PDA

View Full Version : I hate this league



FuManShoes
01-30-2010, 08:54 PM
Yes, hats off to Dons if they pull this out but WCC refs suck. They just do.

HOOTER
01-30-2010, 09:04 PM
I can't disagree with you there.

Ekrub
01-30-2010, 09:10 PM
Despicable. I don't like to play the "blame the refs" game but that was just absolutely horrible tonight. Elias's travel underneath USF basket, the missed foul by gibbs, the missed foul on bouldin (and I think heister was right with that one) all crucial down the stretch. I think Mark Few needs to say something because that was ridiculous.

SWZag
01-30-2010, 09:10 PM
There were some interesting calls/no calls, but this is the game:

Free Throws 22-33, 66%

11 points left on the table.

SWZag

DixieZag
01-30-2010, 09:12 PM
We can blame the refs all night long, and why not, they deserve it. But that doesn't change the fact that our team worked hard to get this lose. They didn't play D, they played a disinterested comfortable first half, and were actually winning, then USF sees that they can actually win the game by accident, and we don't have the offensive or defense to stop it.

We have been playing russian roulette for a couple of weeks now, we knew we were not the 8 best team in the country. Now they outta get to work at being a top 20 team.

There is NO EXCUSE for losing this game.

btzag
01-30-2010, 09:13 PM
Yeah about 10 big calls in a row went the Dons way down the stretch. The Zags know this though. You must completely outplay the other team so that the refs cannot swing the game over to the opponent. They did not do that tonight and the lucky bounce or save by Gray goes straight to Lowhorn and there you go.

It would be interesting to me if a team like St. Mary's could get to the point where opponents play all out for them as well as the Zags. Just curious because USF could get their a** handed to them by St. Mary's and UP and not really care but then they play like their lives depend on it against the Zags. Gotta wonder what their record would be if they played that hard every night? Maybe they should try it.

gamagin
01-30-2010, 09:14 PM
they played really well. The made the CRITICAL shots when they needed them.

Bad luck dogged us. SG's great save went straight back to Lowhorn, but he canned the shot.

This won't hurt us overall. maybe in the MYTHICAL Poll. But who cares ?

It's a good lesson in playing every second. We need to jump all over our opponents and not build up their self esteem, imo. We need to start out and remain at the tempo we managed at the end of each game to make a comeback.

that way, we don't need a comeback. We don't let the other side in.

On the good news side, RS and Meech just may have shaken their funks. It sure looked like it most of the time.

So, the pressure to go undefeated is off. It seemed like it had to happen. Might as well be USF. Now, sweep the rest.

Go TEAM Zags !

GUDan07
01-30-2010, 09:16 PM
There is NO EXCUSE for losing this game.

+1

U Zig, I Zag
01-30-2010, 09:17 PM
This has to be a wake-up call, not to the players only - but to the program. We need to come out with better intensity.

A huge negative though is that so and so loses to so and so on the road but GU loses to USF and it's a big thorn in their seeding hopes. Really thing Duke is gonna be super hurt by the Georgetown loss? not really - would GU have played better on the road at GU then they did against USF?

Y O U B E T Y O U R A S S

that's the problem.

NYCZAG
01-30-2010, 09:18 PM
I will disagree with you this loss does hurt this team-You can say mythical poll but come tourney time when a team doesn't get any love to begin with they will say two bad losses-DUKE-SAN FRAN-Guess what Duke is top ten all year San Fran is one step about AAU summer league team-This is an awful loss and it looks awful-I don't care about the WCC-I am just cringing because another loss like this and hello eight nine game and one and done-

whatazag
01-30-2010, 09:18 PM
Gotta say I didn't think this one was on the Refs at all. All on the Zags, just didn't get it done. For those that were trying to argue the Zags were top 10, this should have convinced them otherwise. Hopefully we see a lot of development between now and March.

cscz28
01-30-2010, 09:18 PM
If you can think of one instance in the history of the game where someone thought the refs called a good game I might lend more credence to blaming the refs for calling a bad one, but I doubt you can. The Zags didn't play well, the Dons aka dior made big shots, move on to the next game.

seasontixholder
01-30-2010, 09:19 PM
This league isn't any different from any other league re: refereeing. The best refs are usually sent to games involving better teams playing each other, while expected lopsided matches get the dregs. Motivated, organized teams play excited enough to never let the officials make a few bad calls down the stretch affect the outcome.

