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jazzdelmar
02-06-2010, 03:24 PM
harris was awful, worst as a Zag... a blessing......selfish, I know....he blows up for 25/15 tdy he is GONE...maybe the biggest plus of the game

23dpg
02-06-2010, 03:30 PM
Yes, I thought it was a blessing, but not like that. I thought it made this a real team victory and brought out good play by a few other bigs (Sacre, Foster).

As far as Harris staying or going. I'll worry about that in June.

Jedster
02-06-2010, 03:32 PM
Certainly not the offensive stats we expect from him with only 6 pts. However, he did get 6 rebounds and led the team with 5 assists, so he did contribute. You could tell their game plan was focused on him quite a bit. I think their quickness gave him a bit of trouble, though shots just weren't falling.

I guess we can give him one mulligan for the season. At least this will motivate the heck out of him for St. Mary's! Look out Gaels!!

Nice to see we can win though when Elias struggles. Rob did step up with 13 pts and 6 boards in only 24 minutes.

misszigzag
02-06-2010, 03:35 PM
Yes, I thought it was a blessing, but not like that. I thought it made this a real team victory and brought out good play by a few other bigs (Sacre, Foster).

As far as Harris staying or going. I'll worry about that in June.

+1

Very well said.

Nevtelen
02-06-2010, 03:39 PM
Not even putting it in those terms: even though he struggled, I think the positive for him is that it gives him a good look at how hard it would be for him to succeed against the types of athletes with the kind of length that he would see in the NBA. I think it highlights some of the areas where he needs to develop. That will probably help him and motivate him IMO.

BobZag
02-06-2010, 03:40 PM
Memphis' length bothered Elias. He'll learn going forward. The NBA makes Memphis look short-armed. The team needs him to maximize results, tho.

jazzdelmar
02-06-2010, 03:50 PM
ur all reinforcing my point..ok, not "awful," surely subpar....but my main pt was IF he had gone 25/15 we wd be thinking differently abt nxt year....BZ's great note: NBA makes the Tigers look short armed!!!!

and yes, Sacre stepped up

who'da ever thought we'd win a big OOC game on free throws, 2 of which by Meech....

LynetteG
02-06-2010, 03:53 PM
I think it was a blessing in that the rest of this young team sees that they CAN win with Harris not chipping in a double-double each game. Great confidence builder for the rest of the squad!

maynard g krebs
02-06-2010, 04:14 PM
He got hammered a few times on the drive, no call. Bardo mentioned it. Seemed like it got in his head a bit and threw off his shot- pressing a little.
Everyone has an off game. The 5 assts, esp. the last one, were big, and showed the smarts to adjust and try to contribute in other ways.

Zagsker
02-06-2010, 04:16 PM
Harris struggling offensively made me even more optimistic about this team

gamagin
02-06-2010, 04:16 PM
harris was awful, worst as a Zag... a blessing......selfish, I know....he blows up for 25/15 tdy he is GONE...maybe the biggest plus of the game

but true. best,

Go TEAM Zags !

JohnOGU
02-06-2010, 04:19 PM
Unless he plans on being the next Charles Barkley, he's going to have to stay. His shot was not on today at all. I definitely think this game dropped his stock a bit.

1973Zag
02-06-2010, 04:37 PM
So he will be playing SMC with a chip on his shoulder:

gamagin
02-06-2010, 04:43 PM
again and again. He just had his phone off today. About a week ago there was a thread about Bio-Rythms or something which was accurate to the "T" on both Matt And Harris. My compliments to the Poster.

You had MB practically on life support. Seriously wounded and "burning up", if I recall. I was thinking of calling 911.

But MB kept twittering that he was not only ok, but having a life and fun, even. He even got stuck in an elevator. At any rate I set down the phone & decided he was far from needing triage.

At any rate I was thrilled he shook off his near-death experience to take Memphis to the woodshed. Weren't you ?

As for EH, he finally had a bad day. Memphis was ready for him. Memphis also mugged him a couple of hundred times and got away with it.

