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cggonzaga
01-02-2010, 06:26 PM
Is there any question that if Harris comes back next year we will have the best frontcourt in America? Harris (potential player of the year), Rob (not many 7' as talented), KO (will shoot the rock better next year plus the fact he has a great skill set) and Dower (poor man's Harris in my opinion). Very exciting to look forward to next year even though I'm very excited about this year's possibilities.

zag67
01-02-2010, 06:37 PM
I do think that Harris will come back for 1 more year. He came to play at GU to learn many of the basics that he was missing. I think that Few and his staff have done a great job in improving on these. But there are times when he fades out by making ticky/tac fouls, tries to drive into 3 opponents, is not in a solid defensive postition, and things like this. I do believe he has all of the individual skills to go now, but he needs repetition and examples on many of the other little things that will make him great at the next level. Our coaching staff is bringing that out. Also by working with players like Casey and the rest of the summer Zags, this will prepare him to be a potentially high lottery pick the next year.

MickMick
01-02-2010, 06:38 PM
UNC and Kentucky.....just to name a couple.

cggonzaga
01-02-2010, 06:56 PM
Care to explain why Mick?

Patterson and Cousins (most likely) won't be there next year.

Thompson is a senior and Davis won't be back (again most likely).

Nobody in America can match our depth and skill in the frontcourt next year.

mgadfly
01-02-2010, 08:23 PM
Nobody in America can match our depth and skill in the frontcourt next year.

There will be new "Cousins" next season playing for other teams. For example, Ohio State returns Turner, Kecman, Lauderdale, and Sarikopoulus while ADDING Jared Sullinger (top 3 to 5 ranked player in the nation), Deshaun Thomas (top 20 HS player), and J.D. Weatherspoon to their front court. I'd imagine they'll be able to match our depth and skill (and then some) in the front court.

I love my Zags, and as a team they may be able to win a ton of games next season and make a deep run, but it won't be because nobody can match our depth and skill in the frontcourt. It will be because of a good all-around team with excellent coaching.

Ezag
01-02-2010, 08:27 PM
NO TEAM IN AMERICA Can Match Fr Hightower on the Bench!!!!!

MickMick
01-02-2010, 09:22 PM
Care to explain why Mick?

Patterson and Cousins (most likely) won't be there next year.

Thompson is a senior and Davis won't be back (again most likely).

Nobody in America can match our depth and skill in the frontcourt next year.

UNC is loaded with young bigs. The cream of the crop.

With respect to Kentucky, you can speculate about Cousins and Orton leaving similarly to Harris and Sacre leaving. Neither are close to being ready at the moment, but are quite capable of meteoric sophmore jumps.

Believe me. If the Zags have the best front court in the country next year, then the NBA is ready to take them before they even get to that point.

I don't think that is the case. Harris will project as a wing. Sacre needs more seasoning.

With respect to Harris, I think he is one of the best players in college basketball right now. He isn't a true four though. He is so gifted he can dominate at the position anyway.

cggonzaga
01-02-2010, 09:43 PM
Believe me. If the Zags have the best front court in the country next year, then the NBA is ready to take them before they even get to that point.

Doesn't that kind of help my argument? If all those other guys are going pro and ours don't then wouldn't that mean we'd be left with the best? Anyway, I believe our guys compare favorably regardless of who leaves or doesn't leave. Call me a homer or whatever you'd like but that's how I sees it.

The other argument that someone made about other universities bigs getting better or new players coming in disregards the fact that our players will get better as well. In no way has any of our bigs reached their full potential yet. And yes I agree great coaching helps to win games but if you don't have the best dogs in the fight all the coaching in the world isn't going to matter.

p.s. I've seen UNC live this season and their bigs (other than Thompson and Davis) play like guards. Not bangers or post players at all.

LynetteG
01-02-2010, 09:50 PM
NO TEAM IN AMERICA Can Match Fr Hightower on the Bench!!!!!

I loved seeing him jumping up and down, cheering the guys on! I even pointed it out to my husband, saying how cool I thought that was!

dpouley
01-02-2010, 09:52 PM
Nobody in America can match our depth and skill in the frontcourt next year.

Come on. Take off the blue and red glasses.

