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Birddog
02-19-2010, 05:02 AM
As bad as I felt last night, I knew I'd get over it, and today when I looked at the box score I saw the reason. http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2009-2010/gonmb26.html
Last night I said Sacre played soft, but he probably wasn't as soft as he was frustrated. His stat line is pretty good except for points, mostly missed on contested shots and weak put back attempts. I thought Will was better at passing out of the double team in his short time on the court, but the open player still missed the shot. The LMU game plan vs Harris worked well, he was defended every time he had the ball and denied the operating room he has become used to. Bouldin didn't have nearly as many opportunities to either post up his man or to make his patented hesitation move to the hoop. In a nutshell, LMU really played great defense against the Zags.

The Zags had at least one shot clock violation and they were defended till late in the clock on at least 3 other occasions and I believe they all led to misses. Bouldin was nailed on a 5 sec. violation. All was the result of good defense on LMU's part.

At no time, did I think LMU shot incredibly hot, but OTOH, the Zags on many occasions just missed open looks, and that was clearly the difference. The Zags did take some ill advised shots, like tossing up 3's early in the possession, but most were open looks that didn't fall.
Zags are 21 of 61 (34.4%), LMU is 27 of 58 (46.6%) Rebounds: Zags 38, LMU 37, Assists: GU 12, LMU 19, Turnovers: GU 11, LMU 10, Blocks: GU 6, LMU 5, Steals: GU 4, LMU 4.

GU was mostly even in all categories except assists and defensive rebounds and that was the difference along with shooting %. Last night the Zags were frustrated cold shooting team and the frustration led to some defensive breakdowns too.

jazzdelmar
02-19-2010, 05:39 AM
all due respect, BD, that sounds like Few-spin. Exactly what he will say today I am sure. But my lying eyes saw a team that was flat, uninspired and disinterested and a staff that was befuddled. The stats u cite are irrefutable, but they are the outcome not the root problems. Fews subbing is flabbergating to me. Up 10 he throws in 3 subs. Among many issues, that has to confuse the players. Dont discount too, that LMU is mainly a bunch of gritty LA and NYC kids with nada to lose. They played that way.

bigblahla
02-19-2010, 05:43 AM
all due respect, BD, that sounds like Few-spin. Exactly what he will say today I am sure. But my lying eyes saw a team that was flat, uninspired and disinterested and a staff that was befuddled. The stats u cite are irrefutable, but they are the outcome not the root problems. Fews subbing is flabbergating to me. Up 10 he throws in 3 subs. Among many issues, that has to confuse the players. Dont discount too, that LMU is mainly a bunch of gritty LA and NYC kids with nada to lose. They played that way.

Agree, +1.

kitzbuel
02-19-2010, 05:55 AM
Jazz and Birdog, I'm not sure you aren't both talking about the same thing. BD described what they did (or didn't do) . Jazz is describing why. If the team doesn't play inspired, motivated ball they end up having an average outing and being beatable.

Virginia Zags Fan
02-19-2010, 06:03 AM
No doubt the team was flat, and that is why Few WAS subbing. I think he sensed it right off and was looking for somebody, anybody, that could lite a spark. Manny did that last game. He was doing it again last night for a while, but had little help. For example, Few brought Kong in to be the "Microwave", unfortunately, the power was disconnected. He brought Will back in, but he was beat to the hoop.

All is not lost. To lose by the margin they did when playing as poorly as they did, is not that bad. If they were playing Duke they would have lost by 30.

jazzdelmar
02-19-2010, 06:06 AM
this could be the all time pollyanna quote here:

"All is not lost. To lose by the margin they did when playing as poorly as they did, is not that bad. If they were playing Duke they would have lost by 30."


um, we did.

Timeout!
02-19-2010, 06:50 AM
I don't think I've ever seen a Zag team play so poorly since I became a fan in '97. That was NOT anything like the USF game, b/c we at least could do something on offense agains the Dons. Last night's game was inexplicable, plain and simple.

I didn't recognize the team on the floor last night. It was a horrendous performance that made us look very, very bad. Besides Manny providing some quality minutes during the first half, there were NO positives to take away from last night. If anything, it was the Duke game X2. I never want to think about this game ever again. I'd argue it was the worst performance by a Zag team -- in history. No excuse. Erase it from memory and move on.

The question is, which Zag team shows up for the WCC Tourney??? :confused:

cjm720
02-19-2010, 06:51 AM
[QUOTE=jazzdelmar;539821]Fews subbing is flabbergating to me. Up 10 he throws in 3 subs. Among many issues, that has to confuse the players.QUOTE]

He either subs too little or too much. Few can never win in many eyes...

