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ZagHouse
01-02-2010, 11:48 AM
Go back and watch the bench react to some of the shots made at the end of the game. G.J was the only Zag not bouncing out of his chair. I hope he's not putting playing time over being part of a team and battling to a difficult win in a hostile environment.

BobZag
01-02-2010, 11:56 AM
Was he wearing a t-shirt?

DickausBuzzerBeaters
01-02-2010, 11:57 AM
I didn't see that, but maybe he was just like most of us in that he was relieved and didn't have any energy after that? Or maybe he's saying "Coach, seriously? How much worse can I be than Meech?" (Although He's no better than Meech, he might not know that yet. ;-)

Bouldin4Prez
01-02-2010, 11:59 AM
Ok Dickaus we all know you don't like how meech is in the game, but jabs like that are unwarranted and unnecessary. Meech plays with more fire and heart than the rest of the team combined. He is still a true sophomore and has time to learn, so now that you have made your point enough with the negativity.

MJ777
01-02-2010, 12:01 PM
What did he Twitter? ;)

whatazag
01-02-2010, 12:03 PM
Was he wearing a t-shirt?

Haha, nice. Too bad you have rep disabled.

BroncoZAG615
01-02-2010, 12:04 PM
I heard that he and Grant wore white T-shirts before the game as a show of solidarity and facebooking and tweeting about how silly old Mark Few is.

Sheesh.

BobZag
01-02-2010, 12:06 PM
Searching for petty little negatives after a big win is just weird to me. Be happy for a day. Trust me, it doesn't hurt. Honest.

Happy New Year.

Crusader Rick
01-02-2010, 12:11 PM
Geez, some folks here are worse than my fellow Red Sox fans...always looking for the turd sandwich in the middle of a five star buffet. How about enjoying a phemomenally gritty win. Unless there is some proof of stuff like this, I really think it's irresponsible to post it.

DickausBuzzerBeaters
01-02-2010, 12:15 PM
Ok Dickaus we all know you don't like how meech is in the game, but jabs like that are unwarranted and unnecessary. Meech plays with more fire and heart than the rest of the team combined. He is still a true sophomore and has time to learn, so now that you have made your point enough with the negativity.

I'm one of those fans that is hard on players who don't play well.. I'm not one of the fans (like most on here) that are going to pat a player on the back no matter what..

Shoot, I'm not even one of the people that wants to see Meech sit to start the game. I think has he learns his role and plays a little smarter, he can greatly help this team, but there are several occasions when he drives me crazy, and I'm not afraid to point it out.

Stop worrying about what my opinion is, and just state your own. Don't complain about my posts anymore, I'm tired of people not being allowed to state their opinions on this board without getting hounded with neg rep and being called out.

OPINIONS. Everyone has their own opinions. Grow up and let us have our own opinions. This isn't a "Only good things can be said about Zags players board." I don't agree with attacking a player or being mean, but simply having an opinion doesn't deserve a response every 5 minutes.

Saxon_zag
01-02-2010, 12:20 PM
I'm one of those fans that is hard on players who don't play well.. I'm not one of the fans (like most on here) that are going to pat a player on the back no matter what..

Shoot, I'm not even one of the people that wants to see Meech sit to start the game. I think has he learns his role and plays a little smarter, he can greatly help this team, but there are several occasions when he drives me crazy, and I'm not afraid to point it out.

Stop worrying about what my opinion is, and just state your own. Don't complain about my posts anymore, I'm tired of people not being allowed to state their opinions on this board without getting hounded with neg rep and being called out.

OPINIONS. Everyone has their own opinions. Grow up and let us have our own opinions. This isn't a "Only good things can be said about Zags players board." I don't agree with attacking a player or being mean, but simply having an opinion doesn't deserve a response every 5 minutes.

Good post. Really annoying that if you ever call out meech people always find one thing that he did well in the game and justify the 30+ minutes he gets a game. I like the kid too he seems really nice but he's just not performing and is a liability offensively. Saying "well he had that 1 nice stop on defense" doesn't justify this.

