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Reborn
11-15-2009, 05:58 AM
What are your impressions of the Zags' first bball game of this new season?

I was very impressed with both Harris and Sacre. I think I was most worried this year about #4 position with the absence of Daye. I felt we might also miss Josh's 15+ ppg. But with a little more work they will be better than our frontcourt last year. Both of these guys really work the boards. Harris did remind me of Simpson from St. Mary's on the offensie boards, but Harris has better offensive skills.

I was very pleased with Steven's game. He's a very good passer, especially into the post. He worked very hard on D, and had a variety of shots which he made consistently. I'd like to see him average 15 this year.

Matt looked great. He reminded me of Blake Stepp last night. His defense has improved tremendously. I think it's because he lost weight.

Meech provided tremendous speed and energy, mostly on Defense. It was great to see a point guard play D the way it should be played. I don't see any improvement in his shot. That's one concern that I have. I also like the speed he brings to the offence. I like the up-tempo game they will play with Meech running the Offense. I thought GJ was very good, and will be a very good backup guard. He has more offense than Meech. I did not see his speed comparabe to Meech's.

I was very impressed with Grant Gibbs. I think he's just what I was hoping...tough. He's a very good passer with high basketball IQ. I think at this point he appears to be ahead of Arop. Manny looked kind of lost out there to me, and pretty nervous. He is a good rebounder. Gibb's defense and ball handlin skilss are much better.

I was pretty impressed with Olynyk for a Freshman. He is long and quick on his feet on defense. He also has high basketball IQ. He seems to be fitting in with the Zags very well. I like his passing and screening. The team looked good when he was in the game. I was impressed with Will Foster. Will looked trimmed down and it helps him move better. He appeared to e quicker. He will be a good back up this year I think.

I thought that for their first game they played real good. The passing was good for the most part. With Steven and Matt running the offense, we are in good hands. They are going to be a great backcout. We were getting the ball inside much better. And our BIGS ARE very good. I thought the defense playd pretty good for the first game. I loved the energy. I also liked the pace of the game. Up temp....

Final4Zag
11-15-2009, 06:36 AM
Spot on!

zaguarxj
11-15-2009, 07:09 AM
I thought I saw a lineup with Steven, Matt and GG as the 3 guards. Did anyone else notice this? Three combo-guards with no true PG.

Reborn
11-15-2009, 07:14 AM
I thought I saw a lineup with Steven, Matt and GG as the 3 guards. Did anyone else notice this? Three combo-guards with no true PG. Yes. And at times they played with 4 if you count
Arop as a guard. I think he played the 4 as much as the 3. Few does like a 4 guard lineup at times, and we no know that Manny can board, and this has earned him playing time.

Harris stats, 17 pts 7 boards in 19 minutes, is pretty impressive.

MickMick
11-15-2009, 07:19 AM
* If we pay attention to what Meech does best, we can truly appreciate him. How many Zags can you remember that can beat a full court press solo? We can argue about his scoring, but everytime he beat the press, it resulted in an easy basket by the Zags. An easy dunk by Robert Sacre puts the exclamation point on this. Plus he is all out hustle.


*Vilarino is going to get plenty of time this year. When the Zag offense becomes stagnant, I believe Few is going to insert him first. His offensive numbers were not great last night, but he certainly will take the open shot and/or take it to the hoop when the opportunity presents itself. Looks polished relative to a typical freshman.


*Will Foster is going to take time from Poling. He accounted for himself well. Looks more agile than last year.


*You can't really get down on Matt for missing shots in the first half. The team needs him to do what he did last night. Have a short memory and keep plugging away. His second half was a thing of beauty and it wouldn't have happened if he had hung his head.


* Too those that have been critical of Steven all year.....please give him some props when he plays well. Like he did last night. Scold him when you feel he isn't up to par, but please acknowledge when he plays well. Great job Steven! Your passing to the post was a big factor in this game.


*Rob is a brute. He also is a factor offensively. Remarkable improvement. Great job on working with him by the staff.


*Harris has his own thread and deservedly so. There isn't a team in the country that wouldn't want him on their roster.


Very tough to judge this team against a club like MSVU. One thing for sure. They are exactly how Matt described they would be. A tough, physical, scrappy squad. They gave great effort. Now they just need to learn and improve on their skills and knowledge.

I would also like to tip my hat to MSVU. There is no quit in that team. They gave great effort and I have a lot of repect for them. Great energy and hustle.

mgadfly
11-15-2009, 07:38 AM
I didn't really see GG do anything that really jumped out at me. I certainly think the backup guard minutes should go to GJV and possibly Arop at this point.

