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View Full Version : Pac 10 Expansion--I know, I know



realtydog
02-10-2010, 08:45 AM
much talked about and not likely--but I'm tired of "our conference is perfect for us" statement----tired of only one good game in conference at home--was Loyola then Santa Clara...then Pepp...then St. Mary's.. back to Pepp...now SMC etc..

My biggest question is if the Pac 10 move starts a domino effect on other conferences---WAC, Mountain West and so on---I like what the Big East has shown---that you can have non-football schools within a high conference--maybe the WAC (insearch of $$) adds some non-football schools after BSU and Fresno bail to the Mountain West to fill the void of BYU and Utah....grabbing here, but who knows? This could change the conference landscape---our other sports are improving---could be very cool---hate to say it but the WAC has higher RPI than WCC 9 out of 10 years (and without GU it would be 100% of the time)

webspinnre
02-10-2010, 08:53 AM
I'd prefer to play in a conference that has other small private schools of like-minded philosophy.

realtydog
02-10-2010, 09:00 AM
I am not talking about going to the California Penal League--why do you prefer small, private---not bashing, just interested in your thoughts

GUZagDenver
02-10-2010, 09:04 AM
Colin Cowherd discussed this on his radio show today. He was talking about Pac-10 expansion, and some GU fan emailed in saying that Gonzaga should be added to the Pac-10 and he ripped the guy....rightfully so!!

Why would the Pac-10 want any school without a football team? Football is where the big money is, not basketball. Basketball has done great things for our tiny school, but we have no place in the Pac-10 with schools like UCLA and USC. The Big East is a different landscape, they have 16 teams, so they have enough programs with big time football to make the conference relevant. Remember, the conference has to want you, not the other way around. The WAC doesn't even want Gonzaga. We bring nothing to the table financially. If you think our basketball program is big in the eyes on conference commissioners, you are crazy. It's all dollars and cents, and these are in football.

former1dog
02-10-2010, 09:12 AM
Realty,

If you want to know what people think about this topic, do a forum search for the 20 other threads discussing the exact same thing, including one from just last week.

Give it a rest already. Sheesh.

realtydog
02-10-2010, 09:13 AM
is an option for GU--said that they might cause a ripple effect---I agree that the Pac 10 will go for a large state school---Colorado, Utah...

I also agree that the biggest $$ is in football---but there is a sh&tload of it in basketball too---ESPN CBS FSN all pay to have games on throughout the week---Big East is the basketball beast right now---and other conferences see that they make money in the fall and the winter---why is that not the best financial model? Think of a Mountain West conference with 8 football teams and 12 teams for other sports

TexasZagFan
02-10-2010, 09:19 AM
I'd prefer to play in a conference that has other small private schools of like-minded philosophy.

I like the fact that our football team has been undefeated since 1941. ;)

realtydog
02-10-2010, 09:19 AM
fine----I can live with either decision---but stop the #####ing and complaining about how dead 90% of the home games are--if we watched or went to the games with the feeling that GU could fall it would lead to more excitment---that is why Wake was good and St Mary's will be loud---most of the crowd has become apathetic--even students---remember the non-sellout playoff games the Braves had after their long run---I watch for and wish that the WCC wins more games---a fan of all teams outside of league---but face it---if Pepp comes back St. mary's will tail off---it has been that way for the 20 years I have been following it----Sheesh

whatazag
02-10-2010, 09:31 AM
A much simpler solution would be for the other teams in the WCC to get better basketball programs. This is already happening, slowly. If we are lucky, the WCC could get its conference RPI consistently up in the 6-8 range, and then there would be no good reason to want to leave.

Angelo Roncalli
02-10-2010, 09:32 AM
This thread is a re-treaded exercise in futility.

The Pac-10 presidents will never agree to admit a school that isn't a major academic research institution. They will not admit a religious school, either. It won't happen. Period. Someone will mention religious schools in the Big-East--religious schools were the backbone of the Big East (Georgetown, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, Villanova, Boston College) when the conference was founded. For those reasons, BYU will never be a Pac-10 member and neither will Boise State.

This blog piece mentions the research institution angle. It's correct. It also speculates about Gonzaga in the Pac-10. That won't happen.

http://www.laobserved.com/intell/2010/02/weighing_pac-10_expansion.php.

