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View Full Version : Who do you redsthirt??



Zagster
04-27-2007, 05:15 PM
With all the talent the Zags will have next year and only so such playing time, who would you redshirt and why?

BobZag
04-27-2007, 05:25 PM
Only possibilities are Sacre or Foster so to develop further. That's it. Don't mention Austin Daye; he'll have a significant impact next season.

Angelo Roncalli
04-27-2007, 05:29 PM
My prediction is that no one will redshirt, unless it's for a medical reason.

Zagster
04-27-2007, 05:32 PM
They are both true raw post players with size. Does that mean that we go 6-9 in the post with Theo and Kuso or does Josh play the post instead of PF? Or a combo of each at post and PF?

BobZag
04-27-2007, 05:36 PM
They are both true raw post players with size. Does that mean that we go 6-9 in the post with Theo and Kuso or does Josh play the post instead of PF? Or a combo of each at post and PF?

It means neither are likely to redshirt. ;)

btzag
04-27-2007, 05:38 PM
I agree with Angelo. If Foster would have redshirted it would have been last year and he obviously did not want to. Sacre's comments the past year seem to indicate that he wants to help out immediately and he's definitely got the bulk on him to physically compete. Gray will be needed as a guard no matter how sparingly and there's no way you redshirt Daye as Bob mentioned.

jpwils
04-27-2007, 07:07 PM
My feeling is that due to a variety of circumstances, including talent with
the incoming freshman class, nobody redshirts. Depth. Choices. Fouls to give up. Matchup flexibility. Ability to go for blocked shots. Variety of defensive looks. More physical approach to defense. Coach Giacoletti. Heytvelt more productive at PF with certain matchups.

Sacre comes on second half of season. Daye is a budding star. Gray is productive immediately. Foster is a difference-maker on both defense and offense. Davis is pressed by Daye and responds. Kuso continues to improve.

Final Four potential on this team!

J-Mac Zag Forever
04-27-2007, 07:37 PM
Sacre will need quality min next season. Kuso graduates and if Josh goes pro we will need Sacre and Foster at the 5.
Sacre needs to be ready.

Kuso, Sacre, and Foster at the Five

Josh and Theo at the Four.

Pendo, Micah,Daye and at the Three.

Boulden, Gray and Brown at the Two.

Pargo, with Bouldin supporting at Point.

Gurganious a lock down defender and special teams.
oops forgot this isn't football.

lothar98zag
04-27-2007, 07:51 PM
If LG is not healthy again, maybe apply for a 2nd (medical) redshirt...

Other than that, nobody.

DrDrivel
04-27-2007, 09:36 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion we're going to see the reversal of the erstwhile trend relating to college vs. professional performance. Up to now, Gonzaga players (in the most recent stretch of success) have performed spectacularly as college players, seeming to max out on innate potential, and then faltered as professionals (for whatever reason).

I think this is going to turn around soon. I think we're going to see people playing roles in college that get them drafted, if perhaps not heralded. And then the opportunities of a pro system will allow them to fully flourish into studs - much like how players like James Worthy or Gilbert Arenas were average to above-average college players because they were never showcased and then because superstars at the next level.

RebornZag
04-28-2007, 09:00 AM
It's pretty early to be talking about that since I haven't heard how this team is playing together, but what the heck it's Saturday, April 28th and it's fun to think about it. So far I think we have 13 guys so I'd probably red shirt one person. The biggest question mark for me is LG. How healthy is he, and how much will he be able to play? I think the red shirt is between LG and Gray. We have an abundance of talent at the 2-3 positions. I think the main question for Gray is can he handle the ball and run the offense as a back-up point guard? Can he defend?