SanDiegoZag
01-02-2010, 12:22 PM
IYeah, G.J.'s playing time will go up when he starts playing a little more unselfishly. I think Few wants him to shoot, but I don't think he is happy with him always trying to create his own shot...

Hopefully, either Meech or G.J. can make huge strides as the year goes on.


Noticed that too. Plays very selfishly also. Can see why Few has him rooted to the bench.

alaskazagnut
01-02-2010, 12:23 PM
But if someones opinion is to disagree with your posts then they have a right to state their opinions. We all have to have thicks skins in this anonymous internet world we live in. Its not like we actually lose any real face or anything.

primal23
01-02-2010, 12:24 PM
I heard through super extreme secret informant (hence to be known as Deeper Throat) that GJ was trying to confuse the crowd and the Illini by using reverse psychology. Cheer for UI but not for his team. Obviously in OT it worked! :p :p

Air Force Zag
01-02-2010, 12:27 PM
I'm one of those fans that is hard on players who don't play well.. I'm not one of the fans (like most on here) that are going to pat a player on the back no matter what..

Shoot, I'm not even one of the people that wants to see Meech sit to start the game. I think has he learns his role and plays a little smarter, he can greatly help this team, but there are several occasions when he drives me crazy, and I'm not afraid to point it out.

Stop worrying about what my opinion is, and just state your own. Don't complain about my posts anymore, I'm tired of people not being allowed to state their opinions on this board without getting hounded with neg rep and being called out.

OPINIONS. Everyone has their own opinions. Grow up and let us have our own opinions. This isn't a "Only good things can be said about Zags players board." I don't agree with attacking a player or being mean, but simply having an opinion doesn't deserve a response every 5 minutes.

There's a certain irony to someone complaining when a person says they should be able to express their opinions freely, yet complains when people express an opinion about *their* opinion...live by the sword, die by the sword....

BTW, Meech's hustle saved us a possession in OT...which saved us the game.

DickausBuzzerBeaters
01-02-2010, 12:28 PM
There's a certain irony to someone complaining when a person says they should be able to express their opinions freely, yet complains when people express an opinion about *their* opinion...live by the sword, die by the sword....

BTW, Meech's hustle saved us a possession in OT...which saved us the game.

There is a difference in Opinion and calling someone out. I don't have a problem with people's OPINIONS. I have a problem when people get butt hurt about MY opinion. Have your own opinion, let me have mine, and don't complain like a girl about MY OPINION.

TexasZagFan
01-02-2010, 12:29 PM
I've never been a coach, but this is the advice I'd give to those who haven't played as much as they would like:

Work hard, stay ready...you're a rolled ankle or a couple of cheap fouls from being pressed into action. Those situations normally seem to arise in a hostile environment in pressure situations. By working hard in practice, you make your teammates better, too.

I didn't see anything close to the ball movement I saw against Oklahoma, although I'm sure Illinois had a lot to do with that.

That was a heady play by Meech to get that jump ball.

11-3, the crown from Maui...with nine players who had zero minutes of Division I basketball experience coming into this season. Everybody deserves a

:000tens:

gamagin
01-02-2010, 12:31 PM
Good post. Really annoying that if you ever call out meech people always find one thing that he did well in the game and justify the 30+ minutes he gets a game. I like the kid too he seems really nice but he's just not performing and is a liability offensively. Saying "well he had that 1 nice stop on defense" doesn't justify this.

I am the "people" you refer to above.

and as it turns out Meech, having had a really poor game overall, did save the ball for GU at the end of the game, giving us a chance and EH a chance to make the winning shot.

Sorry it ruined your effort to sink the sword deeper into his heart, into this game and question the sanity of Few and the the forces of gravity and the rotation of the earth.

If that is picking on the bile you spewed all over him, tough sh!te.

