM
Truly one of the saddest moments of my life

MDABE80
03-04-2010, 10:48 PM
We're not trying to avoid a FF or a Championship. Incumbent upon anyone who says that to prove it...not required or even thoughtful to say somebody must disprove this stupid thought. It's a ridiculous idea.... UCLA lost in every category...every category...except the final score. True it was a screw up and true we all had heartburn over the outcome. Kids tried hard though...just folded under the pressure. Few might have managed the clock differently...but this didn't lose an entire game. Silly thought to be honest...

alaskazagnut
03-04-2010, 11:21 PM
We're not trying to avoid a FF or a Championship. Incumbent upon anyone who says that to prove it...not required or even thoughtful to say somebody must disprove this stupid thought. It's a ridiculous idea... UCLA lost in every category...every category...except the final score. True it was a screw up and true we all had heartburn over the outcome. Kids tried hard though...just folded under the pressure. Few might have managed the clock differently...but this didn't lose an entire game. Silly thought to be honest...


True it was a screw up

How did they screw up?


(Kids) just folded under the pressure.

Did they fold? If so, why??


Few might have managed the clock differently.

How should Few have managed the clock differently?

I personally don't want our Zags to have to lose like that again, ever.

zagsmyboys
03-05-2010, 06:26 AM
Personally, I could have gone the rest of my life not having to watch that footage......It sucked.....And I think that none of us want to remember that, especially heading into March Madness......REALLY!!!!!!!!

siliconzag
03-05-2010, 06:31 AM
You cannot be accused of being a sycophant, but your "heretical" comments resonate with me. I was there, and I couldn't believe it, can't believe it still. Every time I see somebody with a UCLA shirt or hat or pass by the Oracle Arena, I have the irresistible urge to vomit.

GonzagaSwagga
03-05-2010, 07:03 AM
foot on the throat
I found myself saying this, out loud, during the majority of games this season. We don't have that killer mentality, and it makes me sad. I can see it in certain players (Elias, GJ), but overall the team always seems to adopt the northwest sports sense of complacency. The northwest has the kindest and most loyal fans, but that's not necessarily a good thing. East coast teams always win because east coast fan bases do not accept less. If you don't win over there then you don't have a job.

That being said, I can see Gonzaga moving in the right direction. We had some UCLA-type games this season (Illinois, Wake), but I feel good about the players that hopefully will be stepping up in the next couple of years. Elias, Meech, Arop, GJ; I think that's a good fiery core. Guys like Sacre, KO and GG I don't think have that killer mentality and intensity, but maybe they'll learn it.

I don't disagree with you for the most part, alaskazag, but I am genuinely pleased when I look at how far we've come in the past decade. Expectations ARE rising. Maybe they haven't gone from "Win 1 WCC title" to "NC" overnight, but we're taking strides in that direction. The performance of a young team this year shows me just how strong a program we've become, and i've never been more proud (not even when the Hawks totally outplayed and outclassed the Steelers in 05).

Keep the foot on the throat, Zags! (Vegas in T-minus 8 hours!)

tobizag
03-05-2010, 07:16 AM
on february 5, 2006 i had my heart ripped out and stomped on after watching the superbowl and seeing my seahawks get destroyed by the officials...worst refs ever. ever.

on march 11, 2006 my mom turned 48 but wasn't awake to celebrate it.

on march 14, 2006 my mom died of brain cancer.

on march 18, 2006 while at the reception following mom's funeral, my cousin was checking the score of the indiana game and providing updates. it kept my mind off of things.

march 23, 2006 concluded the worst spring in the history of the world.

this is why i give a giant middle finger to the spring of '06 and choose to forget this game.