If the Pac-10 expands, it will be for two main reasons, money and market exposure. The money will come from adding a conference championship game in football, not from adding a private school with a basketball team. Utah and Colorado offer significant new market exposure in locations in which there's little Pac-10 presence. Those are the only two schools that I see that make any real sense for the Pac-10 to add. Gonzaga would no new market penetration.

DenDiegoZag
02-10-2010, 09:48 AM
This thread is a re-treaded exercise in futility.

The Pac-10 presidents will never agree to admit a school that isn't a major academic research institution. They will not admit a religious school, either. It won't happen. Period. Someone will mention religious schools in the Big-East--religious schools were the backbone of the Big East (Georgetown, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, Villanova, Boston College) when the conference was founded. For those reasons, BYU will never be a Pac-10 member and neither will Boise State.

This blog piece mentions the research institution angle. It's correct. It also speculates about Gonzaga in the Pac-10. That won't happen.

http://www.laobserved.com/intell/2010/02/weighing_pac-10_expansion.php.

If the Pac-10 expands, it will be for two main reasons, money and market exposure. The money will come from adding a conference championship game in football, not from adding a private school with a basketball team. Utah and Colorado offer significant new market exposure in locations in which there's little Pac-10 presence. Those are the only two schools that I see that make any real sense for the Pac-10 to add. Gonzaga would no new market penetration.

That hits the nail right on the head. The whole point of the expansion according to most sources would be a Big 10 style network for the Pac-10 (er 12). CU and Utah fit the academic profile, and they would add two larger media markets in Denver and Salt Lake City. If it happens, book it as CU and Utah being the only schools getting the invites.

realtydog
02-10-2010, 09:56 AM
It is the ripple effect that could cause change for us---Pac 10 is never possible--agreed--and agreed and agreed--drop Pac 10 talk---the key involvement is the WAC or Mountain West--what do they do if Pac grabs and goes---that is where this summer could be interesting to watch----I understand the whole "WCC needs to keep gettig bette" thing--but it won't----we will have senior seasons where it sneaks up on the BCS schools --like a copuple years ago--but it always falls back to its base--not going to change---even if Pepp builds new gym and St Mary's and SF get new arenas--they don't draw now--

GU69
02-10-2010, 10:17 AM
If you want to know what people think about this topic, do a forum search for the 20 other threads discussing the exact same thing, including one from just last week.


This thread is a re-treaded exercise in futility.

I think that this topic keeps coming up just to give the people on the USF board something to go crazy over.

former1dog
02-10-2010, 10:21 AM
I think that this topic keeps coming up just to give the people on the USF board something to go crazy over.

Personally, I try not to give our stalkers any attention. It just seems to feed their creepy obsession with all things GUBoards. ;)

mtzaga
02-10-2010, 10:36 AM
http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42856

MJ777
02-10-2010, 10:37 AM
A much simpler solution would be for the other teams in the WCC to get better basketball programs. This is already happening, slowly. If we are lucky, the WCC could get its conference RPI consistently up in the 6-8 range, and then there would be no good reason to want to leave.

The WCC is the perfect fit for the reasons that others have stated.

And I will now say this at the risk of getting banned (No I will not reference Nuts as I did in another thread that resulted in being warned about political rhetoric on the "Big Board").

One day GU will not win the conference and will not represent the WCC in the dance. One day some other WCC basketball team or teams will overtake the Zags and be better for awhile. Perhaps GU will drop down into the middle of the WCC pack for a few years. It is currently a dream of the other teams in the league. Of course I don't see this on the horizon as long as Coach Few is in charge, but some day it has to happen. You know, what goes up, must come down.........Blasphemy......I know.

So every Zag fan should be appreciative of what they have and for what they have had since the days of Coachs Fitz, Monson and Few.

gamagin
02-10-2010, 10:42 AM
It is the ripple effect that could cause change for us---Pac 10 is never possible--agreed--and agreed and agreed--drop Pac 10 talk---the key involvement is the WAC or Mountain West--what do they do if Pac grabs and goes---that is where this summer could be interesting to watch----I understand the whole "WCC needs to keep gettig bette" thing--but it won't----we will have senior seasons where it sneaks up on the BCS schools --like a copuple years ago--but it always falls back to its base--not going to change---even if Pepp builds new gym and St Mary's and SF get new arenas--they don't draw now--

You want to watch GU in better games, in a better league and essentially, to continue to grow vs. staying, stagnating and perhaps even sliding over time.