I was least impressed with Kelly Olynyk who played nearly as many minutes as Harris but had 2 points, 2 rebounds, and 4 fouls. In watching him, he looks like he has good skills, but he seemed to be a step behind the speed of the game. Hopefully he can adjust.

I was impressed with Foster who had 2 points, 2 rebounds, and 2 blocks in less than half the time that KO was on the court. He also changed a couple other shots and I noticed he guarded his man out to the three point line capably. He did leave a shooter once where he had "hedged" to help and the teammate "switched" rather than ran over the screen. I'm not sure if there was a switch called, but you don't leave a guy who has the ball undefended.

Bouldin, Harris, Sacre, and Gray were all great as has been pointed out by a lot of people. Harris has to stay on the court longer, I hope this isn't Austin Daye-itis where he's going to be in foul trouble every game.

But, one thing that was really important was Meech's play. With us being so young this season it will be tempting for opposing coaches to press us. Meech's ability to slice up that press (and hopefully he does the same to the first good team that tries it) will make opposing coaches a little more reluctant to try it. Plus, when teams are behind and they have to press us, we have someone who we can clear out for and let him beat them off the dribble.

TacomaZAG
11-15-2009, 07:42 AM
of this year's team, I was a little nervous. The overriding thing that I took from this game was the obvious work that Rob Sacre (Bobby as he called himself on the Mark Few show) put in over the summer. The last time I saw Rob in a game he was very mechanical, almost like he was moving in slow motion. Not so last night. Even with the reduced quality of competition, he showed a number of good post moves that no one is going to stop or block with Rob at 7'-0" and 250 lbs. He also seemed to keep the ball up and not allow himself to get stripped by a guard, which was an issue for him the last time he laced them up in a game. He has always crashed the boards hard, but did it with a lot more skill and confidence last night. Talk about a great Frosh to Soph jump, thank you Casey Calvary and thank you Rob for all the hard work. My wife's comment on Rob was a replay of LynetteG's comment from earlier (Hubba Hubba).

Harris is a monster, he and Rob are going to "own" the boards this year. Those two guys are going to be fun to watch in the paint, the inside/outside options are almost limitless, especially if Steven and Matt are hitting from beyond the arc.

I can't wait until Tuesday, when this year's version of the Zags are unleashed on the nation at MSU. Lots of growing pains to watch, like last night at times, but the effort and desire is definitely there.

Go ZAGS

seasontixholder
11-15-2009, 07:55 AM
What gladdened me was the shot selection of Harris and Sacre. There were almost no hurried or out-of-position ones to speak of (I can think only one of Robs that was a few feet out further than optimal). Unusual.

High percentage play from them is going to carry this team. Creating foul headaches for the other teams' 4s and 5s too.

The other team was undersized, but they were very quick. Bone said so specifically after their game. That our bigs could shake off the slapping and yet work so efficiently and intelligently was a good sign.

zzzjag
11-15-2009, 08:39 AM
He was very polished and knew how to get posistion on the weak side for the ball reversal.

He actually reminded me a little of Diamon Simpson inside but with a better perimeter face up game (and FT shooting!)

JohnOGU
11-15-2009, 09:08 AM
Rob and Elias look incredible. expected more from Manny and Kelly.

i know this is beating a dead horse, but damn, imagine if we still had Daye.

BobZag
11-15-2009, 09:11 AM
Much work to be done yet. This game was a rather pedestrian start but it was fun to watch the new kids and the returnees.

Props to Steven, it was a fun week for the guy.

But if the Zags press like that against Mich. St., it'll be layup drills for Izzo's crew. And way too many breakdowns on defense, on the outside and on the inside. 17 turnovers on offense. And Harris (and I suppose GJ) were the only newbies who stepped up. More will need to step up if the team expects to challenge really good teams, beginning Tuesday at East Lansing.

Zags shot over 55%. That's a bright spot. First game jitters are done. That's good.

Just like we can't take too much away from this game, we shouldn't take too much away from the next game, either. We'll know what the team is like after Maui, WSU and Wake.

DADoZAG
11-15-2009, 09:13 AM
Much work to be done yet. This game was a rather pedestrian start but it was fun to watch the new kids and the returnees.

Props to Steven, it was a fun week for the guy.

But if the Zags press like that against Mich. St., it'll be layup drills for Izzo's crew. And way too many breakdowns on defense, on the outside and on the inside. 17 turnovers on offense. And Harris (and I suppose GJ) were the only newbies who stepped up. More will need to step up if the team expects to challenge really good teams, beginning Tuesday at East Lansing.

Zags shot over 55%. That's a bright spot. First game jitters are done. That's good.

Just like we can't take too much away from this game, we shouldn't take too much away from the next game, either. We'll know what the team is like after Maui, WSU and Wake.

+1

Go ZAGS!

