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alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 11:29 AM
He was asked if he had accomplished everything he wanted while at Gonzaga.

He said "Yeah, I have".

Gonzaga has not won a National Championship though. This lets me add this in to my evidence bucket that shows that the coaching staff and the team do not have a "national chmpionship" culture and emphasis.

Obviously they all want one. Duh. But maybe they are more focused on not losing the conference. Maybe they have relegated their huge success to a few Tournament games and getting 1-2 guys every year into the NBA. Or maybe that 2-3 guys will go pro overseas and that the Sweet 16 is good enough and that the money influx to the University is what really matters.

I know they want a championship. But it isn't the main goal and it isn't one of the things Matt Bouldin said he wanted to accomplish while he was here. By his own admission. Maybe he didn't have time to think about the question. Maybe he didn't need to say it because it is so farfetched. Maybe they have slowly forgotten about it because they don't need it to validate their success anymore. Not to mention why have expectations that you can't achieve every year? That would be a downer not to win the Nat Championship when you wanted to.

I would like to see the team start to discuss publicly that a NC is the goal. Start talking about it more. Maybe if they give 5-10 minutes a day to look at how to dominate like a National Champion does, I would bet we would have even less conference losses. What does our team have in common with other national champions. How are we different. If we compare ourselves to the best teams ever, It can only help. IMO.

That is just my stupid opinion, but I wasn't surprised that Bouldin did not say he wants a NC. A national championship is not in their daily vocabulary and it is not even in the forefront of Matt's mind as something he wants here at GU.

LongIslandZagFan
02-23-2010, 11:35 AM
He was asked if he had accomplished everything he wanted while at Gonzaga.

He said "Yeah, I have".

Gonzaga has not won a National Championship though. This lets me add this in to my evidence bucket that shows that the coaching staff and the team do not have a "national chmpionship" culture and emphasis.

Obviously they all want one. Duh. But maybe they are more focused on not losing the conference. Maybe they have relegated their huge success to a few Tournament games and getting 1-2 guys every year into the NBA. Or maybe that 2-3 guys will go pro overseas and that the Sweet 16 is good enough and that the money influx to the University is what really matters.

I know they want a championship. But it isn't the main goal and it isn't one of the things Matt Bouldin said he wanted to accomplish while he was here. By his own admission. Maybe he didn't have time to think about the question. Maybe he didn't need to say it because it is so farfetched. Maybe they have slowly forgotten about it because they don't need it to validate their success anymore. Not to mention why have expectations that you can't achieve every year? That would be a downer not to win the Nat Championship when you wanted to.

I would like to see the team start to discuss publicly that a NC is the goal. Start talking about it more. Maybe if they give 5-10 minutes a day to look at how to dominate like a National Champion does, I would bet we would have even less conference losses. What does our team have in common with other national champions. How are we different. If we compare ourselves to the best teams ever, It can only help. IMO.

That is just my stupid opinion, but I wasn't surprised that Bouldin did not say he wants a NC. A national championship is not in their daily vocabulary and it is not even in the forefront of Matt's mind as something he wants here at GU.

Wow... way to extrapolate a whole ton of diatribe from one innocent comment.

MDABE80
02-23-2010, 11:37 AM
Wouldn't read too much into it. NC is off in the distance....not in the forefront. Even when a kid might say he wants one, it's more conceptual...like "who wouldn't want one??!?!?"...but it's not implanted. I doubt it is from 99% of kids even in the high end UNC/Duke/Kansas type programs. I don't think it's a failing....we have other things on our minds for our kids. It's a different approach at GU. It's more about contribution to others...just my opinion.

BroncoZAG615
02-23-2010, 11:40 AM
Fire Few, bench Bouldin, and bulldoze the MAC. It's the only logical choice from here.

Angelo Roncalli
02-23-2010, 11:40 AM
WTH is an "evidence bucket?"

Pleasant Peninsula
02-23-2010, 11:43 AM
I think they should set their sights on a Final Four, not necessarily a national championship. That is the one level they've not yet reached, and of course, if you make it that far, anything is possible, though I can hardly remember a team winning it all in their first trip to Final Four...

I remember that Pargo commented several times that it was his goal to reach a Final Four, and IIRC he said prior to last season that the goal the team talked about all summer long was a Final Four berth. I liked that; it was a realistic goal, though they weren't able to achieve it.

As others have noted, it was an innocent comment, but I would have preferred Bouldin's answer to have included some reference to needing a deep run in March (E8 or F4) to fully make his career complete.

He needs more than two or three tournament wins in his four year career, don't you think?

Just A Zag
02-23-2010, 11:44 AM
WTH is an "evidence bucket?"

more like an evidence trough

jim77
02-23-2010, 11:50 AM
I think you are reading into Matt's comments a bit much. I'm thinking the LMU's and SF's are teaching the Zags to conquer the task at hand.....and if you conquer enough of those tasks? You might even find youself in just such a game. I will say this though (hijacking the thread) there isn't isin't a team in college this year that the Zags could not beat on a good night. A final 4 run could come sooner than most think....this team has showed trmendous heart at times and lack of focus at other times....but the talent,character and heart are there.

Zagtana
02-23-2010, 11:58 AM
Of course they want a national title. That's every team's ultimate goal, every players ultimate goal. But to quote an overused sports cliche, one step/game at a time. Beat SC, beat USF, win the conference, win conference playoffs, win, win, win from now on. If it doesn't happen that way, the season has not been a total failure. In fact, all considered, it has, imo, been a fantastic season. That's not to say the guys should hang up their shoes right now. I'm thinking, I know, they want a n.t. as much as we fans do, probably more so. But as of now, up to now, Mr. Bouldin has personally, individually, accomplished so much in his four years. I don't blame him for saying he is happy with what he has accomplished at this point in time.

ZagLawGrad
02-23-2010, 11:59 AM
A bit wordy, but there's probably an element of truth to AZN's comments.

Better though not to let the notion and passion for a Final 4 or National Championship take over lest you drive yourself insane. Would be nice to get there, but the chances are, well, not particularly high that it will ever happen. Sweet 16 is a great accomplishment any year, and Elite 8 is spectacular.

Psychozag
02-23-2010, 12:08 PM
Frank Burgess - Unsuccessful GU career.
John Stockton - Unsuccessful GU career.
Casey Calvary - Unsuccessful GU career.
Adam Morrison - Unsuccessful GU career.

And the list could go on and on and on....

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 12:12 PM
more like an evidence trough

My diatribe is that a National Championship is not routine or a focus of their training. That bugs me. Yeah I did read a lot into one innocent statement. But looking back, can anyone find an interview where any player or coach says they feel they can win the national championship and that that is their ultimate goal. I can't find any nor can I remember any since Casey Calvary left. One thing I learned by watching the Olympics is that virtually all the athletes envision Gold medals as kids and all throughout their training.

