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View Full Version : Heytfelt and Davis arrested ( Tell Me NO )



Bulldog
02-10-2007, 09:07 AM
Is this really true? Josh & Davis arrested in Cheney for Drugs. OMG

MosaicZagFan
02-10-2007, 09:10 AM
Just saw the news....the way my husband was yelling at the TV, I thought there had been another terrorist attack.

Really unbelievable.

gu03alum
02-10-2007, 09:20 AM
Is there a link to this story that someone can provide. I can't find it on the internet anywhere.

RenoZag
02-10-2007, 09:21 AM
If it's true, I'm going to be heartsick for days. . .Best to wait and see what comes from the school, the law, the athletic dept.

john montana
02-10-2007, 09:23 AM
link?

Zagpower
02-10-2007, 09:23 AM
According to local NBC station. Both were arrested in Cheney on a routine traffic stop and marijuana (a misdemeanor) and mushrooms(a class b or c Felony) were discovered.

jhoop
02-10-2007, 09:24 AM
Just saw it on the Q-6 news. Pretty stupid. Could be the reason for what many perceived to be inconsistent play. The Zag haters will have a field day with this one.

gu03alum
02-10-2007, 09:26 AM
found a link...

http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=6068045

ZagDaddy
02-10-2007, 09:27 AM
Here's a link (http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=6068045)to the story

RenoZag
02-10-2007, 09:29 AM
http://www.khq.com/

UberZagFan
02-10-2007, 09:38 AM
Another reminder that these are only 19, 20 year old kids. If all this plays out as has been reported so far, I hope they learn a life lesson from this. Hopefully it will be a turning point in maturity.

gonstu
02-10-2007, 09:41 AM
Ok, I know it's early, and I know we don't have all of the details. But knowing just what you know now from the khq website/story, what action will Few and company take?

My initial reaction: suspension, for the rest of the year.

I don't know what past precedent is here...Am I over reacting?

What is more important here, winning or the face/future of the program?

Again, maybe I am just over reacting.

TheBeast
02-10-2007, 09:46 AM
No other words for it, I said.

gozagswoohoo
02-10-2007, 09:47 AM
you have GOT to be kidding me...

BongKrosby
02-10-2007, 09:48 AM
We may of found out where our 2 scollies are going to come from next year. If convicted (of the felony), they will, and should be, gone. Guessing neither have a prior, I'd think they have a good chance of getting it reduced. Therefore, it is the season for Josh I'd say.

This is very bad. Josh, although inconsistant and frustrating at times, is a difference maker in big games. Without him, a NCAA run becomes very unlikely.

Just waitng for it to hit ESPN. Is it too early for a pregame cocktail?

Bocco
02-10-2007, 09:51 AM
I know that these are not the first GU students/atheletes to be involved with drugs nor will it be the last. I hope the best for them. I know a lot who have gone through something like this - arrest for possession etc., but in Josh and Theo's case it will be a lot more public. I for one would not kick them off the team, or revoke their scholarships, however, suspension would be appropriate. If GU is truly family as many posters have expressed, then they deserve our support no matter how disappointed we may be in their actions.

RebornZag
02-10-2007, 09:53 AM
A tremendous blow for all. I truly hope we can all practice the act of love illustrated by compassion and kindness. My heart feels broken, as I'm sure will be felt throughout ZagNation. I pray that we can practice patience and tolerance in keeping out tongues in check. I think in times like this more support and less criticism is called for. To me that's the Gonzaga Way.

My prayers will be going out all day for Josh and Davis, for their families and friends,for The Zag team and all of ZagNation. May God bless all!!!

McZag
02-10-2007, 09:55 AM
Drink a few beers if you want boys but don't break the law. This program needs a shakedown and a facelift. Let's go back being cinderella if being a big time program means drug abuse.

Asotin
02-10-2007, 09:56 AM
If it was just weed I would agree with you. Possesion of weed is just a misdermeanor, but shrooms are a felony. If they are convicted of a felony I am not sure you can keep them on the squad. If that happene I would hope some other program would give them a second chance, but I don't think GU can just let it slide.

roxdoc
02-10-2007, 09:56 AM
The night before one of the biggest games of the year and Josh is 20 miles away from home at midnight with drugs.

A terrible tragidy - I hate to say it but Josh should be booted for good. What saddens me even more is Theo Davis. I really looked forward to his impact next year.

El Voce
02-10-2007, 09:57 AM
Ok, I know it's early, and I know we don't have all of the details. But knowing just what you know now from the khq website/story, what action will Few and company take?

What is more important here, winning or the face/future of the program?

Again, maybe I am just over reacting.

The easy answer here is the face/future of the program. I don't intend to comment further until the whole story is known. Anything any of us say at this point will just be conjecture.

Zaghuatanejo
02-10-2007, 09:57 AM
nooooooooo!!!!!

Bulldog
02-10-2007, 09:59 AM
I doubt Josh will play the rest of this season and if convicted, knowing GU's high standards will be dispelled from school. He can always go to the NBA as they have no standards.:(

ZagMania
02-10-2007, 10:03 AM
Josh has so much to lose, especially being a father. I'm sure he will now know the consequences of his actions.. this is one hell of a way to learn a lesson. Considering that the story says they will be facing felony charges I would be shocked if Josh isn't suspended for the season.

sullyzag66
02-10-2007, 10:06 AM
We don't have all the facts. Whose car was it? Where were the drugs, etc.? Doesn't look good, but I'll wait until more information available. This has to affect the team, but I think a shakedown of the whole program is a bit premature.

sullyzag66
02-10-2007, 10:08 AM
This news is just stunning! I feel mostly bad for the remainder of the kids on the team who just may have seen their post-season hopes dashed.

Here's hoping they step up, but that's a lot to expect from these young men.

El Voce
02-10-2007, 10:16 AM
I just have one more final thought to add. I am going to show up today, as previously planned, and root like crazy for the home team. These are my Zags. These guys are my team.

zagdad
02-10-2007, 10:16 AM
As a Canadian presumably with student status he could toast if found guilty of a drug offense.:eek:

Zag79
02-10-2007, 10:27 AM
you guys are cracking me up. you think weed on a player is a new thing? you think josh is the first zag to smoke some pot? its no joking matter but if you really think that i fear for your state of logics. many guys i know that played ball through GU and other schools smoked dope on a regular basis. dont make it bigger than it is. heres to a speedy judicial process and a 2nd chance!

madzag
02-10-2007, 10:30 AM
you guys are cracking me up. you think weed on a player is a new thing? you think josh is the first zag to smoke some pot? its no joking matter but if you really think that i fear for your state of logics. many guys i know that played ball through GU and other schools smoked dope on a regular basis. dont make it bigger than it is. heres to a speedy judicial process and a 2nd chance!

weed=who cares?

'shrooms=not good.

That's all I'm sayin' for now.

Russell Bevan
02-10-2007, 10:34 AM
Friends,

If the drugs belonged to Josh he should sit out the remaining regular season games and possibly the rest of the season. It they belong to Theo he should have to sit out five to ten games at the start of next year.

Young adults make mistakes, but these young men screwed up on many levels:
Drugs
Out past midnight the night before a grudge match game.
Not living up to the programs or the schools code of ethics.
on and on

I keep hearing about how mature Josh has become since becoming a father, I wonder how he acted before he had a baby.

I am so disappointed in these young men. My first thought was that they need to be removed from the program, but that is a little harsh we all make mistakes. But the leash on them has got to be tight, elevated GPA's, etc. If they even look the wrong way they need to be dismissed.

Every year for the past five years we have had a serious problem and we need to clean up the program. If we have to recruit at a lower level so be it. I want to win, but I want to win clean. I would rather make the dance every other year and be one and done then have my beloved alma mater be tarnished by the basketball team.

All the best,
Russell Bevan '88

wazZag
02-10-2007, 10:38 AM
Amen Russell, I agree completely. I like watching the zags win basketball games but there have to be consequences for actions like this, I have no doubt Few and Co. will reach a fair conclusion.

Gozags99
02-10-2007, 10:39 AM
If you were in coach Few's shoes, what would you do?

I think he has to do whatever it takes to get the team's attention directed toward the game tonight and to the rest of the season.

I realize it is early, but assuming Josh and Theo are in deep trouble, I think it would be best to make an announcement as soon as possible and move on. The quickest and easiest decision for the time being would be to at least suspend the two players for the rest of the year...address the details for the future in April.

We are obviously going to get about 30 minutes per game out of Pendo and Mallon, 20+ from Kuso, and probably 5 minutes per game out of Foster/Burgess. Also, can Downs pick up some rebounding responsibilities? Maybe this will be an opportunity for him to get into a rhythm with more minutes. We still have plenty of scoring abilities, but somebody is going to have to learn how to slash to the bucket

bigblahla
02-10-2007, 10:42 AM
Life is filled with lessons, this will be a hard one for both of these young men. My hope is that they will learn from it.

As far as the season goes, Looks like Coach will have to play Burgess and Foster but Josh's loss is devastating to this years season.

Home win streak is at risk but the other Zags may step up if not it's a lousy way to end it if that's what happens.

Go!! Zags!!!

BobZag
02-10-2007, 10:51 AM
Suspended indefinitely by Few, according to ESPN.

GU69
02-10-2007, 10:53 AM
Tough news.

Obviously times are difficult right now for Josh and Theo.

But this is also difficult on the coaches and the rest of the team.

At this point the won-loss record for the rest of the year is not so important to me any more. What is important is how and what these young men learn from this.

What a contrast in the threads on this board: this one about Josh and Theo, and the other one about Sean. It makes me appreciate Sean all the more.

Go Zags.