Postplayer57
11-15-2009, 09:49 AM
While Daye was a great player,it would seem to that before its over, Elias Harris will make a much greater contribution to Gonzaga lore. MY nick name for Harris would be "Silk".

gamagin
11-15-2009, 11:12 AM
I believe we are witnessing the evolution of a really good team from a nucleus of really good athletes.

The last two games & one scrimmage vs. Tx have shown alot of promise and alot of areas where we need to pick up the cognitive pace.

I think the MSU game is going to kick this process into another gear and from there we will know who among these future stars are evolving not only as the best practice athletes, but the best team mates under fire against arguably better athletes and teams.

What really encourages me as I watch the process is the talent is there. The maturity, experience and toughness vary, mainly because the teams, players and situations these Zags run up against vary as well. I thought for e.g., that Olynyk got knocked out of his game and was flustered by his high energy fouls and thus his game/focus Sat. night suffered. It's the mental aspect of the game. I trust he has learned more than if it had been easy.

The temperature, the challenges, the toughness and the cohesiveness are about to take a quantum leap. And only a few of our guys, Bolden, Harris & Gray, have seen the kind of sustained battering, during games, the rest need to adjust to on the fly. The learning curve will be stiff and swift.

We "think" Meech & Sacre are ready, but the only way they pin on extra stripes is to earn them on the hardwood. And we believe they will, along with the rest of the supporting cast. But I believe it's going to take time and they will have Olynyk-like nights. The question is how quickly they will adjust.

Any good team will attempt to divide and conquer. That means divide the vets from the newbies and see if they can't create the kind of chaos that causes the whole system to break down.

And every foe knows they are up against freshmen with us. Or players with little real time experience.

That means a freshman can be rattled easier than a vet.

So this test Tuesday will not so much show me which freshman deserves more minutes.

This game and for the rest of the year, the question will be which newbies can get in the game and give a starter a blow without decreasing markedly our ability to win. Or perhaps which newbie can perhaps improve on our margin. The one who can and demonstrates he can do both will evolve into more p.t.

But the question itself is moving around from what I've seen and is and will be subject to change for several more games, perhaps the whole season.

But first, before the lineups are fixed, each Zag in the second five, and several in the starting lineup, are going to have to stake a claim versus his oppponent, stay even or beat that opponent under fire while contributing to the fast-paced offensive sets that should lead to points.

What I've seen are really good athletes. What I hope to see is a really good team come together quickly if it can.

twixt and tween I believe we will see a little of both gelling and derailing with the ultimate outcome fully depending on how many can keep it together and learn and compete and beat some really excellent teams in the chaotic process of creating a new championship Zag team.

Go TEAM Zags !

whatazag
11-15-2009, 11:48 AM
I thought I saw a lineup with Steven, Matt and GG as the 3 guards. Did anyone else notice this? Three combo-guards with no true PG.

Matt and Grant are point guards. Seems like many people seem to believe that you must run a 4.3 40 to be a true PG. I don't remember Stepp or Dickau being that fast, and they seemed to do just fine. Not saying I don't want Meech out there, as obviously he brings another dimension, but MB and GG are both capable of running the offense.

tyra
11-15-2009, 12:43 PM
Thinking more about last night's game, one of the things I hope to see through the balance of the non-conference schedule, is a more solid contribution by the bench. We've been talking about this team's depth all fall but I thought the bench was spotty last night. Just not as solid as I think they will eventually need. Again, its the journey and I think they will be there come conference. And the good news is that the starting five was so very strong. I think the box score says it all except for Meech whose contributions I believe were greater than the numbers might suggest.

Larryzag
11-15-2009, 12:52 PM
I was at the game and it was the first time I have seen the team this year. Here are my first impressions.

1. I hope Harris stays for four years. He could end up being one of our best..... ever.

2. Nobody will take Steven's starting position this year. He played great.

3. GG and GJ played well and should see lots of playing time this year.

4. Arop looked lost much of the time. He needs more time before we'll see what he can do.

5. Kelly, see #4.

6. Michael Hart looks like he could be a player.

7. Andy?

JohnOGU
11-15-2009, 01:02 PM
I've heard that Elias has stated he will be here until he receives his degree...

zag67
11-15-2009, 01:10 PM
Larry, I will agree with almost all that you say and that Manny looked lost on the offensive end, but I think he did some good things on the defensive end. As example, his off side help defense was probably one of the best that I have seen at GU in a long time. He paid attention where his man was, but protected the center area. I will say that there were acouple of times that he ended up getting beat, because he was hurrying back to play his own defense and his footwork was not solid. But he shows that he has been well coached by his positioning on the defense and rebounds. IMO, I think that he will do fine before long.

