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ID ZAGFAN
12-07-2009, 10:15 AM
Seth Davis blog:

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hoop_thoughts?eref=from SI

* Good call by Fran Fraschilla throwing out Gonzagaís Matt Bouldin for early (read: premature) All-America consideration. I donít know if Bouldin will warrant first-team honors at seasonís end, but he has been blazing at the start, averaging 18.4 points (41.8 percent three-point shooting), 5.6 rebounds and 4.0 assists.

* Although if point guard Demetri Goodson doesnít develop some long-range shooting skills, Gonzaga will a little too easy to guard in the halfcourt. Goodson is fast, but he was just 1 for 8 from three-point range during the Zagsí first eight games. I guarantee you that will be in every opponentís scouting report this season.

ID ZAGFAN

CDC84
12-07-2009, 10:19 AM
Although if point guard Demetri Goodson doesn’t develop some long-range shooting skills, Gonzaga will a little too easy to guard in the halfcourt. Goodson is fast, but he was just 1 for 8 from three-point range during the Zags’ first eight games. I guarantee you that will be in every opponent’s scouting report this season.

It already is. That being said, I think Seth should recognize that there are several top 25 teams who have at least one guard or wing who doesn't shoot it well from long distance and who isn't a high level scorer.

If Matty keeps playing this way, and if GU keeps winning, he's going to be an All American. I don't know about 1st team.

Ezag
12-07-2009, 10:33 AM
At this same point in his career I don't think Goodson is as good as Pargo. Neither could shoot but Pargo was a much better PG

SpokastSports
12-07-2009, 10:41 AM
Regardless of there being other teams with a player who can't shoot behind the arc, Goodson's so one dimensional that he couldn't very well hit a jumper either. He's all about trying to break his way through the D but when that defense is already prepared for that and offers him an open three that he very well won't hit, he's useless. He had moderate success v. Wake when the play was broken or off of an offensive rebound by someone else.

CDC84
12-07-2009, 10:50 AM
Goodson is a much better on ball defender than Pargo though. In fact, according to Few, Meech is the best he has ever coached in that department.....including Quentin Hall.

SpokastSports
12-07-2009, 10:53 AM
Goodson is a good defender, without a doubt. I just dunno if it would be in the best interest of him shutting down the opposing PG for the first of the halves and after slowing him down, bringing in someone else for offense. I realize that seems a little unrealistic...

Drew
12-07-2009, 11:06 AM
Goodson is a much better on ball defender than Pargo though. In fact, according to Few, Meech is the best he has ever coached in that department.....including Quentin Hall.

I agree regarding Goodson's abilities as a defender. . . though I was thinking all summer long that there was too much hype about goodson being "great," that there may be some backlash. Of course, he was given tons of responsibility this year as a sophmore. He just needs more time in his new role before we see him at his best.

Zag4Hire
12-07-2009, 11:16 AM
Good point CDC. Sure makes me feel better.

Are you a moderator's pseudonym?

webspinnre
12-07-2009, 11:57 AM
I could live with Meech not being great at shooting if he was more controlled in his ability to drive the lane, and not end up with so many turnovers or blocked shots from doing so. Not everyone can both slash and shoot, but a PG needs to be able to do one of them.

TheMorrisonIsBack
12-07-2009, 12:53 PM
At this same point in his career I don't think Goodson is as good as Pargo. Neither could shoot but Pargo was a much better PG

Correct. It's not even close. IMO Pargo was better getting to the rim as a Soph and Junior than as a senior... Pargo was really, really good. Meech doesn't really have an offense at all....

BoZarth
12-07-2009, 01:18 PM
The average fan really can't appreciate what he brings on the defensive end. It's much easier to notice a missed shot or turnover.

And with that comes less appreciation for what Meech does on the defensive side of the ball not to mention his ability to push the ball up the court.

His shot by no means looks bad. There's room for improvement and I believe he'll get there.

Go Zags!!!!

lothar98zag
12-07-2009, 01:29 PM
...there are several top 25 teams who have at least one guard or wing who doesn't shoot it well from long distance and who isn't a high level scorer.
agreed

example #1: GU used this to their advantage vs WF (& I'm not talking about when they sagged on guards that then got hot from outside - that was definitely not good for GU)

229SintoZag
12-07-2009, 03:48 PM
I agree that Pargo had more offense at this point in his career. Pargo used to be able to get to the rim at will and get layups, and rarely got stuffed doing so. Meech is even quicker than Pargo, so he should be able to do the same.

But he doesn't. He drives into traffic and gets jammed up or stuffed, and he often is lucky to even be able to dish the ball.

With his speed he should be able to get to the rack at will, like Pargo did. I recognize that Pargo was significantly bigger than Meech, but even so Meech is not getting to the rim like he should be.

Can we get Bol Kong to give Meech lessons on how to shoot the ball from the perimeter, and get Meech to show Kong how to play D? I seriously still think Kong has the nicest looking stroke I've seen at GU in a long time. And Meech's D-well, I'll take Few's word for it. They can each learn a bit from one another.

TheMorrisonIsBack
12-07-2009, 03:55 PM
I agree that Pargo had more offense at this point in his career. Pargo used to be able to get to the rim at will and get layups, and rarely got stuffed doing so. Meech is even quicker than Pargo, so he should be able to do the same.

But he doesn't. He drives into traffic and gets jammed up or stuffed, and he often is lucky to even be able to dish the ball.

With his speed he should be able to get to the rack at will, like Pargo did. I recognize that Pargo was significantly bigger than Meech, but even so Meech is not getting to the rim like he should be.

Can we get Bol Kong to give Meech lessons on how to shoot the ball from the perimeter, and get Meech to show Kong how to play D? I seriously still think Kong has the nicest looking stroke I've seen at GU in a long time. And Meech's D-well, I'll take Few's word for it. They can each learn a bit from one another.

Pargo was a beast. He was so much stronger than Meech. If you wanna take it to the rack, you gotta be strong enough and crafty enough to do so. Meech is neither.

MickMick
12-07-2009, 04:23 PM
Early in his sophmore season Pargo wasn't nearly as good as he was as an upper classmen. In fact, I don't think he was very good at all as an underclassmen.

Goodson will evolve too.

billyberu
12-07-2009, 04:31 PM
Pargo was a beast. He was so much stronger than Meech. If you wanna take it to the rack, you gotta be strong enough and crafty enough to do so. Meech is neither.

I see your mind is pretty well made up. However, it doesn't leave much room for improvement by Meech. It's almost if...you wish he doesn't get better. Is that true?

The thing about Jeremy Pargo was he was 6'2" and built like a brick $/hit house. Of course, he is going to be more physical in getting to the rim. Meech needs to learn to stop and pop for the short J. He could get easy seperation and wouldn't have to drive amongst the trees. If defenses want to sag off of him then he needs to shoot it.

Ok, I'll admit I know next to nothing compared to the sage basketball minds on this site, but I do know Meech can get better. He's also got moxy and will mix it up with anyone. You've got to like his attitude.

Yours? I'm not so sure.

WallaWallaZag
12-07-2009, 05:32 PM
pargo was a linebacker playing the point...he overpowered opponents around the rim. pargo could still get to the rim when defenses backed off and he actually shot enough to keep most honest. meech only has speed and you can stop speed by backing off...people keep mentioning assists with meech but need to realize that he also has a harder time passing because defenses are playing the pass against him. he absolutely has to start hitting some shots for both assists and driving lanes to come.

ZagNative
12-07-2009, 07:05 PM
Early in his sophmore season Pargo wasn't nearly as good as he was as an upper classmen. In fact, I don't think he was very good at all as an underclassmen.

Goodson will evolve too.Am I missing something, Mick? Because otherwise, it looks to me like your memory, like the memories of too many here where Jeremy is concerned, isn't very good.

Might want to look at some box scores from Pargo's sophomore year, maybe starting with:

UNC at Madison Square Gardens (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=263260153): By this time in his sophomore season, Jeremy managed 16 points on six of eleven fgs, under the brightest lights of all, while being guarded by Ty Lawson, with the Zags coming up with the W :


http://lh4.ggpht.com/_UkLNCxT74w4/Sx3KDfyVTiI/AAAAAAAACvU/kj4PoZPaPwI/2006-11-23%20Jeremy%20-%20UNC%20-%20guarded%20by%20Ty%20Lawson%201%20small.jpg

Texas @ the HOF Challenge in Phoenix (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=263360251): JP managed to come away with 18 behind leader Raivio's 27, off of 6 of 8 shooting, for the 87 to 77 win, against Kevin Durant's 29.

Stanford @ Stanford (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=270310024): Sophomore Jeremy Pargo was MVP of that game, playing 45 mins. in the double OT 90-86 Zags' win, off of 7-13 shooting, with 7 rb and 3 assists.

JP going for the ball with Fred Washington...


http://lh3.ggpht.com/_UkLNCxT74w4/Sx3A7JaRemI/AAAAAAAACt0/-8pFe6XiMKw/2007-01-31%20Jeremy%20-%20Stanford%2006%20goes%20for%20ball%20with%20Fred %20Wash%20small.jpg

Jeremy's game log at ESPN his sophomore year here (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/gamelog?playerId=26998&year=2007).

I watch this memorable game summary of that Stanford game on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZrfAIENzVg) often.

I love Meech, but Jeremy was agreat Zag and his contributions to this program were huge.

WallaWallaZag
12-07-2009, 07:51 PM
MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P%
33.6 12.1 4.3 4.6 3.3 1.41 1.4 .1 2.6 .486 .732 .373

pargo's soph season...if meech was playing at this level on offense we would be undefeated...that being said, his role is different than pargo's. our offense ran through pargo, now it runs through bouldin and sometimes gray. not really a fair comparison considering how much better meech is on d, but the fact remains that meech needs to start making some shots.

ZagNative
12-07-2009, 07:54 PM
MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P%
33.6 12.1 4.3 4.6 3.3 1.41 1.4 .1 2.6 .486 .732 .373

pargo's soph season...if meech was playing at this level on offense we would be undefeated...that being said, his role is different than pargo's. our offense ran through pargo, now it runs through bouldin and sometimes gray. not really a fair comparison considering how much better meech is on d, but the fact remains that meech needs to start making some shots.Agreed on all counts, except Raivio was lead point guard Pargo's sophomore year, I believe, unless that was the year Raivio was in a funk.

jim77
12-07-2009, 08:13 PM
The average fan really can't appreciate what he brings on the defensive end. It's much easier to notice a missed shot or turnover.

And with that comes less appreciation for what Meech does on the defensive side of the ball not to mention his ability to push the ball up the court.

His shot by no means looks bad. There's room for improvement and I believe he'll get there.

Go Zags!!!!


Agreed


One other thing that Meech brings to the offense is this: He effectively takes the press off of the table for opposing teams. Pretty nice to know opposing teams will not have a very good option if they fall behind. Keep practicing those 3's Meech!

cjm720
12-07-2009, 08:37 PM
The average fan really can't appreciate what he brings on the defensive end. It's much easier to notice a missed shot or turnover.

And with that comes less appreciation for what Meech does on the defensive side of the ball not to mention his ability to push the ball up the court.

His shot by no means looks bad. There's room for improvement and I believe he'll get there.

Go Zags!!!!.

Well said. My only critique with Meech is there's no reason why he shouldn't be getting more assists. I just can't figure it out...he's got the tools-speed, vision, ability to penetrate. A good shooter can help set up assists but is not necessary.

Well said.

UberZagFan
12-07-2009, 08:45 PM
Uber's not sure why one has to try to compare Meech with Pargo. They are different types of players with different ways to run the team. With that said, Pargo's sophomore year was arguably his best at GU -- the only reason one might think his junior year was better is due to his increased overall leadership of the offense and better ability to get everyone else involved as evidenced by his drastic increase in A/T average.

While Meech has struggle from the floor so far with his shot, it's still early and it's is such a small sample size, he can turn it around pretty quickly. If he gets hot and goes just 3 for 4 from three, then he'll be at 33% just like that. :)

WallaWallaZag
12-07-2009, 10:05 PM
.

Well said. My only critique with Meech is there's no reason why he shouldn't be getting more assists. I just can't figure it out...he's got the tools-speed, vision, ability to penetrate. A good shooter can help set up assists but is not necessary.

Well said.

aside from the fact that the offense isn't running through meech, his inability to make shots is also taking away from potential assists. i think i pointed this out in another thread, but defenses sag off him so he can't penetrate and dish, and when they sag they also prevent assists into the post. assists to cutters is also prevented for this same reason as defenses can play the passing lanes instead of guarding meech. if you watch closely, you'll notice meech sometimes way out past the three point line trying to pull his defender further out to create room for others to operate. you can't get assists when you're 30 feet from the hoop. the assists will come when he starts to hit his shots.