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Zag 77
12-03-2009, 03:27 PM
I was listening to Bud Nameck (Cougar radio guy) on the Dennis Patchin Show in Spokane Thursday afternoon. Bud mentioned he is friends with GU Ass't Coach Leon Rice (kids attend school together). He said that over coffee Leon said the GU coaches are definitely concerned about how long Elias Harris will stay at GU.

That guy is an incredible player. If he were to stay at GU for 4 years, he might go down as our greatest player ever, and destined to make a national impact. I know that is saying a lot, but I just feel very lucky we have him as part of the Zag family. Compared to another guy who left early, he doesn't pout or do histrionics. He just seems very level headed and just seems to do whatever the coaches need him to do.

One incredible find by Tommy Lloyd. I wonder if he had to tell him any fibs about the weather in Spokane like he did to Ronny.

Baldwinzag
12-03-2009, 03:36 PM
Rumors are beginning to circulate that Harris has been offered nearly 1 million per year to play for a German Pro team.

However, I don't think he goes anywhere. As CDC and others have eluded to, Harris wants to play in the NBA and the best pathway is for him to become a star while at GU. Elias needs to play against the best and expand his game as a multi-positioned forward in a US-based system. He's a smart kid and understands that Gonzaga is the ideal place to advance his game and receive the most recognition from NBA scouts. We have a tremendous reputation for developing skilled bigs and especially SF's. In just 6 weeks of playing for the Zags, Elias has received more hype and attention than his 3 years of playing all-around Europe. I'm not sure he stays all four years, but he'll be around next season(hopefully more).

hoopster777
12-03-2009, 06:42 PM
Rumors are beginning to circulate that Harris has been offered nearly 1 million per year to play for a German Pro team.

However, I don't think he goes anywhere. As CDC and others have eluded to, Harris wants to play in the NBA and the best pathway is for him to become a star while at GU. Elias needs to play against the best and expand his game as a multi-positioned forward in a US-based system. He's a smart kid and understands that Gonzaga is the ideal place to advance his game and receive the most recognition from NBA scouts. We have a tremendous reputation for developing skilled bigs and especially SF's. In just 6 weeks of playing for the Zags, Elias has received more hype and attention than his 3 years of playing all-around Europe. I'm not sure he stays all four years, but he'll be around next season(hopefully more).

He'd be crazy to take that offer at this moment. Even if he doesn't cut it in the NBA, two great seasons at Gonzaga will up the European offers to the 3-4 million euro range.

RenoZag
12-03-2009, 06:47 PM
I think I could live with Harris being a "one and done" if in that one he contributed to an Elite 8 appearance. . .his future's so bright he better wear shades. I hope he gets to walk on the court during "Senior Night" years from now.

"Elias Harris" gets 3.9 million hits on Google.

"DeAngelo Casto" gets 236,000 hits. . .

YOU make the call !!! ;)

hoopster777
12-03-2009, 06:51 PM
I think I could live with Harris being a "one and done" if in that one he contributed to an Elite 8 appearance. . .his future's so bright he better wear shades.


I just can't see him leaving GU so quickly for the NBA. While he's certainly talented enough, next year's draft is so deep he'd be doing himself a disservice by jumping so early (I think Sacre is much more likely to leave due to his physical build being ideal for the NBA). Next year without Bouldin, Harris will be the team leader. That will get him a ton of national exposure.

zag67
12-03-2009, 09:33 PM
I think after Matt leaves the team leader(s) will be Steven and Harris. IMO

Jyz
12-03-2009, 09:40 PM
Rumors are beginning to circulate that Harris has been offered nearly 1 million per year to play for a German Pro team.


Bwahahaha... Bullsh*t.

Don't underestimate the level of european proball and don't overestimate the amount of money they are able to spend.

mgadfly
12-03-2009, 09:50 PM
Bwahahaha... Bullsh*t.

Don't underestimate the level of european proball and don't overestimate the amount of money they are able to spend.

You are right about "German" teams, but I know there are a lot of well paid players in other parts of Europe.