GonzagasaurusFlex
11-15-2009, 01:22 PM
Thanks all for the excellent analysis....most of my thoughts on game #1 have already been shared. One thing I noticed is Zags commitment to feeding the post. I was real impressed with the entry passes and Rob and Harris' sealing off their defender so as to create openings for those passes. This was one of Harris' veteran-like, savvy skills...not to mention polished post moves....I was especially impressed by.

MickMick
11-15-2009, 01:49 PM
He was very polished and knew how to get posistion on the weak side for the ball reversal.

He actually reminded me a little of Diamon Simpson inside but with a better perimeter face up game (and FT shooting!)

What is remarkable to me is that the freshman Harris is reminding people of the senior Simpson. Simpson was an All WCC player. So is Harris.....right now.

So where is Harris' game going to be at four years from now?

Larryzag
11-15-2009, 02:05 PM
Larry, I will agree with almost all that you say and that Manny looked lost on the offensive end, but I think he did some good things on the defensive end. As example, his off side help defense was probably one of the best that I have seen at GU in a long time. He paid attention where his man was, but protected the center area. I will say that there were acouple of times that he ended up getting beat, because he was hurrying back to play his own defense and his footwork was not solid. But he shows that he has been well coached by his positioning on the defense and rebounds. IMO, I think that he will do fine before long.

Agreed. Manny had some good moments especially rebounding and defense. It will take the new guys longer to know the offense. Bouldin looked like a coach on the floor with all the directions he was giving them. At the beginning of the game Matt was showing guys where to stand on inbound plays and even during free throws. Don't get me wrong, Manny will be very good by conference time.

bigblahla
11-15-2009, 02:16 PM
I didn't really see GG do anything that really jumped out at me.

Hmmmmmmmm? So court sense, hustle, physical play, crisp passing, good D don't jump out at you? That's what I saw from Grant anyone else see anything?

Go!! Zags!!!

Larryzag
11-15-2009, 02:21 PM
Hmmmmmmmm? So court sense, hustle, physical play, crisp passing, good D don't jump out at you? That's what I saw from Grant anyone else see anything?

Go!! Zags!!!

+1!

Reborn
11-15-2009, 02:33 PM
Hmmmmmmmm? So court sense, hustle, physical play, crisp passing, good D don't jump out at you? That's what I saw from Grant anyone else see anything?

I also agree. Gibbs was solid. I don't think he had a tournover, and I didn't see his man score on him.

Birddog
11-15-2009, 03:38 PM
Hmmmmmmmm? So court sense, hustle, physical play, crisp passing, good D don't jump out at you? That's what I saw from Grant anyone else see anything?
I wondered how long it would take for someone to post something like this.
+1
I thought Gibbs had a great sense of where to be and when to be there. I'd call it court savvy.

soccerdud
11-15-2009, 04:08 PM
there were a lot of things i liked, but you guys all did a good job of summing that up-- so i'll stick to the things that concerned me:

-- turnovers. too many vs. an outmatched team
-- bench production. it felt like our offense stagnated whenever 2+ starters were sitting. we'll need to improve on this
-- first half 3-point shooting. shot too many, missed too many. luckily, it got better in the second half. we didn't settle as much and hit more.
-- lack of offensive identity. sometimes we felt like a jump shooting team, sometimes we felt like an inside-outside team, sometimes we felt like a slashing team... flexibility is good, but i don't feel we established any of them to the point where we would be comfortable forcing the issue in a "must score" situation versus a quality team. look at it this way-- 28 seconds left, down by 1 to michigan state... what do we do? just put the ball in matty's hands and isolate?

not to be negative, i love our team and what i saw... but these are the things that i think need to be improved upon in order for us to take that next step.

edit: oh, yeah-- where were the fast break points? outside of meech's steal and a couple of press breaks, i didn't feel like we ran against them as much as we could/should have.

Angelo Roncalli
11-15-2009, 04:09 PM
He was very polished and knew how to get posistion on the weak side for the ball reversal.

He actually reminded me a little of Diamon Simpson inside but with a better perimeter face up game (and FT shooting!)

I think the Simpson comment is apt...offense seems to come a little more naturally to Harris.

mgadfly
11-15-2009, 04:15 PM
Hmmmmmmmm? So court sense, hustle, physical play, crisp passing, good D don't jump out at you? That's what I saw from Grant anyone else see anything?

Go!! Zags!!!

I re-watched the game focusing on Gibbs, and I just don't see any appreciable difference between Gibbs' "court sense, hustle, physical play (yeah right), crisp passing, and good D" than other reserves. What did stand out to me was an empty stat sheet.

Gibbs may be the next Blake, but he certainly wasn't last night.

Birddog
11-15-2009, 04:24 PM
Gibbs may be the next Blake, but he certainly wasn't last night.