HillBillyZag
02-10-2007, 10:55 AM
I agree, both players should be punished severely enough that they will learn that Gonzaga University athletics will not tolerate such conduct and/or activities by any player regardless of their skills.

bromlecm
02-10-2007, 11:00 AM
I would note that while driving this morning Andy Katz reported that a point guard at Notre Dame was expelled from school for possession of marijuana. Katz brought up the similarities between GU and ND as institutions and left one to speculate as to what GU might do. A very sad day for Gonzaga.

RebornZag
02-10-2007, 11:03 AM
Glad to see our guys have pleaded not guilty. In our wonderful society we are innocent until proven guilty. And Few will do the right thing, he's a Classic Zag.....The team will come ready to play.

I think the Zags will do great without Josh today. They'll respond. Many times adversity brings people together, including athletic teams. I think we'll meet this challenge head on, and that it'll bring us together in a way we haven't seen so far this year. Remember that this is a team game, and even without Josh we have tons of talent, and I believe more talent then both St. Mary's and Santa Clara. We are still the Zags!!! We've been underperforming since November, and maybe this very sad and tragic event will pull us together, and that we'll start playing up to the level we should be playing at. I"m with Elvoce. I'll be cheering louder then ever. And believing at a level I've yet to experience....:) :):D :)

wazZag
02-10-2007, 11:07 AM
I would note that while driving this morning Andy Katz reported that a point guard at Notre Dame was expelled from school for possession of marijuana. Katz brought up the similarities between GU and ND as institutions and left one to speculate as to what GU might do. A very sad day for Gonzaga.

I wonder if the ND guy had some major prior issues, that seems a little harsh. I would hope GU wouldn't completely abandon the kids. I'm all for punishment, but at a certain level it is counterproductive for the student and the school.

kylasdad
02-10-2007, 11:08 AM
need our help today.

Go Zags, you've got something to fight for. Santa Clara really thinks they have a chance now...

AllezZags
02-10-2007, 11:11 AM
I flipped on the TV to watch Wisconson, and was treated to Gottlieb talking about both players being suspended "indefinately".

that is the right course of action, and also the minimum coach could have done IMHO.

wazZag
02-10-2007, 11:12 AM
Suspended indefinitely is pretty standard, IMO. He needs to wait for the facts, what a stressful day for the staff, team, and everyone involved.

primal23
02-10-2007, 11:14 AM
There goes the home win streak IMWO

GaelBaller
02-10-2007, 11:14 AM
Looks like an ugly situation and bad for the WCC in general. Since Theo Davis isn't an American citizen and likely on a student visa, what will happen if he is found guilty of either charges? It seems like the recent illegal immigration and terrorism security debates have created many laws that will deport non-citizens on the most minor of charges.

madness
02-10-2007, 11:18 AM
This of course is horrible news for the GU community (local and remote)...I just looked into the penalty comparison for shrooms:

"For Schedule I or II hallucinogens (magic mushrooms and psilocybin - psilocin included), the hallucinogen listed for comparisons and ascertaining is LSD. It says -- Less than 50 MG of LSD (or the equivalent amount of other Schedule I or II Hallucinogens) is a level 12. In others words, if anyone had less than 50 milligrams of LSD (or the equivalent schedule I hallucinogen), that is a LEVEL 12 offense - punishable by 10 to 16 months in jail. The next level up is 14 (no 13 on this table), and the drug amount is at least 50 MG but less than 100 MG of LSD (or equivalent schedule I hallucinogen). The sentencing table gives the penalty for level 14 with 15 to 21 months jail time.

According to Albert Hoffman (the Swiss chemist who accidently created LSD in his laboratory in 1943) in "PLANTS OF THE GODS", he says "With LSD, a dose of .05 milligrams (50 micrograms) will produce a deep hallucinogenic intoxification of some hours duration". This figure amazingly matches the Drug Enforcement Administrations standard dosage unit of LSD (.05 MG) - page 136 - Federal Sentencing Guidelines Manual.

The guidelines actually make sense after some arithmetic is performed. A level 12 felony is any amount "less than 50 milligrams of LSD" (or the equivalent amount of other schedule I or II hallucinogens).

In the Drug Equivalency Table, 1 gram of LSD is equal to 100 Kilos of weed (or 100,000 grams). 1 gram of psilocybin is equal to 500 grams of weed (a little over a pound)."

Now, if the boys were using just recreationally (let me tell you from experience, shrooming the day before doing ANYTHING is a bad idea) they probably only has 2/8 ths of a ounce at the most. This may translate to more than 10-16 months of jail if convicted. If they were about to make a transaction with over an ounce...then they are in felony trafficing area (really bad)...thankfully there's nothing about that in the report that we know of.

Either way, I hope Foster and Burgess understand it's their time now. We cannot depend on Josh anymore from a basketball standpoint.

ZagSlug
02-10-2007, 11:19 AM
Kellogg had possession and another incident before he was sent away by UConn. Usually schools give guys a second chance after handing out their punishment.

Kellogg stayed after the first incident and the team tried to help him through "both the academic and athletic transition to life as a college student-athlete" before they let him go. I would GU would do the same and try to help rather than just give up on a kid.

Nothing wrong with giving a kid a chance if he is contrite and pays for his misdeeds. I see nothing wrong with USF giving the kid a chance to better himself in a new environment and hope Josh gets his chance to prove himself at GU rather than leaving to try for the NBA.

And no, I don't think he is ready for the NBA. I am not even tempted to make jokes about marijuana use and the NBA. Well, maybe a little tempted.

BongKrosby
02-10-2007, 11:23 AM
We may never know, but what the heck were they doing in Cheney at midinight 17 hours before a game:

A. Scoring Drugs
B. Partying with EWU students (most likely athletes since athletes party with athletes)
C. Chasing girls
D. A severe craving for Savage House pizza.

Your guess is as good as mine. Poor judgement either way.

Trying to be positive, maybe this will be a wake up call for these 2 and they can somehow use this adversity as a positive. Hopefully, they can begin to rebuild the trust and respect of their team, coaches, families, and fans. Hopefully, the rest of the team (Kuso/Foster/Burgess) can step out of the shadows and do something spectacular.

Cavebear33
02-10-2007, 11:25 AM
Sad news. What angers me, aside from the alleged drug use, is the lack of responsibility to the team. To be tooling around Cheney at that hour of the night prior to a major rematch the team was looking forward to, shows a real lack of maturity. I was hoping Josh was gaining that maturity as we watched him in the past few games. This is tough on everybody, I hope Josh and Theo can learn from this. I'm sure their status on the team will be handled by Few in a responsible way.

wazZag
02-10-2007, 11:27 AM
Thanks Slug, I needed a laugh.

Zag79
02-10-2007, 11:27 AM
you think a player being good compared to a player that isnt has anything to do with who smokes dope? come on...

GaelBaller
02-10-2007, 11:28 AM
That isn’t a relevant example, UConn is a huge public university with lax rules guiding athletics and GU is a private catholic university with pretty high standards guiding athletics. A more pertinent case is Notre Dame (small catholic), where they have thrown out multiple football players for minor pot position. This is bigger then simple pot as well, ‘srooms are a felony possession. I don’t think there is a DI school in the world (especially a high standard catholic school) that would accept convinced felons.

zagster318
02-10-2007, 11:29 AM
Kellogg had possession and another incident before he was sent away by UConn. Usually schools give guys a second chance after handing out their punishment.

Kellogg stayed after the first incident and the team tried to help him through "both the academic and athletic transition to life as a college student-athlete" before they let him go. I would GU would do the same and try to help rather than just give up on a kid.

Nothing wrong with giving a kid a chance if he is contrite and pays for his misdeeds. I see nothing wrong with USF giving the kid a chance to better himself in a new environment and hope Josh gets his chance to prove himself at GU rather than leaving to try for the NBA.

And no, I don't think he is ready for the NBA. I am not even tempted to make jokes about marijuana use and the NBA. Well, maybe a little tempted.


Maybe I am a bit cynical, but the reason this is such a big deal is because it's Heytvelt, the supposed cornerstone of the program for the next couple of years. If it was P-Mac, I don't think people would be quite as upset.

FuManShoes
02-10-2007, 11:30 AM
I won't attempt to justifty your alleged behavior. It's not up to me to decide if you belong on the team anymore. Whether guilty or innocent, the mere fact you find yourself in this scrape is a blow to both your and GU's reputation. But you owe it to yourself and all GU fans to ensure this is not the legacy you leave. I have seen enough to know you are a unique talent, a big man capable of running like a deer, jumping like jackrabbit, shooting with range and touch, dunking with power and making a difference on both ends of the basketball court. Let the talent you bring to your team and the excitement you bring to fans be your legacy. Look in the mirror, pull it together and make a new start for you and your family - whether it's in Spokane or elsewhere. I expect to see you in the pros one day. You should expect that of yourself, and do whatever you must from here on out to ensure it happens.

Best of luck,
FuMan

jayray
02-10-2007, 11:32 AM
It goes w/o question they are suspended indefinitely. Is this really Few's decision though? Seems like it goes beyond Few.

ZagSlug
02-10-2007, 11:35 AM
Is forgiveness a non Catholic thing?

Lurknomore
02-10-2007, 11:38 AM
It is just so sad, not only for them for but for the team. Hopefully they will be able to step up and put this behind them today and play really hard. I can't imagine what Heytvelt must be feeling like today.

zagster318
02-10-2007, 11:39 AM
Is forgiveness a non Catholic thing?

The hypocrisy is blinding. If convicted, they should be suspended for the rest of the school year. However, both Josh and Theo deserve as second chance.

Fonebone
02-10-2007, 11:41 AM
Smoking pot in a car is probably the dumbest thing one can do. If you are going to smoke pot, do it anywhere but in a car, where a random traffic stop will get you caught for sure. Really dumb, but not that unusual. The night before a big game ? I am really disapointed in Josh. However, I have heard that Zag players smoking pot is not that unusual, even by some of our recent best players, but to do it in the car the night before the game .............