Regarding Sacre or Foster red shirting, I kind of feel like BZ. One of these guys could red shirt. I am looking forward to the battles between our post players because I think they will be very intense. I believe that if Kuso can not improve offensively that he will get edged out by both Foster and Sacre. Kuso will be a Senior and if he can't begin to handle the ball better, catch passes that he needs to catch and stuff, then I'd replace him. I like Kuso a lot, and he has the passion I love, but he really did hurt us in tough games. When a team doesn't have to defend a post player it completely takes away our desire to drive to the basket (thus it illiminates Pargo's game). If you can't drive then guards are able to defend our guards more closely, thus taking away our 3 pt shooting...this is exactly what Indiana did to us. I also think that because we got outrebounded by them (Indiana) by 15 boards suggests that we really DO need to look to other guys other than Kuso. I sincerely do not believe that Kuso can compete at the highest level. He has no hands.

Nevtelen
04-28-2007, 10:43 AM
LG can't redshirt another year, he's already used his 1 rs year for the injury and Gray will probably be needed because he's a guard and we're getting a little low at the guard positions. Plus, Gray is clearly physically ready to play D-I.

There really isn't anyone you could redshirt in this bunch, if you ask me, unless it's Foster (maybe).

Bulldog
04-28-2007, 11:47 AM
This could be the year we have been looking forward to. No redshirts, throw the whole division at them and don't stop. A national championship would be there for the taking if everyone is healthy and playing and throw in a little luck and there we are. The Zag's will be a target for every other team in the country.
Can't wait.
I just hope the football team wins the Rose bowl, just to top it off.

tyra
04-28-2007, 11:49 AM
It IS too early to tell who (and if) we red shirt anyone. But it is NOT to early to dissect the playing time conundrum. If we do NOT red shirt anyone, there simply isn't enough PT to distribute to all our talented players in any fashion that resembles Coach Few's years (and that has been talked about on this board). I persist in believing that he will not play 12 guys for a lot of minutes on a regular basis. I'd be delighted to be disabused of this notion but so far, no one has.

lothar98zag
04-28-2007, 02:01 PM
LG can't redshirt another year, he's already used his 1 rs year for the injury and Gray will probably be needed because he's a guard and we're getting a little low at the guard positions. Plus, Gray is clearly physically ready to play D-I.

There really isn't anyone you could redshirt in this bunch, if you ask me, unless it's Foster (maybe).
The NCAA has been known to hand out a 2nd redshirt year for medical reasons.

Rangerzag
04-28-2007, 02:26 PM
The NCAA has been known to hand out a 2nd redshirt year for medical reasons.

Is it a medical redshirt because the student has a doctorate by the time he is done with school???
;);););)

NorthWestZag
04-28-2007, 02:52 PM
i don't think Few is going to run this team like North Carolina next year where we rotate players in and out all the time. The unkown factor is injury's, which were a problem last year.

I am glad we have 13 solid players right now but some of them are going to be weeded out early. LG, Brown, Gray, Sacre, Foster, Theo, maybe Daye, all great players and great Zags but some of them will be weeded out quick and spend time in the "dog-house." Because I think Few is going to ride this team on Pargo, Bouldin, Heytvelt, and maybe Micah. I think he wants to keep them in as much as possible.

Birddog
04-28-2007, 03:04 PM
A medical redshirt (extra year) is usually applied for and granted after a player has used his regular eligibility. They are only granted for special circumstances.

Heytvelt will not be going Pro anywhere next year IMO. It would take a breakout of major proportions for him to gain NBA 1st round interest. Overseas is a possibility, but he would not get big $$$$ (Euros).

It's a little premature to be talking Final 4 in 08.

Birddog

Bocco
04-28-2007, 08:31 PM
It's a little premature to be talking Final 4 in 08.
Birddog

It might be little premature, but its April, and its fun to speculate and hope, especially since its still six plus months until we see them on the court.

Back to the original question - barring an injury I do not see anyone in the incomming class redshirting next year, its just something you do not see with 4-5 star recruits. The of the returning players Foster would be a possibility, but last year would have been the more likely one for him to redshirt and that did not happen. The only other possibility would be LG if he does not heal completely from his back injury, and if that is the case I suspect that means the injury is serious enough that he won't play again.