Not sure how hacking, scratching, pushing, biting and shoving effects bio rythms but what Memphis did sure kept him off balance. It sure didn't look like it had anything to do with his birth date. More like his running into a bunch of muggers and the refs who loved them.

Go TEAM Zags !

2wiceright
02-06-2010, 04:45 PM
I really think the refs were very inconsistent - especially with the no calls when he was shooting inside (he got hammered). No excuses though- they were bad on both teams. With that said he found other ways to help, 5 assists, rebounds, defense, etc. I think this will be a good lesson teaching him what He already knows- to adjust to the way the refs are calling the games...

Nice to see Meech hit two clutch free throws at the end, as well as another career high of 8 ponts(?) by big Will. Seems like Will couldn't keep up on defense but did well otherwise and keeps improving as the seasons moves on!

RenoZag
02-06-2010, 04:45 PM
and yes, Sacre stepped up

who'da ever thought we'd win a big OOC game on free throws, 2 of which by Meech....



Wow ! 2 ++ n 1 pst. U mst b gng sft, jz

gamagin
02-06-2010, 04:50 PM
he had kin at that game, according to Hud-Fox on the post game show. They didn't say (or I didn't hear) who in his family made it to the game.

But family was there to watch the big man put in a pretty fair day. And that has to be special for a kid who spends alot of time away from his loved ones.

I was Glad to hear it & hope you all are, too. I was also thrilled to see he picked up his game considerably vs. Memphis.

Go TEAM Zags !

HillBillyZag
02-06-2010, 05:27 PM
There are none of u who love these Zag players any more than I do, and while this fan believes before Elias Harris leaves GonZaga. hopefully in the 2012/13 season as a graduating Senior, he will leave memories that rival those of any prior Zags, after watching his defensive efforts, especially in the first half, I would say the young man would be much better served remaining in school, getting his degree, polishing his game and leading us to an NCAA Crown or two. The cash will always be there, and at times his defense was rather feeble.

BSUBronco74
02-06-2010, 05:45 PM
Granted Harris didn't light up the scoreboard today, but if you review that game, you will see that Coach Pastner had him well scouted, and the Tigers had him very well defended throughout the game. He got doubled every time he touched the ball on the perimeter, and when he took the ball inside he got absolutely brutalized going to the rim. The officials swallowed their whistles when he went to the hoop. Elias should have shot about 15 FT's today.

Given that, it didn't seem to bother him, he kept his poise and contributed in other ways. Note the 5 nice dimes and a worthy defensive presence, banging the boards when it was most needed, and on offense fearlessly going to the iron regardless of the non-calls.

The very threat of Elias Harris's potential damage to Memphis opened up the game for others. Sacre, Foster, Gray, Bouldin and even Meech were able to do a lot of damage inside and outside, due to the Tiger's concentration on Harris. These are things that typically don't get tallied in the stat sheet, but we should be aware of them. I thought Harris played a brilliant game today, never letting Memphis take their eyes off him even if his shots weren't dropping.

All in all, a beautifully played and well coached game for the Zags. They could have coughed it up late in the 2nd half against a fine opponent, in front of a hostile crowd of 18K Tiger fans, in fact it looked like that was going to be the case. Big ups to Memphis and Coach Pastner: when he went after the refs with 6-7 minutes to go, his team and the crowd responded and it almost turned that game around.

Fortunately, this version of the Zags feeds off that energy too. Great game.

U Zig, I Zag
02-06-2010, 07:17 PM
Harris struggling offensively made me even more optimistic about this team

Agreed. If we can play like that against that kind of homer ref'n with Harris not having much of an offensive game then it's a good sign.

I have been thinking, given the struggles he was having how would you have switched it up?

I am thinking that during the zone runs we were putting up on D move Harris out to the 3 and iso him on the upper corners of the arc, screens below and let him decide to go at the rim and finish or dish. The baseline deal was not in the cards today. He needed to move his approach to the top of the key. You handle length with aggressiveness and by giving yourself room to operate. The longer you are the more likely you are to rely on your arms to defend instead of your feet. Dribble drive and spin around them.