I agree with the points. Should the various leagues reorganize and push the WCC further down the basketball foodchain, we would not likely ever enjoy the RPI numbers many of you desire as part of the national means of measurement and placement etc., etc., when the NCAA's roll around.

I think this might happen over time. But right now we are the big fish in the small pond and it has not just served us , but it has served us very well.

If, as you suggest, we look at the possibilities, I'd say we should always look for a better opportunity, if it exists. I think we will discover we have the best of all worlds.

However, I also agree with you that beating up on mostly weaklings year in and year out, may eventually become boring to the point that it not only hurts our RPI, or makes it worse, but diminishes the fan base.

However, as long as we keep our schedule of playing big name schools, and beating them or competing the way we do, I'm not sure that will happen any decade soon.

Go TEAM Zags !

FlyZag
02-10-2010, 11:44 AM
They will not admit a religious school, either. It won't happen. Period. Someone will mention religious schools in the Big-East--religious schools were the backbone of the Big East (Georgetown, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, Villanova, Boston College) when the conference was founded. For those reasons, BYU will never be a Pac-10 member and neither will Boise State.



I believe this is incorrect. It's not that the Pac 10 won't allow a religious school... It's that BYU refuses to play any games on Sunday. THAT is why the Pac 10 won't take them and vice versa.

At least that is what I read somewhere.

jake
02-10-2010, 12:33 PM
I don't see it ending anytime soon, but there is no guarantee that GU hoops is going to be the dominant WCC team in say 20 years. Gonzaga is more than men's basketball. Gonzaga athletics is more than men's basketball. I understand the benefits that have come from our basketball success, but in my opinion, from a long-term, overall university, overall athletics perspective a move to another conference isn't supported. Obviously reasonable people can have a different opinion...

LoveMyZags
02-10-2010, 12:42 PM
I like what the Big East has shown---that you can have non-football schools within a high conference--

According to my BIG EAST fan brother (Nova alum) the Big East is "thinking" of splitting the league, possibly into football schools v. non football schools so this may not be a good argument.

I like the WCC for GU as a whole, I dislike the WCC for GU in MEN'S Basketball alone...I like the idea of the rest raising the bar to meet ours. that is all...

marczagfan
02-10-2010, 12:55 PM
The bottom line IF and I do mean, if any expansion happens, is for $$$ and Football. The Pac 10 won't even take a sniff at gonzaga, Spokane is not a big market and we have no football team. Its all about money and marketing, basketball is a moneymake, but we are talking pennies compared to what football teams bring in.

The other issue is that our basketball team, as dominant as we have been the past 10 years, has not made it past the sweet 16 in 10 years. I love the zags to death and I hope we can compete and play in a final 4, but that has yet to happen and thus we are not a major player in the other conferences eyes.

I see the Pac 10 going after CU or Utah, but honestly the Mtn Wst is looking to expand as well trying to make a push for a BCS bid in Football. Its a real possibiltiy they add 2 teams in the near future, that team being Boise and someone else (perhaps Montana). The same goes if they lose a team or 2 to the pac 10 they will be looking to add another school

Bottom line is that it is all about $$$ and Football and we really are not on anyones radar. The wcc is a great conference and a lot of times many of us forget that and it is complete disrespect for our league. The zags are a unique situation and I am just happy to enjoy the ride.

Angelo Roncalli
02-10-2010, 01:00 PM
I believe this is incorrect. It's not that the Pac 10 won't allow a religious school... It's that BYU refuses to play any games on Sunday. THAT is why the Pac 10 won't take them and vice versa.

At least that is what I read somewhere.

There is one school in the Pac-10 that is immovably opposed to BYU's admission to the Pac-10. It's opposition has nothing to do with playing on Sundays.

lothar98zag
02-10-2010, 01:10 PM
So the schools mentioned are -
CU (maybe)
Utah (maybe)
BYU (maybe & NO!)
BSU (NO!)


Is UNLV an option? It would add the LV tv market, but are the sports programs & academics good enough?

If UNLV is a no, then Nevada (Reno) is an extra big NO! (Only really thinking of them as a travel partner for UNLV)

What about some more UC's or some Cal State's?

UBC?

NorthWestZag
02-10-2010, 01:32 PM
1. Pac-10 is not an option. They only want large public research schools. We don't fit the bill.