The top 30 paid basketball players in Europe (none of which played in Germany) made more than 1.8 million Euros per year last season. At current conversion we are talking about 2.7 million dollars. I'm not saying Harris is Top-30, or was even offered a million bucks, but I am saying, don't underestimate how much they can pay over there.

Steffen_Germany
12-03-2009, 11:40 PM
Jyz is right...

It's unlikely that a german pro team offer him nearly 1 million per year. The best players in Germany's BBL receive about 700-800k US$ such as Casey Jacobsen, Ruben Boumtje Boumtje, Ricky Paulding or Julius Jenkins. These players have NBA-experience or had a good european career in strong leagues. As Jyz said, don't underestimate the level of pro-ball in Europe, even in Germany.

Elias played in a third league team (ProB) last year and had about 20 points and 10 rebounds. These are very good stats, but nothing very special in this league. There are some other american players with an average college career who reach this stats. I give you just an example:

I am supporter of a second league team in Germany's ProA, which is called Chemnitz Niners (http://www.eurobasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=GER&Team=1791). Our Pointguard Gary Johnson (http://ucfathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/johnson_gary00.html) played in the same league as Elias last year and won both matches against his team. Johnson had season stats of 20 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists und 3 steals and was named "Defender of the year" (before Elias). Now he is playing in a more competitive league (2nd...where the good teams maybe comparable with a good NCAA-Team like the Zags) and has stats of about 10 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals. He is not nearly skilled enough to play in Germany's first league BBL. A potential 20/10 player in ProB earnings are about 2000 US$ (monthly) + appartment + car. And believe me, there are many good college graduates (with about 15 points in NCAA, of course none of the best teams ;) ) who are even interested in these offers.

You have to know that most european basketball are short-term thinking and they will get NOW the best players they can get for their money...they want the best price/performance ratio. They don't pay for skills like "talented player" or "attidute to work". They don't search for franchise players, they are searching for quick success for little money. I guess in Europe we have hundreds of players which are still better than Elias (even at least 50 players in Germany...probably more). Elias had some contract offers of BBL teams because his german citizenship makes him more attractive in future (there are some rules which will implement more playing time for german players in next years), but in an interview he mentioned that he prefer to go to college (so you can also be sure that these offers where financially not so attractive as you think;) ), than sitting on the bench in Germany's BBL. And yes in many teams he would be a just a bench player...even in Germany. I think he is already one of the Top-10 german players, but an average BBL-team has 6-7 american players and the most of them are really not bad.

What makes Elias so valuable is his talent, his attitude and for us his citizenship (without any doubt he is able to be a very important player of our national team in future, especially when Nowitzki finish his career). Yes maybe in 3-5 years he can be a top european player who can receive 1 million $ per year, but teams will pay this in future (when he proved that he is a top player and competitive on highest european level), not now.

So I think you don't have to be worry that Elias will leave you soon. Maybe he will not stay the full four years, but at least 2-3 years. The decision for a good college like Gonzaga was the best he could do, and he is a smart guy and will not change his decision after some month, because there is no better option to improve his skills. He get's a lot playing time (he would not get it in Germany) on a very competitive level.

Greetings from Germany
Steffen

German
12-04-2009, 12:03 AM
Jyz is right...

It's unlikely that a german pro team offer him nearly 1 million per year. The best players in Germany's BBL receive about 700-800k US$ such as Casey Jacobsen, Ruben Boumtje Boumtje, Ricky Paulding or Julius Jenkins. These players have NBA-experience or had a good european career in strong leagues. As Jyz said, don't underestimate the level of pro-ball in Europe, even in Germany.