Note - I am not condonig pot smoking.

yourmom
02-10-2007, 11:43 AM
Maybe I am a bit cynical, but the reason this is such a big deal is because it's Heytvelt, the supposed cornerstone of the program for the next couple of years. If it was P-Mac, I don't think people would be quite as upset.

You're right it is a big deal because it is Heytvelt. A starter on an NCAA bound team. Yet by his actions showed no respect for his team, coaches, or school. His fun was more important than the team's success.

Regardless if it's a misdemeanor or a felony, thee is no way Josh should be playing this season. He has already shown how much he appreciated a full ride scholarship to play a sport on a top team. If it's a felony, I highly doubt he would stick around. He will pay the price for his actions and latch on either at another school or professionally.

Section 116
02-10-2007, 11:50 AM
Glad to see our guys have pleaded not guilty states Reborn. I can tell you this is a false statement as no one has even been charged as yet. There has been an arrest period. The police report (investigation) will have to be forwarded to the Spokane County prosecuting attorney's office to be reviewed by an attorney for possible charges. There will be a first appearance and not guilty will be the plea. Frankly the court system goes into a tizzy if someone pleads guilty at a first appearance as the system just doesn't function well when that happens. That being said I suspect we have seen the last of Josh for the remainder of this season. It remains to be seen regarding the rest of his career as a Zag. To my knowledge there is no precedent for this kind of thing with GU basketball. I suspect Coach Few will allow the justice system to run it's course and then deal with the problem. My personal opinion is everyone is entitled to one mistake. More than that however, is having to face your teammates and your family. What will be interesting this evening is how the team reacts. You can fold your tents and pack it in or you can use adversity to your advantage. I have seen both. I believe this team will react postively to adversity. Long range (rest of season) prospects are more of an unknown. Certainly there will be those with minimal minutes who will be asked to step up. There are 26 minutes, 15 points and nearly 8 rebounds to replace. That is the challenge. Regarding Davis, if this is his first brush with the law, I believe he too is entitled to another chance, after he answers to both the justice system and Coach Few. Personally the justice system may be the lesser of two evils.

sullyzag66
02-10-2007, 11:50 AM
The hypocrisy is blinding. If convicted, they should be suspended for the rest of the school year. However, both Josh and Theo deserve as second chance.


Is forgiveness a non Catholic thing?

Exactly. There will be consequences, but "one and done" is not a Gospel value.

john montana
02-10-2007, 11:57 AM
inexcusable...and as far as the "everybody smokes pot" excuse, I wish those players had been caught and suspended too...and i don't care who they are and/or were. drugs are not harmless. anyone caught doing drugs should be done of the season, and only allowed to play again with mandatory testing. I have no problem with a second chance, but the first punishment needs to be severe.

sickening...

fasi22mob
02-10-2007, 11:59 AM
Exactly. There will be consequences, but "one and done" is not a Gospel value.

We forgive you but you are off the team is certainly gospel.

zagfan08
02-10-2007, 12:00 PM
lets wait for this to be sorted out before speculating on possible punishments


we know next to nothing right now but as the day goes on details should emerge

Zag79
02-10-2007, 12:02 PM
drugs are not harmless. heres to hoping you or any of the other posters putting a weed smoker on blast dont get drunk anytime soon. thats just as bad if not worse scientifically. i love the people that drink to get a buzz every game then talk smack about drugs and character....

fasi22mob
02-10-2007, 12:07 PM
[QUOTE=Zag79;3176]heres to hoping you or any of the other posters putting a weed smoker on blast dont get drunk anytime soon. thats just as bad if not worse scientifically. i love the people that drink to get a buzz every game then talk smack about drugs and character....[/QUO

Dude, Defending smoking weed because it is better for you scientifically than beer is absurd. It is illegal and a couple of boosters who drink before a game is not.

sullyzag66
02-10-2007, 12:07 PM
heres to hoping you or any of the other posters putting a weed smoker on blast dont get drunk anytime soon. thats just as bad if not worse scientifically. i love the people that drink to get a buzz every game then talk smack about drugs and character....

Alcohol is a drug. It's a regulated, legal drug, but a drug nontheless. Abuse of alcohol often has harsher effects than abuse of illicit drugs.

ZagMania
02-10-2007, 12:09 PM
I agree Zag79. While I'm extremely disappointed at the notion that Josh would be doing shrooms and be that far away the night before a game, as a college student myself I can't say I'm all that surprised by marijuana use. However, Josh had way too much to lose to put himself in that situation. I feel bad for Derek and Sean if this costs them their senior postseasons.

Zag79
02-10-2007, 12:10 PM
the people i see, and many of them in the 40 yeas + club show up buzzing and going to the herak at half to drink more, etc. is illegal to drive. and the effects from booze are just as bad as some weed smoke. i always laugh when person A talks about a guy that smokes only to watch person A get drunk or a buzz from beer.

sullyzag66
02-10-2007, 12:11 PM
Dude, Defending smoking weed because it is better for you scientifically than beer is absurd. It is illegal and a couple of boosters who drink before a game is not.
It's also illegal to possess and consume alcohol under the age of 21. Zag students don't do that?

roxdoc
02-10-2007, 12:12 PM
I agree that everyone is innocent until proven guilty and we should not rush to judgment quite yet.

I also agree that we need to stand behind wayward players – BUT primarily as students and part of he GU family. However, we have to think of the whole family and the team’s reputation too. We need to send a message to prospective students, all sports recruits and their families, and the world in general that this type of behavior will not be tolerated…PERIOD! Zero tolerance! Everyone is watching us. Is this the GU we have all grown to love and respect, or are we going to behave like a typical BCS school?

Tough love will pay in the long run.

ZagDaddy
02-10-2007, 12:15 PM
Hold on there folks! Take a deep breath and relax a bit.

We all need to remember that this story is just breaking and all the details are unknown. Give the dust a little time to settle before kicking anyone off the team, putting them in jail, sending them to rehab etc. This is going to take months to fully resolve.

Admittedly, this does look bad and Josh may be through for the season but beyond that? Let's just wait and see. Again, let the story fully develop and the courts and the school react accordingly. There are many unknowns at this point. Don't rush to judgment.

Pallet
02-10-2007, 12:19 PM
This is terrible news for the team, I'd be really pissed if my teammate did that. Really stupid and selfish decision. However, what I'm most interested in will be the university's response. Will they get any special treatment, whether real or perceived? I would expect not, I hope they are treated just as any other student would be, which I think would involve a second chance, along with some major restrictions and counseling, etc.

thickman1
02-10-2007, 12:20 PM
inexcusable...and as far as the "everybody smokes pot" excuse, I wish those players had been caught and suspended too...and i don't care who they are and/or were. drugs are not harmless. anyone caught doing drugs should be done of the season, and only allowed to play again with mandatory testing. I have no problem with a second chance, but the first punishment needs to be severe.

sickening...

Well said. I agree completely.

fasi22mob
02-10-2007, 12:26 PM
It's also illegal to possess and consume alcohol under the age of 21. Zag students don't do that?

Sure they do it. Does that make it OK? They should be punished if caught.

thickman1
02-10-2007, 12:28 PM
Maybe I am a bit cynical, but the reason this is such a big deal is because it's Heytvelt, the supposed cornerstone of the program for the next couple of years. If it was P-Mac, I don't think people would be quite as upset.

I think you're being very cynical. If PMAC was arrested on the same charges I'd still be as upset as I am right now. The actions displayed were stupid, selfish, and put a very negative light on a program that as far as I know is very well run. My first thought wasn't "oh no, the NCAA tourney is around the corner." It was a few curse words followed by "what the hell were they thinking? This makes GU look really bad."

I'm not calling for Josh or Theo to be tossed out of school but the team survived before Josh and they can survive without him. As Russell said in his post - I'd rather the program be clean than drop their standards for the sake of W's on the court.

zag47
02-10-2007, 12:28 PM
We will find our teams true depth. We just might find out who the team leader is or was.

fasi22mob
02-10-2007, 12:28 PM
Hold on there folks! Take a deep breath and relax a bit.

We all need to remember that this story is just breaking and all the details are unknown. Give the dust a little time to settle before kicking anyone off the team, putting them in jail, sending them to rehab etc. This is going to take months to fully resolve.

Admittedly, this does look bad and Josh may be through for the season but beyond that? Let's just wait and see. Again, let the story fully develop and the courts and the school react accordingly. There are many unknowns at this point. Don't rush to judgment.

Well said.

zags422
02-10-2007, 12:29 PM
this sucks.

thickman1
02-10-2007, 12:30 PM
Very nice FuMan. Well said.

JLGutrocks
02-10-2007, 12:32 PM
what a stinking bummer. Night before the game. Dam. Here's hoping they get their heads screwed on straight.

thickman1
02-10-2007, 12:33 PM
At what point do you think to yourself - "hmm, is what I'm doing really a good idea?" I mean c'mon. No lights at midnight, smells like Marijuana in the car - which probably means someone was smoking, yes? Then toss on the 'shrooms. Good grief.

Thomas_Sutpen
02-10-2007, 12:41 PM
According to the <police report, (http://www.krem.com/images/021007_cheneyarrest.pdf)> the car was searched b/c the officer smelled mary jane.

In my opinion, both players should be suspended from the team (and placed on disciplinary probation at GU) until the smoke clears and the trial sorts out levels of guilt and innocence.

Three possible explanations (not including mushrooms):

1) Josh was smoking, and Theo was not. In this scenario, Josh was driving while under the influence. Very serious. If this turns out to be the case, reinstate Theo and dismiss Josh from the team.

2) Both were smoking. See # 1 above on DWI, and dismiss both players from the team.

3) Theo was smoking, and Josh was not. I this scenario, while Josh was galactically stupid, he was not technically breaking the law. Reinstate Josh and dismiss Theo from team.

Obviously, the felony mushroom charge is more serious. If both players admit to "sharing" possession, dismiss both from the team. If only one will admit to ownership (and both agree), dismiss only that player.