What's wrong with giving him his due ? You could learn something if you were inclined: you could work your way through an incredible day like Meech just did. And make something positive out of it.

jazzdelmar
01-02-2010, 12:32 PM
i think GJ is transfer material..he has that wistful, i made a big mistake look, a la PMAC and LG and Josh R....just a guess, but with Kyle and hopefully a better guard next year, as well as Meech and GG in front of him, who could blame him?

surfmonkey89
01-02-2010, 12:36 PM
I say this all the time, but I'll say it again: when you have a game that is tied at the end of regulation and is won by one possession overall, you can look at literally every possession of the game, pick out the play of nearly every player on that possession, and say "that made the difference".

Regarding all the Meech bashing, as CDC has repeatedly said, Meech's role is to bring the ball upcourt and hand it to Gray and Bouldin.

Not to put words in CDC's mouth, but I think there is also an implication that Meech gets around 8pts per game and minimizes turnovers. He has done neither, though his turnovers aren't as bad number-wise as they are looks-wise, because he often gives up the ball because he's out of control.

BTW, for those of you who want to bring in GJ, you're asking to put in the only guy who is more out of control than Meech.

I think there are a lot of positives to look back on in this game.

The team continued to pass more and better than they did against Duke, Gray looks like he's gotten the message to shoot, and did anyone notice that on Bouldin's critical three at the end he got the ball from Sacre, who passed it to him from the paint? That to me was the best play I saw during the game, because it gives me hope that someone is getting through to him and though progress is coming more slowly than many of us would like, progress is coming.

MickMick
01-02-2010, 12:36 PM
Few is shortening up the rotation.

Looks like Olynyk, Kong, Arop, and to a lesser degree, Foster have emerged as the bench players of a 8/9 man rotation.

Few has given ample "game situation" opportunity to all other scholarship players except for possibly Poling and he has made the hard choices.

I personally like the 9 man rotation he appears to be settling in on. From personal game observations, it is the same rotation I would have chosen.

I look for more refining. I expect that we might see Goodson gradually lose a little more time in favor of Kong and Arop.

Anybody else on this board ready for conference play?

TexasZagFan
01-02-2010, 12:39 PM
Noticed that too. Plays very selfishly also. Can see why Few has him rooted to the bench.

FWIW, Tim Hardaway was rooted to the bench as a freshman at UTEP.

My perspective? GJ was trying to do a bit too much during his first few appearances. He was THE MAN in HS, and the adjustment to what Coach Few wants is obviously not there.

Kids like GJ & Grant (and Poling) are the odd men out on this team. They'll get more minutes in WCC play. Next year, there will be Matt's minutes to compete for. This year, it's practice hard and learn your role in the system.

Blame scheduling, too. Our top 5 had to log mucho minutes due to the teams we were playing, and we were playing to win the games, vs. winning moral victories.

zag67
01-02-2010, 12:43 PM
I agree that we should be cheering the win. Also how many of you (realistly) would have said that we would be 11- 3 at the start of league. Not many. Did they plays some bad basketball? Yes, 15 minutes. Did they play some unbelieveable basketball? Yes 15 minutes. And lastly they played 15 minutes of solid basketball.

They are young and are making many errors of trying to do too much. But the errors are not in giving up. All of them have flaws and it is up to the coaches to work with them on improving them and during the next 16 games, I think that we will be seeing that happen. At the end of the season, many of our players will still have flaws that need more improvement and that it what the summer is about. We will all have opinions on how they can be better or that they should not be there. Our coaches will be working with them and our coaches need to recognize when a player is not functioning and come up with work arounds. This team is going to be fun to watch and at time frustrating, but in the end I think that this team could be one of our better teams.

TexasZagFan
01-02-2010, 12:54 PM
zag67:


This team is going to be fun to watch and at time frustrating, but in the end I think that this team could be one of our better teams.

This is a remarkable team, indeed! NINE freshman on the roster? C'mon folks, remember when we were freshman? I do, and Napoleon was still a little snot nosed kid.