Elias played in a third league team (ProB) last year and had about 20 points and 10 rebounds. These are very good stats, but nothing very special in this league. There are some other american players with an average college career who reach this stats. I give you just an example:

I am supporter of a second league team in Germany's ProA, which is called Chemnitz Niners (http://www.eurobasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=GER&Team=1791). Our Pointguard Gary Johnson (http://ucfathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/johnson_gary00.html) played in the same league as Elias last year and won both matches against his team. Johnson had season stats of 20 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists und 3 steals and was named "Defender of the year" (before Elias). Now he is playing in a more competitive league (2nd...where the good teams maybe comparable with a good NCAA-Team like the Zags) and has stats of about 10 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals. He is not nearly skilled enough to play in Germany's first league BBL. A potential 20/10 player in ProB earnings are about 2000 US$ (monthly) + appartment + car. And believe me, there are many good college graduates (with about 15 points in NCAA, of course none of the best teams ;) ) who are even interested in these offers.

You have to know that most european basketball are short-term thinking and they will get NOW the best players they can get for their money...they want the best price/performance ratio. They don't pay for skills like "talented player" or "attidute to work". They don't search for franchise players, they are searching for quick success for little money. I guess in Europe we have hundreds of players which are still better than Elias (even at least 50 players in Germany...probably more). Elias had some contract offers of BBL teams because his german citizenship makes him more attractive in future (there are some rules which will implement more playing time for german players in next years), but in an interview he mentioned that he prefer to go to college (so you can also be sure that these offers where financially not so attractive as you think;) ), than sitting on the bench in Germany's BBL. And yes in many teams he would be a just a bench player...even in Germany. I think he is already one of the Top-10 german players, but an average BBL-team has 6-7 american players and the most of them are really not bad.

What makes Elias so valuable is his talent, his attitude and for us his citizenship (without any doubt he is able to be a very important player of our national team in future, especially when Nowitzki finish his career). Yes maybe in 3-5 years he can be a top european player who can receive 1 million $ per year, but teams will pay this in future (when he proved that he is a top player and competitive on highest european level), not now.

So I think you don't have to be worry that Elias will leave you soon. Maybe he will not stay the full four years, but at least 2-3 years. The decision for a good college like Gonzaga was the best he could do, and he is a smart guy and will not change his decision after some month, because there is no better option to improve his skills. He get's a lot playing time (he would not get it in Germany) on a very competitive level.

Greetings from Germany
Steffen

Definitly right!
In my opinion Harris will stay, this year, and at least next year, too , in Gonzaga.
Only think i'm not your opinion, is the playing time, he could earn in Germany, there are few teams, like Braunschweig or Ulm, he would get 20 minutes per game, I think. But these are only 2 teams, who give Germans a chance, at the moment.
But if he would play in Germany, he would have more pressure, than in the college, you can see it on the Hype about Robin Benzing. Last week some NBA-Scouts, visited the training, and a game from his team (Ratiopharm Ulm), and the local media (in Germany, in national media, Basketball hasn't nearly any importance) is focused on him at the moment.

Crazy
12-04-2009, 12:28 AM
i had to agree the 2 guys who post ebfore me, i don't think that Elias could earn that much money at this stage of his development and especially not in germany ;)

He also decides in the past to play in speyer, to have the chanche to play in a college program so i don't think he will quit it so fast but i think few had to work hard on his ability to play SF and maybe give him a perspectiv onthis position in future.

PS: Could someone explain "histrionics" in other words?

zagsdan86
12-04-2009, 12:53 AM
PS: Could someone explain "histrionics" in other words?

In this case, "histrionics" is a reference to how Austin Daye would sometimes react to calls that went against him. Daye was known to have emotional, almost disbelieving, reactions and facial expressions after fouls and other calls against him. Many considered these displays of emotion as whining or pouting.

Crazy
12-04-2009, 01:15 AM
thx a lot

MickMick
12-04-2009, 03:38 AM
When I think of this topic, it just confirms one thing in my mind.

NBA missed very, very much on Casey Calvary.

titopoet
12-04-2009, 06:36 AM
A couple of things, Harris came to GU to raise his NBA stock. Before coming to GU he was seen as a player that would not be drafted. Looking at his rise in mock drafts and profiles, mission accomplished. Harris probably will stay two years and continue to improve and hopefully rise to the first round in 2011. (and lead us to Final four or two) If that happens, GU can approach other high profile foreign players as a route to the NBA. The future will continue to look bright both for the remarkable mister Harris and the Zags and their euro-pipeline.

