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View Full Version : Where was Olynyk?



kclubfounder
01-31-2010, 10:09 AM
Did Few decide last week that Olynyk would play on Thursday and Gibbs on Saturday? And no matter what happened during the course of the game he was going to stick with it?

In my opinion, Olynyk is much more deserving of minutes down the stretch of a tough ballgame. Yet Gibbs played the whole time while Olynyk was cheering from the bench.

thespywhozaggedme
01-31-2010, 10:31 AM
I was wondering the same thing, but refrained from asking for fear of being labeled as a malcontent.

roxdoc
01-31-2010, 10:33 AM
Olynyk doesn't play point guard

1973Zag
01-31-2010, 10:41 AM
like many last night,KO seemed to be having a tough time when he did play. GG seems to be coaches security blanket newbie when we are struggling

HillBillyZag
01-31-2010, 10:43 AM
Why don't you young dudes just let the Coaches Coach?

gamagin
01-31-2010, 11:04 AM
like many last night,KO seemed to be having a tough time when he did play. GG seems to be coaches security blanket newbie when we are struggling

beginning to understand.

When a Zag is called in to perform, he's expected to step in, step up and play. Like a pinch-hitter, the time is now when the call is made.

Absent results within a very short period of time, perhaps a shot or two, he may be replaced. It's the nature of the game.

And those who need to warm up for several minutes when they should be performing, clearly, are not ready and their p.t. is cut short, sometimes right after one play or two, and the next in-line is drafted.

That's what happened, imo, with KO. He was game but we needed more immediately, so GG was enlisted, a shift was made and the game continued.

If I could wave a wand, I would have waved it and tried to return the ball to RS for more slams (+ 1) instead of trying to beat USF from the perimeter. It was working really well underneath and not at all, or hardly at all, from long distance, for us. And everyone got to try, including KO.

Go TEAM Zags !

kclubfounder
01-31-2010, 11:41 AM
I knew someone would point out that they don't play the same position. It just almost seemed like Few made a pre-game decision that Gibbs was going to get a ton of playing time in this game, come Hell or high water.

Meanwhile, Kelly played a grand total of 4 minutes. It is a little hard to determine that this just "wasn't his night" unless that decision was also made before the game started.

fedwayzag
01-31-2010, 11:53 AM
Not sure I get this post. Few went through KO, Manny and Bol before settling on GG. All Gibbs did was score 8 pts and get 2 off and 2 def rebounds in his 17 minutes. Hit a big three which really helped. Again, in my mind Few got the right person in the game. He really has had a knack for finding the right guy to pull the team through.

john montana
01-31-2010, 12:20 PM
Had we won the game, everyone would be touting what a smart decision few made to stick with Gibbs. It was pretty clear during the course of the game that Gibbs was helping. Manny got two quick fouls, Bol couldn't hit a shot, and KO was overmatched physically inside (the USF bigs were strong!). Nice that Few has so many options on the bench, and he found the one that produced last night in Gibbs.

If SG throws that ball high into the air instead of right to Lowhorn (not faulting SG, tough break) we all talk about what great coaching by Few last night instead of lamenting Grant's minutes.

A fine game by GG.

ronh_pm
01-31-2010, 01:19 PM
Had we won the game, everyone would be touting what a smart decision few made to stick with Gibbs. It was pretty clear during the course of the game that Gibbs was helping. Manny got two quick fouls, Bol couldn't hit a shot, and KO was overmatched physically inside (the USF bigs were strong!). Nice that Few has so many options on the bench, and he found the one that produced last night in Gibbs.

If SG throws that ball high into the air instead of right to Lowhorn (not faulting SG, tough break) we all talk about what great coaching by Few last night instead of lamenting Grant's minutes.

A fine game by GG.

If the Zags win by 3 over SF, we are talking about "great coaching"? Your kidding right? You mention Bol not hitting a shot (0-2 in 8 mins) but fail to mention Gray going 2-13 in 40 minutes?