Both players should also submit to whatever procedures and/or penalties generally issued to GU students in similar cases. NO SPECIAL TREATMENT.

Best of luck to an undermanned Zag team for the rest of the season. Let's hope Kuso, Mallon, Burgess, & co. step up.

wazZag
02-10-2007, 12:42 PM
marijuana has a pungent odor whether it was being smoked or not, therefore the officer could have smelled it irrespective of whether or not it had been used.

2Zags3Pups
02-10-2007, 12:43 PM
If only they were not wearing the red uniforms, the cops would have never noticed the car.

SteeleMan
02-10-2007, 12:44 PM
or so they say.

some of the quotes I've heard on tv and radio.

"they're kids, it's not like they killed somebody."

"i bet mark few is rethinking his decision to not go to Indiana. the zags are down this year, for zag standards."

"it's safe to say that neither players will be at the game today."

RenoZag
02-10-2007, 12:47 PM
marijuana has a pungent odor whether it was being smoked or not, therefore the officer could have smelled it irrespective of whether or not it had been used.

Excellent point, which means there are more than "three possible explanations". . .

thickman1
02-10-2007, 12:48 PM
well - GU has made it back onto ESPN and ESPN2's sports ticker. Not exactly the way I imagined that the school would be publicized. :mad:

wazZag
02-10-2007, 12:48 PM
"i bet mark few is rethinking his decision to not go to Indiana. the zags are down this year, for zag standards."

What a moron.

thickman1
02-10-2007, 12:50 PM
Whose car were they in? I distinctly remember watching a YouTube clip about Josh and how he had some type of small car that got good gas mileage - like a civic or something like that. Pretty sure neither one can afford a 2006 Chevy Trailblazer...

Thomas_Sutpen
02-10-2007, 12:52 PM
marijuana has a pungent odor whether it was being smoked or not, therefore the officer could have smelled it irrespective of whether or not it had been used.

I guess I was assuming it was bagged, in which case the officer would need wolf-like powers of scent to detect it. Unless, of course, the vehicle was recently or regularly used for smoking, or Josh/Theo's clothes were recently exposed to smoke.

zzzjag
02-10-2007, 12:56 PM
Did anyone see the sentence from the ESPN article?

Both players have told Gonzaga officials they are innocent

wazZag
02-10-2007, 01:01 PM
I hope they really are, magically, through some strange array of circumstances completely innocent.

adoptedzag
02-10-2007, 01:04 PM
or so they say.

some of the quotes I've heard on tv and radio.

"they're kids, it's not like they killed somebody."

"i bet mark few is rethinking his decision to not go to Indiana. the zags are down this year, for zag standards."

"it's safe to say that neither players will be at the game today."

I heard that on the radio this morning on my way out to Cheney and I about hit the roof. Stupid Fox sports. They have the perception that this type of incident happened at some BCS school, not at GU. Not that it is excusable at any school, but GU was supposed to be better than that. "Educating the people the world needs most" and all that. I'm very very disappointed in a guy who is someone's dad and a kid that could possibly be deported (he's canadian, right?). Very very poor judgement.

I'm wondering, Theo and Kuso were really good friends and the fact that Kuso wasn't in the car with Theo begs the question that someone last night said "you know what, this might not be a great idea" and stayed home.

This post probably doesn't make much sense -- as I'm still in shock, and for that I apologise, I just had to get that off my chest.

ImaDude
02-10-2007, 01:04 PM
Those 3 decisions are all much too harsh.

Mike Chavez, a Blackfoot Indian who plays for Montana, not only recieved one DUI but 2. Coaches Krystkowiak and Tinkle hung in for him and now Chavez is a senior who is a crowd favorite. He struggled through adversity but faught it through.

2 DUIs is much worse than possession of 2 low profile drugs. If Chavez got a chance and succeeded, then Josh and Theo certainly deserve a chance.

RebornZag
02-10-2007, 02:00 PM
I'm a counselor, and have done a lot of work in the drug and alcohol field. Tough love does not imply Kicking kids out of school. It does not include condemning kids, although condemnation is certainly a reaction to intitial news. People do get very angry. But the adult anger is not equated with tough love. Tough love has to do with setting up certain types of consequences (that would probably be viewed as many people as "tough") and sticking to them. I have never met a student yet who wanted to go to treatment. And I've yet seen one that was able,at first, to admit they had a problem. It's easier to kick a kid out of school then it is to admit they have a problem and try to help them overcome the problem. For a first time offense, in most cases I know involving alcohol and drugs, prison or jail sentences are not handed out by the Court. If there is admittance of guilt, I would expect to see a deferred sentence involving alcohol/drug treatment, two year aftercare program, drug and alcohol testing in some cases.

zagfever86
02-10-2007, 02:03 PM
I'm a counselor, and have done a lot of work in the drug and alcohol field. Tough love does not imply Kicking kids out of school. It does not include condemning kids, although condemnation is certainly a reaction to intitial news. People do get very angry. But the adult anger is not equated with tough love. Tough love has to do with setting up certain types of consequences (that would probably be viewed as many people as "tough") and sticking to them. I have never met a student yet who wanted to go to treatment. And I've yet seen one that was able,at first, to admit they had a problem. It's easier to kick a kid out of school then it is to admit they have a problem and try to help them overcome the problem. For a first time offense, in most cases I know involving alcohol and drugs, prison or jail sentences are not handed out by the Court. If there is admittance of guilt, I would expect to see a deferred sentence involving alcohol/drug treatment, two year aftercare program, drug and alcohol testing in some cases.

Drugs and alcohol abuse is a common social problem today in the lives of our students across America. Being Catholic does not protect us from addictiions. I could tell you many many stories in this area. I've not worked with college students yet, but have done much work with middle school and high school students. I have no idea about the severity of the problem as of right now, and the responsible thing for adults to do is get information before you start condemning students. I don't think kicking kids out of school, or out of a family, is the right idea in most cases. I think Josh and Davis deserve to be treated as we'd hopefully treat our own kids. And hopefully you'd not kick your kids out of your family, and they certainly wouldn't be kicked out of their schools. Define the problem, and get a tough solution.

From the reaction of many on this board, I would tend to think that many of you have no knowledge of, or experience with, drug and alcohol abuse. And quite frankly many of you appear to be living in the Dark Ages still concerning knowledge of treatment for people, and students, who might have a problem. I would assume Gonzaga has knowledge of current philosophy of addiction and treatment. Loving the person is the biggest part of tough love. The key is learning how to love a person with an addiction.

Excellent post. I agree on many levels.

zagfever86
02-10-2007, 02:13 PM
marijuana has a pungent odor whether it was being smoked or not, therefore the officer could have smelled it irrespective of whether or not it had been used.

Smoked marijuana smells distinctively different than un-smoked marijuana.

john montana
02-10-2007, 02:56 PM
heres to hoping you or any of the other posters putting a weed smoker on blast dont get drunk anytime soon. thats just as bad if not worse scientifically. i love the people that drink to get a buzz every game then talk smack about drugs and character....


I call BS on this post. marijuana is illegal for many reason. you want to fight that law go ahead, but until it changes live by it. and you can try to call me out about alcohol, drugs, anything you want. fact is, you don't know me. my dad is a recovering alcoholic and at age 11 I decided to avoid drugs of any kind, including alcohol. I've never had a drop in my life. I've seen first hand the dangers of alcohol and marijuana and made choices to avoid them. i have 0 tolerance for those who choose to abuse and break law with regard to drugs and alcohol because the fact is breaking those laws has a direct impact on people around you. and frankly, people who appease abusers with comments that amount to "IT IS ONLY WEED, WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL" are simply doing more damage to these kids. 3 guesses why kids feel it is okay (despite being against the law). maybe they here crap like what's written above in all caps.

I reserve judgement with regard to josh and theo until more facts come out, but I refuse to listen to any defense that is equivalent to basic enablement.

sullyzag66
02-10-2007, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by sullyzag66
It's also illegal to possess and consume alcohol under the age of 21. Zag students don't do that?

Sure they do it. Does that make it OK? They should be punished if caught.
Yes, actions have consequences, but how many students have been kicked out of GU for illegal consumption of alcohol? I'm just putting some perspective on some of the respones being posted here. I think RebornZag makes a great point here:

I'm a counselor, and have done a lot of work in the drug and alcohol field. Tough love does not imply Kicking kids out of school. It does not include condemning kids, although condemnation is certainly a reaction to intitial news. People do get very angry. But the adult anger is not equated with tough love. Tough love has to do with setting up certain types of consequences (that would probably be viewed as many people as "tough") and sticking to them. I have never met a student yet who wanted to go to treatment. And I've yet seen one that was able,at first, to admit they had a problem. It's easier to kick a kid out of school then it is to admit they have a problem and try to help them overcome the problem. For a first time offense, in most cases I know involving alcohol and drugs, prison or jail sentences are not handed out by the Court. If there is admittance of guilt, I would expect to see a deferred sentence involving alcohol/drug treatment, two year aftercare program, drug and alcohol testing in some cases.

Drugs and alcohol abuse is a common social problem today in the lives of our students across America. Being Catholic does not protect us from addictiions. I could tell you many many stories in this area. I've not worked with college students yet, but have done much work with middle school and high school students. I have no idea about the severity of the problem as of right now, and the responsible thing for adults to do is get information before you start condemning students. I don't think kicking kids out of school, or out of a family, is the right idea in most cases. I think Josh and Davis deserve to be treated as we'd hopefully treat our own kids. And hopefully you'd not kick your kids out of your family, and they certainly wouldn't be kicked out of their schools. Define the problem, and get a tough solution.