I used the word "evidence bucket" to see if certain members would make that the focus of the thread rather than my opinion. It worked.

What is wrong with aiming as high as you can and letting the rest fall into place? A final four is great but not the best. I want a National Championship. They should too. IMO.

If anyone has read my long winded opinions lately I feel the only thing holding our team back is NOT cultivating a national championship mentality. I am looking for evidence support or refute that. If the coach continuously tells the guys that a NC is the main goal, then when news reporters ask our kids "Have you achieved all your goals?" they answer immediately "No, we haven't won a National Championship".

BTW, I read a lot into every innocent statement. Not that there is anything in every statement but there is a lot behind some of them.

bartruff1
02-23-2010, 12:13 PM
Silly

sonuvazag
02-23-2010, 12:17 PM
I want my national chamionship and I want it now!

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 12:19 PM
Frank Burgess - Unsuccessful GU career.
John Stockton - Unsuccessful GU career.
Casey Calvary - Unsuccessful GU career.
Adam Morrison - Unsuccessful GU career.

And the list could go on and on and on....

I'm not saying any of these guys were unsuccessful. You are the one doing that! Why does every opinion turn into the extreme of "You are bashing the team and you are a bad fan"

Every critical opinion turns into that on this board. Some members can't get past personal attacks and fanhood muscle flexing?!? Do so many members really just come here to try and show every one how much better of a fan they are? All they do is take critical opinions and try to make the poster into a ZAG HATER?

75Zag
02-23-2010, 12:28 PM
I don't read anything into what Matt B. said. I think he can be extremely proud of his accomplishments at GU. And if he really dated Taylor Swift, he has already accomplished something in his short life that most men can only dream about. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Now, where were we?

Oh yeah. Disregarding Matt's comment, I tend to agree with the underlying premise of what AZN seems to suggest. To an outsider like me, the GU BB program does not appear to have adopted the sort of single minded dedication to winning a National Championship that you read about at schools like Kentucky, UCLA (of old), Kansas, etc. I don't see Few lecturing GU players about how they will be a disgrace to themselves and to the program if they don't win the National Chapmpionship, which is supposedly what Bobby Knight used to tell his players at Indiana. I have no respect for Bobby Knight, and I am glad that GU and its players and coaches are not trying to emulate his approach to life or to the game of BB.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

zagfan24
02-23-2010, 12:32 PM
My guess, AK, is that people had more of an issue with using Bouldin's comment to propel your argument rather than your opinion itself. I don't necessarily agree with you but find no issue with your basic premise of wanting a team focus on a national championship. It's an interesting discussing.

THAT said...I think it's important to remember (in my humble opinion):

1) Gonzaga's limitations in being a NC caliber team. Recruiting budget, Conference, Spokane's Climate...IMO these are obstacles that we overcome every year but are nonetheless obstacles.

2) The typical trajectory of national champions. UNC and UCLA have recently won titles and now neither is likely to be in the tourney. The one-and-done culture hasn't necessarily made consistent success and championship ability mutually exclusive...but it's made it a hell of a lot more difficult.

3) How few teams have won a title. There's 1 a year -- making for a wonderful overarching goal but in terms of positive reinforcement, likelihood of success, etc. a pretty lousy goal to hang your hat on alone.

CaliforniaZaggin'
02-23-2010, 12:37 PM
He was asked if he had accomplished everything he wanted while at Gonzaga.

He said "Yeah, I have".

Gonzaga has not won a National Championship though. This lets me add this in to my evidence bucket that shows that the coaching staff and the team do not have a "national chmpionship" culture and emphasis.

Obviously they all want one. Duh. But maybe they are more focused on not losing the conference. Maybe they have relegated their huge success to a few Tournament games and getting 1-2 guys every year into the NBA. Or maybe that 2-3 guys will go pro overseas and that the Sweet 16 is good enough and that the money influx to the University is what really matters.

I know they want a championship. But it isn't the main goal and it isn't one of the things Matt Bouldin said he wanted to accomplish while he was here. By his own admission. Maybe he didn't have time to think about the question. Maybe he didn't need to say it because it is so farfetched. Maybe they have slowly forgotten about it because they don't need it to validate their success anymore. Not to mention why have expectations that you can't achieve every year? That would be a downer not to win the Nat Championship when you wanted to.

I would like to see the team start to discuss publicly that a NC is the goal. Start talking about it more. Maybe if they give 5-10 minutes a day to look at how to dominate like a National Champion does, I would bet we would have even less conference losses. What does our team have in common with other national champions. How are we different. If we compare ourselves to the best teams ever, It can only help. IMO.

That is just my stupid opinion, but I wasn't surprised that Bouldin did not say he wants a NC. A national championship is not in their daily vocabulary and it is not even in the forefront of Matt's mind as something he wants here at GU.

Read your post... I want my 90 seconds back.

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 12:45 PM
Now, where were we?

Oh yeah. Disregarding Matt's comment, I tend to agree with the underlying premise of what AZN seems to suggest. To an outsider like me, the GU BB program does not appear to have adopted the sort of single minded dedication to winning a National Championship that you read about at schools like Kentucky, UCLA (of old), Kansas, etc. I don't see Few lecturing GU players about how they will be a disgrace to themselves and to the program if they don't win the National Chapmpionship, which is supposedly what Bobby Knight used to tell his players at Indiana. I have no respect for Bobby Knight, and I am glad that GU and its players and coaches are not trying to emulate his approach to life or to the game of BB.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

Maybe I read too much into it but it did lead me to look back and notice that there is NO conversations regarding it. And its one thing that is missing from the puzzle. I do not think it should be "a single minded goal" nor do I think "We are a disgrace if we don't win it all!". Those who think htat is what I am saying are wack. I feel like clearly defining that as the main goal is not being done.

To me it is grade school stuff. Envision and define your goal, outline what it takes to get there and execute the plan. But without a clear cut goal the plan and path gets sidetracked easier. Motivation is an issue for our team, not skill. So I am just trying to think about how the team might get more motivated to play up to their abilities and not down to their opponents. Like they tend to do. i think all of us agree with that. (Including the team and staff.)

BTW I'm going to work on shortening my posts. Somehow.:lmao:

Houston Zag
02-23-2010, 12:48 PM
I'm with you Alaskazagnut. Gonzaga is no longer a team that should just thank the NCAA for allowing them to participate. They are recruiting and playing at a high enough level from year to year that the national championship is a realistic goal. As a fan I'm not satisfied that the best player and leader on our team doesn't instinctually say he is in pursuit of that goal. Gonzaga has to lose the cinderella mentality. It is a legitimate national program and should have the same goals as teams like Duke, North Carolina, and Kansas.

Once and Future Zag
02-23-2010, 12:54 PM
My diatribe is that a National Championship is not routine or a focus of their training.