BSUBronco74
02-06-2010, 09:11 PM
"I have been thinking, given the struggles he was having how would you have switched it up?"

I wouldn't have switched it up at all. It played out perfectly. I don't think Elias minded if he didn't get his usual double double today.

roxdoc
02-06-2010, 09:31 PM
Let me start by saying I love Harris and think he will be a terrific player before he leaves. However, in 22 posts so far in this thread only HillBillyZag mentions his poor play on defense. For at least the last 3 games his D has been as inneffective as his offense was today. I know that the NBA is not known for D, but in my opinion Harris needs a LOT more work before he heads for the league.

Again, I support him and think he has tremendous potential to be an all round player that I trust the coaches will help him unleash.

Jedster
02-06-2010, 10:41 PM
I am thinking that during the zone runs we were putting up on D move Harris out to the 3 and iso him on the upper corners of the arc, screens below and let him decide to go at the rim and finish or dish. The baseline deal was not in the cards today. He needed to move his approach to the top of the key.

He did have a great move in the 2nd half. About 15 feet out along the baseline he pump faked and the defender bit. Elias blew by him to the rim, but like most shots today, it didn't go in. I love it when he can isolate outside with a big defender on him as he has the quickness to blow past them. He's hitting it well enough from outside that they have to respect the shot.

rawkmandale
02-07-2010, 01:35 AM
I suspect that St. Mary's will wish on Thursday that Mr. Harris had not had a rough game (in terms of the shots falling in the hole) against Memphis. I also suspect that he will posterize the entire Gaels outfit!

Now, to be clear - I do like and respect St. Mary's. But, athletes (and people) like Elias Harris have a way of responding to adversity.

ZagsGoZags
02-07-2010, 01:47 AM
Thanks Bronco
I read all the posts tonight, not wanting to repeat anybody
and you opined exactly what I was thinking

memphis was gunning for Harris, willing to foul him to death if necessary, and Harris's reaction was to make more assists, and Few adjusted by feeding Sacre and Will more because Harris was double and triple teamed all game long

This makes Harris one of the top contributors to the win, and not really, in my book, having an 'off night'

ZagMan in Philly
02-07-2010, 05:00 AM
Harris had an off offensive game, but he was a major factor down the stretch. He made a nice post move and the put in right after the time out to tie the game at 53. Up by one with 2 minutes left, he took a pass from Meech at near the top of the key, made a nice spin move around the defender, saw Meech and fed him with an easy layup to get it to 58-55. Then a similar play, with 1:20 left and only up 58-57, he made a nice pass to Sacre for a nice soft hook shot to seal the game.

Coach goes to him, when they need a score.

jazzdelmar
02-07-2010, 05:40 AM
Harris had an off offensive game, but he was a major factor down the stretch. He made a nice post move and the put in right after the time out to tie the game at 53. Up by one with 2 minutes left, he took a pass from Meech at near the top of the key, made a nice spin move around the defender, saw Meech and fed him with an easy layup to get it to 58-55. Then a similar play, with 1:20 left and only up 58-57, he made a nice pass to Sacre for a nice soft hook shot to seal the game.

Coach goes to him, when they need a score.


phil...nice post, now go shovel some snow :D

SunDevilGolfZag
02-07-2010, 05:57 AM
harris was awful, worst as a Zag... a blessing......selfish, I know....he blows up for 25/15 tdy he is GONE...maybe the biggest plus of the game

He was cold offensively and got a little frustrated, but the real "blessing" to me was his five assists. The one to Meech near the end was huge.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-07-2010, 06:26 AM
Thanks Bronco
I read all the posts tonight, not wanting to repeat anybody
and you opined exactly what I was thinking

memphis was gunning for Harris, willing to foul him to death if necessary, and Harris's reaction was to make more assists, and Few adjusted by feeding Sacre and Will more because Harris was double and triple teamed all game long

This makes Harris one of the top contributors to the win, and not really, in my book, having an 'off night'

Will Foster owes Harris a beer for drawing the defenses and allowing Will to pick up a career high scoring night against a very good defensive team.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-07-2010, 06:27 AM
Will Foster owes Harris a beer for drawing the defenses and allowing Will to pick up a career high scoring night against a very good defensive team.