I agree that the front court will be very good, but it is really impossible for you to know or to claim that they will be the best in America. Its impossible to know who will and won't leave for the NBA, its impossible to know who will come from a bench position to be a serious contributor to their team and its impossible to know what freshman will be entering college next year.

The front court is encouraging, but best in America?

cggonzaga
01-02-2010, 09:53 PM
Coming from a Husky fan with no bigs at all. Nice loss at home to a bad Oregon team by the way.

dpouley
01-02-2010, 10:04 PM
Coming from a Husky fan with no bigs at all. Nice loss at home to a bad Oregon team by the way.

Wow, that is a great response. In fact, you convinced me that Gonzaga will have the best front court in America next year, by attacking me and bringing up something that has nothing to do with your original argument or anything that I said.

Ziggy
01-02-2010, 10:33 PM
Come on. Take off the blue and red glasses.

I agree that the front court will be very good, but it is really impossible for you to know or to claim that they will be the best in America. Its impossible to know who will and won't leave for the NBA, its impossible to know who will come from a bench position to be a serious contributor to their team and its impossible to know what freshman will be entering college next year.

The front court is encouraging, but best in America?

dp is right. The most you can say is that the Zags could be very good. Maybe at the end of next year, in retrospect, we might be able to make a bolder statement.

cggonzaga
01-02-2010, 10:34 PM
Whew good. I wasn't sure if it was going to be "impossible" to convince you or not being that I can't see into the future but now that we agree it's all good. I guess because we already have one of the best frontcourts in the nation this year and they're all underclassmen my assessment wasn't very accurate.

Point taken Ziggy. We could have the best frontcourt in the nation next year. I just like our chances with what we have and for some of the negative nancy's around here, it doesn't hurt to believe in our players and their tremendous abilities.

thespywhozaggedme
01-02-2010, 10:36 PM
Robs low rebounding #'s are my only concern.

1973Zag
01-03-2010, 05:51 AM
WE will be very,very good, one of the best, Can't we leave it at that. I could not be happier with the team we have, but we still cant lure the players that some schools get routinely. Not a knock on us, but actually a compliment. It still amazes me that we can develop players to compete with the "elite" year after year. Again, not a knock on our players, they are very very good, but many times our athletes are beating even better ones. And yes, I think we have some NBA worthy players, but we are not known as a hotbed-----YET

mgadfly
01-03-2010, 07:28 AM
Yes our players will probably get better. That doesn't mean they will be as good as Josh Smith, Jared Sullinger, or Deshaun Thomas. If freshmen can't be as good as upperclassmen then this Zags team would be the 300th or so best team in the nation. If freshmen can be as good or better than upper classmen then it is very possible some of these highly recruited, five star, McDonald All-Americans who are absolute locks to be taken in the top 5 of the NBA draft, may possess the same or better skills and physicality of Harris, Olynyck, and Sacre. (*And why is Olynyck's guard like skill set a positive while North Carolina's big's guard like skill set a negative?)

This won't even be the best Zag front-line this decade as I think most of us would still take Morrison-Turiaf-Batista over it.

Best in our hearts as Zag fans? Yeah.
Best by most objective standards? No, and just imagine our excitement if a five star recruit ranked in the top 5 nationally suddenly committed to GU, instead of our usual three-star and occasional 4-star (Heytvelt, Downs, and Daye) types. We'd go bananas and rightfully so.

How about we leave it at this, instead of building up expectations that are so unrealistic that we are bound to be let down: "The Zags front court will be good enough next year that we'll be able to match up with even the best teams from the toughest conferences."

cbbfanatic
01-03-2010, 07:55 AM
Is there any question that if Harris comes back next year we will have the best frontcourt in America? Harris (potential player of the year), Rob (not many 7' as talented), KO (will shoot the rock better next year plus the fact he has a great skill set) and Dower (poor man's Harris in my opinion). Very exciting to look forward to next year even though I'm very excited about this year's possibilities.

your post would gain some credence if you listed out 4-5 other strong frontcourts for next year and made a comparison. as it stands, i would guess that you have a lack of familiarity with NCAA hoops from coast to coast that would qualify you to make such a bold statement.

you need to make a case for it if you want people to buy it. otherwise, it looks like you speak from ignorance.

my opinion, frontcourt strength for NEXT YEAR is very hard to predict halfway through THIS YEAR as the best frontcourt guys with the highest potential are more likely to be lured away to the NBA than guards. it takes less on court performance to draft a 6'11'' 4 man than a 6'3'' PG, thus making it harder to forecast in january.

we should know a lot more about this when the draft deadline rolls around

deathchina
01-03-2010, 08:28 AM
I guess the better question is.....