In this game:

1. Matt didn't/couldn't show up early enough.
2. Few's defensive lineups late - when stops and rebounds were absolutely critical - were pitiful.

surfmonkey89
01-30-2010, 09:19 PM
We win 26 straight games and when we lose a road game it's a wake up call to the program?

You people need to get a grip.

kitzbuel
01-30-2010, 09:19 PM
You don't see a lot of players have games like Lowhorn did tonight. He was phenomenal.

CDC84
01-30-2010, 09:21 PM
The reason for this loss wasn't the free throws or the missed calls....it was allowing a bad team to shoot 48% from the field. Gonzaga's offense also had its worse field goal percentage since the Duke disaster.

If you can't shoot better against a team like USF, and if you can't defend against a team like USF, well, you deserve to lose.

beatsc
01-30-2010, 09:22 PM
I suggest you check out a Saint Mary's / Santa Clara game some time. They are wars.

Your comment is weak.

No one likes to lose in this conference.....especially home games. And Gonzaga isn't the only team opponents get fired up about.





It would be interesting to me if a team like St. Mary's could get to the point where opponents play all out for them as well as the Zags. Just curious because USF could get their a** handed to them by St. Mary's and UP and not really care but then they play like their lives depend on it against the Zags. Gotta wonder what their record would be if they played that hard every night? Maybe they should try it.[/QUOTE]

krozman
01-30-2010, 09:24 PM
You can micromanage the blame all you want, but the fact remains that Gonzaga's players are HUMAN! This loss hurts in every way, but we're going to move on because we have to. Hats off to USF.

U Zig, I Zag
01-30-2010, 09:25 PM
We win 26 straight games and when we lose a road game it's a wake up call to the program?

You people need to get a grip.

I think so. Nothing wrong with a splash of cold water in the face. All the league games are tough, no doubt - but I wouldn't want to be in the locker room right now.

What a rollercoaster.... ;)

GUDan07
01-30-2010, 09:26 PM
We win 26 straight games and when we lose a road game it's a wake up call to the program?

You people need to get a grip.

They just lost to a 7-14 team. The only way that happens is through lack of effort. They were completely lackadaisical and in need of a wake up call.

gamagin
01-30-2010, 09:31 PM
I suggest you check out a Saint Mary's / Santa Clara game some time. They are wars. Your comment is weak.
No one likes to lose in this conference.....especially home games. And Gonzaga isn't the only team opponents get fired up about. It would be interesting to me if a team like St. Mary's could get to the point where opponents play all out for them as well as the Zags. Just curious because USF could get their a** handed to them by St. Mary's and UP and not really care but then they play like their lives depend on it against the Zags. Gotta wonder what their record would be if they played that hard every night? Maybe they should try it.[/QUOTE]

these guys just knocked off #8. They played harder than we did @ several critical moments and they got it. Fwiw, it's always been a mystery to me how hard our opponents come after us and then get beaten by another team we creamed.

I think it has to do with the senior leadership trying to salvage their season, or their careers in the WCC when they meet up with us, and manage a W. It's a pride thing.

And to us, too often, it's just a game. And when someone is playing with his hair on fire, sometimes, it's difficult to get that pumped, certainly every game. Yet that seems to be our challenge fairly often.

Go TEAM Zags !

U Zig, I Zag
01-30-2010, 09:34 PM
One more thing to the people that think everyone is hard on the team or whatever...

If you care as much as most of us do about the program you are going to love the heck out of them and be mad as heck when they lose.

Doesn't mean we don't believe.

I wouldn't want to be Portland right now. You got shook up Zags, shake it off and run the table. Make Memphis wish the sanctions were coming sooner...

530ZAG
01-30-2010, 09:54 PM
They just lost to a 7-14 team. The only way that happens is through lack of effort. They were completely lackadaisical and in need of a wake up call.

Totally agree, Dan. If each and every player can't get up for a conference game, the better check their pulse.

Hopefully they come out with something to prove and take it out on Portland.

jim77
01-30-2010, 10:29 PM
Portland and ST Mary's are smelling blood about right now. (Memphis too) GU was nearly beaten twice by bottom dwellers in the WCC. Not only is the conference title still up for grabs....so is an NCAA bid. Yes, I said NCAA bid cause the way they are playing could lead to 3 or 4 MORE losses.....TIME TO BRING IT ZAGS! Keep passing, Keep moving.