When what you have on the floor cannot pull away from SF, you have to change it up somehow. But Meech finally starts hitting some shots (4-5 in 22 mins) and is rewarded with the pine? I'm not going to begrudge Gibbs his minutes. He made the most of them and played well enough but is that the change you make?

Bouldin and Gray were tired. Dead tired. They were not being effective and needed a rest. Bol, Manny and Kelly combined for 22 minutes. Gray and Bouldin combined for 81. I dont care if it's Meech or Gibbs out there but get Gray and Matt some rest.

Only once in the past 5 games have either of them logged under 30 mins. They are getting beat on night after night and it caught up last night. In a 45 minute game we had six players in double digit minutes. What happened to the bench as being a strength of this team?

He (Few) may have found an option that produced, albeit the same as Meech, but he have missed an option that did not produce.

billyberu
01-31-2010, 01:37 PM
Olynyk doesn't play point guard

Neither does Gibbs.

gamagin
01-31-2010, 02:04 PM
Bouldin and Gray were tired. Dead tired. They were not being effective and needed a rest. Bol, Manny and Kelly combined for 22 minutes. Gray and Bouldin combined for 81. I dont care if it's Meech or Gibbs out there but get Gray and Matt some rest.

Only once in the past 5 games have either of them logged under 30 mins. They are getting beat on night after night and it caught up last night. In a 45 minute game we had six players in double digit minutes. What happened to the bench as being a strength of this team?

He (Few) may have found an option that produced, albeit the same as Meech, but he have missed an option that did not produce.

do you have any proof that Gray & Matt are and were dead tired. I know Xin thinks so, too. No one, however, has mentioned it, who is close to the program. I don't think they look tired, but I'm not an expert.

I don't think you are, either. so when you speculate as to these guy's health, it seems only fair you'd provide a link so we can all better understand. For example, if I were to select a player whom I think would be beat and beat up, it would be EH, who has been and been treated, like a human jackhammer even more than MB or SG, who have certainly gotten as well as given, several lumps.

So, where's the proof ? Thanks,

Baldwinzag
01-31-2010, 02:09 PM
Could Gray & Bouldin being suffering nagging injuries? Quite possibly.

Could Gray & Bouldin be dead tired and suffering from mental/phsyical fatigue? Highly doubt it.

They'll be just fine and I assure you that each of them get more than enough rest between games. Trust me, they live for this kind of PT.

ronh_pm
01-31-2010, 04:19 PM
do you have any proof that Gray & Matt are and were dead tired. I know Xin thinks so, too. No one, however, has mentioned it, who is close to the program. I don't think they look tired, but I'm not an expert.

I don't think you are, either. so when you speculate as to these guy's health, it seems only fair you'd provide a link so we can all better understand. For example, if I were to select a player whom I think would be beat and beat up, it would be EH, who has been and been treated, like a human jackhammer even more than MB or SG, who have certainly gotten as well as given, several lumps.

So, where's the proof ? Thanks,

I didn't say a word about thier health. Why bring up something that was not said? Health has nothing to do with being tired. When I am tired I dont go see a doctor, I have a nap. All I talked about was fatigue so please dont put words in my mouth.

Of the last 85 mins of game time, over two nights, Matt was on the floor for 81 minutes and Steven for 79. I did not look at Harris's numbers.

The past week.

Matt.... 37,39,40,41 (157/165)
Gray.... 38,26,39,40 (143/165)

Their shooting over the same games

Matt.....10-16, 6-12, 5-10, 6-13
Gray.......8-15, 6-11, 8-16, 2-13

The Zags had six players in double digit minutes yesterday, SF had nine. Lowhorn played 31. SF's top minute guy had 36. The Zags had three in the 40's.


And the bottom line, getting back to Olynyk and minutes, which is what I was addressing, is when a guy is throwing up bricks as Steven tends to do every so often, and you are in a dogfight at someone else's kennel, someone who wants to beat you worse than they want to beat anyone else the entire year, you better have a plan B if your plan A is not working.

If it was not fatigue then there is even more reason Olynyk, Kong and Arop should have seen more minutes as he was just playing poorly last night.

Just saying.

77Zag
01-31-2010, 04:34 PM
Why don't you young dudes just let the Coaches Coach?

Amen!

john montana
01-31-2010, 04:44 PM
I'm a huge believer in KO, but can't say he should have seen more minutes last night. Our most effective bigs were EH and Sacre...and then no one. As for guards, Gibbs outplayed Bol, and Manny. So he got more minutes. Makes sense to me. I thought Few patiently tried various line ups and found one with Gibbs that got us a lead (and then promptly lost the lead). The reality is that while we have a lot of options, most of them are freshmen, and inconsistent. At least we don't have to stick with a guy that is having an off night, we can try someone else (and Few does).

As for Bouldin and Grey...ideally they would get more rest, but we need them both on the floor. Grey does a LOT more than hit (or miss) shots. You cannot state his impact on a basketball game by looking at his shooting percentage.

I hope KO gets a ton more minutes the rest of the season. I think he'll be a beast for us when he gets stronger.

alaskazagnut
01-31-2010, 05:10 PM
I was wondering the same thing, but refrained from asking for fear of being labeled as a malcontent.

It is silly that some have to feel this way. Some here, especially noobs want to be the ultimate cheerleader like they are scared that someone from the team will read what they say and go cry. Therefore say stuff like "Just be quiet and watch, enjoy, love your Zags" I DO ALL THOSE THINGS AND WILL ALWAYS, EXCEPT BE QUIET"

If you like to discuss games and strategy you are labeled a "negaZag" or a "Hater". When we lose something went wrong or didn't work or effort was not 110%. Why not have somewhere to go where you can vent, exchange ideas (or delusions) and figure out how to win a national championship. All of us want a national championship, better recruits and educated student athletes who leave campus with a degree and a calling to responsible, healthy, more Christ-like life after college.

We can't play or even go to all the games so we must be armchair coaches. It is fun, and part of being a fan in my opinion to try and pretend that my opinion matters and that my strategy or interpretation of the coaches choices is correct. IMO, if you just want to sit back, watch and enjoy the Zags you don't need the forum to do that. ALL of us, and I mean ALL OF US, come here for Zag fellowship, gentlemanly bantering and respectful input on our opinions and ideas.

I came out and said it that night and still today. Gibbs deserved the PT. But with the game on the line, a top 10 ranking and a conference title on the line why not go with the best 5 that we have. Bouldin, Harris, Gray, Sacre and Arop/Olynyk. Few gambled and lost. But part of me says it had to be gambled and hindsight is 20/20. But with so much on the line, the best 5 was not done IMO. And that worries me at this point in the season. Not to mention the risk of crushing the kids confidence because now he has to question if he was why the Zags lost. Anyone heard of Rick Ankiel? Ask him if he was played at a critical time and the failure was hurt more than helped.

An undefeated WCC means higher national ranking, and huge bragging rights and maybe a #3 seed. Now that is in jeopardy. But those things also give us recruiting power FOR THE FUTURE too.

TO those who think Polls and rankings and RPIs don't matter? They do. Ask the scouts if they would rather have a top 10 ranking and a top 20 RPI and undefeated conference season to show the nations best high schoolers.

Then go ask yourself if giving any freshman 3 extra minutes is worth all that. Hindsight is 20/20 so I don't blame Few for gambling, but he lost. Lets learn from that and don't do it again. I want a national championship. We DESERVE it!!!:D

CDC84
01-31-2010, 05:21 PM
According to Coach Rice after the game, the problem with the bench is there is just too much inconsistency. One guy plays well on Thursday night, and within 3 minutes of entering Saturday's game, the same player has two fouls, 2 missed shots, and has missed 2 assignments on defense. Then someone else goes in, and they do the job, but that player goes south the following week, etc.

I don't know....at what point do you just let guys like Kelly and Manny play through their mistakes? They can't establish consistency if they aren't seeing consistent PT each and every game.

gamagin
01-31-2010, 06:44 PM
To me "dead tired" & playing in D1 games is a health matter.

But I should have been more clear. I should have said anyone fighting fatigue is injury prone and that could affect his health. Sorry about that.

However, it seems clear you are just guessing about the "dead tired" aspect of these guys. and as someone else said, if we hope to see the big three get more breaks, we need to build up the lead, or when it is built up, keep building.

Go TEAM Zags !

seasontixholder
01-31-2010, 07:17 PM
Gibbs was in late for the same reason JP Batista was in the backcourt in the waning seconds against UCLA: the gamble that a better free-throw % would overcome any risk of the downside of the action.

In both cases, GU got burned. GG, bless his heart, was asked to be a defensive stopper when stops were just as critical as potential free-throws. Two plays stick out: the stumbling fall trying to keep up with a more athletic shooter that led to two easy points; and his unlikely role as our goalie that led to a layin when the press was foiled, and his relative lack of athleticism caused him to fail to sell the ref on a foul that he was supposed to give in that circumstance.

I ranted at the TV for about 3 clock minutes begging the coach to take him out at that critical juncture. If only for defensive measures, and to re-insert him on offense at the many play stoppages that materialized throughout the meltdown. With the horse already out of the barn, both Meech and Manny were put in together very late, but not after the damage was done. Asking a player to play to his weaknesses and hoping for the best that the compromise will work is a part of all coaching. In this case, it came back to bite.

ronh_pm
01-31-2010, 07:24 PM
To me "dead tired" & playing in D1 games is a health matter.

But I should have been more clear. I should have said anyone fighting fatigue is injury prone and that could affect his health. Sorry about that.

However, it seems clear you are just guessing about the "dead tired" aspect of these guys. and as someone else said, if we hope to see the big three get more breaks, we need to build up the lead, or when it is built up, keep building.

Go TEAM Zags !

I think we are all just trying to justify, in our own ways, the reason for the loss.

As a wannabe coach, who is not qualified to carry Coach Few's chalkboard, armed with about 10% of the facts and situational data of the moment, I sometimes (often?) type with emotion rather than thought.

My bad.

alaskazagnut
01-31-2010, 07:25 PM
If SG throws that ball high into the air instead of right to Lowhorn (not faulting SG, tough break) we all talk about what great coaching by Few last night instead of lamenting Grant's minutes.

Does Steven get the assist for that three?

gamagin
01-31-2010, 07:32 PM
agreed. re emotions. best regards.

Go TEAM Zags !

kclubfounder
01-31-2010, 07:57 PM
Gibbs was in late for the same reason JP Batista was in the backcourt in the waning seconds against UCLA: the gamble that a better free-throw % would overcome any risk of the downside of the action.

In both cases, GU got burned. GG, bless his heart, was asked to be a defensive stopper when stops were just as critical as potential free-throws.

I think Gibbs is shooting free throws at a 40% clip so you may want to reconsider why he was playing.

And folks, stop writing that KO was having a bad game. He played FOUR FLIPPING MINUTES!!!! HELLO?????

Ezag
01-31-2010, 08:14 PM
It is silly that some have to feel this way. Some here, especially noobs want to be the ultimate cheerleader like they are scared that someone from the team will read what they say and go cry. Therefore say stuff like "Just be quiet and watch, enjoy, love your Zags" I DO ALL THOSE THINGS AND WILL ALWAYS, EXCEPT BE QUIET"

If you like to discuss games and strategy you are labeled a "negaZag" or a "Hater". When we lose something went wrong or didn't work or effort was not 110%. Why not have somewhere to go where you can vent, exchange ideas (or delusions) and figure out how to win a national championship. All of us want a national championship, better recruits and educated student athletes who leave campus with a degree and a calling to responsible, healthy, more Christ-like life after college.