From the reaction of many on this board, I would tend to think that many of you have no knowledge of, or experience with, drug and alcohol abuse. And quite frankly many of you appear to be living in the Dark Ages still concerning knowledge of treatment for people, and students, who might have a problem. I would assume Gonzaga has knowledge of current philosophy of addiction and treatment. Loving the person is the biggest part of tough love. The key is learning how to love a person with an addiction.
Yes, there will be consequences and so far GU is making the appropriate actions. I'm willing to give this a proper interval.

tobizag
02-10-2007, 02:58 PM
I am very disappointed and sad. Can't believe this happened.

TheZagPhish
02-10-2007, 03:29 PM
The whole "this drug vs. that drug" argument is a palaver, it seems to me. This is about decision making and responsibility. These two players exercised abysmal judgment last night and the consequences for them are entirely real world. They're on their own, no longer GU players. It's very, very tough. For them this will be a turning point, hopefully for the better.

Is there a precedent here that we could look at? In other words, could either of these guys clean up, put it together and somehow piece together basketball careers? Or is this the death knell for that aim? I know that they're not coming back to GU, but is there any way to play for some small school after straightening up? If not, then the ripples of these poor decisions just continue to move outward.

For the rest of the team I hope that they can find the will to hang on, to reach their goals. I have deep faith in the remaining players to quickly reinvent themselves, and yes, I know that this sentiment may be naively optimistic. But the team understands high stakes, overcoming adversity, loyalty to each other and how to move forward - even, at times, without Josh (not begrudging him some excellent ball playing this season). I see this community and the larger Spokane community rallying to support this team and I am immediately hopeful.

Sad, disheartened, disappointed and worried too -- but hopeful. The program will prevail.

Zag2Feisty
02-10-2007, 03:36 PM
Funny story here about precedents of players getting busted for drugs and going on to play basketball.

One of the BEST (and loudest) games I ever saw in K1, Zags were down big at the half to Pepperdine (or was it Santa Clara... I detested both in those days). We started the second half on a huge run and went on to win the game.

What does this have to do with drug use? Well, the Kennel was instrumental in getting into the head of a certain player who had been kicked out of Notre Dame for.... that's right, marijuana. This resulted in a technical foul on said player, along with many blown shots. And BOY did I feel fairly smug at that moment that none of OUR players were susceptible to that kind of head game. Well, times change, and it is sobering to know that we really aren't any better than anyone else. All the claims of 'gee, like this doesn't happen EVERYWHERE' are true. And that is what makes me sad. This isn't everywhere else. This is Gonzaga.

Zag2feisty - class of 2000

ZaginLaw
02-10-2007, 03:44 PM
Addiction and treatment counseling and tough love lessons are not the function of a university - even a Catholic university. Being kicked out of school for a conviction isn't tough love - it's just the basic level of standards for an educational setting. Tough love by definition cannot be dished out by an institution of higher education.

If one thinks these kids need to be expelled from school doesn't mean you'd kick them out of your family. If these were my kids I remove them from Gonzaga and bring them into the proper setting for treatment, brining them closer to my family.

I think Reborn's post begins to mix apples and oranges. There is a difference between Gonzaga University and the greater Catholic community. I hope people don't get upset at Gonzaga for any actions because on thinks Gonzaga should act the same way one would expect the greater Catholic community to act.

zagco
02-10-2007, 03:52 PM
I have expressed my concerns about what I've called chemistry issues revolving around Raivio and Heytvelt for a while now, usually to be ignored or have my concerns dismissed. I remain convinced that this team has serious issues, and it looks like the dam has finally broken. Now, perhaps, we can start addressing the serious problems that have prevented a massively talented team from performing at anywhere NEAR its level. :mad:

roxdoc
02-10-2007, 04:22 PM
I'm the one who introduced the term "tough love" on this thread.

Reborn said: I'm a counselor, and have done a lot of work in the drug and alcohol field. Tough love does not imply Kicking kids out of school.

I never mentioned kicking them out of school, but off the team (if of course proven guilty! - until then suspended).

RebornZag
02-10-2007, 04:25 PM
I appreciate your post Zaginlaw: I agree with almost all of what you say. I truly never meant to imply that GU should do the treatment or provide the counseling. Treatment is done in a treatment center. And I think we all know GU is not that. In terms of whether it is a responsiblility of a University to offer educational classes in Addictions Theory and Treatment I would suppose itwould be up to the University. I know most do teach it. In fact a person can now get a Phd in it, an MA and BA....So many institutions of higher learning do understand that Alcoholism and Drug Addiction is a serious problem in our society, and as responsible educators are trying to find solutions and understanding to this problem just as one would with any other.

I do agree that there is a huge difference between GU and Catholic Communities. If GU has a policy of kicking every kid out of school who has a drug or alcohol problem, I would NOT expect to see many students there. And I see in GU policies that it says the same for alcohol as it does for drugs. Gonzaga ultimately has to answer to it's trustees and alumni, and I will be watching this very closely. It is a private school....And in that sense has the right to do whatever it proposes to do.

I understand your feelings about "if" you had a child in a similar situation. Of course you'd want them in treatment...naturally outside GU since we know GU doesn't do that. But eventually, your child will need to make his/her own decisions....and they can not stay at home forever....or live near their parents forever so you can protect them. It just doesn't work that way my good friend. Wherever you go, to any university or college or high school or middle school in this country you will not only finds drugs and alcohol, but a lot of them. It is a tremendous social problem facing all of us today. And it is NOT going away, and is only getting worse each year. Being an alcoholic or addict is not the end of the world. It can be a new beginning. I hope it turns out that way for both Josh and Davis.

ZagDaddy
02-10-2007, 04:37 PM
I've found this thread to be a most fascinating read--particularly what I would characterize as people's over-reaction to this admittedly disappointing event. I can't help but wonder if much of people's response has more to do with this incident piercing the veil of Gonzaga's perceived immunity from societal afflictions than the transgression itself.

Like it or not, Gonzaga like the rest of society is comprised of human beings with the same challenges, temptations and shortcomings of the rest of American society. I'm willing to bet that if we turned over more rocks on campus we would find there are thefts,drugs, date rapes, assaults etc. Now, I would like to believe the quantity is less than on campuses in other parts of the country but the Gonzaga community is still comprised of people.

It seems like many people here are too anxious to toss these young men to the side, but I have to wonder if that response is more a response to the perceived "disgrace" it has caused the Gonzaga family than the actual incident.

We could cover our eyes, cast the players aside and go on pretending that things like this don't go on at Gonzaga. But the true strength of this program will best be realized in the acknowledgment that GU faces the same challenges as the rest of America and the deployment of a compassionate model which the entire Gonzaga community can be proud.

zagfever86
02-10-2007, 04:46 PM
I've found this thread to be a most fascinating read--particularly what I would characterize as people's over-reaction to this admittedly disappointing event. I can't help but wonder if much of people's response has more to do with this incident piercing the veil of Gonzaga's perceived immunity from societal afflictions than the transgression itself.

Like it or not, Gonzaga like the rest of society is comprised of human beings with the same challenges, temptations and shortcomings of the rest of American society. I'm willing to bet that if we turned over more rocks on campus we would find there are thefts,drugs, date rapes, assaults etc. Now, I would like to believe the quantity is less than on campuses in other parts of the country but the Gonzaga community is still comprised of people.

It seems like many people here are too anxious to toss these young men to the side, but I have to wonder if that response is more a response to the perceived "disgrace" it has caused the Gonzaga family than the actual incident.

We could cover our eyes, cast the players aside and go on pretending that things like this don't go on at Gonzaga. But the true strength of this program will best be realized in the acknowledgment that GU faces the same challenges as the rest of America and the deployment of a compassionate model which the entire Gonzaga community can be proud.

Maybe the best post I've ever read on a message board period.

spudzag
02-10-2007, 04:56 PM
It's hard for me to concieve a scenerio that puts the situation in a positive light. Receiving the spotlight that these two young men they are held to a high standard than others being ambassadors for the Unversity. How this ishandled will be a defining moment for the program and Unversity regardless of your opinion.

How do you suppose Luke Babbitt and Theodore Jordan's parents well receive news?

yourmom
02-10-2007, 06:17 PM
We forgive you but you are off the team is certainly gospel.

It's not just his basketball at stake here, it's his life. If the powers at be think kicking him off the team would help him, then that's what is going to happen. It's called love and logic.

ZagNick
02-10-2007, 07:01 PM
Were there more people in the car than Josh and Theo ? Thanks....ZN

ZagPants
02-10-2007, 07:02 PM
Did you hear anything about more people being arrested? No? Oh.

gozagswoohoo
02-10-2007, 07:05 PM
Were there more people in the car than Josh and Theo


OJ Simpson, Jeffrey Dahmer, and that guy who played Mr. Belvedere

ZagPants
02-10-2007, 07:07 PM
Emmanuel Lewis was in the back, bound and gagged.
http://image.com.com/tv/images/processed/photo_viewer/a6/15/7648.jpg

spudzag
02-10-2007, 07:11 PM
[QUOTE][/Q Mark Few said prior to Saturday's home game against Saint Mary's College. "We regret the far-reaching effect this has on our program and the university." UOTE]

ZaginLaw
02-10-2007, 07:43 PM
Good insights by all. I'd hope I did ellude that kids with alcohol and drug problems should be kicked out of school. I wrote or intended to write person convicted and should elaborate of a felony. I don't know the exact policy GU has but I believe most have a policy of expelling students convicted of a crime/felony.

Sad situation for all and glad the kids won.

former1dog
02-10-2007, 09:15 PM
I sure wish you folks would stop using the term "kids". Josh Heytvelt is a grown man and a parent of a little girl. He is responsible for his decisions and behaviour, just like the rest of us.

Theo just turned 21

These two are grown adults, not kids.

NJZag
02-11-2007, 09:35 AM
Link:

http://gozags.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/021007aaa.html

I'm going to sticky this, in locked mode, for awhile. Board visitors should have the opportunity to see the statement issued from the Athletic Department at Gonzaga University before wading into a lot of speculative posts and debates.