MickMick
04-28-2007, 11:27 PM
i don't think Few is going to run this team like North Carolina next year where we rotate players in and out all the time. The unkown factor is injury's, which were a problem last year.

I am glad we have 13 solid players right now but some of them are going to be weeded out early. LG, Brown, Gray, Sacre, Foster, Theo, maybe Daye, all great players and great Zags but some of them will be weeded out quick and spend time in the "dog-house." Because I think Few is going to ride this team on Pargo, Bouldin, Heytvelt, and maybe Micah. I think he wants to keep them in as much as possible.

I have to agree with you. And since a minimum of 3 very good players are going to get minimal playing time, a redshirt for one or two would be the smart move.....and it may boil down to the player that agrees to it more than the one that makes the most sense.

Take an objective look at the situation. Did you suspect two years ago that Josh would redshirt? How would you compare the incoming crop with freshman Josh? He was, after all, a 3 time high school player of the year. Roy Williams only made a visit to Clarkston to say hello. Yet...he still redshirted. I see many here that have high regard for Heytvelt's game. What did that extra year of practice against the likes of Batista and Turiaf do for him? Conversely, how would he have looked against Hansborough in the NIT tipoff WITHOUT the forementioned "extra" practice season?

Many have already painted Gray, Daye, and Sacre as significant freshman contributers. Anyone recall how Pargo looked as a freshman? When I write of that freshman campaign realisticaly, the most common reply is that freshman point guards ALWAYS have difficulty making the transition to college ball. Hmmmm...my point exactly. Pargo was a turnover machine as a freshman. His improvement as a sophmore was remarkable. And although I don't see him as an All American (as some here do), I am a far cry from my original thinking that he was a bust heading into his sophmore campaign. This is a guy that would have definately benefited the program as a 5th year senior. Don't believe for one moment that he would have been in the NBA before then.

This all makes me wonder how good Bouldin will truly become. I personally believe that the only Zag freshman I have seen that surpassed Bouldin's freshman play was Adam Morrison...and that is by a slim margin (yes I know that Blake Stepp had some solid freshman play as well). Further, I would not call the freshman play of either to be consistently great, but still of value to the team as significant contributers. Both showed flashes of huge potential. Morrison lived up to it. I think Bouldin will as well. I don't believe it is realistic to expect every kid to make the transition as quickly as these two did.

Now you can offer up Brandon Wright, Kevin Durant, and Greg Oden as examples of how my thinking is flawed, but I believe that Austin Daye is the only incoming recruit that remotely approximates the 3 mentioned "NBA ready" kids. Further, it still took a half season for them to really get it going. Indeed the Zags were fortunate that they played their "tough" schedule in pre conference play. Imagine how the Zags would have fared against UNC or Texas in March. The fact of the matter is that we caught those freshman laden teams very early in the season.

Just offering an alternative argument that red shirting a player or two is not only possible, but probably the right thing to do

J-Mac Zag Forever
04-29-2007, 01:01 AM
Smart guy that Mick Mick. I agree with everything.

brasszag
04-29-2007, 09:10 AM
I'm of the opinion that redshirting is almost always a great idea for your true student-athlete.

You get a year to physically mature, practice in your team's system at the NCAA level, but don't have the stress of game performance on top of the world of stresses that come with the College transition.

Also in hitting the books hard during that redshirt year, that means that the next 3-4 years the academic workload can be moderated - and more significant effort can be expended on the court.

It's a win-win for the school and the player.

Nevtelen
04-29-2007, 11:56 AM
There are some guys, though, that will only get better through playing in games. I don't think Pargo would have had the sophmore season he had without having played as a freshman (yes, he might not have had the rough freshman season, either, but I doubt, for example, that any amount of practice would have fixed turnover issues - that kind of stuff needs to be sorted out in a game).