Now just cuz you disagree, don't go all hyperbolic.

titopoet
11-15-2009, 04:27 PM
A agree with most of what has been said, especially about Harris.
Some interesting things I saw:

The use of the 3-2 zone. I don't think I have seen GU use it and with the Few's connection with Heathcoat, I wonder if he will use the 3-2 this year. I think they are athletic enough to pull it off.
The offense was more read and react and less plays.
Weak against the press. That will change.
The starting five can compete with anyone, though I worry about Harris picking up too many cheap fouls. He needs to stay out there.

Bogozags
11-15-2009, 04:36 PM
Larry, I will agree with almost all that you say and that Manny looked lost on the offensive end, but I think he did some good things on the defensive end. As example, his off side help defense was probably one of the best that I have seen at GU in a long time. He paid attention where his man was, but protected the center area. I will say that there were acouple of times that he ended up getting beat, because he was hurrying back to play his own defense and his footwork was not solid. But he shows that he has been well coached by his positioning on the defense and rebounds. IMO, I think that he will do fine before long.

Agree completely...Manny will do just fine and expect that sooner than later, he will be difficult to guard...his foot work on base line "D" does need some work...he gave up the base line twice and I believe three point plays resulted...he is quick and skilled...just needs to develop that comfort zone...
He is as you say well coached...always getting to the middle to assist...his scoring will come...I'm excited and look forward to the challenge next Tuesday...

mgadfly
11-15-2009, 05:14 PM
Now just cuz you disagree, don't go all hyperbolic.

I retract it then... ;)

Factual:

Gibbs came in with 14:10 to go with Zags leading 15-8.
Gibbs left game with 11:06 to go with Zags leading 19-15. (Zags out-scored by 3)

During this first stretch he had a good deflection (13:58 to play) while guarding their point guard. He made a good entries to Sacre in the post (13:40 & 12:37). He made a good cut to the hoop for a bucket from Gray (12:13). He missed a switch and then played too far off his man who fortunately missed a three pointer (13:15). He let his guy get open for an entry pass when the rest of the team had denied the inbounds for 4.5 seconds (13:08).

Not a bad stretch, but he certainly made no significant positive contribution to the game. I think we would have been better served with Arop getting those minutes. And we'd certainly have been better off if last year's 6th man got those minutes.

He returns to the game with 2:58 to go. We lead 40-22.

Gibbs is the one who kept the ball alive on the play that resulted with the Olynyk alley-oop jam from Bouldin. Gibbs made a "great save" on defense, but only after the ball hit him in the chest/shoulder when he didn't have his hands up to rebound.

Half ends with GU up 45-30. Zags out-scored by 3.

Gibbs enters the second half with 17:23 to go. Zags up 49-34.
He starts off by just standing motionless an entire offensive sequence on the weakside. When the rebound comes off to his side he is still flat footed and out of position. He compounds the mistake by making a silly foul on his man who got the rebound.

He plays some good D and gets a good rebound (16:40). He beats a double team a few seconds later. On the following offensive sequence he is open for a three pointer and passes it up for a dribble drive, where he is open again but dumps the pass down to Harris who travels.

He disappears for most of the rest of the time and leaves the game with 13:44 and the game at 52-38. Zags out-scored by 1 point.

He returns with 3:46 to go and Zags up 86-60.

He misses a garbage time baseline jumper (although he was open) with 3:00 to go. He leaves the game with 2:27 and the Zags up 87-66. Zags out-scored by 5 during his last sequence on the floor.


I love Gonzaga basketball, I really liked what I saw from the team last night, but I saw very little physical play by him, I thought everybody hustled, and although his defense was solid it wasn't harassing and suffocating like Meech, Gray, or GJV's was. He wasn't physical like Arop. He needs to be more assertive and get a lot better to be more deserving of minutes than those other guys. That's all I'm saying.

bigblahla
11-15-2009, 06:34 PM
I retract it then... ;)

Factual:

Gibbs came in with 14:10 to go with Zags leading 15-8.
Gibbs left game with 11:06 to go with Zags leading 19-15. (Zags out-scored by 3)

During this first stretch he had a good deflection (13:58 to play) while guarding their point guard. He made a good entries to Sacre in the post (13:40 & 12:37). He made a good cut to the hoop for a bucket from Gray (12:13). He missed a switch and then played too far off his man who fortunately missed a three pointer (13:15). He let his guy get open for an entry pass when the rest of the team had denied the inbounds for 4.5 seconds (13:08).

Not a bad stretch, but he certainly made no significant positive contribution to the game. I think we would have been better served with Arop getting those minutes. And we'd certainly have been better off if last year's 6th man got those minutes.

He returns to the game with 2:58 to go. We lead 40-22.

Gibbs is the one who kept the ball alive on the play that resulted with the Olynyk alley-oop jam from Bouldin. Gibbs made a "great save" on defense, but only after the ball hit him in the chest/shoulder when he didn't have his hands up to rebound.

Half ends with GU up 45-30. Zags out-scored by 3.

Gibbs enters the second half with 17:23 to go. Zags up 49-34.
He starts off by just standing motionless an entire offensive sequence on the weakside. When the rebound comes off to his side he is still flat footed and out of position. He compounds the mistake by making a silly foul on his man who got the rebound.

He plays some good D and gets a good rebound (16:40). He beats a double team a few seconds later. On the following offensive sequence he is open for a three pointer and passes it up for a dribble drive, where he is open again but dumps the pass down to Harris who travels.

He disappears for most of the rest of the time and leaves the game with 13:44 and the game at 52-38. Zags out-scored by 1 point.

He returns with 3:46 to go and Zags up 86-60.

He misses a garbage time baseline jumper (although he was open) with 3:00 to go. He leaves the game with 2:27 and the Zags up 87-66. Zags out-scored by 5 during his last sequence on the floor.


I love Gonzaga basketball, I really liked what I saw from the team last night, but I saw very little physical play by him, I thought everybody hustled, and although his defense was solid it wasn't harassing and suffocating like Meech, Gray, or GJV's was. He wasn't physical like Arop. He needs to be more assertive and get a lot better to be more deserving of minutes than those other guys. That's all I'm saying.

Wow, impressive. With such a keen eye it would be interesting to know how many points Grant gave up in the first 3:04 he was on the floor? As far as not being physical watch below the waist and tell me he's not physical.


What's the word? Momentum. Grant did what he was supposed to do he performed his role. Not all can be stars he's a Mr. Fixit. I'm sure Coach and staff recognize the role Grant needs to perform to contribute the very best way he can to this years team. My bet is he gets more PT.

GO!! Zags!!!

Xin Loi 67
11-15-2009, 06:55 PM
It was sorta like when Ma lifted the old F100 off my brother Leon, lots of adrenalin at work there I'll tell ya.

MickMick
11-15-2009, 07:01 PM
Wow....Mgadfly has me inspired to watch it again. I didn't intend to becuase the game was too chaotic for me. But the gritty hustle was inspiring so maybe I will.

DVR is a wonderful thing.

Bing
11-15-2009, 07:08 PM
Mgadfly has me thinking he's the new Jazz. After one whole game in a kid's D1 career. Wow.

willandi
11-15-2009, 07:45 PM
+1!

+2

mgadfly
11-15-2009, 08:04 PM
Mgadfly has me thinking he's the new Jazz. After one whole game in a kid's D1 career. Wow.

I'm not sure what this means at all. "After one whole game in a kid's D1 career." ???

Apparently other people saw a different GG than I did last night (one night is way too small of sample to suggest that he isn't a good player, and nothing I wrote indicates otherwise). Talking about a single performance, one game, I don't think he played as well as we (a) need him to; and (b) as well as other players on the roster did.

He is a division one scholarship player that has tons of skills and he is probably a great kid with a very bright future (in basketball or whatever). But, last night I thought Arop, GJV, and Foster were all better uses of our reserve minutes.

mgadfly
11-15-2009, 08:15 PM
Wow, impressive. With such a keen eye it would be interesting to know how many points Grant gave up in the first 3:04 he was on the floor? As far as not being physical watch below the waist and tell me he's not physical.


What's the word? Momentum. Grant did what he was supposed to do he performed his role. Not all can be stars he's a Mr. Fixit. I'm sure Coach and staff recognize the role Grant needs to perform to contribute the very best way he can to this years team. My bet is he gets more PT.

GO!! Zags!!!

He was guarding Cheeks most of the time he was in and did a pretty good job of it. No argument there. Point being that when he wasn't in, Cheeks wasn't scoring either. Gibbs is a good player, but for one night at least, there were other guards on our roster playing just as good or better (at least in my opinion). [I didn't realize taking the opinion that someone who had a stat-line of 2 points, 3 rebounds, 1 turnover, 2 fouls in 11 minutes needed to improve a little before being anointed our 6th man would be so controversial. We'll see if, after this dominating performance, Few makes him the 6th man against MSU.]

bigblahla
11-15-2009, 09:07 PM
Grant may or may not come off the bench first but when he comes on the floor "HE KNOWS HIS ROLE".

He knows how the offense should run, he knows where he is supposed to be on defense HE IS A ROLE PLAYER, he subs so starters can rest and as GoZags said we don't have to worry about him when he comes in.

As far as the box score goes it will never show what Grant's value to this team is.