ZagNative
12-04-2009, 07:22 AM
This is a bit off topic, but it is relevant to the OP's comment, "incredible find by Tommy Lloyd." I had never known the details behind how Tommy came upon Elias. This fills in some of those blanks. It's from the Lewiston Tribune (http://www.lmtribune.com/print.php?id=49739) (a newspaper in a city in Idaho):
German newcomer Harris quickly proving his worth to Gonzaga
By Ryan Collingwood Of The Tribune
December 3, 2009

SPOKANE - It didn't take Gonzaga assistant coach Tommy Lloyd much of an arm tug when he got wind of a spring-heeled, 6-foot-8 German who could help fill the void in the Bulldogs' depleted frontcourt.

Lloyd, whose zealous international recruiting efforts include the signings of former Gonzaga big men Ronny Turiaf and J.P. Batista, got a phone call about another under-the-radar gem in Elias Harris.

He received the tip on a Tuesday, spoke to Harris on a Wednesday and by that Saturday afternoon, Lloyd was in Germany to get an up-close glimpse of the unknown commodity.

From there, he was sold.

"His strength and athleticism really stood out," Lloyd said. "He's such a high-energy guy, and I was impressed by the way he could control his body."

High energy indeed.

Harris' 24 points and 12 rebounds sparked the No. 17 Bulldogs in a 74-69 come-from-behind win over regional rival Washington State on Wednesday night.

Early in the first half, Harris nabbed a steal, charged down the floor and accelerated past a Washington State guard for a two-handed slam that brought the crowd of 6,000 to its feet. He put down two more explosive flushes in the second half while exhibiting touch from the foul line, going 8-for-9. This photo of Elias wasn't in that story but shows that first half dunk against WSU:


http://lh4.ggpht.com/_UkLNCxT74w4/Sxg9wKYTkHI/AAAAAAAACVg/E1E0xbFBPSg/2009-12-02%20Elias%20Harris%20WSUSR-1.jpg
"Once he passed his test to become eligible, I knew we would be in good shape," Lloyd said. "If you look at some of the past foreign kids we've signed like Batista and Turiaf, it's almost like they were our saving grace. Elias is another guy like that for us."

Harris, who played for the German national team, missed the first two weeks of school this past fall as he was competing in the European Championships, where he averaged 2.2 points and 2.3 rebounds an outing. One of his squad's losses was to Turiaf's French national team.

When Harris was extended the offer to leave his native country and play at the pinnacle of collegiate competition, he jumped at the opportunity.

"I didn't care where I was (in the United States), I wanted to play for a great program," Harris said.

Harris, who is currently averaging 14 points and eight rebounds an outing, has relished his experience thus far.

"It's unbelievable," he said.Tough duty for Tommy! He gets to take off for beautiful places like southern Germany on a couple of days' notice, on the Zags' dime, to watch basketball and bring home a trophy like Elias!

Birddog
12-04-2009, 07:45 AM
Did somebody say future? Maybe comedy

http://www.astro.com/imwiki/adb/with/thumb026153.jpg
http://www.basketball-bund.de/basketball-bund/de/nationalmannschaften/a_nationalmannschaft_herren/portraets/resource.servlet?type=3&id=50588

Maybe somebody with more internet skills can get these photos side by side.

germzag
12-04-2009, 09:23 AM
Whatever Harris does, lets hope he will not pull a Rodrigo de la Fuente move and leave mid-season to sign in Europe. I do not think he will at all. He is playing for a winner with major national exposure and is getting the opportunity to become a star. He will have a shot at the league and, unlike de la Fuente, Harris's father is American.
Still, if FC Barcelona shows up with an eight figure multi-year contract, it would be kind of tough not to think about it.

Zag 77
12-04-2009, 03:32 PM
It is sort of relevant to ask what anybody knows about his educational desires, since he is a "student-athlete." That might give some insight. If somebody is pre-med or pre-law they might be more interested in finishing college than some other "majors" I won't mention.