In addition, the complete letter of Gonzaga University President Fr. Spitzer is reprinted:

Dear Members of the Gonzaga Community,

As you may have heard, two of our basketball players, Josh Heytvelt and Theo Davis, were arrested last night on charges of possession of illegal substances. This news has reached every media outlet and is being extensively covered nationally.

I have met with Trustee Chair Mike Patterson, Coach Mark Few and Athletic Director Mike Roth. We are currently investigating the facts surrounding the situation, and I assure you we are taking these allegations very seriously.

The same norms and procedures of discipline will be applied to these students as to any other students at the university. Please keep these players, their teammates and the coaches in your prayers. They will need our support, both temporally and spiritually.

Robert J. Spitzer, S.J.
President
----------------

Since April of last year, the collegiate sports world has had situations at two notable private universities involving athletes accused of crimes.

From Duke University comes the lesson that mistakes arise when people rush to judgment and "assume" they know all the facts based on early reports.

From Notre Dame in very recent weeks, in an instance of misdemeanor marijuana possession charges against a basketball player, there are other lessons about accountability, responsibility, penalties, and compassion.

As Gonzaga University investigates facts, only the institution itself can determine an appropriate response. There is likely to be information which is confidential and internal to the university, and further protected under FERPA.

Board members are encouraged to pause and reflect before hitting their keyboards.

Casual readers are encouraged to separate the factual from the speculative in posts lacking links or citations to published sources or official statements.

An attorney not involved in the defense of either player offered some insights about State of Washington laws and procedures which may (or may not) be relevant.

http://www.kxly.com/news/?sect_rank=1&section_id=559&story_id=8425

meadgrad02
02-12-2007, 11:10 PM
..

gozagswoohoo
02-12-2007, 11:11 PM
not sure how long this thread will last...but when I first read the news about the arrest, I called up GUinSTL and told him "There goes the streak"...

zags422
02-12-2007, 11:11 PM
...

adoptedzag
02-12-2007, 11:13 PM
Josh wouldn't have helped our horrendous free throw shooting.

zags422
02-12-2007, 11:16 PM
yes he would have helped our horrendous free throw shooting.

dpouley
02-12-2007, 11:16 PM
I have to agree that Josh may not have helped all that much tonight. SC was hitting everything from the line and beyond the arc. What could Josh have done to prevent either of those things.

I really don't know why Few did not go to the press earlier in the game, or why the team did not get a fire under its but until 10 minutes left in the second half. Had they surged like they did at the 30 minute mark within the last two minutes of the first half it may have been a completely different game.

meadgrad02
02-12-2007, 11:17 PM
I don't think his inside presence would have hurt. It's just all really too bad, that it had to happen this weekend.

NVzag
02-12-2007, 11:20 PM
Josh has nothing to do with the fact that SC was 8 of fricking 12 from three & GU was 10 of frickin 24 from the free throw line in the 1st half.

former1dog
02-12-2007, 11:22 PM
I don't think his inside presence would have hurt. It's just all really too bad, that it had to happen this weekend.


Please replace with, "at all".

meadgrad02
02-12-2007, 11:24 PM
very true, F1dog, but you know what i mean.

former1dog
02-12-2007, 11:34 PM
very true, F1dog, but you know what i mean.

yep. I do. As I'm sure you understand what I meant.

God Bless All, have a good night.

ZagNut08
02-12-2007, 11:38 PM
Gonzaga started off doubling down in the post...although the perimiter D is never great, a lot more open looks came as a result. It is what happens when Josh is gone and we have a 6'6 pendo (who gave an amazing effort tonight) gaurding a 7ft 350 pound guy inside

Great effort tonight by the guys...too bad they dont have the whole team to help them


Wish knight could have taken josh's uni and gone out and played for us tonight

TheZagPhish
02-12-2007, 11:44 PM
Wish knight could have taken josh's uni and gone out and played for us tonight

Hear that.

Argentum
02-13-2007, 12:44 AM
How many offensive rebounds did we get this game? Not too many until late in the second half. How many blocks on drives did we have? Not enough to seriously deter Pariseau and Angley from driving and scoring at the hoop like they did.

GUgirl
02-13-2007, 04:45 AM
...if the outcome last night would have been different with Josh on the floor. But it seems possible, and all we can do is wonder. And that makes his selfishness beyond frustrating...

gozagswoohoo
02-13-2007, 06:56 AM
We will never know, but Josh would definitley have made a difference. We probably wouldn't have been doubling down so much for one thing, allowing for that kick out all night. Plus, three errant FT shooting may have resulted from distractions with everything going on, etc. We may still have lost, who knows, but IMO he would have made the difference. We had 0 inside presence. Santa Clara could gaurd us close outside all night long because of it.

wazZag
02-13-2007, 09:33 AM
Josh would have spread the defense and changed the entire complexion of the game. As for the threes, I have to believe that having pendo, downs, et al guarding guys 300lbs in the post detracted a bit for the perimeter D.

UberZagFan
02-13-2007, 10:02 AM
Gonzaga started off doubling down in the post...a

Been saying that for some time now. GU doubles too much before a post presence is established. Who knows? Maybe the post player will have an off night and maybe Pendo, Mallon, Kuso had play him straight up? Why oh why must GU always allow the open three?


Josh wouldn't have helped our horrendous free throw shooting.

All players not named Raivio were 10-24 from the stripe. JH shoots 72% from the stripe.

Other aspects aside from FT shooting:

The forwards were 5-12 from the field. JH shoots 54% from the field.

The team averages about 6 more points than it scored last night. I can't find the number now, but I believe GU's home court ppg is even higher. JH averages 15.5 ppg.

The team averages 37.6 boards a night with JH pulling down 7.7. Last night GU only pulled down 31.

Don't misinterpret this. I'm not blaming JH or making excuses for the rest of the team for playing so unenthused in the first half. I'm just pointing out that any team would miss a player that is such a big part of the production. 16 and 8 a game? It doesn't matter how big the blowout either--because the game started 0-0 and who knows what would have happened after the first 3 if GU comes back down the court and Pargo finds JH behind his man for an alley-oop dunk??? Just saying. :rolleyes:

gozagswoohoo
02-13-2007, 10:12 AM
good post Uberzag.

brasszag
02-13-2007, 10:25 AM
I don't think they were unentheused - just mentally and emotionally worn out.

I imagine the locker room isn't a very comfortable place to be these days.

zags422
02-13-2007, 10:54 AM
we would have won that game by multiple digits had Heytvelt played. We would've been able to guard the perimeter more effectively. #5 would not have had any layups whatsoever b/c the ball would have been relocated into the stands by Josh. Mallon wouldn't have been in being the offense, and Josh is a very very much more consisten FT shooter. And a side note, the whole team needs FT practice besides Heytvelt and the obvious Raivio.

jayray
02-13-2007, 11:46 AM
we would have won that game by multiple digits had Heytvelt played.

And if we would have made free-throws we also would have won. So what is your point? Plenty of blame to go all around.

LongIslandZagFan
02-13-2007, 12:20 PM
we would have won that game by multiple digits had Heytvelt played. We would've been able to guard the perimeter more effectively. #5 would not have had any layups whatsoever b/c the ball would have been relocated into the stands by Josh. Mallon wouldn't have been in being the offense, and Josh is a very very much more consisten FT shooter. And a side note, the whole team needs FT practice besides Heytvelt and the obvious Raivio.

Heytvelt won't be practicing anything for awhile.

GFGU
02-13-2007, 02:40 PM
Links to the court records put up on the Spokesmanreview's website are below. It sheds some light on a few days worth of speculation and conjecture. Regardless of what happens basketball wise, I hope these guys can straighten out their lives.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/docs/021307_heytveltreport.pdf

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/docs/021307_davisreport.pdf

That all being said...go Zags.

jayray
02-13-2007, 03:07 PM
"When both suspects were questioned separately, neither claimed any knowledge of the hallucinogenic mushrooms that were in the vehicle."

sharpzag
02-13-2007, 03:20 PM
"Officer McMurtrey had contacted the passenger in the front of the vehicle and could smell the strong odor of burnt marijuana coming from his person.."

and...

"Theus Davis revealed a burnt, rolled, marijuana joint..."

There is no mention that Heytvelt had been smoking or that there were any drugs on him...

former1dog
02-13-2007, 03:22 PM
There is no mention that Heytvelt had been smoking or that there were any drugs on him...

I would guess that as the driver of the vehicle he would ultimately be responsible for the drugs found in the vehicle. Those drugs also happened to be inside of a backpack that was identified as belonging to Josh.

Several lawyers out there lurking (maybe even a judge or 2), that could clarify this for us though.

sanfranzagsguy20
02-13-2007, 03:23 PM
yeah but werent the shroom brownies in josh's backpack? interesting that they were in his bag and he didnt know...

hls97
02-13-2007, 03:24 PM
The bag of 'shrooms and the brownies? Wow, disappointing. Suggests he was a regular user, not just some once-in-a-lifetime event.

Really bizarre that a big-time college player (with NBA aspirations) would be in to 'shrooms of all things. You can kind of see the marijuana (after all, look at the NBA), but 'shrooms? 'Shroom brownies?? I don't recall Jerry Garcia playing much ball back in the day.

sullyzag66
02-13-2007, 03:25 PM
Also interesting that he was not cited for driving while impaired.

hls97
02-13-2007, 03:26 PM
I would guess that as the driver of the vehicle he would ultimately be responsible for the drugs found in the vehicle. Those drugs also happened to be inside of a backpack that was identified as belonging to Josh.

Several lawyers out there lurking (maybe even a judge or 2), that could clarify this for us though.

Lawyer here. Generally, a driver of a vehicle is deemed to be in control of what goes on inside a vehicle. Therefore, even if the drugs were not Josh's, he can be charged with their possession.