That's a heck of a leap to make - and I'm not sure how anyone NOT on the team or staff would know if that was the case.

Just A Zag
02-23-2010, 12:57 PM
Gonzaga has to lose the cinderella mentality. It is a legitimate national program and should have the same goals as teams like Duke, North Carolina, and Kansas.


In all fairness, North Carolina's goal this year seems to be making the tourney. And that goal is coming up short. Making the field of 65 should never be taken for granted. Sure, winning the NC should be the ultimate goal of a college basketball player, but if said player doesn't reach that goal it doesn't mean he didn't accomplish everything he intended to. Win the conference, make the tourney, and see how long we can last.

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 12:57 PM
As a fan I'm not satisfied that the best player and leader on our team doesn't instinctually say he is in pursuit of that goal. Gonzaga has to lose the cinderella mentality. It is a legitimate national program and should have the same goals as teams like Duke, North Carolina, and Kansas.

I need to work on more concise posts. That way I don't waste anymore of Calliforniazaggin's time.

At least someone agrees with me though. I may sound harsh but I think it is just one thing that will help the program reach the next level. Maintain a championship culture and we will get it someday. Keep aiming in the right spot and sooner or later you will hit it. If you don't aim, its virtually impossible to hit the bulls eye. I would like to know they are at least aiming in the right spot.

titopoet
02-23-2010, 12:59 PM
My diatribe is that a National Championship is not routine or a focus of their training. That bugs me. Yeah I did read a lot into one innocent statement. But looking back, can anyone find an interview where any player or coach says they feel they can win the national championship and that that is their ultimate goal. I can't find any nor can I remember any since Casey Calvary left. One thing I learned by watching the Olympics is that virtually all the athletes envision Gold medals as kids and all throughout their training.


Ever read Jim Bouton's Ball Four? Good book. He talk about the culture of not talking about the World Series. This was when he was with the Yankees that won it almost every year. It was thought of as a jinx. In most sports, I have seen has the same prohibition. Roy Williams, last year, kept talking about winning the next game or the league, but not the National Championship. I know it was their goal. I have been around Olympic athletes. (I lived in Vail, and got to know with Picabo Street among others) They never talked about Gold medals with the media or public. They dream about it, they just did not talk about it. I don't know the psychology of it, but I know it exists.

zaggernaut
02-23-2010, 01:00 PM
In order to win a NC ya gotta get to the FF first

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 01:08 PM
Ever read Jim Bouton's Ball Four? Good book. He talk about the culture of not talking about the World Series. This was when he was with the Yankees that won it almost every year. It was thought of as a jinx. In most sports, I have seen has the same prohibition. Roy Williams, last year, kept talking about winning the next game or the league, but not the National Championship. I know it was their goal. I have been around Olympic athletes. (I lived in Vail, and got to know with Picabo Street among others) They never talked about Gold medals with the media or public. They dream about it, they just did not talk about it. I don't know the psychology of it, but I know it exists.

then I am not worried anymore and that explains a lot. If they are deliberately avoiding the topic because of superstition and jinxes, then I can understand why nobody EVER, EVER talks about it. Makes some sense to me. But I am not superstitious. If Bobby Knight talked about the national championship all the time, we can't say that it doesn't work because he has 3 and the most wins ever!!!

But I still wish Matt would have said "No, I haven't achieved everything in my college career, I haven't won the Championship." That was the question he was asked: Not if he was happy with what he has accomplished, but if he had accomplished everything he wanted. There is a difference.

kitzbuel
02-23-2010, 01:09 PM
If anyone has read my long winded opinions lately I feel the only thing holding our team back is NOT cultivating a national championship mentality.


Well, that and the fact that there are a lot of better teams than Gonzaga.

(Yes, Syracuse, Kentucky, Kansas - they are better than Gonzaga).

LongIslandZagFan
02-23-2010, 01:12 PM
I suspect that Matt came into GU looking to:

A) Get a good education
B) Become a better basketball player
C) Work on B enough to allow him to play at the next level
D) Play a sport that helps get him the chicks.
E) If everything works out, go deep into the tourney and be LUCKY enough to win a NC (because it does take some level of luck as well).

I am sure in his eyes he achieved all of the above.

As someone noted winning a NC is NOT an easy thing to do as on 1 out of 334 Division 1 teams wins it every year. Is it a goal, I am sure on some level it is, but if that is the primary goal then every team but 1 goes home disappointed year after year. I honestly find it pretty silly to extrapolate that comment to the levels that you did... I don't even GET how you can justify the notion that his comment somehow translates to the whole program not wanting to win a NC.

Houston Zag
02-23-2010, 01:12 PM
Of course coaches talk about winning the next game to the media, but they should be telling their players a lot more than that.

I don't think anyone is saying not winning a national championship makes the season an automatic failure. This isn't Kentucky. We aren't going to fire our coach for taking us to the tournament every year and being an overall winning program without a national title.

What is being said it should be the aim of the program to win a title and I don't think it is wrong for players to vocalize that goal. I think players and coaches should talk about wanting to win the national championship. A few years ago when Pat Reilly took the Heat into the NBA Finals he handed out booklets to his players reminding them of their goal to win the NBA Championship. Michael Jordan would always talk about taking it one game at a time, but with the ultimate goal of winning a championship.

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 01:14 PM
Well, that and the fact that there are a lot of better teams than Gonzaga.

(Yes, Syracuse, Kentucky, Kansas - they are better than Gonzaga).

Was the NC Wolfpack the best team in the nation in 1983? Not even close. But they had a winning mentality and the motivation to win it all. That goes further than who is better on paper or a W/L column IMO.

gamagin
02-23-2010, 01:14 PM
tea leaves here.

You have been upset for the past few games (at a minimum) and can't seem to let go of the fact that $hit happens. No way, you say. Someone is to blame; someone HAS to be to blame; ergo, it's Few.

There are 100 thousand plus posts on the GUB which are essentially variations of the same theme. Most for, some are against, Few.

Twixt and tween are perhaps a couple of observations that come fairly close to the real answers.

Your conclusion, however, seems to me to be an extension of your dissatisfaction moreso than a reasonable interpretation of what is really going on.

You suggest at his core, Few doesn't really plan to win the NC, therefore he is planning to fail to win the NC.

I suggest he is doing his best year in and and year out to position the Zags to make a run for the NC and if he can keep doing that, the Zags have a chance of winning it all.

He's been setting this table for over a decade. One day it's going to occur to all of us, and most particularly the players invited to the table, that it will ultimately be up to them to make a feast of the banquet before them.

LongIslandZagFan
02-23-2010, 01:17 PM
Of course coaches talk about winning the next game to the media, but they should be telling their players a lot more than that.

I don't think anyone is saying not winning a national championship makes the season an automatic failure. This isn't Kentucky. We aren't going to fire our coach for taking us to the tournament every year and being an overall winning program without a national title.