Pendo played out of position his whole career. Spink shouldn't have been able to do what he did. Nielson shut down people way more athletic and Floyd and Bankhead earned their PT. Grant Gibbs will have us all loving him before he leaves. He's a gamer, he's gritty, he's a Zag through and through.

Go!! Zags!!!

mgadfly
11-15-2009, 11:25 PM
Grant may or may not come off the bench first but when he comes on the floor "HE KNOWS HIS ROLE".

He knows how the offense should run, he knows where he is supposed to be on defense HE IS A ROLE PLAYER, he subs so starters can rest and as GoZags said we don't have to worry about him when he comes in.

As far as the box score goes it will never show what Grant's value to this team is.

Pendo played out of position his whole career. Spink shouldn't have been able to do what he did. Nielson shut down people way more athletic and Floyd and Bankhead earned their PT. Grant Gibbs will have us all loving him before he leaves. He's a gamer, he's gritty, he's a Zag through and through.

Go!! Zags!!!

I don't disagree.

He looked like a role player that knows his role. Not a 6th man (someone that has to do more than just not mess up). I love players like GG.

Go Zags!!!

jim77
11-16-2009, 01:27 AM
I'll comment in regards to Michigan St. I think Rob is the real deal in the middle but, I think Izzo knows he's the key guy to go after. Front him on defense and go inside at him on offense. If Rob gets into foul trouble early we could be in big trouble. Michigan ST also has the ability to blanket Bouldin and shut him down...and Gray at the same time. Michigan ST can also guard the 3 well....so where do our points come from? I believe we will need Meech to beat his man and penetrate. We've got to get past their first line of defense....we will need Rob and BIG WILL (when he's in) come out to the top of the key to free up our guards with screens. I also think Harris's scoring wil be needed as I believe he's the odd man that Mich St may have a problem accounting for. I can't over emphisize how important Meech will be against a physical and quick Spartan team.....SPEED KILLS!

As far as first game comments...I though MSVS was a pretty quick team that hustled the whole game. We were just too big/skilled for them although they probably hustled more than us. I though Manny showed good hustle. I partly agree with FLY on GG...1 game doesn't determine a players skills. I did like the fact that GG didn't looked rattled at all..in fact he looked rather relaxed. Which can be a good thing....Blake was the same. I though Harris was darn skilled with the ball in his hands but, I did see some uncertainty when he didn't have the ball.(newness more than anything) Get him the ball more is the answer! We need his scoring ASAP. Especially against STATE. Overall, it was a good first outing and a "W".....TUESDAY almost seems like an unfair test for the young lads...talk about being thrown into the fire! A victory would be INCREDIBLE! This team has the guys to get it done...it won't be easy but its possible. GO ZAGS.

Birddog
11-16-2009, 03:31 AM
DVR is a wonderful thing.
or not

FlyZag
11-16-2009, 05:36 AM
But, last night I thought Arop, GJV, and Foster were all better uses of our reserve minutes.

What did you see in Arop, GJV or Fosters stat line that stood out above GG's?

TOT-FG 3-PT REBOUNDS
## Player Name FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF TP A TO BLK S MIN
01 Arop, Mangisto...... 1-4 0-1 0-2 3 1 4 1 2 1 2 0 0 14
05 Vilarino, G.J....... 1-1 1-1 3-4 0 0 0 1 6 0 0 0 0 12
10 Gibbs, Grant........ 1-2 0-0 0-0 1 2 3 2 2 0 1 0 0 11
45 Foster, Will........ 1-2 0-0 0-0 0 2 2 0 2 0 1 2 0 8

My point is that none of them were exactly stat fillers... I saw GG show effort and hustle in his 11 mins... That doesn't show up in the stat line but does make an impression with the coaches.

cjm720
11-16-2009, 07:21 AM
-Our starting 5 can play with anyone in the country AND win.
-Harris...wow, just wow.
-Sacre...unbelievable improvement.
-When Gray took that pull-up jumper about 4 mins into the game as the shot clock expired, I knew my worries on his development were over. He played a complete game and was a stud.
-Bouldin - solid start for our leader but the alley-oop turnover was ridic.
-Meech - solid play. The spin move turnover drove me crazy.
-Olynick is going to be very good. He's basketball IQ and height/length creates mismatches that he'll be able to exploit once he's more comfortable.
-GG...played well, glad he saw some PT...very fundamentally sound.
-Foster...those blocks were just too easy.
-Need to see more of GJ and Arop and hopefully BK.

All and all I was quite impressed. The level of athelticism and the deep bench are a luxury I've not seen off of Boone Avenue. Free throws and turnovers continue to be a worry. I suspect Few will make sure to have his starters on the floor together much more against an opponent like MSU.