We can't play or even go to all the games so we must be armchair coaches. It is fun, and part of being a fan in my opinion to try and pretend that my opinion matters and that my strategy or interpretation of the coaches choices is correct. IMO, if you just want to sit back, watch and enjoy the Zags you don't need the forum to do that. ALL of us, and I mean ALL OF US, come here for Zag fellowship, gentlemanly bantering and respectful input on our opinions and ideas.

I came out and said it that night and still today. Gibbs deserved the PT. But with the game on the line, a top 10 ranking and a conference title on the line why not go with the best 5 that we have. Bouldin, Harris, Gray, Sacre and Arop/Olynyk. Few gambled and lost. But part of me says it had to be gambled and hindsight is 20/20. But with so much on the line, the best 5 was not done IMO. And that worries me at this point in the season. Not to mention the risk of crushing the kids confidence because now he has to question if he was why the Zags lost. Anyone heard of Rick Ankiel? Ask him if he was played at a critical time and the failure was hurt more than helped.

An undefeated WCC means higher national ranking, and huge bragging rights and maybe a #3 seed. Now that is in jeopardy. But those things also give us recruiting power FOR THE FUTURE too.

TO those who think Polls and rankings and RPIs don't matter? They do. Ask the scouts if they would rather have a top 10 ranking and a top 20 RPI and undefeated conference season to show the nations best high schoolers.

Then go ask yourself if giving any freshman 3 extra minutes is worth all that. Hindsight is 20/20 so I don't blame Few for gambling, but he lost. Lets learn from that and don't do it again. I want a national championship. We DESERVE it!!!:D

Well stated! As for malcontent or not, I don't give a sh** most the time. I say what I feel and don't base it on whether I think I might hurt someone's feelings about a particular issue. This is a &*$#$@ message board where opinions, ideas, praise AND criticisms should be exercised freely and free from being labeled a hater. People take this Sh** way too seriously. By the way, compared to most major forums, this place is tame!

Horned Frog
01-31-2010, 10:01 PM
In both cases, GU got burned. GG, bless his heart, was asked to be a defensive stopper when stops were just as critical as potential free-throws. Two plays stick out: the stumbling fall trying to keep up with a more athletic shooter that led to two easy points; and his unlikely role as our goalie that led to a layin when the press was foiled, and his relative lack of athleticism caused him to fail to sell the ref on a foul that he was supposed to give in that circumstance.

I respectively don't agree.
I believe GG was asked to go in and control the ball. We didn't need Meech pushing the ball up the court quickly and possibly turn the ball over in those final minutes. GG took pressure off Matt controlling the ball as much, as he was tired.

And I believe the ref didn't call the obvious foul when playing "goalie" (good description) because WCC refs are horrible. Has nothing to do with "athleticism failing to sell the ref."

Zag79
02-01-2010, 12:03 AM
Why don't you young dudes just let the Coaches Coach?

we do. and then talk about it on a board made for talking about things just like that. and while im here, why not add my two cents. coaching is huge, and few isnt always right. no coach is, so those of you who act like every loss is the players fault... your dead wrong. you really blame DIFFERENT kids every year, for allowing teams to hit more threes on us than they can dream about? or that we never get a good shot at the end of a half or game? sure we have won some, but even then the player was in total control. (meech last year, ammo in BIS, etc.) i laughed last year when some would always complain about pargos "lack" of getting us a good shot at half. hmm, bouldin is the same if not worse this year. is it them? really? i would sit someone if they messed up that bad time and time again. or rob and meech are killing SF and we have a 10 point lead, then they sit and we go away from whats working only to end up losing in overtime. i wouldnt want another coach, few is the guy at gonzaga for me. but its not the players fault, everytime, for everything. be realistic.