LynetteG
12-04-2009, 04:41 PM
It is sort of relevant to ask what anybody knows about his educational desires

Sports Management

ZAGLAWQB
12-04-2009, 04:50 PM
Born and raised there may indeed play into the bigger picture...he's not Daye as potential is so much greater...playing for pay there doesn't half compare to playing in the NBA once he will be ready...his international #s are at the infancy level....taking an offer based on potential doesn't come close to comparing with a contract once a player reaches that potential....have to believe he will be smarter and more patient than Daye's parents were...

Zagatak
12-04-2009, 06:11 PM
I heard he was going to wait until he gets his degree. I hope i heard right!!!!

matty1090
12-04-2009, 06:32 PM
It is sort of relevant to ask what anybody knows about his educational desires, since he is a "student-athlete." That might give some insight. If somebody is pre-med or pre-law they might be more interested in finishing college than some other "majors" I won't mention.

What majors are you in fact referring to? I'd like to know "majors" you consider not worth finishing.

mgadfly
12-04-2009, 08:00 PM
taking an offer based on potential doesn't come close to comparing with a contract once a player reaches that potential....have to believe he will be smarter and more patient than Daye's parents were...

He was a first round draft pick guaranteed between 2,900,000 and 3,500,000 dollars. How much more money do you think he could have earned if he'd stayed another year, and would it have made up for missing out on this amount of money?

Sometimes letting yourself be drafted on potential makes perfect sense. Ask Robert Swift, center for the Bakersfield Jam, if he plans to pay back all those millions the NBA gave him when his "potential" didn't pan out.

Zag 77
12-04-2009, 10:38 PM
OK then. Since a earlier poster said he is majoring in "Sports Management" (which might not be accurate since Harris is only a Freshman) then you tell me what that is. It seems to be listed as a major by a lot of athletes, not just at GU.

It was not around when I was in college in the 70's. Here is what I imagine as course offerings:

Towel Snapping Techniques 101
Jock Itch treatment 101 (plus "hands on" lab)
Filling Out Scorebooks 201
Scoreboard Repair 301

etc.

Do they have to write a thesis?

OK. Prove to me that this is a real academic discipline. Is this what used to be called a Phys Ed Major with a fancy new title?

Crazy
12-05-2009, 12:41 AM
in germany sports management student, is a studium in busines with a main focus on sport, when you finished it you normally try to get in management of a club or as a player agents.

Going early to the NBA or professional level in europe, is also amybe a secure move not always a bad one. As long harris succes based a lot on his athletics, also a injury could limit his potential and value - i think Daye would also consider that case, or that he can not go to a higher level and is only older in the next draft.

kitzbuel
12-05-2009, 03:32 AM
OK then. Since a earlier poster said he is majoring in "Sports Management" (which might not be accurate since Harris is only a Freshman) then you tell me what that is. It seems to be listed as a major by a lot of athletes, not just at GU.

It was not around when I was in college in the 70's. Here is what I imagine as course offerings:

Towel Snapping Techniques 101
Jock Itch treatment 101 (plus "hands on" lab)
Filling Out Scorebooks 201
Scoreboard Repair 301

etc.

Do they have to write a thesis?

OK. Prove to me that this is a real academic discipline. Is this what used to be called a Phys Ed Major with a fancy new title?
I actually think it makes sense for a kid planning on making a career in professional athletics to study Sports Management. Students who plan on being engineers get engineering degrees so why would a potential pro athlete not want to study what he will be doing professionally?

MickMick
12-05-2009, 07:04 AM
Sports Management is big business. There are vast amounts of money involved in many levels of sport.

I also believe that you can't keep a good man down. The best, innovative, hardest working street sweeper will eventually run a street sweeping crew, in time will start a street sweeping business, and eventually will sell street sweeping franchises.

From past professional experience, I would also call drive and determination a much bigger factor than natural smarts. There are many smart folks wasting their talent by choosing a path of least resistance. Then, there are people that put their heart and soul into a career path to defy all odds with respect to their education level or financial backing because they simply will not settle for anything else.

After watching Elias play and listening to his interwiews, my "feel" for his character is that of a man going places. This young man will not be denied and I absolutely believe he will be successful at any endeavor he chooses. He is soooooo focused on the task at hand.