Not that I'm encouraging underaged drinking, but if Will stops by the Harris chateau in Germany, Will can buy Harris a beer and they can both enjoy it legally.

ZagMan in Philly
02-07-2010, 06:27 AM
phil...nice post, now go shovel some snow :D

Jazz, i am going to invest in a snowblower this summer. 24 inches of snow is a nightmare even with a snowblower.

so bad around here, St.Joes had to postpone their game yesterday.
so Jazz, what do you think of DG's play yesterday?

jazzdelmar
02-07-2010, 06:51 AM
he was ok, a contributor not a detractor...like someone here said, hes not a pt guard who makes others better, rather a tough, d-oriented role player....lets hope few brings a true one in for nxt year....i find odd that more often than not he doesnt even bring the ball up these days, deferring to matt.....its still 4 vs 5 a lot in terms of looking to shoot and 3 vs 5 when kelly is in.......

kitzbuel
02-07-2010, 06:53 AM
I think it was a blessing in that the rest of this young team sees that they CAN win with Harris not chipping in a double-double each game. Great confidence builder for the rest of the squad!

+1


You add this to the near comeback against Wake Forest and this team is learning it can still win without Elias. And this is a good thing for Elias.

We saw yesterday that Foster was the direct beneficiary of Memphis' attention to Elias. The staff is teaching the team how to make other teams pay for double-teaming and shutting down Harris by working plays specifically for other players.

Yesterday's game complicated game planning for all upcoming Zag opponents. Who do they focus on defensively now? Harris? Sacre? Bouldin? At what cost? The Zags are starting to develop enough other creditable threats that opponents have to respect the likes of Foster, Meech, Arop and Gibbs. There aren't any players you really can afford to sag off of any more.

kitzbuel
02-07-2010, 06:55 AM
Jazz, i am going to invest in a snowblower this summer. 24 inches of snow is a nightmare even with a snowblower.



+26 (inches that is!)

bartruff1
02-07-2010, 06:56 AM
I can't believe that the Memphis game will have any significant effect on Harris's decision or on the NBA's assesment of him....this is one game and I would be amazed if the teams that spend millions of dollars and hundreds if not thousands of hours scouting a player will make any decision on the basis of this game or for that matter how far Gonzaga goes in March.

alaskazagnut
02-07-2010, 07:37 AM
I would not call his game aweful, but it was very nice to win a game without him. Elias, you are loved but stay a couple of more years!

This was the smartest post since the invention of the fence post, the post office, and the lamp post. I am serious, because the last time we didn't have Harris, we lost both the game and our confidence.

jazzdelmar
02-07-2010, 08:51 AM
I can't believe that the Memphis game will have any significant effect on Harris's decision or on the NBA's assesment of him....this is one game and I would be amazed if the teams that spend millions of dollars and hundreds if not thousands of hours scouting a player will make any decision on the basis of this game or for that matter how far Gonzaga goes in March.


riiight...the nba never misses on draftees....never buys the hype......btw, i dont see darren daye's name much in boxscores.....team is 2nd worst in east

bartruff1
02-07-2010, 10:29 AM
riiight...the nba never misses on draftees....never buys the hype......btw, i dont see darren daye's name much in boxscores.....team is 2nd worst in east...goodness...get a grip..

Birddog
02-07-2010, 11:47 AM
Yesterday you saw why Harris will never be a "4" in the NBA. He must develop the skills of a "2" or "3" to make it.

U Zig, I Zag
02-07-2010, 01:35 PM
he was ok, a contributor not a detractor...like someone here said, hes not a pt guard who makes others better, rather a tough, d-oriented role player....lets hope few brings a true one in for nxt year....i find odd that more often than not he doesnt even bring the ball up these days, deferring to matt.....its still 4 vs 5 a lot in terms of looking to shoot and 3 vs 5 when kelly is in.......

