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View Full Version : Bouldin vs JJ Reddick



AzZag
02-24-2010, 02:12 PM
so...
when I sit and ponder if Matt can play in the NBA, I try to think of a similar player that has made it. I have concluded that if Reddick has a home in the league, there is not a reason that Bouldin shouldn't as well. Reddick might be a little bit better or more accurate of a shooter, but Bouldin seems to have the edge in the passing game.

I was on sportsline.com reading these thoughts from a casual fan (maybe a GUB member) and it got me to thinking of how exactly he would fit in the NBA


"If he was a big man I would say absolutely he would play at the next level. Remember the immediate impact Larry Bird had in the NBA. It was mainly because he was able to defend at the power forward position and then use his ballhandling, passing, and shooting range(+ his size mismatch) to overmatch the small forwards that were guarding him. Everyone points to Magic Johnson as the ultimate mismatch, being a 6'9" point guard, but Bird, a 6'9" small forward with those skills and court sense was also revolutionary.
I think of Bird often when I watch Bouldin. At the college level, he is able to do what Bird did in the NBA, use his size, court sense, ballhandling, and shooting skills to dominate smaller players. He has a 3-man body, playing 2 or even 1. Heck, he's 225-230 pounds. I don't see him having this advantage in the NBA. They are too big, too athletic, and too strong at virtually every position. 3-men now are routinely 6'9". Think about people like Paul Pierce, Sean Marion, Lamar Odom. Ouch- they're big, fast, powerful, with huge skills. Matt would have to play 2. I think in the NBA, a player can be hidden defensively inside, especially if the center is good, but I don't think it's so easy to hide a player at the 2 or 1. Bird benefitted so much from playing with Kevin McHale, a perennial all-defensive performer. McHale could play a faster, quicker player because of his long arms and guile.
I hope it works out for him. Maybe his shooting will continue to improve and he can play the role of a sharpshooter."

Xin Loi 67
02-24-2010, 02:28 PM
Will make it based not based on any one thing he can do but all that he does.

CanadianZagFan
02-24-2010, 04:11 PM
There are plenty of guys that just need to find the right situation so that they can stick in the NBA. I look at Matt to have the ability to carve out a career similar to that of Roger Mason, Anthony Parker, Fred Hoiberg, or Coby Karl.

I don't see Matt as a top 8 rotation guy, but with seasoning and the right team he could be a rotation player at some point.

webspinnre
02-24-2010, 06:23 PM
Matt can't shoot as well as JJ, but I agree on the general role player bit.

cggonzaga
02-24-2010, 06:36 PM
No offense to Matty B but if Blake Stepp couldn't make the league I don't know how Matt will. I agree a lot of it depends on timing and finding a fit but I'd be a little surprised if he plays in the league. This is not to say Matt isn't a great college player or has had a great senior season. I don't know where we'd be this year without him. Dickau and Frahm were great shooters but couldn't hold a spot. I personally feel Stepp was better than Matt and Stepp was a little bit better athlete.

75Zag
02-24-2010, 06:43 PM
There are plenty of guys that just need to find the right situation so that they can stick in the NBA. I look at Matt to have the ability to carve out a career similar to that of Roger Mason, Anthony Parker, Fred Hoiberg, or Coby Karl.

I don't see Matt as a top 8 rotation guy, but with seasoning and the right team he could be a rotation player at some point.

I have been a Portland Trailblazer season ticket holder for most of the past 32 years and consider myself a fairly avid NBA fan, but I don't recall that I have ever heard of any of the 4 players you mention. No offense to you or to Matt B., but if his chance in the league is based upon his becoming the "next Fred Hoiberg", Matt may want to investigate job opportunities in the life insurance sales market.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

IrishZag
02-24-2010, 06:46 PM
JJ and Matt comparisons should end at them both being White and Guards.

JJ is a sharpshooter with endless range. He came into college with that skill at it is the sole reason that he is on an NBA roster getting minutes. His entire game is based on coming off screens and hitting uncontested shots. As his career progressed at Duke he did develop more of an overall game, which makes him less of a liability on the court, but he gets his minutes because he can shoot.

I love Matt's game and I think he is an exceptional college player, but I think he is going to have a more difficult time carving out minutes than JJ because he does not have a clearly defined niche.

I was lucky enough to sit courtside at the Nuggets vs. Celtics game this week, and the level of athleticism in the NBA is just another level. Part of Matt's ability in college to be such an all around player is because of his above average athleticism. In the NBA that's nullified.

titopoet
02-24-2010, 07:33 PM
A better comparison is Andre Miller or Mark Jackson. Andre is certainly not the most athletic guy, but he uses his high IQ to compensate. While JJ is good, he is far more limited player that Matt. JJ is a better shooter. Matt is a better passer, driver, and has a better post game. When Andre Miller came into the league, he had the same knocks. Since then their have been a lot more athletic players come and gone with Andre still playing. Mark Jackson is ditto. Not saying Matt will have a career like either, onlu pointing to the possibility.