Out of 14 games, one huevo was laid. No, I don't count WF as a bad loss. It was a learning experience for the team. Looks to me like the kids learned their lesson from Duke, too.

Within the space of 48 hours, we knocked off teams from the Big-12 and Big-10...remarkable.

jazzdelmar
01-02-2010, 12:58 PM
zag67:



This is a remarkable team, indeed! NINE freshman on the roster? C'mon folks, remember when we were freshman? I do, and Napoleon was still a little snot nosed kid.

Out of 14 games, one huevo was laid. No, I don't count WF as a bad loss. It was a learning experience for the team. Looks to me like the kids learned their lesson from Duke, too.

Within the space of 48 hours, we knocked off teams from the Big-12 and Big-10...remarkable.



whoa, tex :D two middle of the pack BT and B12 teams, fwiw...now lets sweep the WCC seven sisters of the poor and memphis for a 3-4 seed in spokane

alaskazagnut
01-02-2010, 01:07 PM
has no excuse if he was pouting or whining on the bench. But not everyone celebrates the same. Stress sometimes quiets people down in concentration, other let out the emotion and scream and jump.

G.J. needs to grow up if he was pouting about playing time. However, after the fact, I would agree that with the way Goodson was playing, Vilarino deserved some PT.

What is up with Goodson and free throws? His FT% is unacceptable if he is going to slash to the hoop. He is 62%!!! Meech may deserve to start but he is not producing like a starter. Period.

sittingon50
01-02-2010, 01:33 PM
Oh good.

For a while I was worried that we had lost the bus.

DoMieD
01-02-2010, 01:34 PM
I'm one of those fans that is hard on players who don't play well.. I'm not one of the fans (like most on here) that are going to pat a player on the back no matter what..

Shoot, I'm not even one of the people that wants to see Meech sit to start the game. I think has he learns his role and plays a little smarter, he can greatly help this team, but there are several occasions when he drives me crazy, and I'm not afraid to point it out.

Stop worrying about what my opinion is, and just state your own. Don't complain about my posts anymore, I'm tired of people not being allowed to state their opinions on this board without getting hounded with neg rep and being called out.

OPINIONS. Everyone has their own opinions. Grow up and let us have our own opinions. This isn't a "Only good things can be said about Zags players board." I don't agree with attacking a player or being mean, but simply having an opinion doesn't deserve a response every 5 minutes.

Good post.. This is the only board on the internet where your not allowed to speak your opinion if your criticizing a player or not happy about a loss.

If this is true about G.J. then that is not a good sign. I didn't notice this, but pouting on the bench b/c your not getting play time is not gonna cut it. As far as Meech goes, I have no problem with his play.. he needs to work on his shot a little and he will be fine.

Saxon_zag
01-02-2010, 02:21 PM
I am the "people" you refer to above.

and as it turns out Meech, having had a really poor game overall, did save the ball for GU at the end of the game, giving us a chance and EH a chance to make the winning shot.

Sorry it ruined your effort to sink the sword deeper into his heart, into this game and question the sanity of Few and the the forces of gravity and the rotation of the earth.

If that is picking on the bile you spewed all over him, tough sh!te.

What's wrong with giving him his due ? You could learn something if you were inclined: you could work your way through an incredible day like Meech just did. And make something positive out of it.

Yes meech saved a possession and made a nice hustle stop near the end of the game there but like i said that doesn't justify it. He wasted multiple possessions with silly turnovers, missed the front end of a 1 and 1, the last shot of regulation was absolutely forced, selfish, stupid, and did i say selfish? Having matt wide open and who do you think the coach wants taking that shot?

You act as if i'm rooting against meech to do well so i can somehow insult him. That's not the case at all i want him very badly to find a jump shot and do well but right not it is just not happening and i would much rather have Arop or Kong starting and getting the amount of minutes

gamagin
01-02-2010, 04:25 PM
Yes meech saved a possession and made a nice hustle stop near the end of the game there but like i said that doesn't justify it. He wasted multiple possessions with silly turnovers, missed the front end of a 1 and 1, the last shot of regulation was absolutely forced, selfish, stupid, and did i say selfish? Having matt wide open and who do you think the coach wants taking that shot?