What do you think of GJ? I know when he was playing earlier this year he got a little shot happy, but from what I can see he has the skillset to be a true PG. On thursday he looked solid with his handles and speed and unlike Meech his head is up - his pass to Foster against Portland was a zinger.

Maybe he is leaving?? He can't be happy with his playing time...

john montana
02-07-2010, 01:43 PM
The only thing I don't like about GJ was summed up in garbage time against Portland. He ran a pick and roll with Foster and unlike Bouldin (or Gibbs) who would have immediately hit Will with a pass for the dunk, GJ REALLY wanted to shoot it. To be fair, he did make the pass, but it was a few beats late and the help almost got there. While the cardinal rule is you can't judge intent, it certainly seemed clear to me that GJ wanted first, second, and third to clear that hedge and go to the rim...his 4th option was the dump down to Foster.

He's young, fast, and has great ball skills. He will be a great player, but doesn't fit the role we need him in right now. He seems to want to be a scorer first.

jazzdelmar
02-07-2010, 02:15 PM
The only thing I don't like about GJ was summed up in garbage time against Portland. He ran a pick and roll with Foster and unlike Bouldin (or Gibbs) who would have immediately hit Will with a pass for the dunk, GJ REALLY wanted to shoot it. To be fair, he did make the pass, but it was a few beats late and the help almost got there. While the cardinal rule is you can't judge intent, it certainly seemed clear to me that GJ wanted first, second, and third to clear that hedge and go to the rim...his 4th option was the dump down to Foster.

He's young, fast, and has great ball skills. He will be a great player, but doesn't fit the role we need him in right now. He seems to want to be a scorer first.


+1....great point (as it were), JM.....dont see him fitting in w the emphasis on bigs in the program....hopefully Few can bring in a JC PG who can start right away....

U Zig, I Zag
02-07-2010, 02:21 PM
riiight...the nba never misses on draftees....never buys the hype......btw, i dont see darren daye's name much in boxscores.....team is 2nd worst in east

They both playing? Father and son? :)

U Zig, I Zag
02-07-2010, 02:29 PM
The only thing I don't like about GJ was summed up in garbage time against Portland. He ran a pick and roll with Foster and unlike Bouldin (or Gibbs) who would have immediately hit Will with a pass for the dunk, GJ REALLY wanted to shoot it. To be fair, he did make the pass, but it was a few beats late and the help almost got there. While the cardinal rule is you can't judge intent, it certainly seemed clear to me that GJ wanted first, second, and third to clear that hedge and go to the rim...his 4th option was the dump down to Foster.

He's young, fast, and has great ball skills. He will be a great player, but doesn't fit the role we need him in right now. He seems to want to be a scorer first.

I will respectfully disagree with your assement on that particular play. I was at the game underneath the basket on the opposite end. GJ whipped that pass when there wasn't much line of site and when Will was ready.

I wonder if given more PT he would carry the distributor role better. We don't need that now, we get along with Meech in there NOT distributing the ball in the conventional PG manner, but next year we are gonna need some playmakers and guys that can dish the ball. In what little I have seen of GJ he seems more apt at that then Meech. Having a PG that can score from the arc wouldn't hurt us one bit.

I think next year we see Meech in there with GG at times and other situations were GJ plays the 2 (with Meech) as more of a drive and dish/scoring threat. Situations where we play on the ball the whole way up the court on D. Take advantage of the two mini-me rockets we got.

gamagin
02-07-2010, 02:34 PM
he was ok, a contributor not a detractor...like someone here said, hes not a pt guard who makes others better, rather a tough, d-oriented role player....lets hope few brings a true one in for nxt year....i find odd that more often than not he doesnt even bring the ball up these days, deferring to matt.....its still 4 vs 5 a lot in terms of looking to shoot and 3 vs 5 when kelly is in.......


Meech could have been yesterday's mvp. GUnit of the game, too, for his overall play, imo. He was really playing heads up and with just enough impact (and yes, a few overplays) to keep Memphis honest on defense and uncomfortable on offense.