Once and Future Zag
02-24-2010, 07:55 PM
No offense to Matty B but if Blake Stepp couldn't make the league I don't know how Matt will... I personally feel Stepp was better than Matt and Stepp was a little bit better athlete.

It wasn't skill or athleticism that kept Blake out of the league - it was essentially bum knees.

U Zig, I Zag
02-24-2010, 08:31 PM
It wasn't skill or athleticism that kept Blake out of the league - it was essentially bum knees.

He was practically a robot by his senior year. Well, not really - but he was hurt, a lot. Showed his toughness though.

I think Matt has a chance. Someone will take him as an option in the 2nd round I bet. He will get some D-League action, at minimum.

GU gets more press now, ESPN, all the games on TV, etc. With better prospects on the team (Harris, Sacre) there are going to be more reps at games, more game footage poured over - Matt stands out.

I hope the best for him.

Pleasant Peninsula
02-24-2010, 10:33 PM
Blake would have made the league if he were healthy still.

Matt will make the league, too, but JJ Redick (one of the greatest college basketball players ever) comparisons = FAIL.

CanadianZagFan
02-25-2010, 03:53 AM
A better comparison is Andre Miller or Mark Jackson. Andre is certainly not the most athletic guy, but he uses his high IQ to compensate. While JJ is good, he is far more limited player that Matt. JJ is a better shooter. Matt is a better passer, driver, and has a better post game. When Andre Miller came into the league, he had the same knocks. Since then their have been a lot more athletic players come and gone with Andre still playing. Mark Jackson is ditto. Not saying Matt will have a career like either, onlu pointing to the possibility.

I don't think this relay fits as both the guys you mentioned are pure point guards, Matt does move the ball well and has good vision, but he is not a PG. Thus the reason I threw out some 2 guards and combo guards to compare him to. I chose players who have had, or are having, a career that would be a great best case scenario for Matt. He needs to land on the right team or he is Europe bound....or non basketball playing job bound.

Eric Devendorf from Syracuse is a guy (a meat head mind you) that is similar, he came out early and is now sitting on the 'Cuse bench as some kind of student coach or something. The kid had guard skills, could run the point a bit like Matt and was a decent shooter, but it is hard for an NBA team to take a player like that and say here you go, here are a bunch of DNP's and hope they have something of value, those teams use vets for those spots.

CanadianZagFan
02-25-2010, 04:00 AM
I have been a Portland Trailblazer season ticket holder for most of the past 32 years and consider myself a fairly avid NBA fan, but I don't recall that I have ever heard of any of the 4 players you mention. No offense to you or to Matt B., but if his chance in the league is based upon his becoming the "next Fred Hoiberg", Matt may want to investigate job opportunities in the life insurance sales market.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

WOW, Anthony Parker is the starting shooting guard for the Cavs, kind of a popular team, Roger Mason is on the Spurs and started for them in the 08/09 season and average 12ppg, Fred Hoiberg had a 10 year NBA career with Indiana, Chicago, and Minnesota, he was never a starter but was always a good team player, Coby Karl is the son of NBA head coach George Karl and has had short stints with with a few teams over the last 3 years, he is an D-league player and is the only one can could understand you not ever hearing of if you are an NBA season ticket holder for 32 years......but I would trade in my knowing of them to have season tickets!

Birddog
02-25-2010, 04:24 AM
Is Coby back in the D-League? A couple weeks ago I went to the Warriors vs Thunder game and Karl was on the roster for the Warriors on a 10 day contract. He joined the team in OKC, played about 26 mins, scored in the teens, and fouled out with a few mins to play. He was the best option at point the Warriors had that day in a losing effort. He's a savvy player, limited, but knowledgeable with decent skills.

titopoet
02-25-2010, 05:54 AM
I don't think this relay fits as both the guys you mentioned are pure point guards, Matt does move the ball well and has good vision, but he is not a PG. Thus the reason I threw out some 2 guards and combo guards to compare him to. I chose players who have had, or are having, a career that would be a great best case scenario for Matt. He needs to land on the right team or he is Europe bound....or non basketball playing job bound.
/QUOTE]

I stand by the comparison. Andre Miller is good example of how Matt can find a niche in the NBA. Below is a evaluation of Miller from draftexpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Andre-Miller-3598/), and it is close to how many people describe Matt's game. I italicized what I thought best fit Matt's game:

[QUOTE]August 18, 2009
Overview: A veteran point guard who is one of the League’s better assistmen despite his lack of elite athleticism. Solid size for a point guard, but has struggled with weight problems at various points in his career. Strength helps him get in the lane. Has a deceptive first step, but isn’t very fast or vertically explosive. Makes a living as a distributor. Can score, but is known as one of the League’s top assist men. Was one of the top players in college basketball as a senior at Utah in 1999. Won the WAC Player of the Year Award during that season. Can be a major asset on a team with talented or developing perimeter scorers. Has clearly augmented the development of Andre Iguodala, which is all Philadelphia could have asked him for.