JohnOGU
01-30-2010, 10:44 PM
So disappointed in this loss. I'm so tired of seeing a timid team. Elias is the only player that plays like a man on a mission. He plays with so much heart. Refs are going to have an impact, and yes you're going to lose on here and there, and yes we're relatively young. BUT, the bottom line is that we are flat out better than all of these teams. Pull your heads out of your a**es and play. This is Gonzaga. We recruited you for a reason...show us why.

zagfan08
01-30-2010, 10:46 PM
Okay let's be real, we're going to be in the NCAA tournament lol. But, we may have just lost the inside track to that critical 3 seed. So that sucks big time.

Big week coming up, no doubt we'll be focused after this embarrassing loss (and road trip really).

FuManShoes
01-30-2010, 11:32 PM
I didn't mean to suggest the Zags deserved this one and were robbed. Clearly they did not. All I was asking was, how much Bush League officiating do we hoops fans in the West have to endure? It isn't just the WCC, because these clowns also ref in the Pac-10, and they suck there too. Heister and Ehlo don't look smart often, but they were right to be baffled by the calls, non-calls and clock mismanagent issues. And it seems to happen every game in this league. Amateur hour.

zagsfanforlife
01-30-2010, 11:51 PM
After every Zag loss its a guarentee someone will put blame on the officiating. Talent wise, USF has no business even coming close to the Zags to the point where the officiating even matters. Inexcusable, so stop blaming the refs.

GUDan07
01-30-2010, 11:59 PM
After every Zag loss its a guarentee someone will put blame on the officiating. Talent wise, USF has no business even coming close to the Zags to the point where the officiating even matters. Inexcusable, so stop blaming the refs.

Exactly.

FuManShoes
01-31-2010, 12:01 AM
After every Zag loss its a guarentee someone will put blame on the officiating. Talent wise, USF has no business even coming close to the Zags to the point where the officiating even matters. Inexcusable, so stop blaming the refs.

I really wish folks would stop misinterpreting or misrepresenting this line of criticism. The performance of the refs tonight was disgraceful to both teams and both sets of fans. It's not an excuse for losing. I'm not "blaming" the refs for the Zags' lack of motivation and execution. But to willfully ignore calls and invent heinous makeup calls and otherwise botch the one job you have as a ref is what it is. Players and fans deserve better, is all I'm saying.

JPtheBeasta
01-31-2010, 12:13 AM
My intent wasn't to claim the Zags deserved this one. Clearly they did not. All I was asking was, how much Bush League officiating do we hoops fans in the West have to endure? It isn't just the WCC, because these clowns also ref in the Pac-10, and they suck there too. Heister and Ehlo don't look smart often, but they were right to be baffled by the calls, non-calls and clock mismanagent issues. Amateur hour.

The one I disliked the most was actually the non-call on Gibbs that led to a layup. It's the end of the game, everyone is looking for a foul, and Grant obliges them. It's not like they missed the call- you have to make a conscious effort to not call the foul. It wouldn't have necessarily changed the outcome of the game, but it was just blatantly bad, bad, bad.

I agree that the Zags didn't deserve this one. Missed free throws and career perfomances by an opposing player seem to be the norm lately, but I was shocked by the lack of effort tonight. MENE MENE TEKEL PARSIN. I think many saw something like this coming. The handwriting has been on the wall for a few games now... At least this isn't the BCS and we didn't just lose the chance at a national title game. My gut is still in up in my throat after this latest dip of the Zag roller coaster, but ours has definitely had more ups than downs and it has been an enjoyable ride so far.

JPtheBeasta
01-31-2010, 12:19 AM
I really wish folks would stop misinterpreting or misrepresenting this line of criticism. The performance of the refs tonight was disgraceful to both teams and both sets of fans. It's not an excuse for losing. I'm not "blaming" the refs for the Zags' lack of motivation and execution. But to willfully ignore calls and invent heinous makeup calls and otherwise botch the one job you have as a ref is what it is. Players and fans deserve better, is all I'm saying.