What is being said it should be the aim of the program to win a title and I don't think it is wrong for players to vocalize that goal. I think players and coaches should talk about wanting to win the national championship. A few years ago when Pat Reilly took the Heat into the NBA Finals he handed out booklets to his players reminding them of their goal to win the NBA Championship. Michael Jordan would always talk about taking it one game at a time, but with the ultimate goal of winning a championship.

Again, you and AlaskaZagnut are trying to build a building out the the dust you can grab out of the air to come up with this concept that the whole program is a sham and it really isn't trying.

sonuvazag
02-23-2010, 01:17 PM
Ever read Jim Bouton's Ball Four? Good book. He talk about the culture of not talking about the World Series. This was when he was with the Yankees that won it almost every year. It was thought of as a jinx. In most sports, I have seen has the same prohibition. Roy Williams, last year, kept talking about winning the next game or the league, but not the National Championship. I know it was their goal. I have been around Olympic athletes. (I lived in Vail, and got to know with Picabo Street among others) They never talked about Gold medals with the media or public. They dream about it, they just did not talk about it. I don't know the psychology of it, but I know it exists.
That's what I wanted to add. I noticed, AZN, that you were referring to goal setting, visualization, planning, affirmation, etc. I agree with you on that though you seem a little too impatient to enjoy the journey.:D

In everything I have ever read about goals, it is always said that you keep them secret.

LongIslandZagFan
02-23-2010, 01:17 PM
Was the NC Wolfpack the best team in the nation in 1983? Not even close. But they had a winning mentality and the motivation to win it all. That goes further than who is better on paper or a W/L column IMO.

Wow... just wow.

ZagManFan
02-23-2010, 01:17 PM
In order to win a NC ya gotta get to the FF first

I thought if you won the WCC tournament, you got a bye to the national championship game? Silly me.

Look, if it is drilled into these guys that a NC is a goal, then you layout a path that makes that goal a reality. Right now it seems that goal is the conference tournament (and rightfully so), but you can have several goals in a year. And I'm talking strictly athletic goals, not academic goals. Both are equally important.

Goal 1: Win WCC regular season
Goal 2: Win Conf. Tournament
Goal 3: Sweet 16
Goal 4: you get what I'm saying.

I think what AZN is saying is that we do not see players and coaches acting with that mentality. It's almost like a ho hum season and we will go as far as we can go, not, if we don't reach the FF it's considered a lost season.

Now a FF appearance would exceed almost every expectations we had for this squad, but you can't tell me when we play like we can play we can't beat Kansas or Kentucky. They CAN play with these schools and they can make a deep run, but they have to believe it and right now I'm not sure they do. I BELIEVE!!

Houston Zag
02-23-2010, 01:25 PM
Again, you and AlaskaZagnut are trying to build a building out the the dust you can grab out of the air to come up with this concept that the whole program is a sham and it really isn't trying.

I don't think that is what we are doing at all. The point is that the best player/leader on Gonzaga's team is saying he has accomplished everything he wanted to accomplish. I would expect him to say he has accomplished everything short of a final four/national championship. I don't think the program is a sham at all. I'm also not against Mark Few. I think it is a good program with a great coach, but I do think that its culture is based on its cinderella history. Many Gonzaga fans see this team as just lucky to be playing and golly shucks it is nice that a small school from Spokane is competative.

Alaskazagnut and I are just asking that cinderella modesty to shift toward a more lofty goal. This isn't the program it was 10 years ago. Our best players/leaders should reflect that change. Maybe they do in the locker room. I don't know. I would imagine the topic has come up, but it isn't reflected in the fan base or in Matt B.'s latest statement.

kyle dixon
02-23-2010, 01:25 PM
Sometimes as a Zag fan, I really think there is too much time in between games for fans to over analyze things. Seriously.....

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 01:26 PM
I honestly find it pretty silly to extrapolate that comment to the levels that you did... I don't even GET how you can justify the notion that his comment somehow translates to the whole program not wanting to win a NC.

I did not say "the whole program not wanting to win a NC." In fact in bold letters I say "Obviously they all want one".

I'm saying that I see no evidence that it is a top goal or that it is even top 3. You state it hypothetically as Bouldins #5.

I AM making a bold jump, but it is what I thought after I heard his comments. Then when I actually looked back over the years, I never hear anyone talk of winning it all. I believe after this decade we can reach the next level as a program and keep our eyes on the prize. Thats just my opinion and most of you are mellowing me out and showing me that although the basis for my opinion is probably correct, I took it too far and too wordy.

cjm720
02-23-2010, 01:27 PM
"National Championship culture and emphasis"

We don't have a "NC culture" because we have never won one...see Kansas, N. Carolina, etc. How do you form a culture without the experience? You cannot.

Regarding "emphasis" - everything you wrote is complete conjecture. How many head coaches announce to the media or the message boards that the goal is to win a national championship. I'd say less than a handful, and those teams have already won a NC (well, maybe not in the long-run with Calipari...LOL).

We are certainly progessing towards a Final 4 and NC consideration, and am confident we'll see it within the decade.

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 01:32 PM
Again, you and AlaskaZagnut are trying to build a building out the the dust you can grab out of the air to come up with this concept that the whole program is a sham and it really isn't trying.

That is a lie. You are very mis-guided if you think that is what I think. Very misguided. If you want to think in ONLY black and white then fine. but not me. Just because I think there can be improvement to get to the next level, that doesn't mean I am not happy and that I think the entire program is a sham.

That is the most incorrect thing I have ever seen you post LIZF.

Houston Zag
02-23-2010, 01:32 PM
"National Championship culture and emphasis"

We don't have a "NC culture" because we have never won one...see Kansas, N. Carolina, etc. How do you form a culture without the experience? You cannot.

Regarding "emphasis" - everything you wrote is complete conjecture. How many head coaches announce to the media or the message boards that the goal is to win a national championship. I'd say less than a handful, and those teams have already won a NC (well, maybe not in the long-run with Calipari...LOL).

We are certainly progessing towards a Final 4 and NC consideration, and am confident we'll see it within the decade.

Well stated, but I'm not sure you have to have a National Championship to have a championship type culture. I think Gonzaga has a winning culture which is good, but again it does worry me when the BEST PLAYER/LEADER doesn't mention winning a NC or getting to the final four. Of course it could just be a meaningless statement, but that wouldn't be fun for me to talk about as I waste time at work.:o

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 01:34 PM
Sometimes as a Zag fan, I really think there is too much time in between games for fans to over analyze things. Seriously.....

But that is part of the fun of this entire 30 year ride for me as a Zag!!