I must admit I loved seeing that rotation - Sacre, Harris, Arop, Gray and GJ - next year's lineup without Meech. It told me that Few was workign on next season/March and thought he had the game in the bag...turns out it didn't quite work out like that, but I don't get the sense players were confused. They just missed shots and didn't exhibit the same level of D as the past few games. I would have like to see us attack Teel more with his 4 fouls.

Still have to give some credit to LMU.

Go Zags!!!

Birddog
02-19-2010, 07:18 AM
Up 10 he throws in 3 subs. Among many issues, that has to confuse the players.
That bit of coaching by Few made me wonder too. Foster came in just before the 1st media TO(16:03) with the Zags leading 9 to 7. In the next 2 mins and 16 seconds, He fouls LMU on an attempted block, He kicks out a pass to Gray for a 3 (assist), he gets an RB and a layup, and a block, all in 2:16. Score now 19 to 10 Zags at the 13:47 mark Few subs in Sacre, Arop, and Olynyk. Olynyk hits a tray to go up by 10. Lead is down to 4 at 9:52. Foster comes in. The lead wavers between 5 and 7 for the next 3 mins and when Foster subs outwith one TO and one A, it is 6 at 5:59. From that point on, the lead starts to evaporate until Zags lead by 3 at the half, and oh didn't the Zags mess up the end of half play again?

It sounds like I'm saying Foster should have seen more time last night, and I guess I am. He played pretty good I thought. Coincidentally or not, we either extended or held the lead while Will was on the court in the first half.
Foster doesn't see the floor again till 6:49 of the 2nd, Zags down 12. In the next 1:51, Bouldin misses a 3, Kong hits a FT, misses a layup and a 3. Foster and Kong sub out with LMU still up 12 at 4:58 and the rest is history.

Baldwinzag
02-19-2010, 07:26 AM
That bit of coaching by Few made me wonder too.

In all honesty, there is no other way around it. The players nor the Coaches are perfect and both are just as susceptible to a mental lapses at this point in the season. Following a loss like that, the Coaches should be held accountable as should the players. I think it was more than obvious that Coach Few was "experimenting" during the 1st half and acted as if the game was in the bad. How else could anyone explain his extemely odd and inexplicable rotations before halftime, especially when we built a 10 point lead and GJ rolls in all of sudden? Hmmm....they are human and deserve to be questioned after last night's debacle. The Coaching along with the Player's motivation was highly suspect and clearly off. Both parties need to reexamine their priorities or there is a very good chance we'll go 0-2 in L.A.

gamagin
02-19-2010, 07:32 AM
Any opponent willing to play hard, intelligent basketball every second of the 40 minutes allotted both sides in a given game, can win that game.

We don't get that yet.

If/when we do, we can beat anybody.

If we don't get that, anybody can beat us.

__________________

Ezag
02-19-2010, 08:00 AM
Any opponent willing to play hard, intelligent basketball every second of the 40 minutes allotted both sides in a given game, can win that game.

We don't get that yet.

If/when we do, we can beat anybody.

If we don't get that, anybody can beat us.

__________________

+1

.....Having a high tourney seed is important, however, how bad we play against lower echelon teams is more important and a telling sign

cjm720
02-19-2010, 10:51 AM
Any opponent willing to play hard, intelligent basketball every second of the 40 minutes allotted both sides in a given game, can win that game.

We don't get that yet.

If/when we do, we can beat anybody.

If we don't get that, anybody can beat us.

__________________

We always play to the level of opponent (maybe not Duke, LOL). It's been this way for years...

primal23
02-19-2010, 11:10 AM
The problem is that this team, if in the WCC tourney, plays to the lvl of the opp then its at large city. Which in turn will be 1st round out. This loss may just have poked a huge hole in the idea of a long run in the NCAA. Now IMHO IF they get to the S16 w/ as young of a team as this I would be thrilled, but you never know who will show up, or like last night if they even care enough to show. LMU won on heart not skill.

bballbeachbum
02-19-2010, 11:27 AM
on being flat...we were up 19-10, so did not show up flat to me...but we did lose it during the game, clearly, and that's its own problem, a different one imo: it comes too easy early sometimes in the WCC, then this team forgets what created the lead in the first place, and poof! the intensity slips away just that much, and POW! We've seen this happen at different games this year.