VaBeachZAG
12-05-2009, 07:11 AM
I just love the obsession on this board about how early this player, or that player (especially Harris), will leave GU - NOT! I am not saying it isn't a legitimate topic for this board, I'm just getting tired of it. I suppose this obsession is fueled by Daye's early departure.

We have had many great players in the past who could have left early for big Euro-ball pay checks, but didn't. I think Ronny could have left a year early to the NBA, but didn't. I believe the reason they didn't leave is because they became immersed in, and identified with, the GU athletic/campus/ community culture. Ronny was widely quoted as saying there was no way he would turn his back on GU and his team mates and leave early. GU and the community embraced Ronny and he returned the love by staying all four years. GU was Ronny's home away from home. Same thing for Batista.

I don't think Daye or his parents ever saw GU as anything more than a very quick stepping stone to the NBA; thus, the very early departure from the program at a time when the program needed him most (during an apparent rebuilding year). My hope is that guys like Sacre and Harris will embrace GU the way Ronny did and give as much to GU as they are receiving.

FuManShoes
12-05-2009, 07:20 AM
I don't think Daye or his parents ever saw GU as anything more than a very quick stepping stone to the NBA; thus, the very early departure from the program at a time when the program needed him most (during an apparent rebuilding year). My hope is that guys like Sacre and Harris will embrace GU the way Ronny did and give as much to GU as they are receiving.

Boo. The ease with which folks attach dubious motives and holier-than-though declarations to early entrants will never cease to amaze me. Say you're on academic scholarship at school, studying computer science or some such thing. You get a summer internship with a software company (akin to attending NBA skills camps and workouts), and they like you so much they offer you a high-paying job -- not after you graduate, but right now. Is it selfish of you to take it? Are you abandoning the school that's paid your way? Should your classmates ridicule you as a selfish ass who took the money rather than stick around and attend Magic meetups and keggers?

School is a stepping stone, for some a small one and for some a big one. To denounce those who choose to cash in their chips sooner than later seems ... small.

MickMick
12-05-2009, 07:40 AM
Under graduate school is like boot camp. Learn the fundamentals, grow, and mature. That's it. Remain stagnant afterwards, and by the time you hit 40, technology will have long zoomed past your expertise. To stay proficient in your occupation, education is a never ending endeavor.

Relative to the rest of your life, college is a very, very brief moment in time. There are valuable life long lessons to be learned there, but in the end it is more about initiative and character. Such attributes do not require a degree.

With respect to Elias, I have not seen a better newcomer to Div 1 basketball this season. Of course this translates to a future in professional basketball. At his current level, he is a NBA player. No question in my mind on that. The big question is when.

mgadfly
12-05-2009, 10:19 AM
With respect to Elias, I have not seen a better newcomer to Div 1 basketball this season. Of course this translates to a future in professional basketball. At his current level, he is a NBA player. No question in my mind on that. The big question is when.

I'm watching Kentucky this morning and have seen three better Division 1 newcomers playing for one team. I think Harris is awesome, but...

deathchina
12-05-2009, 10:55 AM
John Wall is pretty freaking amazing.

MickMick
12-05-2009, 10:59 AM
I wouldn't swap Harris for any of them. Wall is great. He is also one and done.

TheMorrisonIsBack
12-05-2009, 10:59 AM
I wouldn't swap Harris for any of them.

To this point, I'll agree. Keep up the good fight on the UW forums, by the way Mick

MickMick
12-05-2009, 11:01 AM
To this point, I'll agree. Keep up the good fight on the UW forums, by the way Mick

Not really a fight. I just feel compelled to remind them that Gonzaga is the best program in the state. They often lose sight of that.

TheMorrisonIsBack
12-05-2009, 11:11 AM
Not really a fight. I just feel compelled to remind them that Gonzaga is the best program in the state. They often lose sight of that.

Deep down they know it's true. After all, most of their comebacks are about our conference and arena size.. You know you've won when irrelevant comebacks happen.