+1

MEZAG
01-31-2010, 12:48 AM
So disappointed in this loss. I'm so tired of seeing a timid team. Elias is the only player that plays like a man on a mission. He plays with so much heart. Refs are going to have an impact, and yes you're going to lose on here and there, and yes we're relatively young. BUT, the bottom line is that we are flat out better than all of these teams. Pull your heads out of your a**es and play. This is Gonzaga. We recruited you for a reason...show us why.

I would love to see you say this face to face to Matt Bouldin. Are you really big?

MickMick
01-31-2010, 12:51 AM
With respect to WCC standards, I thought the game was called well. That probably isn't saying much, but the calls in this game were definitely not the deciding factor.

USF played Gonzaga even from beginning to end. When Lowhorn made the clutch three after Gray's attempt to save a ball, the Dons siezed the moment. The game really could have gone either way (overtime). The Dons just made a couple more clutch plays down the stretch.

I thought the Dons played very well.

Ezag
01-31-2010, 12:56 AM
Normally the Dons suck, tonight they didn't and we lost. Even bad teams have great games now and then and this was their Great game

alaskazagnut
01-31-2010, 02:08 AM
One USF player was great and his 3's were timely and momentum changing. Our zone was ineffective against Lowhorn but the 16 TO's and 11 missed FT's were the real problem once again.


Normally the Dons suck, tonight they didn't and we lost. Even bad teams have great games now and then and this was their Great game

I tend to agree with that statement, but I don't think USF played THAT great and I don't think we played THAT bad. We have a trend that we don't put away teams when we can. We tend to succumb to human nature (or grand design) and we slow down and relax when we are way ahead. Not that this definitely happened because we were never that far ahead. But I feel mentally we went in there knowing we should win. Ask any Vegas bookie who should have won.

I pray we aren't falling into the classic accusations that befall undefeated NFL teams. Accusations that the staff, athletes, and fans, subconsciously (or consciously) feels that losing a game is acceptable risk enough to tinker with the lineup and experiment with plays and personnel to "prepare". Prepare for what? The future? I feel Few kinda experimented with G.G.'s role (and therefore Mannys and Kelly's) and it backfired. Why was Gibbs in there during the OT? That to me was odd and "out of left field". He barely has regular PT let alone over time PT.

I know it is farfetched:confused: , but I hope they do not feel that a loss can be a "good thing" so that the pressure is off their back and they then can plan for the post season.

Wow. I am getting long winded.

JohnOGU
01-31-2010, 02:37 AM
I would love to see you say this face to face to Matt Bouldin. Are you really big?

Dumb. Bouldin is a great player, but he needs to take a bigger leadership role on this team, Imho. Clearly players look up to him, but if i were in this shoes, i would be screaming at my teammates: "Step up or sit down."

In regards to my comment about Elias, he's the only player that i have seen get pissed off when we're down and play with a fire. The rest of the team should take notes.

gonstu
01-31-2010, 05:43 AM
I wouldn't want to be Portland right now.

I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure that after the Santa Clara game, I saw a couple posters with the message "I wouldn't want to be USF on Saturday". And I know for sure that's what I was thinking. Guess it worked out ok for the dons anyway though. just sayin'.

bigblahla
01-31-2010, 07:52 AM
The reason for this loss wasn't the free throws or the missed calls....it was allowing a bad team to shoot 48% from the field. Gonzaga's offense also had its worse field goal percentage since the Duke disaster.If you can't shoot better against a team like USF, and if you can't defend against a team like USF, well, you deserve to lose.

Bingo!

We kept the Dons on life support long enough that they revived and beat us. Yeah we played shoddy "D" and shot poorly but the Dons had something to do with it.

Congrats to the Green & Gold and Coach Walters and staff.

Go!! Zags!!!

CaZagAlum
01-31-2010, 02:30 PM
This was actually the first game this year that I was able to attend. Here are a few things I noticed:

1. There is a hesitancy that wasn't there before. Lots, not just a few Zags, are hesitant to pull the trigger when open (even under the basket, looking to pass instead). Maybe they're trying to make the extra pass, i.e. give up the good shot for a great shot, but it turns out the great shot opportunity wasn't there.

2. Spacing seems to be a real issue. I have noticed it time to time while watching games on tv, but our spacing really hurt us at times last night. Improper spacing makes finding the open man when double teamed even more difficult and it showed. It just seemed so clogged, at one point I started counting to make sure they only had five players on the floor.