2. WAC is not much of an upgrade over the WCC honestly. It seems like it is always a one bid league with a double digit seed. Plus it is all public schools with much lower academic standards than the WCC.

3. Mountain West. NOW we are talking. It has very strong athletic competition amongst all sports. It consists of both public and private/religious Universities with good academic standards. And they may be on the verge of joining the BCS.

I think the Mountain West should add Boise State to increase football credibility and Gonzaga for basketball cred. Just look at the rankings this year.

MWC FOOTBALL (with BSU):
4. Boise State
6. Texas Christian
12. Brigham Young
18. Utah
With teams like Air Force just outside top 25.

MWC BASKETBALL (with GU):
11. Gonzaga
17. Brigham Young
19. New Mexico
25. UNLV
Along with solid teams like San Diego St., Colorado St., and Utah.

**And these are typical almost every season. There would always be 3-5 teams in the top 25 in football and basketball.

If the MWC added Gonzaga and Boise State, I think the BCS would be forced to let them it. This is, realistically, what the athletic department should be working on.

BobZag
02-10-2010, 01:39 PM
I'd like to weigh in on this issue

webspinnre
02-10-2010, 01:44 PM
I'll say what I said in the other thread. Our goal shouldn't be to move conferences, but to keep encouraging the rest of teh conference to improve, so we can be more like the A-10. Geographically and by school type the WCC is perfect for us, and the programs have been improving.

lothar98zag
02-10-2010, 01:48 PM
btw, for the record (again) - I think that out of the 30+ Div-1 conferences, the WCC is the best one for GU.

bballbeachbum
02-10-2010, 02:06 PM
There is one school in the Pac-10 that is immovably opposed to BYU's admission to the Pac-10. It's opposition has nothing to do with playing on Sundays.

who who who? also would like to know why, too. sounds juicy

and this article from July 2008 is still right on target on this subject of Pac10 expansion, yes? good read, straight to the heart of the matter; is their other new info to mix into this equation?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700241116,00.html

DenDiegoZag
02-10-2010, 04:01 PM
who who who? also would like to know why, too. sounds juicy

and this article from July 2008 is still right on target on this subject of Pac10 expansion, yes? good read, straight to the heart of the matter; is their other new info to mix into this equation?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700241116,00.html

The new info. to mix into the situation is that the Pac-10 will seriously look at moving to a bigger league to get a couple more large to medium size tv markets if they decided to make a full on push to have their own tv network similar to the Big 10 which is of major interest to the conference. The names in the hat will most likely be CU and Utah (both in new tv markets and academically aligned at least in some subjects with the overall profile of the conference). I placed a link to the Denver Post with an article about CU and the Pac-10 below.

http://www.denverpost.com/colleges/ci_14367217

Birddog
02-10-2010, 04:48 PM
Just for the record, here is how that powerhouse known as Gonzaga fared in all sports in the WCC.

The recipient of the Commissioner's Cup is based on a point system, reflecting the place finish of each team in conference play. The Men's and Women's All-Sports Awards are given to the schools that accumulate the most points within each particular gender sport. The institution with the highest point total after combining the men's and women's point totals will be honored with the Commissioner's Cup.

Fall 2009 Commissioner's Cup Standings
Updated 11/24/09
Portland - 28.0
Loyola Marymount - 26.5
Santa Clara - 25.0
San Diego - 24.5
San Francisco - 23.0
Saint Mary's - 19.5
Pepperdine - 17.5
Gonzaga - 15.0

Full text
http://wccsports.cstv.com/genrel/121609aaa.html

bballbeachbum
02-11-2010, 07:09 AM
The new info. to mix into the situation is that the Pac-10 will seriously look at moving to a bigger league to get a couple more large to medium size tv markets if they decided to make a full on push to have their own tv network similar to the Big 10 which is of major interest to the conference. The names in the hat will most likely be CU and Utah (both in new tv markets and academically aligned at least in some subjects with the overall profile of the conference). I placed a link to the Denver Post with an article about CU and the Pac-10 below.

http://www.denverpost.com/colleges/ci_14367217

Thank you much for the link. better informed now. guess we'll have to wait and see.

kdaleb
02-12-2010, 10:17 AM
The Oregonian's Ducks blogger had some good insights today into why which teams would/wouldn't be in play.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/ducks/2010/02/thoughts_on_the_pac_10s_possib.html