You act as if i'm rooting against meech to do well so i can somehow insult him. That's not the case at all i want him very badly to find a jump shot and do well but right not it is just not happening and i would much rather have Arop or Kong starting and getting the amount of minutes

that arop or kong could do what he does. I have been told no one has more energy, strength and endurance than Meech. It comes from the coaches, not the GUB.

You said you were annoyed. It's even more annoying to keep hearing the same claptrap day after day and game after game when the real issue is arop and kong can't take Meech's game away in practice. They can't beat him out. What makes you think they can outperform in a game ? When the pressure is on ? More minutes means either can perform longer & better. Less meech minuts necessarily means better kong-arop minutes ? Do you have some insight I'm missing? Because if you do, I will look at it and see if perhaps I'm being unfair with you, like i believe you are being unfair with meech. You are not alone, btw, but you chose to whine that I gave him credit where it was due. It may have been the turning point in the game. That moment when we took advantage of his heads up and, thanks to EH, won it.

I think your love of the unknown, i.e. kong and arop, come from limited minutes. I like what I see, too, fwiw.

But there's an underlying assumption here that you are not alone in perpetuating, that I find just false.

It goes like this: I don't like the progress this guy is making so lets assume someone behind him in the lineup, behind him in the p.t. scale and behind him in ever other way we know about, except what we've seen of one of them, therefore he is worse than they are.

How is that ? Why can't these deaf, dumb and blind coaches and even teammates see this when it just so obvious to the pundit wannabes on the GUB ?

My answer: because one side of this argument doesn't know what it's talking about and the other does. You pick.

misszigzag
01-02-2010, 05:01 PM
Go back and watch the bench react to some of the shots made at the end of the game. G.J was the only Zag not bouncing out of his chair. I hope he's not putting playing time over being part of a team and battling to a difficult win in a hostile environment.


We are really for something to get all worked up about aren't we?
Analyzing the reaction of the bench and then making blind assumptions is really pushing it.

vandalzag
01-02-2010, 05:14 PM
Go back and watch the bench react to some of the shots made at the end of the game. G.J was the only Zag not bouncing out of his chair. I hope he's not putting playing time over being part of a team and battling to a difficult win in a hostile environment.

You must be a true fan. I have been wasting all my time watching the game and players playing the game. Little did I know that the game was decided by the perceived attitude of a player on the bench. I know that PMAG was very aggressive in his chearing, do you think that is what made the difference in the game? Your insight is so brilliant, it may alter the makeup of future recruiting classes. Gone will be the days where coaches look for the best shooters or rebounders. No from now on the foundation for the future will be the 12th man on the bench and what kind of jumping up and down during big games he will be able to bring.
You would be the guy who wins the lottery and complains about having to drive down to the lottery office to collect your winnings. I hope your period of mourning after this win is short. Remember to wear black on Monday.

webspinnre
01-02-2010, 05:47 PM
First of all, I have no idea whether that's his way of cheering. I know for me when I'm watching, I'm not a loud shouting person, I tend to be more of an intense, sit-down, mostly motionless person. Maybe that's more his style. Second, don't we have better things to do then sit around trying to guess at a person's personality flaws? His time will come, he's just stuck behind a guy with a very similar skillset, and two experienced upper-class guards. Right now there just aren't enough minutes to go around. If someone gets tired, or (God forbid) hurt in conference play, he needs to be ready to go. Also, he's a pure freshman - there are tons of pure freshman not playing much, and in some cases redshirting.

RenoZag
01-02-2010, 06:33 PM
Go back and watch the bench react to some of the shots made at the end of the game. G.J was the only Zag not bouncing out of his chair. I hope he's not putting playing time over being part of a team and battling to a difficult win in a hostile environment.

:vomit-smiley-007: