Where is our loyalty?

[ZagsGoZags]

I believe Elias. He looked perplexed, not guilty.

Here is what he said:

"My feeling is I did nothing wrong," said Harris, who came in averaging 14 points and 8 rebounds a game.

Harris said he and Wake Forest's Chas McFarland were struggling for rebound position on C.J. Harris' missed 3-pointer.

"I put one hand on his chest and went for the rebound and he fell," Elias Harris said. "I didn't know what happened."

In the replay Elias' elbow and forearm were aimed at the high chest around the clavicles as McFarland came straight in. What happened if you look closely is that McFarlands right hand raised up to push Elias's arm out of the way and to defend himself, and the two motions together jammed Elias's right hand into McFarlands neck with a lot of force.

Elias told us his account of things. Nothing in the video (which I have watched dozens of times) or his demeanor afterwards contradicts his account. He was clearing some rebounding space the instant he saw the shooter going up.

[ZagLawGrad]

the video...the video.. the refs kicking him out....what else can one say?

[HOOTER]

Maybe It's just me, but Harris looked angry. ESPN showed the replay like what, 15 times? He just seemed to turn, throw up the elbow and go for the throat. If I'm wrong please correct me because I really don't want to believe Harris is capable of such an act. I'd look again but I erased the game from my DVR. I figured I'd never want to watch that again anyway.

BTW, to answer your question, my loyalty is with the Zags regardless. Harris will learn from this experience and the team as a whole will get better.

[BroncoZAG615]

great. another thread to debate this topic. didn't one of these just get locked?

[EngineerZag]

I totally agree that Harris did not intend for McFarland to get elbowed in the throat and crash to the floor. The best evidence of this is the fact that he turned around in a box out position and was obviously surprised to be tripping over McFarland who was on the floor at that point. Remember that these things don't happen at the speed of the replay, they happen in the speed of real life.

[btzag]

I thought it was borderline but you see worse plenty of times throughout the year.

That being said I don't think that is standard technique for boxing out and the coaches will explain as such. Personally I believe he was just trying to be physical but you need to learn to bang in different ways and not forearms to the chest/neck.

I'm not worried about the kid, 8 games played and no notice of dirty play so an isolated incident and borderline at that.

[rijman]

Aside from the ESPN reviews I replayed it on my DVR multiple times. Harris took a shot to the chin and he retaliated. One thought I had was Harris may have thought McFarland was closer, he may have felt his presence, and turned to deliver a shot into his chest but McFarland was further away than he thought and his arms continued ascending the further they got from his body so when he made contact it is was higher than intended. If Mcfarland would have been another foot or two closer he probably would have taken a shot in the chest. Regardless of intention, I think the refs got the call right.

[bballbeachbum]

Regarding owning it, it goes like this

"He elbowed me in the face. there was no call. I elbowed him back. I got caught. I'll try not ot do that next time."

Next!

[maynard g krebs]

Regarding owning it, it goes like this

"He elbowed me in the face. there was no call. I elbowed him back. I got caught. I'll try not ot do that next time."

Next!

Exactly. McFarland normally plays with elbows extended horizontal at head level, and when he pivots, elbow meets head. Elias got pissed and retaliated. Heat of the moment.

An older, wiser player bides his time and waits for an opportunity for a less easily detected payback. McFarland had it coming. Elias will learn to be smarter next time. Of course, Harris' hit was 10x as hard, but that's always how things escalate. The guy who gets hit first is mad, and he hits back harder.

Refs did a great job after that, calling it tight and keeping things under control.

[sullyzag66]

Lavin said Few and staff should look at replay; he should, as well

Well into Lavin's rant, he said, "Again, if the forearm's put into the chest, in terms of teaching or technique on boxout, we often as coaches tell our players to turn, locate an opponent, put the forearm on the chest, pivot, turn, create space and then go to the glass." He went on to say it was a shot to the neck area, but the assumption here is that he was trying to aim higher than the chest area.

Watching the replay, Harris followed that technique to perfection. He looked the opponent off; he didn't stare him down. He created some space and was looking for the rebound. Watching it in slow motion it may appear otherwise, but watch it in real time and he was trying to create space and get a rebound. I don't believe he intended to cheap shot him. He was aggressive and maybe trying to send a message, but I don't think he meant real harm.

[sullyzag66]

I do worry that Harris will get a reputation with refs that will limit his ability to play his game.

[LAZAGFAN11]

Facebook group already up: http://www.facebook.com/#/group.php?...3304447&ref=nf

225 people already joined. Sorry, but this didn't deserve an ejection. I stand with Elias.

[JPtheBeasta]

Maybe It's just me, but Harris looked angry. ESPN showed the replay like what, 15 times? He just seemed to turn, throw up the elbow and go for the throat. If I'm wrong please correct me because I really don't want to believe Harris is capable of such an act. I'd look again but I erased the game from my DVR. I figured I'd never want to watch that again anyway.

BTW, to answer your question, my loyalty is with the Zags regardless. Harris will learn from this experience and the team as a whole will get better.

He always looks angry. Well, intense, at least. I can't honestly say he looked any different than normal. Harris appeared to actually look up at the sky after the whistle blew as if in disbelief that a foul was actually called. Pretty weird reaction for a guy if he is trying to deliberately go after a player he is mad at...

McFarland said that he got struck in the Adam's apple in a post-game interview. I have to say that I caught an inadvertant elbow to the larynx in a pick-up game from a guy who had close to 100 lbs on me and I (A) stayed on my feet, (B) didn't play the rest of the day, and (C) had to put ice on my throat just to breath normally (I learned what "seeing stars" was all about). McFarland looked just fine on the bench after his Euroleague soccer player-esque stint on his tummy. That play was unfortunate but looked much worse than it actually was, IMO.

[xjzico]

That was not just an elbow, that was a forearm. Ask yourself, if that were a Zag player on the receiving end how would you feel? That was reckless on his part no matter what. He made a mistake and it was the huge play of the game.

[Crazy]

i also don't think that this one was intentional, he was instantly going for the rebound.

Maybe another reason could be the different physical apspect of the game, in the US and europe this thing would be called in germany too but i don't think that he get disqualified for it or did you didn't separate betwenn disqualifiying flagrant and flagrant fouls?