Offense: A talented offensive point guard who makes a living as a distributor. Gets most of his offense by turning the corner on the pick and roll and pushing the ball in transition. One of the best distributors the game has to offer. Will set his teammates up at an impressive rate. Not a super creative passer, but a very smart one. Very good ball handler. Displays a quick crossover that helps him compensate for his lack of footspeed. Possesses a consistent jumper, but doesn’t have three point range. Will knock down midrange jumpers at a solid rate. Does the vast majority of his damage off the dribble. Can pull up over most point guards due to his size. Very good touch from the midrange in. Does a good job getting to the rim despite his lack of speed. Finishes at the rim at a good clip despite the fact that he isn’t very explosive. Great touch on almost every shot he takes from the free throw line in. Solid foul shooter. Very effective post game since he has a size advantage over most point guards. Will turn over his left shoulder and get the ball up on the rim. Deals very well with physical contact. Strong with the basketball. Will score when he has to, but would rather act as a facilitator.

Defense: A solid defender who has the awareness to make some plays. Does a good job defending the ball despite lacking ideal quickness. Will get beaten off the dribble from time to time. Has the size and strength to deny shots and body his man to prevent penetration. Rebounds the ball at a good rate for his position. Uses his size advantage to contest shots. Plays with good intensity and gets in a good stance. Sets a good example for the younger players on Philadelphia’s roster.


Thoughts

ZagLawGrad
02-25-2010, 09:44 AM
Wish MB the best after his GU career. He has come a long ways since last season, particularly in showing lots of poise and leadership. No one has more heart than he has shown this season.

But his biggest NBA downside will be his lack of height and quickness compared to NBA players. There's a lot of taller and better athletes filling the kinds of positions that he would need to step into at that level. Reddick has a role as a long-ball shooter. MB is not a long-ball type at the end of the day. European ball at a minimum. And that's not a bad deal these days.

CanadianZagFan
02-25-2010, 11:04 AM
[QUOTE=CanadianZagFan;542029]I don't think this relay fits as both the guys you mentioned are pure point guards, Matt does move the ball well and has good vision, but he is not a PG. Thus the reason I threw out some 2 guards and combo guards to compare him to. I chose players who have had, or are having, a career that would be a great best case scenario for Matt. He needs to land on the right team or he is Europe bound....or non basketball playing job bound.
/QUOTE]

I stand by the comparison. Andre Miller is good example of how Matt can find a niche in the NBA. Below is a evaluation of Miller from draftexpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Andre-Miller-3598/), and it is close to how many people describe Matt's game. I italicized what I thought best fit Matt's game:



Thoughts

Sure if Matt were a PG, but he is not a point guard and thus it is not a great comparison. Matt is not taller than most 2 guards, he won't be shooting over then or crossing them over. He won't be posting up smaller guards because he will be playing guys that are, for the most part, longer and taller than himself.

Like I said, Roger Mason to me is a good comparison, if you would like to tell me why not go for it.

webspinnre
02-25-2010, 12:12 PM
Matt's problem is that he's a tweener. He's got some of the skills of a PG, but not all, but doesn't shoot as well from the 3 as you'd like a SG to do, or drive the hole quite as well. His skill set is actually more of a SG/SF, but he isn't as tall or as athletic as many of those guys at that level. However, he does have the vision, and alot of the intangibles they look for. I think Roger Mason is a pretty reasonable comparison. Got a chance for a solid, if unspectacular career.

dim4sum
02-25-2010, 01:12 PM
why wouldn't denver want an instate player with NBA skills. drawing fans is one important aspect of the draft. People would turn out to see MB since so few Colorado players have made the cut in the NBA. He's far from a pure point, but then again players who know how to win always manage to find a posiition.

BroncoZAG615
02-25-2010, 01:19 PM
why wouldn't denver want an instate player with NBA skills. drawing fans is one important aspect of the draft. People would turn out to see MB since so few Colorado players have made the cut in the NBA. He's far from a pure point, but then again players who know how to win always manage to find a posiition.

The Nuggets are one of the most exciting teams to watch in the NBA. They've got star power and plenty of interesting characters. They have no trouble with filling seats. Also, they do not need any kind of back court play.

Xin Loi 67
02-25-2010, 01:59 PM
we are quite the experts. He will be drafted late 1st or early 2nd round. I'll come back and tell you if I'm wrong, all doubters do the same.

Pleasant Peninsula
02-25-2010, 02:04 PM
He's no longer listed as a draft pick by Draft Express. He had been a second rounder all year long until recently. For whatever that is worth...

They still have Harris listed as the 16th pick.