The police report was a little confusing because it wasn't clear if the 'shrooms were IN Josh's backpack or NEXT TO his backpack, in a different bag.

sharpzag
02-13-2007, 03:26 PM
and... there were 2 bags. Which would maybe imply both players had been wearing a back pack. I would assume the way it was written that the mushrooms were in the bag with Heytvelt's name on it... however, that sentence could also be read to mean that the battle in seattle bag had heytvelt's name on it...

I am not saying that Heytvelt is in the clear, but if he was not on drugs, and was not responsible for any drugs... that does make it better for him I would imagine...

AllezZags
02-13-2007, 03:27 PM
I read that the "Battle in Seattle" backpack had Josh's name and number embroidered on it.

The mushrooms were in the "Basketball Hall of Fame" backpack next to the aforementioned bag.

To me, this sounds like the "Hall of Fame" backpack is the one in question- are we to assume it was TD's? Even if it is found that TD was the owner of the backpack containing the shrooms, Josh can still be held responsible because the drugs were in his car.:(

former1dog
02-13-2007, 03:28 PM
The police report was a little confusing because it wasn't clear if the 'shrooms were IN Josh's backpack or NEXT TO his backpack, in a different bag.


I read the report to indicate that there were shrooms on top of or near his backpack and also shroom laced brownies inside the back pack, wrapped in foil. Oh yeah, the "raw" shrooms were in a baggy in plain view.

former1dog
02-13-2007, 03:29 PM
I read that the "Battle in Seattle" backpack had Josh's name and number embroidered on it.

The mushrooms were in the "Basketball Hall of Fame" backpack next to the aforementioned bag.

To me, this sounds like the "Hall of Fame" backpack is the one in question- are we to assume it was TD's? Even if it is found that TD was the owner of the backpack containing the shrooms, Josh can still be held responsible because the drugs were in his car.:(


I stand corrected.

BTW - Are you formerly Ghost of Marty Wall?

sharpzag
02-13-2007, 03:29 PM
but... even if Josh were responsible because it was his car... this could start to look more like a wrong place at the wrong time kind of thing for heytvelt.

which is why it is bad to assume he is doing weed and shrooms before a big game before we know all of the facts...

NVzag
02-13-2007, 03:30 PM
Also interesting that he was not cited for driving while impaired.

That was addressed in one of the TV station articles, KREM or KHQ I think, don't remember offhand which one.

DWI is a gross misdemeanor, while possession of the shrooms is a felony. The cops concentrated on the felony charge rather than the misdeameanor.

DWI/drugs is usually pretty hard to prove anyhow, unless WA has per se laws...and I don't know if they do.

One of the lawyers around here should come clear everything up for us pretty soon.

:)

hls97
02-13-2007, 03:33 PM
but... even if Josh were responsible because it was his car... this could start to look more like a wrong place at the wrong time kind of thing for heytvelt.

which is why it is bad to assume he is doing weed and shrooms before a big game before we know all of the facts...

I agree with this, but I think we can all also agree that whatever he was doing, it wasn't good. I mean, driving at midnight with Davis, who had a joint rolled up in his coat pocket and an open bag with 'shrooms in it. There is just no conceivable way that Josh DIDN'T know what was going on.

Was he high? Does he do drugs? Not 100% clear. What is clear is that he exercised terribly poor judgment.

jayray
02-13-2007, 03:36 PM
Was he high? Does he do drugs? Not 100% clear. What is clear is that he exercised terribly poor judgment.

Yeah, Josh doesn't do drugs. And neither him or Theo knew the mushrooms were in the trunk. A Santa Clara sympathizer planted the evidence. Now we just need a good lawyer to get them off.

zagfever86
02-13-2007, 03:40 PM
This might sounds far fetched, but is it beyond realm of possibility that the mushrooms were planted on him at the party by someone jealous of them?

It sounds far fetched, but why would the tail lights not be working on a 2006 Trailblazer? Someone who didn't like him could have easily planted those mushrooms on him and and disabled the tail lights. When your a star basketball player, sure to be in the NBA and gorgeous girls most likely flocking all over you, people will do a lot of things out of spite.

Okay, maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but doesn't anybody else think that it could be a possibility?

hls97
02-13-2007, 03:41 PM
I think the tail lights weren't turned on? Like maybe they were driving without their lights on, at midnight? Dope has done stranger things...

TheZagPhish
02-13-2007, 03:44 PM
I don't recall Jerry Garcia playing much ball back in the day.

I'm pretty sure that Jerry would have had smack brownies anyway.

zagfever86
02-13-2007, 03:45 PM
I think the tail lights weren't turned on? Like maybe they were driving without their lights on, at midnight? Dope has done stranger things...

Aren't tail lights only on when the front lights aren't on. It sounds like the cop saw them as they passed by, wouldn't he note in his police report that the head lights weren't on either and don't you think he would check. I'm having a hard time believing that they have cars these days that have two separate functions to turn on the the tail/head lights.

zagfever86
02-13-2007, 03:45 PM
I think the tail lights weren't turned on? Like maybe they were driving without their lights on, at midnight? Dope has done stranger things...

You know your old school when you refer to weed as dope...lol.:D

lothar98zag
02-13-2007, 03:49 PM
Even with more official news being released, it looks like there is still a large amount of speculation and interpretation going on.

remember - us nobodies in the internets still don't have all the info and should proceed w/ caution when discussing all of this


carry on...

hls97
02-13-2007, 03:50 PM
Aren't tail lights only on when the front lights aren't on. It sounds like the cop saw them as they passed by, wouldn't he note in his police report that the head lights weren't on either and don't you think he would check. I'm having a hard time believing that they have cars these days that have two separate functions to turn on the the tail/head lights.

The police report did say that the "tail lights were not illuminated after dark." That suggests the lights weren't turned on, not that they were broken.

sharpzag
02-13-2007, 03:50 PM
Aren't tail lights only on when the front lights aren't on. It sounds like the cop saw them as they passed by, wouldn't he note in his police report that the head lights weren't on either and don't you think he would check. I'm having a hard time believing that they have cars these days that have two separate functions to turn on the the tail/head lights.

It says the cop approached from behind. However, it is interesting that there is no mention of headlights. I dont know what type of street they were on. If it is a major street, I would assume that they wouldnt be dumb enough to turn the headlights off...if it is a side street, it could make sense that they had turned off the headlights so that they wouldnt be noticed....

it is interesting that the original report was that the taillight was "busted." One would assume a new car would not have burnt out headlights unless something had been done to them...

zagfever86
02-13-2007, 03:55 PM
The police report did say that the "tail lights were not illuminated after dark." That suggests the lights weren't turned on, not that they were broken.

The police report didn't go into any detail of what Josh and Theo said to them. All the officer reported is what he saw. All not illuminated means is that they weren't bright. Meanwhile, broken is completely different then disabled. It would take any person who knew what they were doing two minutes and a screwdriver to pop the tail lights and disable them.

Disabling the tail lights is more realistic for a person looking to do something like this, because while your driving a driver can't notice if they have tail lights out, but they definitely can tell if they have their headlights out.

As I said earlier I find it very hard to believe that the car has two separate functions to turn on both sets of lights.

hls97
02-13-2007, 03:57 PM
The police report didn't go into any detail of what Josh and Theo said to them. All the officer reported is what he saw. All not illuminated means is that they weren't bright. Meanwhile, broken is completely different then disabled. It would take any person who knew what they were doing two minutes and a screwdriver to pop the tail lights and disable them.

I'm not sure what your point is. My point is that the report says (1) the officer approached the car from BEHIND and (2) the tail lights were not illuminated. That suggests to me that they had their lights off. Not that they were broken and not that someone (Dick Davey?) disabled them.

zagfever86
02-13-2007, 04:03 PM
I'm not sure what your point is. My point is that the report says (1) the officer approached the car from BEHIND and (2) the tail lights were not illuminated. That suggests to me that they had their lights off. Not that they were broken and not that someone (Dick Davey?) disabled them.

My point is, not illuminated means not bright. Which could mean that they are either broken, not turned on or disabled.

Since the officer didn't say they were broken. It almost eliminates that possibility. (Although the report doesn't take into account the players statements to the officers at the time of the incident). Sometimes officers leave out details like that, and can be very vague. Leaving out critical information on police reports is a major way that people are found innocent in cases like these.

Since its very doubtful that any car (especially a new one) has two separate functions in order to turn on the cars head/tail lights its doubtful that the tail lights wouldn't be working while the head lights were (as of now all we know is that the tail lights weren't working, no mention of the headlights). I find this especially to be true of a 2006 model vehicle.

All that leads possibility 3, that they were disabled to be a viable one.

sharpzag
02-13-2007, 04:05 PM
if they were disabled... it makes possession of shrooms tougher to prove...

hls97
02-13-2007, 04:05 PM
Of course, the MUCH more likely explanation is that the lights of the car (i.e., the headlights and tail lights) were not turned on. Since the officer approached the car from behind, he probably didn't note that the headlights weren't on because he couldn't see them.

Seems a tad more likely than that some disgruntled, jealous party-goer sabotaged their lights and planted drugs.

zagfever86
02-13-2007, 04:06 PM
if they were disabled... it makes possession of shrooms tougher to prove...

It definitely does. The only thing they would have them for is the weed in Theo's coat pocket.

zagfever86
02-13-2007, 04:11 PM
Of course, the MUCH more likely explanation is that the lights of the car (i.e., the headlights and tail lights) were not turned on. Since the officer approached the car from behind, he probably didn't note that the headlights weren't on because he couldn't see them.

Seems a tad more likely than that some disgruntled, jealous party-goer sabotaged their lights and planted drugs.

You don't think the entire time that the officer didn't go to the front of the car to check on the vehicle? Or when they brought the K-9 unit in no one at all checked the front lights of the vehicle?

