View Full Version : Which of this year's Subs will make the biggest contribution next year?

02-28-2010, 09:21 PM
We've had almost a year to look at Arop, Olynyk, and Kong, this year's primary subs. Dower is in the wings. Who will have the biggest impact next year?

02-28-2010, 09:38 PM
I think you should list ALL the returning subs. Grant Gibbs (and all the rest, including Stockton and Hart) should be on this list. I actually think Grant will be a key player (though perhaps not the biggest star of the group) as he is in the position to assume a large portion of Matt Bouldin's responsibilities.

02-28-2010, 09:45 PM
I think the one thing that's most exciting about our young crop is that they all are athletic and have loads of upside. I don't see a Nathan Doudney/Sean Mallon/Tony Skinner type ceiling for any of them.

But the one I'm most excited to see given more minutes and a green light on offense is Manny, no doubt. Think he's the whole package. Double G is a close second, we'll miss Matt a lot but I see a lot of Matt in Grant's game. Would love to see KO spend some time at the 4 with Elias at the 3, since we'll have both Rob and Sam to anchor the 5. Love to see Kong create more inside the 3 point line. Heck, there's lot of things I'm looking forward to next year.

But this year... on to victory!

02-28-2010, 09:55 PM
I think that if Elias returns (I believe that he will) then it will come down to playing time available, With Will gone, K.O. and Dower will fight for backup at the 4/5 spot behind Big Rob and Elias, If Elias goes, then Kelly will get an opportunity to start at the 4 and make more of an impression.

In the backcourt, with Matt leaving, Manny will be the most likely player to take over the scoring load, with Grant and Bol also having opportunities.

Of course if we end up with a JUCO guard arriving, Manny, Grant and Bol will have more competition for PT.

I still believe that Manny is the most likely, and, when a junior I see him as the "main man(ny)" in the backcourt.

02-28-2010, 10:06 PM
Given that Kong has shown me that he has long arms and can go the basket rather than merely stand out at the 3-pt line and jack up shots, his upside is pretty high. Either Arop or Kong will probably have the greatest impact on next year's squad, but I'll go with Kong, as he seems the most adept at creating his own shot. The intangibles that Arop brings will be valuable though...

03-01-2010, 02:09 AM
I can see Gonzaga doing something similar to what Syracuse does this year with Wes Johnson. They start the game off with Wes at the 3 spot and as the game progresses and substitutions happen, he gets lots of time at the 4 spot. I see this happening with Harris.

With that the being the way I see it, Kelly will be given the chance to start at the 4 and hopefully create mismatches for Elias in the post vs. weaker small forwards. Manny will be like a 6th starter as he will be first off the bench as Harris slides to the 4 spot.

03-01-2010, 03:24 AM



03-01-2010, 04:47 AM
While Manny is a bit of a tweener in our system, he has 'next Zag superstar' written all over him. I have a feeling Arop will explode onto the scene next season, just as he did during his 2nd year with Team Canada(from 5ppg to 17ppg). As we've seen all year, he might be the team's most underrated shooter and has shown the ability to shoot with consistency from mid-range, 3pt, and get up and dunk the ball w/ease. In addition, 'Gisto will only get better at understanding his role in the offense and scoring on put-backs with his unbelieable O-rebounding skills. Heck, I think he could average 10 points alone once he learns to score on tip-ins and put-backs. I'm still hoping for a Meech, Gray, Manny, Elias, Sacre starting lineup. Talk about an athletic, quick, and tough group to defend and / or score on.

03-01-2010, 05:16 AM
I see both Manny and Bol making more contributions, but I also see GJ making a leap.

03-01-2010, 05:22 AM
KO has already shown he is good enough to play with the best!!! Couple camps this summer and watch out!!!


Once and Future Zag
03-01-2010, 06:44 AM

03-01-2010, 06:53 AM
Its a tough decision. Bol, Manny and Kelly all have terrific upside, and will make an impact next year. I see Kelly gradulay improving over time - watch out jr & sr year. Manny brings so much to the table and will probably be the best of the three when their careers ar over. However I think Kong's developmental curve is steeper which will make him the most ready for prime time next year.

03-01-2010, 07:41 AM
Manny is the most athletic of the pack. It was only his frosh-iness that kept him from looking even more spectacular. Once everything has become reflexive instead of a learning situation, he will contribute even more. He's the whole package, with his 3pt skill a marvelous bonus attached.

KO needs more physical development, and not just muscular. Mostly, he just needs his youngish body to mature. He's a special combination of height and guard abilities, sense and vision; one that can play anywhere on the court on offense. Not that he will be a ball-handler, but that his passing skills create advantages everywhere. His outside shooting will probably become a big weapon. This year, you could just see this big competitive kid aching to be able to show everything that he has, but deferring to the upperclassmen and the coaches, to the detriment of his performance; that conflict likely hampered his shooting stats. Not so, next year.

Bol is a more active player than he had shown before the last few games. I had serious doubts about his future upside and minutes until then. It looks like he will remain more of a specialist, and one who can thrive against most teams. The book is still out whether he can play big minutes against the elite. But at least, he is seriously in the conversation.

Dower is in a position logjam for one more year. It's amazing that GU is in the position to have a talent like this lurking in the wings. Even with that, he will probably have a few huge games anyway.

With Grant, it's difficult to tell whether physical maturation is a factor, or whether he is a lesser version of Matt permanently. He reminds me a lot of players from GU's past who had to wait until they were 22 before blossoming late. He has obvious offensive talents and mobility decent enough to play against most of our opponents; the main problem is that there is just better talent on the squad.

U Zig, I Zag
03-01-2010, 07:45 AM
I think KO will make the biggest 'leap'. Manny is already a spark plug and we expect good things.

Boy, I can't even imagine who is going to start and the combinations we will see.

03-01-2010, 08:11 AM
Boy, I can't even imagine who is going to start ...

I have a feeling that next year's team will be built around an improved defense. Throw a more experienced Manny in with the returning starters, and it becomes upgraded from this year's. With the subs all having been in the system now, the starters will be able to go all out more consistently, beating up on teams more thoroughly for 40 minutes. At least that's what I hope the coaches will be thinking.

03-01-2010, 08:29 AM
This was the start of a new ZAG philosophy Defense First and Scoring Second. In the past when we relied on shooting and found that we could out score 80% of the teams we played and now we stop them first and get the easy buckets or get the ball back from a turnover or rebound. Will still have a GREAT half court game but it is only if needed. So with this said I must go with the BEST "D" player MR. ENERGY Manny.

03-01-2010, 11:22 AM
First I see Arop as the "new contributer" backing up Gray in scoring from anywhere on the floor. I think Kelly is not going to be a center and basically get to do what Heitfelt(sp?) always wanted to do by playing in a truer 4 spot as he wont have to be a default center with Sacre and Dower in there. Harris will stay in that 4 spot he is so good at too.

For fun and thread drift I'm saying the starters will look like Goodson, Gray, Arop, Harris and Sacre.

This is all baring a JC transfer.

03-01-2010, 02:15 PM
For fun and thread drift I'm saying the starters will look like Goodson, Gray, Arop, Harris and Sacre.

This is all baring a JC transfer.

Agreed, even with a JC transfer.

U Zig, I Zag
03-01-2010, 02:56 PM
Meech > GJ > Gray > GG
Gray > GG > GJ > Kong > Manny
Manny > Kong > Harris
Harris > KO > Dower
Sacre > Dower > KO

Sort of convoluted, I know. Past the first layer of subs it's who I think will most likely play at the various spots with endless possibilities for mixing and matching. So Rob is never gonna play anything but the 5, Gray *may* play the 3 but I think he has enough help that he will be teamleader/head gunner and play 90% of the game at the 2.

I like the few times Gray has played point this year and the commentators have pointed it out.

'Is Gray playing point?'
'It looks like it'

I guess it is not normal for your starting 3 to play lockdown D on the opposing team's 2 and occasionally play PG? :D

03-01-2010, 04:20 PM
Given that Kong has shown me that he has long arms and can go the basket rather than merely stand out at the 3-pt line and jack up shots, his upside is pretty high. Either Arop or Kong will probably have the greatest impact on next year's squad, but I'll go with Kong, as he seems the most adept at creating his own shot. The intangibles that Arop brings will be valuable though...

Not to mention that Kong can eat people up on defense. He's really starting to show that the last few games.

03-01-2010, 04:28 PM
I voted Manny. He is extremely impressive with his rebounding and I love the energy he brings on the court. I look forward to seeing him grow into one of Gonzaga's most exciting players to watch in the future.

03-01-2010, 04:35 PM
We are lucky to have all of them + GG + GJ. They have all improved. What they look like after summer training is always a fun comparison. Now, if Ehlo & Heister would go to summer camp...

03-01-2010, 05:47 PM
Personally I think it's too early to discuss next year. There is so much left to this season. And we'll have plenty of time to discuss this.

03-01-2010, 07:57 PM
What if we had a starting lineup that consisted of:


In this scenario I like Dower's game to blossom because of him being a true PF, his lefthandedness and playing alongside Sacre. I do believe both Arop and Kong will contribute mightily next year and could easily see either of them in the starting lineup. The caveat is whether or not Harris starts at the 4. Dower looks like he might suprise some of us.

03-02-2010, 01:08 AM
Kong and Arop. Seriously Olynyk over Kong? I dont think Olynyk will make a huge impact till his junior year. Sophmore year he will have a few big games. but overall hes gonna make small but good contributions.

Arop is gonna average around 11
Bol is gonna average around 15

03-02-2010, 02:46 AM
I personally like kelly game very much, but it depends alot of Elias role how he perform. I beleive he and elias will switch al lot betwenn the 3 and 4 spot, and if he get lots of time as a four i believe he got more Playing time and make an Big impact. Else i would imagine that Arop makes the race.

My Lineup next season:

Meech - GG
Grey - Kong
Harris/KO - Arop
Harris/KO - Dower
Sacre - Dower

03-02-2010, 05:59 AM
Have to disagree with your amounts, not players 509.

Seeing how Gray is going to avg about 15, Elias about 17, Rob about 13, Meech about 9, I don't see how Bol or Manny could avg those amounts. It would be nice though. I think it will be Manny, Kelly, Bol, Grant, and Dower seeing the most minutes.

03-02-2010, 06:15 AM
At the risk of being hooted out of town, I can guarantee u GG will see significant minutes next season. They still have faith he will ultimately fill Matt's role down the road.

03-02-2010, 06:16 AM
Kelly just finds a way. He is destined to become the next great Zag.

His all-around sense of how to play has shown thru many times.

Arop is a very close second but KO can play 3 positions for us next year.

Both players are gems