Go Zags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mgadfly
11-16-2009, 12:36 PM
What did you see in Arop, GJV or Fosters stat line that stood out above GG's?

TOT-FG 3-PT REBOUNDS
## Player Name FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF TP A TO BLK S MIN
01 Arop, Mangisto...... 1-4 0-1 0-2 3 1 4 1 2 1 2 0 0 14
05 Vilarino, G.J....... 1-1 1-1 3-4 0 0 0 1 6 0 0 0 0 12
10 Gibbs, Grant........ 1-2 0-0 0-0 1 2 3 2 2 0 1 0 0 11
45 Foster, Will........ 1-2 0-0 0-0 0 2 2 0 2 0 1 2 0 8

My point is that none of them were exactly stat fillers... I saw GG show effort and hustle in his 11 mins... That doesn't show up in the stat line but does make an impression with the coaches.

GG did fine. I'm not saying anybody on the bench did a whole lot better, but I thought everybody hustled and gave effort (I don't think you mean to imply that Arop, GJV, or Foster weren't hustling and giving effort). Thus, setting aside the hustling and effort portion of the equation, I thought Arop was more physical inside, keeping balls alive (although he wasn't as competent as GG on running the offensive or the fundamentals on defense), Vilarino handled the ball (something GG did not do) scored more points and played better m2m defense pressure, and Foster had 2 official blocks, but the score keeper could have just as easily have given him four (late in the game he could have been credited for 2 blocks on a single play but it was hard to tell if they were air balls because he touched them or the shooter was just so intimidated the ball didn't get anywhere near the basket. He blocked a shot in the first half where the guy tried to pull up and fade away and then caught the block, and on one of his first possessions in the first half a guy ran right into him, he held his ground and either blocked the shot or changed it enough that the four foot runner was about three feet short of the basket-that led to a fast break).

Nothing against GG who I agree looked very sound fundamentally, but he didn't give us the ball-handling that GJV gave us or the shot blocking that Foster gives us. I think Arop is a better physical type player, but I'd concede that some of his mental mistakes (failure to cut off baseline twice, seeming to not be sure where he is supposed to be at certain times) would give someone a strong argument that GG did at least as well as him.

I think some people think I'm saying GG is a "bad" player or something, and I want to be clear that I am not. The cool thing about this season is that we have a lot of options and a lot of guys fighting for those backup minutes. I think if the first game told us anything it is that the starting five is set barring injury (Meech, Gray, Bouldin, Harris, Sacre played awesome together and compliments each others skills). Now the question is who gets those backup minutes?

Starters:
Meech 26 minutes [14 min remaining]
Gray 27 minutes [13 min remaining]
Bouldin 35 minutes [5 min remaining]
Harris 25 minutes [15 min remaining]
Sacre 27 minutes [13 min remaining]

About 60 minutes for the subs... Listed in order of how many minutes they played Saturday (although KO probably played more minutes than he would have, had Harris not been in foul trouble):
If it were me:
Olynyk -- 12 minutes (backup PF)
Arop
GJV -- 14 minutes (backup PG)
Gibbs
Foster -- 12 minutes (backup C)
Poling -- 4 minutes (backup PF/C)
Hart
Kong

That leaves 18 minutes for Arop, Gibbs, and Kong. I'm not sure how many minutes Kong will demand, but between Arop and Gibbs, based on one game's performance, I'd give Arop 10 minutes and Gibbs 8 minutes. I'd also point out that in the second half Arop got the majority of the minutes between Gibbs and Arop. I'm not saying he is a better player (certainly GG knows the system better and looked more fundamentally sound) but what I am saying is that Arop seems to give us extra size and athleticism on the wing (SF) position.

None of them are bad players, but at some point Few is going to reduce this to an 8 and maybe 9 man rotation: Meech, Gray, Bouldin, Harris, Sacre, Vilarino (only true backup point), probably Kelly O, and either Arop or Gibbs and maybe Kong. Somebody good is going to be left out of the meaningful minutes category.

Just_An_Old_Zag
11-16-2009, 08:58 PM
I am not quite sure what to take from the MSVU game....

Which reminds me of an Old(well I guess they are all Old) episode of M*A*S*H*...where Hawkeye tells Radar,when he doesnt know what to say to this young nurse he is smitten with(who is a classical music lover) he should just say "ahhhh Bach..."

I don't know what to say about this team yet( but I am smitten with them)..it is cold and windy here but in a week ...my family and I will know what to say...

...ahhh Maui...

We all know MSU has "Magic" in their past...but come midnight tomorrow maybe the slipper will still fit and the magic will be with the Zags...

Forgive me if i have stolen this from someone...but i think my new catch phrase will be...If you didnt go Gonzaga...you zig'ed when you should have ZAG'ed