Does our frontcourt THIS year have the most potential of any frontcourt in America?

IMHO, no.

Darth Zag
01-03-2010, 10:44 AM
I think BZ is right on about Dower being somewhat similar to that Jujuan Johnson guy from Purdue. Even if Dower can be a poor man's Juju, that'll be real good.

I think a top five frontcourt next year is definitely realistic with everybody making offseason improvements as expected.

Is anybody else as impressed as I am with Wisconsin's Jon Leuer? I love that big guy's game!

MississppiZag
01-03-2010, 11:31 AM
I thought from what I have read and seen, scarce as it is, that Mike Davis of Illinois is the most comparable player. Both are 6'9'', slight build, have a jump shot, can leap, and possess a hook/floater.

MDABE80
01-03-2010, 11:46 AM
You guys mostly haven't seen Sam Dower yet. He's a rebounder and a scorer...he's a superior player. He's redshirting but he's got those tools. I cannot say if he has the motor of Elias but he's big, filling out, has a nose for the ball ( knows where it'll be after a missed shot) has soft hands, has tremendous feet.

DP is kinda right...just kinda though (can't give him full props)...:). We'll see as things turn for next year. If nobody leaves, GU will be in the top 5-10 in the front court. We need Rob to get back into his agressive mode. Andy needs more time to show his stuff...Rob, Elias, Sam, Andy, (where does out Kelly fit?)..maybe one more..not certain just yet.

cggonzaga
01-03-2010, 02:52 PM
Last post I'll make on the subject. Too many of you are way too interested in number of stars on a recruit. Stars don't always make for a better player. Just because a player chooses UNC, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, etc. does not mean that player is automatically one of the best players in the country or will even turn into that. One thing GU's coaching staff does better than any program in the country is develop their players. We've heard comments from commentators not associated with the program who believe this is one of the best frontcourts in America all year long. We've absolutely embarrassed the frontcourts from the Big 10, a conference known for their frontcourts. By all accounts our bigs dominated the Texas frontcourt in the scrimmage. My argument based on the fact that we already have one of the top frontcourts in America this year along with the fact that we'll be adding Dower and along with the fact we have one of the top coaching staff's at developing their players should be sufficient enough to believe we could have the nations top frontcourt next year. Whether or not some of you want to believe that is up to you but I will take our guys over anybody elses next year. Sorry to some of you that find it hard to believe in some of these "pollyannish" thoughts about your own team.

Zag79
01-03-2010, 07:29 PM
Robs low rebounding #'s are my only concern.

this just isnt the case, and im tired of reading about it. i watched at least 7-8 times (yes i counted them) against illini where rob boxed his man 5-6 feet out of the post so one our players could come in and snatch the bound. matt, harris, gray, all of them are reaping the benefits from robs hard work and great ability to box out. sure he does miss 1 or 2 when he bobbles it, and i want him to grab "everything" too. but for the big picture, he is the main cog to why our guards rebound so well. take a look for yourself, just watch rob during a game when the opposition shoots. he almost always gets his man or a big, and moves them completely out of the paint. then another zag will jump in and secure the board. he may not be filling his own stat line but hes sure helping the teams!

MickMick
01-03-2010, 07:36 PM
this just isnt the case, and im tired of reading about it. i watched at least 7-8 times (yes i counted them) against illini where rob boxed his man 5-6 feet out of the post so one our players could come in and snatch the bound. matt, harris, gray, all of them are reaping the benefits from robs hard work and great ability to box out. sure he does miss 1 or 2 when he bobbles it, and i want him to grab "everything" too. but for the big picture, he is the main cog to why our guards rebound so well. take a look for yourself, just watch rob during a game when the opposition shoots. he almost always gets his man or a big, and moves them completely out of the paint. then another zag will jump in and secure the board. he may not be filling his own stat line but hes sure helping the teams!

I have noticed this lately too. I was kind of quick to dismiss his rebounding numbers as well. But upon further review, Rob is boxing out well underneath.

Gotta look to his freshman year to really appreciate how much he has improved.