U Zig, I Zag
02-23-2010, 01:37 PM
There is nothing wrong with wanting it and nothing wrong with vocalizing it, imho. Someone posted a video from 'Miracle' with the pregame speech. There wasn't a lot of, 'well, now fellas... we sure did make it now didn't we? Dontcha' you think we can just mail it from here on out?'

Obviously AZN's concern/comment was triggered by Matt's statement - oh well. I might not jump there myself, I just think that's more or less Matt's way. He doesn't seem to brag or be a showman. Maybe there is part of Matt that wants to say that out loud, but he just seems to humble for it. I bet John Wall would say it though: that kid shimmies down the court after he makes an assist. If you were new to the game you might think he invented passing. I am glad Matt isn't like that.

Finally, there are a lot of obvious things being bickered about here. You need to win your league (well, it helps), get S16, EE, FF, etc to get to the NC. We all know that. NC State, playing that game as a 7-game series probably wouldn't have won - even they know that. But it's win or go home and that's what makes the tourney so awesome! You have to believe and you have to BRING IT!

I always liked this, and was always glad it didn't say 'Try not to get hurt today' :D
http://www.cenedella.com/stone/archives/victory.gif

FieldHouseFishHouse
02-23-2010, 01:45 PM
I need to work on more concise posts. That way I don't waste anymore of Calliforniazaggin's time.

At least someone agrees with me though. I may sound harsh but I think it is just one thing that will help the program reach the next level. Maintain a championship culture and we will get it someday. Keep aiming in the right spot and sooner or later you will hit it. If you don't aim, its virtually impossible to hit the bulls eye. I would like to know they are at least aiming in the right spot.

I'm with you as well. I love the Zags, and I really appreciate the success they have had. However, in my time at GU and in Spokane I don't think I ever heard another fan say "This year we have a legit shot at a title". Even though we were grabbing 2, 3 and 4 seeds almost every year. One poster mentioned the "Cinderella mentality", I think quite a few fans (and maybe players and coaches as well, but can't I speak for them directly) are still getting used to being a good team, and are satisfied with that.
I want to be clear. Almost every year I have thought "If we make the round of 16, that will be a great finish and and a great accomplishment". Maybe I have a Cinderella mentality as well. I have enjoyed the team's succes thus fur and I will continue to enjoy it. If they only get to the second round this year I will not be disappointed.
But there is nothing wrong with wanting more, and nothing wrong with saying so.

DADoZAG
02-23-2010, 01:47 PM
I believe in one of the very first interviews I saw this year, Coach Few stated that he would stay at GU as long as his program was supported by the school and the community, and as long as he felt he had the chance to take the program “…to the next level.”

He’s won the league nine times straight, he’s gotten to the tourney every year, he’s gotten to the sweet sixteen and elite eight. The next level must be the final four and a national championship. Saying that winning a national championship isn’t a goal of Mark Few, his staff and his players, seems a bit off. Of course, that’s just my opinion.

The danger of trying to read too much into a single comment or a few comments, or perhaps trying to “know” the underlying motivation of a group of people never met by watching from the sidelines or on TV for a few hours a week for a couple of months, is that there is just so much that isn’t seen.

For instance, someone that is disappointed in how far the ZAGS have gone this year or last year and saying they “…want a championship” and creating for readers of this board a vision of this certain someone folding their arms and stomping their feet, could be interpreted by the readers that this someone is immature, someone that has never been the best at anything, never excelled to a championship themselves, and is a person very frustrated with their own life, trying to find others to fulfill their desires. But then, trying to discern so much from so little would be a bit off, wouldn’t it?

Go ZAGS! Win the WCC, then …on to the next level. What a great journey…

Zag 77
02-23-2010, 01:50 PM
Good grief it must have been a slow day for some people. This is not one of the dumbest threads I have ever read, but I will nominate it for 2010 Award for Taking an Innocent Comment and Blowing it Out of All Proportion

kitzbuel
02-23-2010, 01:51 PM
Was the NC Wolfpack the best team in the nation in 1983? Not even close. But they had a winning mentality and the motivation to win it all. That goes further than who is better on paper or a W/L column IMO.
Only 6 times in the last 26 years have teams seeded other than 1 or 2 won a national championship (including 6 seed NC St). 77% of the national championships have been won by a 1 or 2 seed.

The conclusion that I draw is that the higher seeded you can get your team, the better the chance to win. Gonzaga has steadily improved its talent and, accordingly, its seeding is steadily improving. The first six year of its 12 year run it averaged about an 8 seed. Its last 6 years it has averaged a 5.5 seed (you can graph the number from here and see it is indeed trending down to lower seeding). http://www.mcubed.net/ncaab/gonzaga/

I know you feel that heart can trump odds, but it obviously helps tremendously to have the odds in your favor, too.

JLGutrocks
02-23-2010, 01:52 PM
Actually Richard Fox, as the tournament was starting his senior year, when asked what his ultimate goal was as a zag, responded "to win my last game." You can't tell me that that is not every Zag's goal. And Foxy was the only one I've heard who wasn't afraid of the jinx of mentioning it.

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 01:57 PM
Saying that winning a national championship isn’t a goal of Mark Few, his staff and his players, seems a bit off.

I said it in bold letters. "Obviously they all want it" I know and believe they all want it. I just think the program is starting to be content with winning the conference and the Sweet 16. I believe we are consistently getting the talent to surpass that, so something needs to change somewhere because we are getting roughly the same results.

I am excited and extremely proud to be a ZAG!!! Every year. But I truly believe with the talent and coaching staff we have, we can win it all this year.

Zagsker
02-23-2010, 01:58 PM
Alaskazagnut and I are just asking that cinderella modesty to shift toward a more lofty goal. This isn't the program it was 10 years ago. Our best players/leaders should reflect that change. Maybe they do in the locker room. I don't know. I would imagine the topic has come up, but it isn't reflected in the fan base or in Matt B.'s latest statement.

I kinda agree with what you are saying..although taking Bouldin's comments in the way they were seems a bit off base...but the meat of what you guys are trying to get at makes sense.

ZagLawGrad
02-23-2010, 02:00 PM
I don't know what Matt was talking about for certain with that comment, not a clue.

But does anyone here know for absolutely certain that it was taken out of context?

Still don't understand the personal attacks on our Alaska brethren for speaking what's on his mind. Okay to disagree with him, but some take it a bit too far.

KOzag08
02-23-2010, 02:05 PM
You know, there is a lot of bantering back and forth and a lot of personal criticisms going on here, but I think we're losing focus on what's AlaskaZagNut is trying to say. I think he may be reading a little too much into Matty's comments, but he does have a point. This team and organization needs to have more of a Final 4/National Championship mentality. Maybe they do, and we're not seeing it, but when I tune in, I don't see the swagger that teams like Duke, Kansas, etc carry. I haven't seen it since we were a 3 seed and were knocked by UCLA in '06. That team had the confidence it takes to get there.