3. Harris grabbed Bouldin a few times late down the stretch and told him to get him the ball (as far as my lip reading could tell). He appeared p!ssed we were losing. He was one of the first players out of the locker room and still seemed angry after the game and walked out and got on the bus. Other players seemed dejected, but stopped to sign autographs for a few kids.

4. These are young kids in a hostile environment. I really do think they feel the pressure. I watched Meech sink 7 straight free throws in warm ups; we haven't seen him do that yet during a game. PMaag was helping Manny shoot free throws for a long time and Manny was sinking them. But come game time, it was a different story.

5. Foster driving to the hoop was the most unexpected play I saw. (Even more than Gray's no look to Dior. At the point, so much had gone wrong, I half expected it.) The Zag fans there loved it.

Classy: A Dons fan and his wife came up and talked with us after the game and asked who else Gonzaga had lost games to. They said the Zags fought hard (debatable, but nice to say) and they seemed really happy and proud of their team.

Not Classy: My wife saw two Zags hit in the head/face by balls thrown by people in attendance while standing in the huddle during a timeout. (The cheerleaders had given out little 4" freebie plastic balls). This was just prior to the PA announcement of a possible technical.

JPtheBeasta
01-31-2010, 03:53 PM
Not Classy: My wife saw two Zags hit in the head/face by balls thrown by people in attendance while standing in the huddle during a timeout. (The cheerleaders had given out little 4" freebie plastic balls). This was just prior to the PA announcement of a possible technical.

When objects from the stands actually hit a player, that should be an automatic technical with no prior warning necessary- don't know the actual rule on this, just stating an opinion.

Here's another idea: With the history of that place, they should issue the warning before tip-off and just get it over with. People get on the Kennel Club for being mean spirited, or whatever, but at least they consistently show class in this regard.

zagfan08
01-31-2010, 04:00 PM
Absolutely agree, the warning should take place before tip off.

Regarding spacing, one reason it seems so congested is teams are able to sag off Meech to the point where it's hard to enter the ball into the post. I remember one possession yesterday where Demetri's defender was basically fronting Harris in the post, and as a result Meech couldn't get the ball to Elias in a spot where he could score.

Thanks for the report CaZagAlum, good stuff.

CaZagAlum
01-31-2010, 05:28 PM
I was really sad that Harris didn't throw one down, for whatever reason. When is the last time he had a game without a dunk? I was looking forward to seeing one in person.

overthehill
01-31-2010, 07:49 PM
I think most of you are wannabe's who have never worn the shoes of a player in the position of these GU ballplayers. I am not talking about "a" player but a player on a team that is looked at as one of the best in the country.
This is also a very young team and they are putting out their best under incredible preasure.You have a right to your opinions but it doesn't mean you are right, just opinionated.:vomit-smiley-007:

zagfan1
01-31-2010, 11:17 PM
I actually am most dissapointed about the free throws. We were so quick to get ourselves in the double bonus and could not capitalize. At the end of the game you have to make your shots. I am dissapointed in Steven Gray and Demtri Goodsen. Matty B and Elias are the best free throw shooters. They way we shot from the line we deserved to lose. I am having nostalgia for Derek Ravio and how many clutch moments he had at the line.

Zag79
02-01-2010, 12:30 AM
The reason for this loss wasn't the free throws or the missed calls....it was allowing a bad team to shoot 48% from the field. Gonzaga's offense also had its worse field goal percentage since the Duke disaster.

not sure i agree with this. are you saying its harder to make a ft than a 3 pointer? both are wide open in this case. bad defense aside, a 22 foot shot is much tougher to make than a free throw. one more ft and its a W. i agree both are reasons, but missing that many fts has to be ahead of a team shooing 48% from the floor.

cjm720
02-01-2010, 08:18 AM
I love this loss. We're ranked too high and need to be smacked back into reality.

The outcome certainly could have been different if we would have persued Lowhorn more when he had 4 fouls on the court. Hats off to him for making those lucky 3s.

former1dog
02-01-2010, 09:28 AM
The reason for this loss wasn't the free throws or the missed calls....it was allowing a bad team to shoot 48% from the field. Gonzaga's offense also had its worse field goal percentage since the Duke disaster.

If you can't shoot better against a team like USF, and if you can't defend against a team like USF, well, you deserve to lose.

+1

USF was better than our team on Saturday, simple as that.

As Gray said after the game, hopefully this is a wake up call after several lackluster performances in a row.