Revealed is an underlying lack of respect for the WCC opponent I think, which is THE Achilles heel for us in the WCC, even tho every expert is quick to point out how crappy the WCC is and that we should just be rolling these dudes (don't listen to that bull!!!)...the opposite perspective, sincerely believed, is actually required from us to win. REQUIRED!

The WCC is NOT WEAK! LMU, not weak. St. Mary's, not weak. Pepperdine, not weak. Et Cetera. no more evidence required for me, learned it years ago, don't care what the "experts" say, and we're learning it again in spades right now. I am in the heavy minority on this one, I know. Oh well.......

GO TEAM ZAGS!!!

GonzagaSwagga
02-19-2010, 12:05 PM
on being flat...we were up 19-10, so did not show up flat to me...
Agreed. It took a minute to get going, but then they started to roll and pushed the score to 19-10 on a three from Gray. Immediately after that Few subbed Sacre, Kelly, and Arop in for Foster, Harris, and Gray...I'm not a master strategist, but can someone give me a reason why you would sit a player (Gray) RIGHT after he has made two 3s in the previous 60 seconds? I'm not able to get over this, and it's frustrating.

dim4sum
02-19-2010, 03:51 PM
With Meech in the game, there is a feeling of offensive inertia. Few should do the right thing and play as starters his five best players, one of whom is now
Manny Arop--period. Sacre and Meech must be demoted. With Kelly and Manny replacing them, the offense should take off, and it gives Kelly the opportunity to iron out the jitters, since he often fouls or turns it over when he enters cold off the bench.

jazzdelmar
02-19-2010, 04:02 PM
With Meech in the game, there is a feeling of offensive inertia. Few should do the right thing and play as starters his five best players, one of whom is now
Manny Arop--period. Sacre and Meech must be demoted. With Kelly and Manny replacing them, the offense should take off, and it gives Kelly the opportunity to iron out the jitters, since he often fouls or turns it over when he enters cold off the bench.


big +1 on this....will never never happen...few is too stubborn

titopoet
02-20-2010, 10:25 AM
Reflecting on this loss and the other two bad losses (Duke and San Fran) I don't think the team was flat, but anxious. What I saw was two points I will make.

1. They missed layup after layup. Not only did they miss shots they normally do, they missed them hitting the back of the rim. A certain sign of anxiety. Then they started to press. (In a sense, they tried too hard.) I could almost see them thinking "Oh no, not again." They they lost

2. I have had this feeling before the game, but I am starting to wonder about Elias Harris. He is not explosive as he has been. The last few games he has not been what he was earlier in the season. If fact, he has not shown his explosion since playing at San Diego. I wonder how much he got hurt in that game when he fell on his back.

gamagin
02-20-2010, 10:41 AM
Reflecting on this loss and the other two bad losses (Duke and San Fran) I don't think the team was flat, but anxious. What I saw was two points I will make.

1. They missed layup after layup. Not only did they miss shots they normally do, they missed them hitting the back of the rim. A certain sign of anxiety. Then they started to press. (In a sense, they tried too hard.) I could almost see them thinking "Oh no, not again." They they lost

2. I have had this feeling before the game, but I am starting to wonder about Elias Harris. He is not explosive as he has been. The last few games he has not been what he was earlier in the season. If fact, he has not shown his explosion since playing at San Diego. I wonder how much he got hurt in that game when he fell on his back.

re: 1 & 2: what I see and believe is our opponents are simply clamping down, double-teaming and essentially tieing up EH & MB at every opportunity. LMU simply put as many people as needed to stop our drives and devoted the rest of their manpower to harass MB.

I think they figured without EH & MB others wouldn't or couldn't step up and make them do otherwise. And it appears to be working. One guy pushes RS around and the rest double down on the ball carrier.

Conversely, we have pretty much NOT gone after our oppponent's best players and made their lives miserable the past few games, and particularly the last two losses.

This Pepp guy went off for what, 37, last game ? Tonight we will see if that will be greatly discouraged, or we stick to our guns and let them think they can stay with us. Like before.

I'm thinking we pay attention from now on out, but I thought that last game.

re harris' back. I don't think he's anything other than frustrated. working on his outside shot. IF the open guys & RS don't step up, nothing can be done to stop the double teams.

MickMick
02-20-2010, 10:49 AM
I'm fine with the substitutions.

Bouldin and Gray put in a lot of minutes and struggled offensively the entire time they were in.

The entire team, except for Arop, couldn't throw it in the ocean.
Very, very simple reason why they lost.

This thread is full of some lousy analysis in my opinion. Trying to make it more complex than it really is. LMU played good defense. Zags couldn't hit their shots.

See? Simple.......