Gonzaga, I feel, is in a weird spot. We're not the cindarella team we were 11 years ago, but we're also not competing for a title. We're a solid program that the country loves because we've established ourselves as a top 20 program year-in and year-out. Of course we all want a National Title, but is it realistic? I think it can be, but it's almost as if someone needs to shake our players and tell them it's a viable possibility. These guys need to play with a chip on their shoulder and let us fans, and the nation know that being the best mid-major is not going to cut it.

KOzag08
02-23-2010, 02:07 PM
I mean, I love that we're a tourney team ever year, but don't you guys think we're better than a sweet 16 team? Or at least can be? ...

TheZagPhish
02-23-2010, 02:08 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MudSeDub_3k/SqV3iz6pGWI/AAAAAAAAAlk/08Tdza-PtNE/s320/blueberry+pancakes.jpg

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 02:16 PM
You know, there is a lot of bantering back and forth and a lot of personal criticisms going on here, but I think we're losing focus on what's AlaskaZagNut is trying to say. I think he may be reading a little too much into Matty's comments, but he does have a point. This team and organization needs to have more of a Final 4/National Championship mentality. Maybe they do, and we're not seeing it, but when I tune in, I don't see the swagger that teams like Duke, Kansas, etc carry. I haven't seen it since we were a 3 seed and were knocked by UCLA in '06. That team had the confidence it takes to get there.

Gonzaga, I feel, is in a weird spot. We're not the cindarella team we were 11 years ago, but we're also not competing for a title. We're a solid program that the country loves because we've established ourselves as a top 20 program year-in and year-out. Of course we all want a National Title, but is it realistic? I think it can be, but it's almost as if someone needs to shake our players and tell them it's a viable possibility. These guys need to play with a chip on their shoulder and let us fans, and the nation know that being the best mid-major is not going to cut it.

I think the program is just being content with winning the conference and getting to the Sweet 16. It is great to be in this position, but I believe the program needs to step it up and not just be content with our current success. Matt's unrehearsed immediate response provides a window (to me) into his honest attitude that he has achieved everything he wanted. This is what I am getting at. A Final Four or NC was not the first thing he thought of. Why was that?

Jedster
02-23-2010, 02:17 PM
Wow....

I want to see the context of the discussion he said "I have accomplished everything I have wanted while at Gonzaga". Context is everything. If he was having a discussion with a reporter about how he has grown as a basketball player from when he walked on campus as a freshman, to now being talked about as an NBA player, then saying "Yeah I have accomplished everything I wanted while at GU" can make some sense. However, if the question is: "You have gotten to the Sweet 16 twice and lost in the first round twice, do you feel you've accomplished everything you've wanted at GU?" then the answer takes on a whole different meaning.

Before you latch onto a one sentence answer and build up some elaborate reasons for the failings of this program to instill a national championship environment, you should probably evaluate the context of that answer, and please share it with us, so we can evaluate it fairly too.

Since it's the end of February and winter here in the PNW, me saying "I hope it rains today" sure has a lot different meaning than if I say it living in a location with drought conditions. Some may think me a bit weird to hope for more rain in the middle of winter....which I don't!

DADoZAG
02-23-2010, 02:30 PM
... I truly believe with the talent and coaching staff we have, we can win it all this year.

I would agree that if every player on this team plays their best, and if Mark Few and staff have a perfectly coached series of games, this team could win it all... as long as Kansas or 'Cuse doesn't play their best.

I respectfully disagree that the reason the ZAGS haven't won a championship YET is swagger, or talk, or chips on their shoulder or any other reason posed in this thread. I simply believe they haven’t yet gotten the breaks to coincide with the talent. But I also believe that if Mark Few stays, it will happen.

And once it does, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear Mark Few say that his goal is to win another, but not before then.

Go ZAGS!

lothar98zag
02-23-2010, 02:33 PM
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman4481l.jpg

Zag 77
02-23-2010, 02:41 PM
I nominate it for Most Perfect Simple Response to a Long-Winded Discussion of 2010

ZagLawGrad
02-23-2010, 02:45 PM
I nominate it for Most Perfect Simple Response to a Long-Winded Discussion of 2010

I'd rather hear him say something constructive.

23dpg
02-23-2010, 02:51 PM
You are off base IMO Alaska Zag.

As I've posted before, Gonzaga doesn't get the type of HS players that National Championships are built on. You need stud players going in to be dominant/lucky enough to win it all. GU has had one McD's all-American (Downs) in it's entire history.

You don't buy that angle? Maybe GU does such a great job of recruiting the hidden nuggets, they have the talent?

OK, NCAA winners also have another thing in common, multiple future first round/lottery picks and NBA players on the team. Look it up, the info has been presented by many before. This year's Kentucky team has at least 3 NBA first round picks on the team; 2 of which might be the top 2 players selected in the draft.

Look, I'm as pissed as anyone when GU loses, especially in the tourney. But this argument underscores what the HAVE done, and it's still remarkable.

lothar98zag
02-23-2010, 02:52 PM
I'd rather hear him say something constructive.
When building with wood, please use plywood and not OSB. You'll thank me later.

ZagLawGrad
02-23-2010, 02:55 PM
When building with wood, please use plywood and not OSB. You'll thank me later.

Still waiting...

Hoopaholic
02-23-2010, 03:04 PM
might I suggest:

Matt's answer was in regard to his personal goal setting as an INDIVIDUAL versus National Championship being a TEAM Goal....without knowing exactly what the ENTIRE conversation was I would suspect he answered it as it pertains to his personal goal as it pertains to what HE can control. Winning a NC is not an individual goal but a team goal.

As far as a program not "wanting it because they dont talk about it"...I find this nonsense...in playing college ball we ALWAYS set teams goals in incremental steps. Adjusting the goals as we advanced further...IE Goal 1: Win Title , once it appears that goal is attainable, we adjusted the goal to raising the bar for us to focus in on.......it is foolhardy to establish a goal of NC but one must first set the goal to get to the Dance, then readjust. All teams do this, including the NC State team in 1983 (go back and review quotes of Valvano in preseason newspapers...NOTHING about National Championship only about Getting to the Dance)

zaggernaut
02-23-2010, 03:04 PM
This is such an overreaction to an innocent little comment. During last season when we got off to such a great start, people overreacted to this (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?id=3766000&section=ncb).


"We have a possibility of going undefeated," guard Matt Bouldin said this week. "That's something all of us are thinking about."

I think its pretty obvious that Matt every other Zag who has played here want to win and their goal every year is to go as deep as they can in the tourney and make it to the final four. If you don't believe me, you could go back and watch the end of the UCLA - GU game back in 06 :vomit-smiley-007: and watch the reactions of the players.

Regardless, I'd rather have Matt say that he accomplished everything he came here to do than to say that his years here were a disappointment because we never won a national championship.

RenoZag
02-23-2010, 03:06 PM
I read the OP and then I read the bottom of the second page. . .glad I didn't go any further. . .

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 03:10 PM
You are off base IMO Alaska Zag.

As I've posted before, Gonzaga doesn't get the type of HS players that National Championships are built on. You need stud players going in to be dominant/lucky enough to win it all. GU has had one McD's all-American (Downs) in it's entire history.

You don't buy that angle? Maybe GU does such a great job of recruiting the hidden nuggets, they have the talent?

OK, NCAA winners also have another thing in common, multiple future first round/lottery picks and NBA players on the team. Look it up, the info has been presented by many before. This year's Kentucky team has at least 3 NBA first round picks on the team; 2 of which might be the top 2 players selected in the draft.

But we have beaten the odds many times before and we have broken the mold on the statistics that determine who is good enough to get into the Sweet 16 and the Elite 8. The fact that most champions have 1 or 2 first rounders doesn't automatically mean that our team can't win it. NC state had 10 losses and 1 NBA draftee that year. They broke the mold, arguably solely with motivation and belief in themselves. Just like our 1999 team willed themselves to win 2 more wins then they were predicted to. With the talent we now get and the high level staff we have, we can will ourselves to two more victories than the statistics say we should.

I hope the team doesn't believe the statistics.

23dpg
02-23-2010, 03:28 PM
Not 1 or 2 players...multiple.
North Carolina: Wayne Ellington, Danny Green, Tyler Hansbrough, Ty Lawson and soon to be Ed Davis and maybe Deon Thompson.

Kansas: Darrell Arthur, Mario Chambers, Brandon Rush, and soon to be Cole Aldrich and maybe a few others.

Florida: Corey Brewer, Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Marreese Speights, and Taureen Green

Florida: same

North Carolina: Rashad McCants, Sean May, Marvin Williams, Raymond Felton

UConn: Rudy Gay, Hilton Armstrong, Charlie Villaneuva, Josh Boone, Marcus Williams

and so on and so on and so on....see a pattern yet?

bartruff1
02-23-2010, 03:34 PM
I would pay money to hear you tell Matt that he just doesn't live up to your standards...how disappointed you are in him....or coach Few for that matter.... when you are in a hole, quit digging...

Ezag
02-23-2010, 03:41 PM
Hope Matt's not reading all the crap in this thread

ZagLawGrad
02-23-2010, 03:52 PM
Hope Matt's not reading all the crap in this thread

On the other hand, maybe it would be a good idea if he did?

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 03:52 PM
I would pay money to hear you tell Matt that he just doesn't live up to your standards...how disappointed you are in him....or coach Few for that matter.... when you are in a hole, quit digging...

that because I suggest that the team can get better in a particular way that it gets turned into hatred and vile demeaning comments towards our players. I heard in Matt's comments that he had achieved everything he wanted from Gonzaga. Then I merely wondered aloud on this board why a national championship was not one of them. Then it dawned on me this goes along with the problems they have with getting fired up and maintaining a high level of motivation.

I would in a heartbeat ask him why he answered that he had achieved everything he wanted, when we have not won a NC. It is not an insulting question because it was his words.

bartruff, you should get paid to hear anyone say those things to Matt. You made them up in your head, so you ask him those things. I have nothing in common with what you said.

You have a good imagination and you should be hired as a spin doctor for Obama or Palin. That way gross ridiculous lies about those you disagree with can sound plausible enough for others to believe. Take that paycheck and then look in the mirror.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-23-2010, 04:10 PM
"National Championship culture and emphasis"

We don't have a "NC culture" because we have never won one...see Kansas, N. Carolina, etc. How do you form a culture without the experience? You cannot.

Regarding "emphasis" - everything you wrote is complete conjecture. How many head coaches announce to the media or the message boards that the goal is to win a national championship. I'd say less than a handful, and those teams have already won a NC (well, maybe not in the long-run with Calipari...LOL).

We are certainly progessing towards a Final 4 and NC consideration, and am confident we'll see it within the decade.


If "National Championship Culture" equals the University of Kentucky program, I'll keep our WCC Championship culture. Gonzaga does something very special every year. They field nationally competitive teams with a lot of players who weren't recruited by the teams with national championship cultures. The players are generally good students and good human beings. The university works just as hard to develop them as people as it does to develop them as athletes.

I'll take the Gonzaga culture.

Jedster
02-23-2010, 04:15 PM
Then I merely wondered aloud on this board why a national championship was not one of them. Then it dawned on me this goes along with the problems they have with getting fired up and maintaining a high level of motivation.

I think where people got upset/bothered/irritated/etc...was that you did more then "wonder aloud" why a national championship was not one of their goals. From my perspective, you stated pretty emphatically that this team does not have a culture or emphasis on winning a national championship...and underlined it to boot. Further along you also said:


Maybe they have relegated their huge success to a few Tournament games and getting 1-2 guys every year into the NBA. Or maybe that 2-3 guys will go pro overseas and that the Sweet 16 is good enough and that the money influx to the University is what really matters.


I wasn't surprised that Bouldin did not say he wants a NC. A national championship is not in their daily vocabulary and it is not even in the forefront of Matt's mind as something he wants here at GU.

To me this is more than just wondering. Again, from my perspective, you basically called out Matt and the team and said they are content to rest on their laurels.

You also have stated that you want them to be more public with this goal. Not sure to what purpose? Whether they publicly state this is their goal or not will not make them work harder to achieve this goal. It may help to soothe and reassure some fans, but I don't see how professing their desire publicly will change things. I mean, my wife doesn't need me to tell her everyday that I love her. She believes it based on my actions. I see nothing in GU's actions to dispute the fact that one of their goals is to win a national title.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-23-2010, 04:17 PM
[QUOTE=Pleasant Peninsula;541436]I think they should set their sights on a Final Four, not necessarily a national championship. That is the one level they've not yet reached, and of course, if you make it that far, anything is possible, though I can hardly remember a team winning it all in their first trip to Final Four...
QUOTE]

UCONN did it in '99. They won a national championship during the school's first trip to the Final Four. They almost didn't make it to the Final Four. A certain Cinderella school with a name nobody could pronounce came within about 45 seconds of the upset.

Does anybody remember the name of that little school?

mdZag23
02-23-2010, 09:19 PM
that is a ridiculous post!

CB4
02-23-2010, 10:14 PM
Give it a rest. Bouldin wants a national championship as much as anyone. In retrospect he probably should have hinted that he has more goals to accomplish, although he probably answered the question without much thought. I doubt he even remembers answering the question at this point. Once again, give it a rest.

MickMick
02-23-2010, 10:30 PM
Mark Few is telling his guys to concentrate on beating the likes of USF and LMU. The last thing he wants hanging on their locker room wall is public quotes by Zag players talking about national championships.

alaskazagnut
02-23-2010, 10:49 PM
Mark Few is telling his guys to concentrate on beating the likes of USF and LMU. The last thing he wants hanging on their locker room wall is public quotes by Zag players talking about national championships.

