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View Full Version : Bring on the Neg. Rep but.....



pbriz
11-10-2009, 08:29 AM
According to the report on the scrimmage Sacre had 26 pts, Elias had 22, Matt had 15, and Gray had atleast 9. This adds up to 72 points and according to Bob's report Sacre had 28 points so that would account for all the points scored (74).

Was this really the case that only those four players scored? Or was there just a mishap in the scoring?

Just curious.

BobZag
11-10-2009, 08:42 AM
It's all unofficial per NCAA rules, so it is likely not exact and contains some mistakes. Below are the NCAA rules regarding it.



17.3.5.3 Annual Exemptions

The following basketball contests each year may be exempted from a member institution's maximum number of contests:

....

(h) Practice Scrimmage. An informal practice scrimmage with outside competition, provided it is conducted in privacy and without publicity or official scoring. Individuals other than athletics department staff members and those necessary to conduct a basketball practice scrimmage against outside competition may not be present during such a scrimmage. The institution shall ensure that the scrimmage is free from public view. No class time shall be missed by basketball student-athletes in conjunction with such a scrimmage, including all associated activities (e.g., travel, pregame and postgame activities). An institution may exempt two such practice scrimmages during any year in which it does not use the exemption set forth in Bylaw 17.3.5.3-(g), or it may exempt one such practice scrimmage and one exhibition contest against a non-NCAA Division I four-year collegiate institution each year.

webspinnre
11-10-2009, 08:43 AM
It sounded like they played 3 halves, with only the last two counting in the overall score, but stats being kept individually for all 3.

pbriz
11-10-2009, 08:44 AM
It sounded like they played 3 halves, with only the last two counting in the overall score, but stats being kept individually for all 3.

That's a good point, total points must have been taken into account for all three halves and not just the first two that were counted in the score.

BobZag
11-10-2009, 09:05 AM
I'm not sure but I think the first two halves counted. The third "half" was for players who didn't play much in the first two halves, I think.

webspinnre
11-10-2009, 09:13 AM
I'm not sure but I think the first two halves counted. The third "half" was for players who didn't play much in the first two halves, I think.

Fair enough, though the basic point stands. Basically three halves were played, allowing all players to get more minutes than they might otherwise have gotten, thus leading to a total combined score higher than the mid 70s score reported.

BobZag
11-10-2009, 09:15 AM
True.

Baldwinzag
11-10-2009, 09:19 AM
According to the report on the scrimmage Sacre had 26 pts, Elias had 22, Matt had 15, and Gray had atleast 9. This adds up to 72 points and according to Bob's report Sacre had 28 points so that would account for all the points scored (74).

Very perceptive pbriz. I'm not sure many, myself included, noticed the total score accounts for only (4) players scoring. That would mean Manny, Dower, Olynyk, Poling, etc didn't account for one basket vs Texas. Since this is highly unlikely, I'm sure the stats/pts were an accumulation from all three halves. I'm sure the 77-74 was the score after the first two halves and total points were provided based on all three halves. Kind of misleading, but still a positive outcome for these players, nonetheless.

However, I feel the scrimmage hype and perforance against Texas has been blown out of proportion, IMO. The more I preview this upcoming season, I realize there were numerous exhibition games featuring Top-25 teams that were really close as well...

For example, UCLA beat Concordia University by only 1 point at home( Portland beat the same Concordia team this year by 30+ pts). Vanderbilt, while an underrated team, spanked #4 North Carolina by close to 20 points in their "closed" scrimmage. #25 Syracuse lost to LeMoyne at home. #2 Michigan St played horribly and just escaped Grand Valley State last night in an exhibition game at home. St. Mary's beat #13 Washington in their scrimmage, and Davidson played Texas pretty tough as well according to Wildcat players, etc. These games are happening all over the country.

Did Gonzaga play great and match the level of play vs Texas? Or was this young, inexperienced Zags team just another LeMoyne or Concordia on that particular day? I know this was asked in an earlier thread, but I think its a good point as we still need to 'wait and see' with this team.

I've watched young, talented GU players in scrimmage and/or pick-up games never miss a shot. P-Mac was one of them during my time at school. However, the moment they were under the lights and in a pressure situation vs equally talented player, they airballed those same shots.

I am willing to be patient and watch them develop as a team and as individuals this seasons. I agree this team has unlimited potential and tremendously talented, but hype is just hype, yet for some reason we love to create it i.e. Bol Kong. We have all the reasons to be excited, but talking about F4's and being ranked as a Top-10 team is really unfair, IMO. This team is primarily frosh/soph's. There isn't a program in the country who is better after losing 4 Starters, not even North Carolina.

BobZag
11-10-2009, 09:34 AM
Good points, Baldwin. The Concordia that played UCLA was a different Concordia that played Portland, though. For some reason, there are lots of Concordias. Must've been a popular guy. :)

Eager to see what the Zags REALLY have Nov. 14, 17, 20, 23-24-25.

FlyZag
11-10-2009, 09:36 AM
(Portland beat the same Concordia team this year by 30+ pts).



It was a different Concordia

FlyZag
11-10-2009, 10:04 AM
sorry... beat me to it Bob!

But yes good points. I think it's easy to get excited about our team... But common sense tells us to keep our emotions in check and let things play out.

jake
11-10-2009, 12:10 PM
I agree with Baldwin. I don't see any negatives to take from the scrimmage results, but I think the magnitude of the positives is still up in the air. These closed scrimmages are very, very valuable, but they are not real games (even if parts are intended to simulate that). By necessity coaches, players, and teams are going to work on some things in a closed scrimmage that are different than what they'd do in a live, regular season game against the same team. Again, I am nothing but encouraged by the reports, but unlike some, I'm not ready to annoint us as a top-10 team, based on the result of a closed door scrimmage.

OZZY
11-10-2009, 01:22 PM
Concordia means "one in the spirit" and is a popular name for Lutheran institutions, I went to a Concordia College (now University College) in Edmonton.

WallaWallaZag
11-10-2009, 10:36 PM
people also need to realize that different coaches approach scrimmages in different manners...some treat them more like a real game while some treat them as more experimental. some coaches like to hold back or play their inexperienced guys more while some go all out. you also need to realize that for some of the lower tier teams these scrimmages are like their super bowl, while their bcs counterparts are treating it like a trumped up practice. how individual players perform can be an indicator of what is to come, but probably not the overall team performance and definitely not the final score.

titopoet
11-11-2009, 06:20 AM
Good points, Baldwin. The Concordia that played UCLA was a different Concordia that played Portland, though. For some reason, there are lots of Concordias. Must've been a popular guy. :)


Concordia means peace or harmony. It is a popular name for Lutheran institutions, much like St Mary for Catholics.

On early season scrimmages, they can be an indicator. As UCLA is running into so many problems with injuries, the close win may just mean a reshuffling in over compensating for the injuries and guys not knowing their new roles. Something that can be corrected. The Udub-St Mary may indicate a bigger problem for the Huskies, the lack of frontcourt presence. If they have no inside for an outside-inside game, it will make for a long up and down season. (I wonder if Samhan, without Brockman, went to town on that glaring weakness of UW. Monroe may have a double double by halftime. Once exposed, will the no-frontcourt Huskies be this years Notre Dame?) In GU case, it is how the frontcourt performed and gained confidence.

Rick Barnes loves the close scrimmages because it does push his teams with better comp than how others bring D2 team to destroy for fans delight. While these scrimmages are not reason to think GU is the now number one in the country, it is also not a reason to invalidate the good things either. The goal that both teams came into the scrimmage is to get better. Sacre has gained confidence. Harris is better defining his roll. Few is learning his team.

Rick Barnes is right in playing these scrimmages as they do more to build a team.

NotoriousZ
11-11-2009, 07:18 AM
...The Udub-St Mary may indicate a bigger problem for the Huskies, the lack of frontcourt presence. If they have no inside for an outside-inside game, it will make for a long up and down season. (I wonder if Samhan, without Brockman, went to town on that glaring weakness of UW. Monroe may have a double double by halftime. Once exposed, will the no-frontcourt Huskies be this years Notre Dame?)...

I read this in my ESPN magazine college preview eddition and it made me laugh (I don't have a link, I think it's just in the magazine):

"Washington's up-tempo game last season was built on its ability to own the glass: The Huskies were sixth in D1 in rebounding margin. But that was mostly because of al-time-leading rebounder Jon Brockman, and he has graduated. "We'll have to do it by committee this year," says coach Lorenzo Romar. Chairing it will be Matthew Bryan-Amaning, a 6'9" junior who was third on the team with 4.0 rpg. Sounds like one of those do-nothing committees."

:roll:

Reborn
11-11-2009, 07:23 AM
Did Gonzaga play great and match the level of play vs Texas? Or was this young, inexperienced Zags team just another LeMoyne or Concordia on that particular day? I know this was asked in an earlier thread, but I think its a good point as we still need to 'wait and see' with this team.

I know one thing. Mark Few seemed very pleased with how the Zags played. From my vantage point very happy and even a little surprised I think. Those of you who prefer to continue to doubt the quality of the players on this team, go ahead and continue because there will alway be doubting Thomas' in every fan base. It's just the way it is. I watched the Mark Few show last night, and he had so much praise for Sacre, and pretty high praise for Olynyk. That is very good news to me. I too feel Olynyk is going to have a good year. The kid is talented, I think more than Daye, and a much better mind which will help him a lot.

Anyway, the doubting will soon be over.