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View Full Version : Why so little of Poling and Arop?



tyra
11-14-2009, 06:44 PM
I l-o-v-e-d tonight's game on several levels. I was curious, however, as to why Poling virtually didn't play and Manny fairly little. Anyone have any knowledge or theories?

BobZag
11-14-2009, 06:49 PM
Much is determined in practices that none of us see.

btzag
11-14-2009, 06:54 PM
I would echo that post... My only thought was that Olynyk has outperformed Poling at the 4 and Gibbs is ahead of Arop at the wing backup. After all there are only so many minutes and somebody has to sit and keep in mind that Kong is not even a factor yet!

This year should be an interesting challenge for the Zag staff. So much talent, so few minutes, but they need to keep the team together and happy. Really another RS would be have been great...

kylasdad
11-14-2009, 07:01 PM
I wondered the same thing, especially about poling.

MickMick
11-14-2009, 08:11 PM
I was surprised about Andy.

Ezag
11-14-2009, 08:21 PM
We have too many good guys and though that is not necessarily a problem, it makes it tough to crack the rotation

roxdoc
11-14-2009, 08:40 PM
From the talk of the last month or so Andy is described as a 5, not a 4. So no conflict with Kelly. Was it always Foster when Sacre was out?

LAZAGFAN11
11-14-2009, 08:46 PM
Another interesting note: not one single minute was played by Bol Kong.

MickMick
11-14-2009, 08:46 PM
From the talk of the last month or so Andy is described as a 5, not a 4. So no conflict with Kelly. Was it always Foster when Sacre was out?

Good point. Few may be rewarding his senior for four years of good service.

I will no longer feel much concern when Will is on the floor. I thought he played well enough to possibly be a better option than Andy right now anyway. Will made some nice plays tonight.

Note to the team:

When you pass it to Will, you need to get the ball up a little higher than you are accustomed to. Don't make the big guy handle the ball down at the waist line where the shorter players can take easy swipes at it.

ID ZAGFAN
11-14-2009, 09:00 PM
Another interesting note: not one single minute was played by Bol Kong.

Bol was on the bench in street clothes with Stockton and Dower. :confused: Any ideas?

What I don't get--what's up with Michael Hart? :confused:

I hadn't heard a word about him for so long that when he wasn't redshirted I thought maybe he had quit the team. So I was shocked to see him come into the game tonight--I thought walk on's were usually redshirted.

Anyone have any inside info?

ID ZAGFAN

tyra
11-14-2009, 09:40 PM
Andrew Sorenson was a walk-on who was awarded a schollie well into his last year for the first time. Walk-ons simply don't have schollies. Hart and Chris P-M are both non-schollie walk ons I believe.

sittingon50
11-14-2009, 09:40 PM
Hart redshirted last year.

ID ZAGFAN
11-14-2009, 10:11 PM
Hart redshirted last year.

I could have sworn I saw a post just after I joined the board about Stockton and Hart redshirting this year. Call it a senior moment! :D

I remembered Gibbs and Poling redshirting last year, but did not remember Hart.

ID ZAGFAN

Kiddwell
11-14-2009, 10:31 PM
+1 on missing Poling.

However Grant Gibbs showed a nice presence for a RS freshman: nice bunny, dove for a ball, hustled on defense. He sort of resembles Matty...about three years ago.

Other first impressions: (1) KO looks like a bigger, more athletic Mallon. By WCC time, he's going to be all right. (2) Manny didn't do a lot (frosh jitters), but he sure looked athletic. Manny, too, by WCC time should be all right. Maybe all right and a half.

:]

JLGutrocks
11-14-2009, 11:05 PM
Few may also have good reasons, as in the past, for not giving film on all his weapons.

bartruff1
11-15-2009, 04:07 AM
GeeJay is going to play...

seasontixholder
11-15-2009, 04:58 AM
1. GG's early insertion seems to have been the result of frustration with inability to feed the bigs. He came in and immediately had a couple of nice assists. He also was part of the energy run that produced the large score gap. Heady play was rewarded, and Few undoubtedly sees the same in practices.

2. Manny seemed to be in the thinking stage now, adapting to the system. Rather than manic play, he is in the process learning what this coaching staff wants. There was constant interaction with the bench. The result is that he seemed a little bit forced and unnatural. Time will take care of that. He showed flashes of his strengths.

3. The other team didn't give up, and actually provided some good lessons on how to penetrate and shoot against the Zags. Penetration is still a major vulnerability, especially once Sacre sits down.

4. In the half court, Meech didn't seem to provide value-added play. It's still early, though. This was mid-November ball, and the game was a pretty decent outing, all things considered.

KSTATEZAG
11-15-2009, 05:07 AM
Funny...I though Meech was an absolute catalyst last night. I think even Jazz would agree. Lots of value added plays aren't reflected in a box score.

Other thought: Looks like we're searching for an identity on offense. I can't remember the last time that was the case.

We're not a jump shooting team. We're not a slashing team. The guards aren't looking to feed the post. What's the identity?

seasontixholder
11-15-2009, 05:19 AM
It seems that Few expects Sacre and Harris to be the first and second options. And then the 3rd and 4th after that. After MVS adjusted to some early buckets, our 1-3s began shooting ineffectively from the outside without much effort being made to follow orders.

Don't get me wrong about Meech. He was outstanding on D and in the open floor. Some of his moves around and through the defenders were incredible. And he protected the ball. But early on, he was not one of the half-court playmakers. (Those are Bouldin, Olynyk, and - last night - Gibbs.) I was responding to the thread question, and the answer - imo - was that others were not doing what Few wanted. Grant followed orders.

Others around me felt the same way.

MickMick
11-15-2009, 05:20 AM
MVSU is just too chaotic too pass judment on anybody. It must have been very frustrating for the Zags to apply what they have been practicing against an athletic team that plays school yard ball and throws up prayer shots from everywhere.

seasontixholder
11-15-2009, 05:48 AM
MVS was typical of college teams that don't have elite bigs. They kept doing what their game plan was: penetrating and finding guys in the corners. Over and over and over and over. There was method to their "madness." In the late second half stretch, they were hotter than hades. What they couldn't compensate for was 12-17 fg, 11-15 ft, and the fouls delivered to their bigs by Sacre-Harris combo.

zaguarxj
11-15-2009, 06:53 AM
Arop played 14 minutes. Is anyone really expecting him to play more than that on a regular basis as a freshman? Is he going to take minutes from Steven Gray, who played a fantastic game last night or Matt, the senior leader of the team?

tyra
11-15-2009, 07:43 AM
Point taken, Zaguarxj, about Manny's minutes. He played more than I thought when I went back and checked the boxscore. I guess coming off playing 21 minutes in the exhibition game (with his 12 boards) . . . And, too, I thought his 14 minutes were pretty quiet. I still think there will be plenty of games this year where he has a big impact.

mgadfly
11-15-2009, 07:57 AM
1. GG's early insertion seems to have been the result of frustration with inability to feed the bigs. He came in and immediately had a couple of nice assists. He also was part of the energy run that produced the large score gap. Heady play was rewarded, and Few undoubtedly sees the same in practices.


GG had zero assists. Few may have seen it in practice, but GG and KO are my biggest concerns after last night's game. They look like they may end up part of a seven or eight man rotation, and I don't think either of them played close to what Micah Downs brought from the bench last year. If we are going to be good this year, those two need to do more than they showed last night.

THAT SAID, THEY BOTH LOOK LIKE THEY HAVE GOOD POTENTIAL AND WERE PLAYING IN THEIR FIRST REAL GAMES. So we shouldn't be too quick to judge.

GG/KO 4 points, 5 rebounds, 2-5 FG, 1 to, 6 fouls, 28 minutes

DADoZAG
11-15-2009, 08:05 AM
THAT SAID, THEY BOTH LOOK LIKE THEY HAVE GOOD POTENTIAL AND WERE PLAYING IN THEIR FIRST REAL GAMES. So we shouldn't be too quick to judge.

Stay calm, have patience.

Breath in... breath out... breath in... breath out...

Watch each game, watch the growth.

It will be a long 3 days...

Go ZAGS!

mgadfly
11-15-2009, 08:13 AM
Stay calm, have patience.

Breath in... breath out... breath in... breath out...

Watch each game, watch the growth.

It will be a long 3 days...

Go ZAGS!

I'm calm... I just wanted to bold the part about not judging them too quick so that no one takes my critical comment of them the wrong way.

DADoZAG
11-15-2009, 08:54 AM
I'm calm... I just wanted to bold the part about not judging them too quick so that no one takes my critical comment of them the wrong way.

My bad mgadfly, I was agreeing with your statement but didn't make that clear. I had to take a week off from this board so that I could sleep at night, lost some of the knack of posting clearly.

There is a ways to go with the youngins', but we will be very happy with the outcome.

The world will see a glimpse on Tuesday, and the talking heads will start to wonder. By the 26th we will all have an additional blessing to give thanks for.

Of course, this is all just my opinion about the upper half of the glass.

Go ZAGS!

zag67
11-15-2009, 09:05 AM
Also when you look at the new players (especially), watch what they are bringing to the table with their defense. Remember I think that I have heard multiple times that the coaches think that the defense is ahead of some years, but the offense is way behind. With that many new players, they need time to start playing reactively, rather than thinking and then acting. This is to be expected and that is another reason to enjoy the positives and watch them grow.

I thought that they played hard and were in the other teams face all night at the defensive end. I thought that they would get more rebounds, but that will come. Their hustle was there. I was also happy with the way that they kept working to get the ball inside. I think that our bigs are going to have some large numbers against certain teams. Also by doing that the outside shots then started to be more open.

JPtheBeasta
11-15-2009, 09:26 AM
Also when you look at the new players (especially), watch what they are bringing to the table with their defense. Remember I think that I have heard multiple times that the coaches think that the defense is ahead of some years, but the offense is way behind. With that many new players, they need time to start playing reactively, rather than thinking and then acting. This is to be expected and that is another reason to enjoy the positives and watch them grow.

I thought that they played hard and were in the other teams face all night at the defensive end. I thought that they would get more rebounds, but that will come. Their hustle was there. I was also happy with the way that they kept working to get the ball inside. I think that our bigs are going to have some large numbers against certain teams. Also by doing that the outside shots then started to be more open.

+1

I liked that we pressured a lot and played some good man-to-man. It will give Izzo something to game plan for. Even if GU doesn't implement it in the next game (although I wouldn't mind seeing it), Michigan St. will have to spend time practicing against something other than the zone for Tuesday.

webspinnre
11-15-2009, 01:43 PM
I don't think either of them played close to what Micah Downs brought from the bench last year.



Given that they're freshman and Micah was a senior, I think that's rather much to be hoping for.

Bogozags
11-15-2009, 04:17 PM
[QUOTE=mgadfly;479601]GG had zero assists. Few may have seen it in practice, but GG and KO are my biggest concerns after last night's game. They look like they may end up part of a seven or eight man rotation, and I don't think either of them played close to what Micah Downs brought from the bench last year.


Micah did a great job last year and he had 2.5 years more experience then our two freshman...I agree that Coach Few will expect more from them over the season but I think they did pretty well considering this was their first game...more game time will provide the experience they need...it will be interesting to see how they do against MSU...they might even do better as MSU is more traditional...

hooter73
11-16-2009, 08:16 AM
comparisons aside, 14 out of 90 bench points is not good. It will take time but there needs to be at least one if not two or three bench players that can get 7-12 points per game, every game.