That sounds like one of the best explanations IMO. I also agree that if he had time to itemize all his needs and wants prior to a immediate question, he would have answered it differently. But in his heart I believe he is both happy and proud of everything AND also hugely wants a NC before he leaves.

We still can!

GrizZAG
02-24-2010, 01:36 AM
My view is what our Alaska buddy was saying is that the first step of winning it all is thinking it and setting it as a goal.
Do you think when a champion golfer visualizes that shot he is hoping to get close? Nope, he is going for it every single time, just like Coach K, Bobby Knight, John Wooden and every other coach that pulls it off in the end.
Forget Matt's comments, the point has nothing to do with that. Yes our program does not have the recruiting horsepower of the establishment, but it certainly would have better position if we were flagrantly vocal about making it a targeted goal and challenge new kids to step up and be a part of this historic moment when it happens. We do know before you can make something happen you must think it first, right?
Quote from my Grandfather: "If you don't know where you are going, you probably won't get there"

Gonzaga has established respect on every level. Trust me, not Duke, NC, or even Kentucky really want to face the Zags because they do see them as a viable threat. I have this discussion regularly out east.

Maybe global warming will help Spokane eh? HA

DADoZAG
02-24-2010, 06:04 AM
My view is what our Alaska buddy was saying is that the first step of winning it all is thinking it and setting it as a goal.
…Quote from my Grandfather: "If you don't know where you are going, you probably won't get there" …

First, I’d agree with your Grandpa, but I’ll bet he’d also say something to the effect that every journey starts with a single step. And to CaliforniaZaggin’ and all others, if you don’t have a few minutes to waste, skip this post…

Speaking only for myself, what I got out of the thread was there was a feeling amongst some that Coach Few and staff were not projecting to the players a sense of urgency and a “need” to get to the final four and win a national championship, and if they did, all our dreams of watching the ZAGS cut down the nets on the first Monday in April might be realized.

Initiating the thought by AlaskaZagnut was a comment from Bouldin which was added to an “evidence bucket”, implying that there was some amount of other evidence supporting the position.

In my first post of the thread, a poorly written example was provided in effort to show how a few ZAG comments and a few moments of watching from afar could lead an individual to conclusions that, because of the lack of true supporting evidence, were simply too far indulged. I did not intend to accuse anyone of being an immature, insecure individual that is attempting to mute their own life’s frustration through the success of the ZAGS (okay maybe just a little bit of innuendo was intended, see apology below). The truth no doubt is far from that extrapolation, it was intended to be a simple example of the futility of the practice.

I will agree that Few and company do not publicly talk about getting to the last weekend of the year. The players accordingly follow suit. It is my OPINION that the coaching staff sets up a series of attainable goals for the team, and pushes the team to focus only on those goals, one at a time. It is not Few’s way to encourage swagger, but he pushes for toughness. He isn’t one to sway his team toward trash talking, or having “a chip on their shoulder”, but as I’ve repeated to the readers of this board probably far too often, he gets “more from less” better than any coach in the game today.

Is Coach Few perfect? No, I feel he’d be the first to admit that. But this program has continued to grow despite the shortcomings of the league, despite the occasional early departures, despite injuries all of which would no doubt have somewhat maimed other programs in similar situations. He isn’t building a mill, churning out victories at the expense of all, including the players, he’s building a nationally recognized and respected program the likes of which cannot be found. If you don’t believe that, you aren’t paying attention, in my opinion.

I couldn’t count all the threads and posts on this board regarding putting too much expectations on players, and this is a message board. Imagine if coaching staff were doing it directly to the players. I might agree that there could be a game or two that, with that pressure of expectation, the ZAGS might pull victory from defeat. But the overall cost is far too great. I’ve seen what that pressure can do, I’ve felt what that pressure can do, and yes, unfortunately, I’ve used it myself on occasions of weakness to my later personal embarrassment and the team’s detriment. This isn’t the pros, these are young men, and the ZAGS will never be a mill, at least I hope not.

To AlaskaZagnut and all who follow the reasoning that a major gap in Few’s coaching strategy is not creating an urgency or need in his players to reach the final weekend and win a national championship, I apologize if my counter posts were or are disrespectful. I simply do not agree and find the position without merit, which I will attempt to offer as my response to similar such conditions in the future.

I will agree with AlaskaZagnut on one thing, our posts are too long.

Enjoy each and every step in this journey.

Go ZAGS!

NovaZag
02-24-2010, 06:44 AM
Just watching Few's pre/post-game interviews, and reading his comments on games and player performances, I get the impression that he's concerned about this team being overcofident. It's like he builds up the opponents so that the players will respect who they're playing, and therefore bring greater effort. When we don't play hard, then anyone can beat us. I think he wants this team to understand the fact that inferior effort will lose to inferior talent. And by downplaying praise generated by fans and the media toward th Zags, such Final Four/National Championship discussion, Few is cautioning against his team playing cocky, not putting forth their best effort because of their superior talent.

Note: sorrry if this point was brought up in the other thread-- I didn't read through its entirety.

gamagin
02-24-2010, 08:05 AM
Few has been to the NCAA's more than a dozen times. The most any Zag player has gotten there is four.

Is it logical therefore to submit that perhaps he knows more about getting there than anyone from the GUB ? More than any other coach in the school's history ? Or any player ?

All the motivational tapes in the world, from Napoleon Hill to Tony Robbins won't get you to first base if you don't have the desire to achieve something; if you don't see it and go for it at every opportunity.

GU, under Few, is a living, breathing example of that desire, year after year, including this one. The record speaks for itself. Everything else is noise.

To fail to understand that is to fail to understand the very basics of this program.

Reborn
02-24-2010, 08:12 AM
I think a thread that gets over 70 fans to participate and share their thoughts and feelings, and over 2000 fans to read it, is a great thread. Obviously fans have some strong feelings about his idea. I think there were outstanding posts on both sides of the argument, posts that bloggers put a lot of thought and time into. I personally enjoyed it very much. It was good reading. Obviously our fans have very strong feelings and when a poster shoots some pretty strong criticisms against the two brightest stars on the team (FEW and MATT) then he should expect his ideas to be strongly challenged.

What I enjoyed the most about that thread was the debate over whether there should be public conversation by Coach and players about reaching the Final 4. I also enjoyed the debate over whether Gonzaga is the type of program that can consistently have making it to the final 4 as a realistic goal. Thanks to all who participated.

I always enjoy a heated debate/discussion.

lothar98zag
02-24-2010, 08:16 AM
This topic could be a good discussion. It wasn't yesterday. I think it could work in the off-season when everyone's a bit more relaxed.