They had to play him. They couldn't double up and ignore him. He wouldn't let them. He'd drive for a layin. and he did.

as for replacing him, well, that spot is and will remain open to anyone who can take it. But I believe I saw the beginning of a new era of savvy to go along with the hustle and energy he brings to our game. And, wonder of wonders, he also seems to be able to bring it most in big games. Plus he's just getting started.

In other words, for the first time in quite a while, I think Meech is back, on the road to the next level --- up, instead of backwards.

And Foster, well, I think he should consider changing his name to Lazerus.

Stuff happens in college basketball. And some great stuff happend for us Saturday in Memphis.

GO TEAM Zags !

dim4sum
02-07-2010, 03:11 PM
That's a relief. Both he and his former coach in Germany think he needs more seasoning. Let's see if he keeps his word. Next season with Bouldin gone, someone will have to step up as a leader and my vote is for Elias. It could be Steven, but he would have to develop rock solid consistency to his game, which so far he hasn't.

john montana
02-07-2010, 05:51 PM
I was at the Portland game as well and I saw clear hesitation. It could have been hesitation while waiting for a passing lane but I have seen nothing in GJ's game up to this point in the season to make me believe that is the case. Granted, it could just be the former gunner in me looking for kinship! GJ just strikes me as a score first (and second) guard at this point in his career. Absolutely nothing wrong with that but if asked why he doesn't see the court that much I know my answer. Do I think he has a future with the program? Heck yes, it just isn't his time right now. GJhas jets and will get better and better and could be a big cog down the road. Truthfully, he would have a perfect runnin mate his senior year in grant Gibbs. It will be a fun ride!

U Zig, I Zag
02-07-2010, 08:22 PM
I was at the Portland game as well and I saw clear hesitation. It could have been hesitation while waiting for a passing lane but I have seen nothing in GJ's game up to this point in the season to make me believe that is the case. Granted, it could just be the former gunner in me looking for kinship! GJ just strikes me as a score first (and second) guard at this point in his career. Absolutely nothing wrong with that but if asked why he doesn't see the court that much I know my answer. Do I think he has a future with the program? Heck yes, it just isn't his time right now. GJhas jets and will get better and better and could be a big cog down the road. Truthfully, he would have a perfect runnin mate his senior year in grant Gibbs. It will be a fun ride!

I see GG and GJ playing well together. I think the rotation has stabilized recently and that has GJ out of the loop and GG in (if only a bit more). I just hope they both either get the idea that their time will come and/or are satisified (if not content) with what is going on now. When all you want to do is play, it is probably hard to sit and watch...

titopoet
02-08-2010, 07:19 AM
That's a relief. Both he and his former coach in Germany think he needs more seasoning. Let's see if he keeps his word. Next season with Bouldin gone, someone will have to step up as a leader and my vote is for Elias. It could be Steven, but he would have to develop rock solid consistency to his game, which so far he hasn't.

Harris also looks like he has his head on straight. He wants to become a better player, and that is his goal. I think he will look to play on the German national team this summer, which means he would not have time to play in the predraft leagues. He seems to like the coaching he is receiving from Mark and staff.

All and All, he and GU have gained so much from his coming. He moved up in the minds of NBA scouts. He will be a star at the next level. GU will gain by being seen by Europeans as a good play to raise their NBA stock. If the NCAA changes their eligibility rules, which looks like will happen, the Zags are in position to get some amazing talent.

cjm720
03-09-2010, 03:15 PM
harris was awful, worst as a Zag... a blessing......selfish, I know....he blows up for 25/15 tdy he is GONE...maybe the biggest plus of the game

Jazz, here's your answer re: Harris. YOU JINXED HIM!!!

A big time noticeable drop in stats...Thanks a lot :D

jazzdelmar
03-09-2010, 03:37 PM
Jazz, here's your answer re: Harris. YOU JINXED HIM!!!

A big time noticeable drop in stats...Thanks a lot :D



ok, its on me, all of it..........:roll: