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View Full Version : So who is going to be RS this season?



zagsmyboys
11-03-2009, 08:20 AM
I watched the game last night, and for their first game together, they did very well!! I am having a hard time trying to find out who they are going to Red Shirt this season. From what I saw, we have a deep bench! Please let me know your thoughts!!

GO ZAGS!!!!!!!!

NEC26
11-03-2009, 08:38 AM
I think the player with the most to gain from a redshirt is Kelly but there is no doubt he could contribute this year too. Giving him a year would let him grow into the frame he has and really help him out in the long run. Its between him and Dower I think. I just think Dower has the build right now but both would contribute on the court this year there just isn't enough minutes for all.

zagsmyboys
11-03-2009, 08:44 AM
Its so hard to choose....they all have great contributions to give to the team! I am pretty sure that David Stockton will R:confused: ed Shirt only for the simple fact of growth. He did really well in the scrimage but didnt see much last night. When will we actually see who is Red Shirted?

MickMick
11-03-2009, 08:46 AM
Vilarino is definitely good enough to contribute immediately, but in the interest of securing two seasons of starting at point guard he wouldn't be a bad choice.

The Zags are guard heavy right now and Grant has used his RS up.

NEC26
11-03-2009, 08:48 AM
Don't think Vilarino will redshirt he is too good. Stockton definitely will. I really don't see him pushing for playing time as long as Meech and Vilarino are here either.

sittingon50
11-03-2009, 08:52 AM
I had the same conversation with someone last night, Mick. GJ looked much better last night than he did in the scrimmage & could easily play this year but why not RS him (Matt, Steven & David could all play point behind Meech)?

Dower really impressed. He has a real nose for the ball & as someone mentioned about Arop in another thread, I think Sam will be a real stat stuffer. Kelly is ready, but I think at this point Sam helps in more ways.

Kiddwell
11-03-2009, 09:19 AM
Freshman/RS freshman PF's (4's) = Poling, Harris (3/4), Dower, and Olynyk (3/4). Choose this year's likely redshirt from them (save for Poling).

(Kiddwell hopes GJ redshirts too in order to put another year between him and Meech.)

:]

memorial80
11-03-2009, 09:27 AM
GJ will never Redshirt.

He has the rare ability to get anywhere he wants to on the court against even elite guys and that is an attribute that is in very short supply on this team.

The guys you mentioned could all play the position behind Meech and do a good job on the offensive end of the court against most teams. But defensively they would struggle against guys with speed.

GJ can learn a bunch from Meech. Meech as a lot of attributes that GJ is not currently as far along as he is. But, GJ has elite upside. Once his knowledge and other intangibles catch up with speed and athleticism he will not play behind anyone on this team past this year... The fallacy that he will be a back-up here for 3 yrs is off base... Never gonna happen.




I had the same conversation with someone last night, Mick. GJ looked much better last night than he did in the scrimmage & could easily play this year but why not RS him (Matt, Steven & David could all play point behind Meech)?

Dower really impressed. He has a real nose for the ball & as someone mentioned about Arop in another thread, I think Sam will be a real stat stuffer. Kelly is ready, but I think at this point Sam helps in more ways.

willandi
11-03-2009, 09:46 AM
So nobody is going to redshirt, and they will all start every game. We will have to get a waiver from the NCAA to start all 13 players, at least this is what I getfrom the comments.

Personally, I think that Stockton will, and I expect Kelly will. I think GJ should, he would be better off for it, an extra year as the number 1 point, unless he unseats Meech this year, but I don't see that.

CaliforniaZaggin'
11-03-2009, 09:51 AM
Here was an earlier thread discussing whether Sam will/should redshirt. According to a fairly recent facebook post from Sam, it appears it might happen.

http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=22963&highlight=dower+facebook

Angelo Roncalli
11-03-2009, 09:56 AM
David Stockton will redshirt. Every walk-on I can think of in the last 15 years has redshirted. Richard Fox said last night during the radio broadcast he expects that David will redshirt.

As to others...Saturday may go a long way in determining who, if anybody, redshirts.

DADoZAG
11-03-2009, 09:59 AM
So nobody is going to redshirt, and they will all start every game. We will have to get a waiver from the NCAA to start all 13 players, at least this is what I getfrom the comments.

Since we're talking about the NCAA...

Is there any rule that a senior can't redshirt? It seems that the player who would most benefit from another year...

...is Will Foster. I love him, he's giving it his all, and he made a few nice plays last night. But, doesn't the team gain more from having every other big available?

If not Will, then I would agree with Dower. Sam made several nice plays last night, but he also looked lost a couple of times, nearly throwing the ball back over half court, and his outside shot is still… labored.

Again, I don't envy Few.

Go ZAGS!

BustaBucket.com
11-03-2009, 10:04 AM
Voting on the red shirt question going on here:

http://www.afewgoodzags.com/2009-articles/november/the-redshirt-question.html

zagsmyboys
11-03-2009, 10:21 AM
I love the link Busta!! Thanks..just addeed it to my favorites!!;)

zzzjag
11-03-2009, 10:25 AM
the blog really broke down the roster and put into perspective how many players are vying to be in 'the rotation'.

Funny quote above re 13 starters.

side note, Will Foster may end up with the least amount of career minutes in a 4 year scholarship career. Everyone wants to see the big man break out this and every season.

BroncoZAG615
11-03-2009, 10:32 AM
Remember how good Andy was last season in Gonzaga's exhibition game? Everyone was raving about his interior play and thought he could go right away but he sat out, matured, and looks great for this season. I expect the same for Sam Dower and probably Kelly. I expect one of them to suit up every game just in case of injury or they need one of them but you can bet that Few will want to redshirt them as they have so much potential that it'd be silly to waste a year of eligibility for them this season.

GJ will not redshirt. He was very impressive last night.

Just like two weeks ago when we discussed this, the viable candidates are Sam and Kelly. I think we'd all love to see both but definitely at least one.

BustaBucket.com
11-03-2009, 10:40 AM
I love the link Busta!! Thanks..just addeed it to my favorites!!;)

Thanks, they are friends of the blog. We are all Zag alumni. Keep that blog in mind, it's just starting out but has a lot of good basketball minds involved.

titopoet
11-03-2009, 10:59 AM
Drove back from Seattle last night (another appointment at Childrens Hospital for our Baby, looks like surgery) (http://www.life-and-faith.org), so I didn't get to see the game and only listen to it 1510. Richard Fox was talking that it would come down to either Kelly or Sam and he even suggested GJ. He made the claim the GJ need more time to learn how to run the team. I didn't see the game.
Is that right? Again, I did not get to see the game just the play by play on 1510. The
I hope not as have two guards who have an extra gear is such bonus.

75Zag
11-03-2009, 11:04 AM
After reading posts on various threads from last night I think it is a good thing that GU only has one head coach and that we don't allow decisions by fan vote or whatever. Elite teams don't play 10 or 11 player rotations and many play only 6 or 7 (maybe 8) players except when dealing with injuries (or during garbage time).

Few is going to earn his money this year by managing this young group of eager players. My expectations are still fairly limited for this season, but it should be fun to watch the Bulldogs no matter what happens.

Should we expect any objective information from the Texas scrimmage, or just the usual post-game coaches mutual love fest? I would love to know whether Sacre can sustain the type of play he demonstrated last night against the Texas front line. If he can, my expectations for the season will start to rise. I guess we will see him in the Michigan State game and be able to judge for ourselves whether Robert has reached elite center status.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

PS - I will be shocked if GJ redshirts. For him to come from an elite BCS program at UK and then agree to redshirt for a WCC school seems absurd, but hey, what do I know!

CDC84
11-03-2009, 11:12 AM
I think there is a key difference between Poling's redshirt decision and what will be taking place with Olynyk and Dower. With Poling, I just knew that he really, really needed to redshirt. There wasn't any question in my mind. He had to. He didn't have the physical profile to withstand the beating underneath. While Kelly and Sam clearly could use a redshirt to bulk themselves up, I feel either guy could make a nice contribution to this year's team. In other words, this is really more about a numbers game than anything else. Someone is likely going to have to redshirt because there just isn't enough PT available. As some people have been saying in this thread, guys like Sam and Kelly have such upside that you really don't want to waste their eligibility.

I also feel Bol Kong plays a part in this redshirt decision in an indirect way. I don't expect much from Bol at the start, but if he gets better and better come WCC time, then perhaps it makes more sense to redshirt Kelly due to the amount of wings that Gonzaga has. On the other hand, if Bol is going to need a whole year to get it going, then that has to be considered.

It's a tough decision, but that's why Few makes the big bucks.

dnj116
11-03-2009, 11:20 AM
I think what will happen is something of a mathematical breakdown of minutes. Right now you have six freshman (including Kong) who could potentially be redshirted, and remember that you still have Polling and Gibbs making eight total freshman. If what I am hearing is correct (and we really never know) we have cooled off our recruiting for the the class of 2010. By redshirting 2 or even 3 of these six, you stagger their years and are not left rebuilding four years from now. So at MINIMUM I believe two of them should be redshirted:
GJ Vilarino- This kid has talent, there is no denying this. He will likely not redshirt and can contribute immediately this year. However, I see the argument that some on this board are making, that by him redshirting, you stagger a year between him and Meech so as to make it a more evenly balanced team (remember that we were looking at point guards for the class of 2010 before he committed late...also family members should not take what is written on this board too seriously, we're merely speculating...)

Sam Dower-- This kid proved he could play last night. 15 points with that left handed shot made me very excited for his potential. However, I believe he should redshirt because by him adding strength for a year and learning the system, the TEAM would benefit by not wasting a year of his eligability (i.e. Hytevelt, Polling, etc)

Kelly Olynyk-- Again, like Dower, Kelly proved he could flat out play last night, and even on a sprained ankle. But similarly to Dower, although he could contribute this year, I believe his career would be better suited to redshirt by giving him a year to fill out.

Bol Kong-- Potential for (medical) redshirt? Without knowing how good he is, or how serious his injury is, he remains a possibility...

Manny Arop--Proved he is a stud last night and no way does he redshirt. LOVED his energy and drive.

Elias Harris--He started last night. Enough said.

Colbyspapa
11-03-2009, 11:24 AM
Stockton, Olnyk

That is it. Dower is needed as it appears the staff doesn't have full confidence that Will is their #1 backup for the post position. You have to have at least 4 people to play the 4 and the 5 but 5 people is preferred. Harris, Sacre, Dower, Poling, and Foster. Those are our natural front court players. If one is hurt, we will need the 5th post.

Kong, Arop are both undersized so they will play the 2 and the 3. The PT on the 2 and the 3 is dominated by Matt and Steven Gray.

The posters on this board are forgetting how good Gray is. He started as a freshman for us. He came off the bench last year because Micah was too good to sit but he still played 20 mpg +.

The backup minutes this year will go to GJ, Arop, Kong. That means it is going to be hard for Grant to get on the court.

GJ will not redshirt. He could have played anywhere and in my opinion could be a better guard right now than Meech. (this is not a slam on Meech, but a description of GJ). Once he learns the offfense, we will see this lineup on the floor in pushing situations.

Meech
GJ
Gray
Bouldin
Sacre

It will be fast and furious.

MDABE80
11-03-2009, 11:35 AM
I'd like to keep GJ forever! He's got that extra something seen in Elite talent.
It would takes lots of guts for him to sit. We don't see kids like him very often. Meech will be pressed. Demon speed you say?

David S will redshirt. It's a foregone.

Ask yourself who you would rather be defending: KO or Sam? Now, add on Robert and Harris/Bol on the other wing? Needs will determind what Few offers. I like both plenty. Sam's better on the boards but KO brings offense with size too. Keep KO for another year. He and the Zags will benefit more if he takes a full year. He must buy into it though. KO would start in most WCC places. I bet he'd be another Klay T type at WSU....except more size and dimensions. Sam's solid. Big time player.

In the past, we've commented on the incoming talent....seems like enthusiasm is renewed every year for the new kids. Some fizzle, aren't "ready". I have a feeling I will be saying this over and over this year: EACH and every new face could play right away....and play very well.

Let's see how they do in the OOC tough games. That'll tell us more. I have a feeling that "nerves" will matter more than talent shortage. i.e. Sam at the FT line against Duke in front of 19 K fans shrieking at him could prove interesting.

We have a good team. We'll lose some but I'm feeling a bit better about the new faces.

zag67
11-03-2009, 11:38 AM
I would like to at least add one scenario to 75Zags statement that the top teams only play 6 - 7 players. Most of the top teams do this because the difference between the top 6 or 7 and the rest is so much. In the team that we have, I am not so sure that is true. I think that different players may be able offer different things to this team. Therefore depending on the team we play, it might not be the same 8 or 9 players that would best help the team. I think that we have a certain set that will get more minutes, but

I do not think that you can play 6 or 7 players and play all out at both ends of the court. In most cases you will see the player gliding (resting) at one end or the other. This team has enough athletes, I think that you can see them all give 110% for a shorter number of minutes. Then they know that they have a replacement that will come in and do the same. The key is to have the correct chemistry of players in at the same time.

But again that is the reason we are here and not being paid the "big" bucks to make these decsions. The coaches and players are probably talking these same issues and they will hopefully come up with the best answer.

NotoriousZ
11-03-2009, 11:40 AM
I hadn't thought about the notion of a medical red shirt for Kong. If that happens, probably he and Dower red shirt. If Kong plays this year, I'm thinking Kelly and Dower red shirt. Either way, if two of these guys don't sit out this year I'd be surprised.

Edit: Subsequent posts have reminded me why Kong wasn't an option to redshirt, so if I'm Few (and I'm not even fit to carry his notebook) I'd have to redshirt Olynyk and Dower. My 2 cents.

Sacre gets the 5, with Foster and Poling backing him up.
Harris gets the 4, with Poling backing him up.
Meech and GJ take the 1 and some rare time at the 2.
Bouldin gets the 2 and some time at the 1.
Gray gets the three and some time at the 2/4.
Arop is our sixth man and will spell Gray and Bouldin, and sneek some time in at the 4 spot IMO.
Kong might not get much time, but will come in at the 3 and 4.
Gibbs is in a tough spot and will play at the 2 and 1, but probably not as much as the other guys.
Dower could play this year if there's a serious injury to one of the other bigs but there's not enough playing time to go around otherwise...sorry.

P.S. it was nice meeting you at the birthday party, zagsmyboys, I'm thinking this will be a very fun season!

DADoZAG
11-03-2009, 11:55 AM
I hadn't thought about the notion of a medical red shirt for Kong.

Just to clear the air and clarify this discussion...

The ZAGS gain nothing by not playing Kong.

NCAA allows five years to play four. Kong played in Canada his freshman year (that's why he's a soph), sat out last year (essentially his RS year), and therefore has three years to play three years.

Kong can't redshirt. GJ won't redshirt, DS will from all reports.

The question is... who else?

Go ZAGS!

sittingon50
11-03-2009, 12:37 PM
All time leader in Assists at GU & #3 all-time in the WCC.

#3 Career 3 Pt. shooter @ GU.

#4 All-time scorer @ GU

3 time 1st team all league.

Redshirted.

Just sayin'.

zagsmyboys
11-03-2009, 01:11 PM
It was nice meeting you as well NotoriousZ! I am very excited about this season!! I have to admit I was a little worried, but I have a feeling it will be exciting to the end!! Dont be surprised to see me with a sign for a ticket this year either!!;)

sonuvazag
11-03-2009, 01:13 PM
Just to clear the air and clarify this discussion...

The ZAGS gain nothing by not playing Kong.

NCAA allows five years to play four. Kong played in Canada his freshman year (that's why he's a soph), sat out last year (essentially his RS year), and therefore has three years to play three years.

Kong can't redshirt. GJ won't redshirt, DS will from all reports.

The question is... who else?

Go ZAGS!
medical redshirts are different

zag buddy
11-03-2009, 01:16 PM
I really enjoyed watching Poling and Kelly O work together last night. I thought they were outstanding together.

NEC26
11-03-2009, 01:18 PM
medical redshirts are different

Not anymore you simply have 5 years to play four now.

sonuvazag
11-03-2009, 01:22 PM
touche

Zag99
11-03-2009, 03:43 PM
In reading all of these posts, nobody is stating the obvious: we have 13 players (scholarships) to play 5 positions. I think there simply has to be at least 2 RS from these players - for the good of the team as well as game continuity.

Everybody here agrees that it is very difficult to play 9 or 10 players consistantly, although it has and can be done ... imagine 13 players to choose from and trying to apportion "equal time" for these players.

My take on the players: 1. Meech, GJ; 2. Matt, Steven, Grant; 3. Manny, Bol; 4. Elias, Poling; 5. Sacre, Will. Assuming that we don't have any major injuries, that would leave very little playing time for Olynyk or Dower (if we assume Will has improved to warrant serious minutes), who would be my picks for the RS.

ZagNative
11-03-2009, 03:54 PM
Am I missing something? Did no one in this thread a couple of threads below (http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=473385#post473385) this one address any of your points?

MickMick
11-03-2009, 04:40 PM
In my opinion, any two of Olynik, Dower, and Vilarino. Of the three, I would most like to see Dower red shirt. I think his upside is way up there and he needs every opportunity to get there.

Obviously, Sam would be of immediate help if he didn't red shirt. Mark Few is looking for people to score this season and Sam has shown he isn't shy.

I am concerned about his tendency to put the ball up so quickly from any range. I would like to see him pass a little more. I would like to see him play inside on the offensive end a little more.

Many scoring opportunities come from passing the ball and having it passed right back as you break to the basket. (Give 'n' go) I never saw Sam do that in the scrimmage. Of course it takes two to get it done so it isn't all on Sam.

Another play I want to see is Sam set a screen, then break for the hoop to receive the ball from the guard that he just set the screen for. (Pick 'n' roll) And I want to see it done smoothly like it was second nature to him. I didn't see that at the scrimmage.

These are elementary, fundamental, high school level moves. Being new shouldn't be an excuse. If you want to hang out at the perimeter, you need to do more than just chuck it up there after you receive the pass. I wouldn't ask the same from JP Batista because JP always preferred to own some real estate under the rim. In other words, if you want to make a living at 20 feet, you gotta do what the guys at 20 feet do.

Sam oozes with raw untapped talent. It is so very obvious to see. But there is equal or better talent at the places where the Zags want to go. He needs every bit of coaching that the staff can give him. In the future, he would look back and be thankful if he did the red shirt.

Regardless, he is definitely going to be a great player for the Zags.

Edit: I would add that JP was excellent at the pick n roll when he was in position to do it.

zag67
11-03-2009, 08:28 PM
Think of the defensive team to put super pressure on a team:
Meech/GV
Arop
Kong
Harris
Sacre

Against shorter teams you could even run both Meech and GV. There are just so many other combinations using Matt, Steven, Poling, and Gibbs that I am glad that I am not on the coaching staff.

Reborn
11-03-2009, 08:53 PM
I think Dower will redshirt, as well as Stockton. Andy will back up Sacre, and Will Foster will get mop up time. Olynyk will back up Harris at the 4. I think Olynyk has more skills that are needed at the 4 than Dower does. I haven't seen them play yet, but I know Kelly is just so talented, and I see he did well in rebounding last night. From what I have read about the scrimmage and heard on the radio last night, Kelly played well. Kelly can also play the 3, which would give him more minutes if Kong is not as good as we hope he is. From what I keep hearing from Mark Few he is not as good as most of us hoped he would be. But he can certainy play the 3. He is the right size.And it's been said, "he can score." Let's see.

tyra
11-03-2009, 09:03 PM
I know I've beat this subject to death but I still think there is generally an unrealistic expectation on this board as to how deep the main rotation will go. This is turn, directly impacts the RS question. And I still haven't heard anyone might a compelling case for a main rotation deeper than 9. Coach Few has no history of doing that and almost all successful programs don't. It is not just a question of not having the talent to go that deep; it is a question of enabling players to develop "flow."

webspinnre
11-03-2009, 10:19 PM
In a perfect world, I'd RS both Sam and Kelly. They've both got tons of potential, and certainly could log minutes for us, but I'm not sure how many they'd get, just with the incredible depth we have (they'd start/get significant minutes for many other WCC teams). If we're talking less than 5 minutes per game for either of them, which I think we are, why not save their year of eligibility, and let them get stronger and learn the system. I can just imagine the two of them absolutely dominating as 5th year seniors, playing either the 3 and 4 or the 4 and 5 (remembering that in college hoops, true centers are few and far between).

As someone mentioned, I feel good about Elias, Rob, Will and Andy eating the minutes at the 4 and 5, and goodness knows we've got plenty of depth at the 2/3.

NorthWestZag
11-03-2009, 10:30 PM
The strategy should be to redshirt as many guys as we can afforded.

How many people are glad we RS Heytvelt? That Sweet 16 Team last season probably would not have happened if Few didn't do that.

We can't redshirt Kong, Andy, or Gibbs.

We should definitely redshirt Kelly and Dower. Possibly Arop too if Kong is healthy. The rotation can really be 9-deep max.

G-Meech
G-Gray
G-Bouldin
F-Harris
C-Sacre
6-Villarno
7-Kong
8-Gibbs
9-Poling
10-Big Will

The rotation should look something like that. And we can always pull reshirts off guys because of injury. But I think Kelly and Dower are automatic, and I would love to see Arop here for 5 years.

Postplayer57
11-03-2009, 11:33 PM
I have to support what all of you are saying. After a year of learning the system and physical growth Dower & K.O. will give Gonzaga four years of possibly the best one-two punch up front we've ever had. Red shirt both of them.

guniverse
11-04-2009, 07:25 AM
my honest reply as much as i hate to say it is that i believe only one of kelly or dower will redshirt if either of them. the reason for this belief is that i believe few is in a bind. personally, i do not believe that the real question is what to do with grant because he cannot take over the point with a clear mind when goodson comes out. he is not quick enough, neither is steven or matt's handles. GJ does not redshirt for this reason. In the front court there are a lot of body's. but i don't call that depth. do you really want andy or foster matching up against high devision one power forwards, even samhan for that matter. will would be an offensive liability and andy would get eaten up physically by intense low block players that are athletic. the only prayer we would have in that situation is to create a mismatch at the powerforward position offensively and this could be done with kelly. if sacre gets in foul trouble and we need a low block scoring threat to keep the defense from pressuring out on the guards and wings, who seem to be our only offense, than dower has to be in there to keep them some what honest and allow a little breathing room for them to drive and shoot the ball. The only way i see any of these three redshirting is if few says scrap this season, hopefully in three years we can go for it all. i dont see that happening. i hear the argument of the nine man rotation, but i dont think will, andy, kong, and gibbs crack it. this is why i believe there will be a nine man rotation that is filled with the freshman.

rdulay8
11-04-2009, 07:37 AM
The strategy should be to redshirt as many guys as we can afforded.

How many people are glad we RS Heytvelt? That Sweet 16 Team last season probably would not have happened if Few didn't do that.

We can't redshirt Kong, Andy, or Gibbs.

We should definitely redshirt Kelly and Dower. Possibly Arop too if Kong is healthy. The rotation can really be 9-deep max.

G-Meech
G-Gray
G-Bouldin
F-Harris
C-Sacre
6-Villarno
7-Kong
8-Gibbs
9-Poling
10-Big Will

The rotation should look something like that. And we can always pull reshirts off guys because of injury. But I think Kelly and Dower are automatic, and I would love to see Arop here for 5 years.

redshirting Manny is out of the question.

hooter73
11-04-2009, 08:24 AM
Well after watching just one game and not knowing who was nervous, who was having an uncommonly good night, who was having an uncommonly bad night (Gray), and who was sitting back alittle to let others have a go (Bouldin) its hard to tell. Year wise it'd be nice to have two years of GJ at point but he's too good. I honestly see him playing as much if not more than Meech this year alone. Yes having both Dower and Olynik for five years would probably be ideal. Foster is a non factor, that just is what it is. Against D1 post opponents, I hope Poling is better than we've seen because Sacre will get into foul troupble or get tired or something at an inopportune time and will need a good back up. As it is I would hope for both Kelly and Sam to RS but dont think it will happen for whatever reason. We've just gotten done with the post player than wants to be a wing (josh) and if Dower can learn and grow then that is the unfortunately best choice. I sure liked what I saw from him and Kelly so far though. Give it another game or two and we'll either see trends or not. That will really make choices clearer (i hope).

willandi
11-04-2009, 09:52 AM
Of course, we can shirt one of the two this year and the other next. The cupboard will still be full. (Kelly and Sam)

IrishZag
11-04-2009, 10:42 AM
Nobody has stated the most obvious choice. Redshirt Bouldin.

Let the kids learn by fire for a year, and then Bouldin makes his triumphant return in 2010-11 to lead a young a tested Bulldogs squad to the promised land.

Sure it may be a "rough" year but think about the benefits for 2009.

Gray would be forced to become the leader and go to scorer that people on this board want him to be.
Meech would get plenty of opportunities to run sets with G.J. or Gibbs at the 2.
Kong and Manny get to duke it out for starting Point Forward.
Big Will owns Senior night.

Then in 2010-11 we win the national championship and Matt Bouldin is Consensus All-American Player of the Year.

Flawless Victory! Remember patience is a virtue.

zagsmyboys
11-04-2009, 11:48 AM
Well IrishZag.....I think you spoke the words that many of us were scared too!! That would make a sweet team for 2010-2011!! Could you imagine!!

sittingon50
11-04-2009, 11:49 AM
Brilliant!!!

007Zag
11-04-2009, 01:05 PM
haha that's great IrishZag!

I have to agree with northwest zag. redshirting manny seems crazy, but look at that position... it's stacked. Kong, Harris, and Poling. Kong and Poling can't be redshirted, and Harris started. He's gonna play. So either we waste one of our forwards' years of eligibility or redshirt Manny. That's assuming that Olynyk is redshirted, and not even considering the fact that Dower will quite likely move to strong forward when big will is in at center to give us some weight down low.

Maybe what we do is have two full teams with a sub each and just run run run the competition ragged. Maybe Meech, Bouldin, Kong, Harris and Sacre with Poling as a sub and GJ, Gray, Manny, Dower and Foster with Gibbs as a sub.

It kind of illustrates the bind that Few is in. Even given that ridiculous scenario, it assumes that Olynyk and Stockton are redshirted. Maybe we should play three teams.

maynard g krebs
11-04-2009, 01:22 PM
redshirting Manny is out of the question.

Agree. He's the lockdown defender against teams with elite wings right now. And the chances of him being around for a fifth year are slim, imo. Players that good do not redshirt w/o unusual circumstances.

As to rsing both Dower and Olynik, seems possible only if there are no injuries in the frontcourt. And that's a rare occurrence.

zag67
11-04-2009, 01:43 PM
First of all, IMO, we can only "hope" to keep Manny and probably Harris here for four years. And depending upon how Bol gets going, it might be hard to keep him here for even 3 years. Therefore redshirting either of them does not make any since.

KO, Stockton and Dower make since, but only if they want to. If not the coaches may try working the scenario of waves and try and tire the other team out. If you have 10/11 players playing in 5 - 7 minute waves for the first 33 minutes and then which ever set of players are playing the best plays the last 7 minutes. This would wear your opponents down so that you can take advantage of your strengths in the end game.

titopoet
11-04-2009, 01:46 PM
Nobody has stated the most obvious choice. Redshirt Bouldin.


Then in 2010-11 we win the national championship and Matt Bouldin is Consensus All-American Player of the Year.

Flawless Victory! Remember patience is a virtue.
How about redshirting Coach Few. He can work on his coaching and come back ready to lead us to the NBA champ.

Mr Vulture
11-04-2009, 02:14 PM
I think it is obvious that Sam and Kelly both should and will redshirt as will David Stockton. I would be floored if they redshirted GJ...absolutely floored because he looked like a serious player to me. Seems like we can be fine up front with Sacre, Big Will, Poling and Harris...the guys like Arop and Kong will be playing upfront or on the wing as well. Bouldin can play the wing or 2 guard...Gray will be primarily the 2 guard. Meech should be starting at the point with GJ providing solid minutes. Gibbs will float around at different spots which means we have 11 guys getting minutes already.

The talent is ridiculous on this squad but the few minutes that guys like Olynyk, Dower and Stockton would get this season would be easily trumped by the redshirt year to add strength and knowledge of the team concepts.

Ultimately I would be shocked if they didn't redshirts Sam and Kelly both....

Pargo the Destroyer
11-04-2009, 02:17 PM
Its Sam. BobZag confirmed in a different thread.

Mr Vulture
11-04-2009, 02:25 PM
The strategy should be to redshirt as many guys as we can afforded.

How many people are glad we RS Heytvelt? That Sweet 16 Team last season probably would not have happened if Few didn't do that.

We can't redshirt Kong, Andy, or Gibbs.

We should definitely redshirt Kelly and Dower. Possibly Arop too if Kong is healthy. The rotation can really be 9-deep max.

G-Meech
G-Gray
G-Bouldin
F-Harris
C-Sacre
6-Villarno
7-Kong
8-Gibbs
9-Poling
10-Big Will

The rotation should look something like that. And we can always pull reshirts off guys because of injury. But I think Kelly and Dower are automatic, and I would love to see Arop here for 5 years.

I would make a little bit of change to this because I don't think Gibbs will play very much at all.

PG - Meech, SG - Gray, SF - Bouldin, PF - Harris, C - Sacre

Main Backups - Vilarino (PG/SG), Arop (SF), Kong (SF/PF), Poling (PF/C)

Situational Minutes - Gibbs (PG/SG/SF) and Foster (C)

Redshirts - Dower, Olynyk, Stockton, Kid from Portland (can't remember his name)....

cjm720
11-04-2009, 06:07 PM
I would make a little bit of change to this because I don't think Gibbs will play very much at all.

PG - Meech, SG - Gray, SF - Bouldin, PF - Harris, C - Sacre

Main Backups - Vilarino (PG/SG), Arop (SF), Kong (SF/PF), Poling (PF/C)

Situational Minutes - Gibbs (PG/SG/SF) and Foster (C)

Redshirts - Dower, Olynyk, Stockton, Kid from Portland (can't remember his name)....

This is how it should turn out but the one thing that has burned us in the past is Injuries. KO can essentialy play four positions and we might benefit from that perspective as well as his play on the court. I really like the idea of staggering our talent but either way it'll be fun to see it play out.

Go Zags!!

bigblahla
11-04-2009, 06:24 PM
I don't think Gibbs will play very much at all.

I'll take that bet.

Grant Gibbs is a gamer. He plays physical on both ends and has an understanding of the offense and I believe Coach and staff have a higher opinion of his ability than yours.

He reminds me of a combination Blake and Pendo and I think he'll earn his PT.

Go!! Zags!!!

NEC26
11-04-2009, 06:28 PM
I'll take that bet.

Grant Gibbs is a gamer. He plays physical on both ends and has an understanding of the offense and I believe Coach and staff have a higher opinion of his ability than yours.

He reminds me of a combination Blake and Pendo and I think he'll earn his PT.

Go!! Zags!!!

Don't forget he will also be one of our better three point shooters too. He will get playing time this year. Especially in conference play I would bet.

MickMick
11-04-2009, 06:31 PM
I'll take that bet.

Grant Gibbs is a gamer. He plays physical on both ends and has an understanding of the offense and I believe Coach and staff have a higher opinion of his ability than yours.

He reminds me of a combination Blake and Pendo and I think he'll earn his PT.

Go!! Zags!!!

Everyone has a role and Grant has his. He gives great effort and the coaches will put him in a position to succeed. I think he gets some playing time as well.

Mr Vulture
11-05-2009, 01:03 PM
It's not a knock on his talent as to why I don't see him getting alot of minutes this year. I just think that he is the 3rd option at PG and the 3rd option at SG on this particular squad. In fact, I think Grant will be a very good player for us down the road. I just think that with the makeup of this team that some games he will play many minutes and some games he will hardly play. This is more a reflection on the talent level above him and the fact that he plays in the backcourt where he is behind guys like Goodson, Gray, and Bouldin. I also think GJ will be ahead of him due to his ability to play the point.

CDC84
11-05-2009, 02:37 PM
Olynyk is not likely to redshirt. Just Sam.

In an ideal world, it would be nice to redshirt both, but Gonzaga needs another offensively skilled player with size and length in the rotation. If forced to choose between the two, I think Olynyk is the right choice because of his versatility and his proven ability to put up numbers against U.S. college players at FIBA this summer.

DADoZAG
11-05-2009, 02:55 PM
Olynyk is not likely to redshirt. Just Sam.

In an ideal world, it would be nice to redshirt both, but Gonzaga needs another offensively skilled player with size and length in the rotation. If forced to choose between the two, I think Olynyk is the right choice because of his versatility and his proven ability to put up numbers against U.S. college players at FIBA this summer.

+1!

For those that haven't had the opportunity to see Kelly, watch this, BUT KEEP THE VOLUMN DOWN IF YOU'RE EASILY OFFENDED:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RYfHUkEmG0

This video gives you an idea of what this young man will be showing us THIS year and the years following. Yes, it's a high school highlight video, but you can't argue with the touch from 3 pt range, the passing, the D, the behind the back dribble, the drop pass, the...

I'm telling you, this young man will be putting up triple doubles in points, rebounds and assists.

Go ZAGS!

Baldwinzag
11-05-2009, 03:10 PM
+1!

For those that haven't had the opportunity to see Kelly, watch this, BUT KEEP THE VOLUMN DOWN IF YOU'RE EASILY OFFENDED:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RYfHUkEmG0

This video gives you an idea of what this young man will be showing us THIS year and the years following. Yes, it's a high school highlight video, but you can't argue with the touch from 3 pt range, the passing, the D, the behind the back dribble, the drop pass, the...

I'm telling you, this young man will be putting up triple doubles in points, rebounds and assists.

Go ZAGS!

I can't help but consider Kelly a mix between Mike Dunleavy(Duke) and Daniel Kirkert(St. Marys). A highly skilled and scoring combo-forward. Watch out America!