I don't see how during the entire stop neither of the cops, nor the K-9 unit officer wouldn't notice the headlights. The way the report is done, the officer leaves to suggest that it was the tail lights only. A perfect hammering point for a lawyer to capitalize on.

hls97
02-13-2007, 04:13 PM
I never said that he wouldn't have noticed that AFTER the car was pulled over. It's just that the police report gives the REASON for why the car was pulled over as being that the tail lights were not illuminated. That's why the car was pulled over -- that's what is important for the probable cause finding. Whether the headlights were on or off is not material for the probable cause statement.

RenoZag
02-13-2007, 04:21 PM
Oliver North, when asked how he expected to contend with the Iran-Contra mess from a legal standpoint said he would rely on "Trust in the Lord and a good lawyer."

For their sake, I hope the accused have as creative a group of minds at their disposal as the talents displayed in this thread.

No, I'm not being sarcastic. . .some of the doubts, theories, and "what ifs" raised above have me scratching my head in wonder on one hand and nodding my head in agreement on the other.

Too bad all this mental horsepower can't be converted into horse sense and transplanted into the brains of JH & TD. Even after the fact, they could use a good dose of mentoring and plain speaking some of you clearly possess.

4EVERaZAG
02-13-2007, 04:21 PM
To answer the question on why would the headlights be on and not the taillights. On Chevy trucks there is a dial on the dashboard left of the steering wheel that controls the lights. When the normal switch for headlights is turned on and that dial is spun all the way to the bottom the headlights will still be on and the tail lights will be off. This feature is for if you are working outside in a field or something and need some light but don't need your taillights on. Consquently the dial also controls the illumination of the speedometer and all the other dials as well as the intensity of the dome light if it is turned on. In this case their brake lights would still be functional just their running taillights would not be illuminated. So their headlights couldn't have easily been on and didn't realize that their taillights were off because that dial was spun down.

hls97
02-13-2007, 04:23 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. Sounds like that could have, indeed, been what happened.

gozagswoohoo
02-13-2007, 04:27 PM
This is ###ent information. Thanks

dpouley
02-13-2007, 04:45 PM
This might sounds far fetched, but is it beyond realm of possibility that the mushrooms were planted on him at the party by someone jealous of them?

It sounds far fetched, but why would the tail lights not be working on a 2006 Trailblazer? Someone who didn't like him could have easily planted those mushrooms on him and and disabled the tail lights. When your a star basketball player, sure to be in the NBA and gorgeous girls most likely flocking all over you, people will do a lot of things out of spite.

Okay, maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but doesn't anybody else think that it could be a possibility?


Yes you are seriously grasping at straws. Seriously go back and read what you just wrote.

SoCalZag
02-13-2007, 04:46 PM
I have driven from the South Hill to 5-Mile without my lights on by accident...and was not pulled over, much less searched by a K9 unit. Is it common practice in Spokane (or Cheney) now to have a unit like that called in when driving with one's lights off? Maybe the smell of ### made the officer make the call - but typically, on a side street, they would approach from the driver's side...a burnt joint probably wouldn't smell all the way across the car from Theo's pocket unless he had been smoking seconds before, or the car was full of smoke ala 'Fast Times'.

Sad situation all the way around - I'm sure we'll hear more details as things progress.

freejoe69
02-13-2007, 04:50 PM
Maybe Jack Bauer had something to do with it.

lothar98zag
02-13-2007, 04:54 PM
This is ###ent information. Thanks
What's w/ the censor on this site?

Asotin
02-13-2007, 04:59 PM
A cheney cop told me that the lights were not on. He wasn't the one who pulled Josh over, but of course all the cops knew the story.

RenoZag
02-13-2007, 05:02 PM
It was Colonel Mustard with the lead pipe in the conservatory. . .:p

lothar98zag
02-13-2007, 05:26 PM
A cheney cop told me that the lights were not on. He wasn't the one who pulled Josh over, but of course all the cops knew the story.
Speaking of talking to a cop...

One of the officers who works with the DARE program has passed along the following warning and asked that it be shared with all drivers. (LINK (http://www.hoax-slayer.com/flash-lights-myth.html))

This is an extremely serious matter. If you are driving after dark and you see a car without its headlights on do not flash your lights, do not blow your horn or make any signals to the driver of the other car. This is a new common gang initiation game going on the streets.

The new member being initiated drives along without his headlights on until someone notices and flashes their headlights or makes some other action to signal him. The gang member is now required to chase the car and to shoot at or into the car in order to complete his initiation requirements.

Please take this seriously. This is not a joke. Please pass this on to everyone you know on email and in person. It could save someone's life!

























...btw, if you've never heard this before - I'm joking -seriously click the link, it's a myth!

GUgirl
02-13-2007, 05:27 PM
...typically, on a side street, they would approach from the driver's side...a burnt joint probably wouldn't smell all the way across the car from Theo's pocket unless he had been smoking seconds before, or the car was full of smoke ala 'Fast Times'.

Actually, I've observed that a lot of routine traffic stops lately have been proceeding with the officer approaching the passenger's side window. I think it's some sort of safety precaution? Anyone else confirm this?

hls97
02-13-2007, 05:31 PM
Actually, I've observed that a lot of routine traffic stops lately have been proceeding with the officer approaching the passenger's side window. I think it's some sort of safety precaution? Anyone else confirm this?

Not sure about a single-officer stop approaching the passenger's window. Certainly if there are two officers, one will position himself (or herself) at the passenger-side rear of the vehicle and keep watch. The initiating officer will then approach the driver's window.

CaZagAlum
02-13-2007, 05:31 PM
An officer pulled behind me after I blew out a tire and he approached my passenger side window, even though I was the only one up front. Granted, it was on a freeway...

gozagswoohoo
02-13-2007, 05:37 PM
Granted, it was on a freeway...

Were there any ###-holes in the freeway?

thickman1
02-13-2007, 05:41 PM
After reading and rereading the prelim finding I think the wording on regarding the backpacks is pretty clear.

The baggie of mushrooms was protrudigin out the top of a black "Basketball Hall of Fame Challenge" backback, which was sitting next to a 2006 "Battle in Seattle Gonzaga University" backback. It (the BHOFC backpack) had Heytvelt's name and jersey number embroidered on the front. Also in this backpack were three foil-wrapped brownie muffins that contained hallucinogenic mushrooms.

The officer states that the BHOFC backback was next to the BoS backback and that it had Heytvelt's name jersey, blah blah blah.

It doesn't look good that the 'shrooms were in Josh's backpack. Sad, very sad. Oh it still makes me angry. :mad:

lothar98zag
02-13-2007, 05:47 PM
My question - does/did this story lead off the local news shows tonight or not?


(I rrrrrreally hope it's "not")

spokane86
02-13-2007, 07:40 PM
yep...every station. they were all so giddy to have gotten their hands on those juicy documents. the state of our news media (local, national, etc) really is sad.

FuManShoes
02-13-2007, 07:59 PM
Lothar, please tell me your "warning" post is a joke. That has got to be the oldest urban legend on the books, right up there with THE CANDY MAN. Besides, I never flash another car with my headlights; I show 'em the ole full moon.

jake
02-13-2007, 09:54 PM
I'm not sure why we're arguing about if there lights were sabotaged, if the drugs were planted, questioning if Josh can get off etc.. I understand those are legal issues, but getting off on a technicality is, in my mind, not best for Josh or Theo. It is naive to think that they both didn't know what was going on, at least with the marijuana. I highly doubt this was a one time situation. I'm not saying either should have the book thrown at them, but I'm pretty confident both knew at least most of what was going on.

youreachiteach
02-13-2007, 10:06 PM
Word is Davis was just a passenger in the car and the mushrooms were not his nor did he know they were in there.

It doesnt look good for JH.

meadgrad02
02-13-2007, 10:11 PM
Word on the street?

lothar98zag
02-13-2007, 10:30 PM
Lothar, please tell me your "warning" post is a joke.

FuMan - read my whole post

FuManShoes
02-13-2007, 11:46 PM
FuMan - read my whole post

Doh, I'm dumb. Back to chugging coke and Pop Rocks

cair3
02-14-2007, 01:08 AM
See edit notes.

adoptedzag
02-15-2007, 10:20 AM
Cheney is not the place to be if you are going to speed, "california roll" at stop signs, drive while impaired, etc. I am a very good driver and have been pulled over for speeding twice in 2 years driving to EWU. Once for 47 in a 40 and once for 35 in a 30. That's how Cheney gets all of its money. That and parking tickets.

kitzbuel
02-15-2007, 10:47 AM
As I said earlier I find it very hard to believe that the car has two separate
functions to turn on both sets of lights.

My Passat has day time running lights which keep the headlamps on all the time. In order to turn the tail lights on I have to turn a switch.

GonzagaLove
02-15-2007, 05:40 PM
...or has he been suspended from school, too? I would guess he could continue classes until there is some basis for the school to take action. Anyone?

tobizag
02-15-2007, 05:47 PM
both theo and josh are still full time students...

LongIslandZagFan
02-15-2007, 06:25 PM
...or has he been suspended from school, too? I would guess he could continue classes until there is some basis for the school to take action. Anyone?


Regardless of what happens hoopswise they would techinically be allowed to attend classes until they meet with the Dean of Students, IIRC.

royzag
02-15-2007, 07:27 PM
A friend of mine said he wasn't in class yesterday. But they were talking about athletes and substance abuse, so who knows lol. Saw Theo at the COG, so I don't think they are suspended from school too. I would assume they are still allowed to take classes until the University deals with the issue.

CampChamp
02-15-2007, 08:08 PM
I have friends who have class with Theo and he has still been attending class. As far as Josh I have heard nothing.

thickman1
02-15-2007, 08:57 PM
I wonder what it feels like to walk into class with all eyes on you and you're personal life splattered on the TV and in the newspapers. Gotta be rough. Reap what you sow..

Zag509
02-15-2007, 09:08 PM
Lets hope these guys dont screw up thier education as well.