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jscrk
10-27-2009, 03:18 PM
As I was watching "Krazy in the Kennel" on Saturday, I wondered about the new recruits; 4 of the 6 new recruits are from outside of the US: Kong; Arop;Olynk; and Harris. Is this because these 4 recruits are very talented and GU was able to secure their commitments or is this because GU was not successful in recruiting in the US and was forced to go outside. In another words, did the top recruits from the US which GU was interested choose other colleges?

hockeyzag
10-27-2009, 04:00 PM
I think it's a little bit of both.

Obviously the staff saw some special things in the recruits we brought in from outside the U.S. I think Manny and Elias in particular would have been very highly rated had they been from America.

From my perspective though it has seemed like Gonzaga has struggled a little to land top flight talent from inside the country. Then again you can look at it and say that we've landed some pretty highly rated players, Bouldin, Heytvelt, Daye, Gray, Goodson.

I'd say Gonzaga is usually able to recruit guys in the 60-150 range (from the Rivals150 best players in the country)

BobZag
10-27-2009, 04:17 PM
Probably both, like HZ said.

The staff doesn't "settle" for recruits, though. They get recruits of a certain caliber. For instance, the staff just passed on Joe Harris from Chelan, and Brad Tinsley from Oregon City. Those two are Virginia and Vanderbilt now. And they passed on Casto and Brown of WSU as well. The Mangisto Arop story is interesting; the staff was scouting Arop, Mike Moser and Aaron Dotson. They thought Arop looked better and had better upside than the other two, so Arop was GU's first choice. Moser ended up at UCLA. So while the staff doesn't always get who they want the most, they won't lower their sights. That said, it may be years until a class with an international kid is brought in again. This is not the norm.

75Zag
10-27-2009, 04:42 PM
I think I said this a couple years ago and received considerable abuse, but at times GU recruiting reminds me of my (late) uncle Jake who married a woman from the Philippines. He was in his mid to late 50s and I think she was about 23. He claimed that the reason he "recruited" her was that she was the BEST woman available anywhere. My cousins and I speculated that she was the ONLY woman available anywhere.

Not saying that our Canadian and German and Sudanese players are the ONLY players available, but I continue to suspect that if we could get two or three "Burger Boys", we would, but since we can't, we order them from over seas.

Feel free to start whining, and may God bless the soul of Uncle Jake.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

zagamatic
10-27-2009, 05:24 PM
I can't remember how "highly" Bouldin was ranked coming out of high school, now he's a pre-season Wooden Award Candidate. As I recall, Morrison wasn't all that highly recruited and he got National Player of the Year. Heytvelt and Daye were both highly recruited and panned out well overall. But, I don't think Raivio wasn't recruited very highly either and made conference POY if my recollection is correct. We could go on and on.
I guess my question is, does it really freakin matter where they come from or how highly they're ranked as long as they play well individually and within the system? Personally, I don't give a darn about how much some scout drools over some kid coming out of high school. All that matters to me is how much character and drive do they have and are they gonna grow as a player and a person while going to SCHOOL here.
But, that's just my opinion

VaBeachZAG
10-27-2009, 05:34 PM
In this case zagmatic, I think your opinion is pretty darn good.

Psychozag
10-27-2009, 05:35 PM
Sounds to me like Uncle Jake made himself a happy man.

MickMick
10-27-2009, 05:46 PM
What matters is the end result. We are rather spoiled.

GU is bringing the right players regardless of what Rivals thinks of them.

FuManShoes
10-27-2009, 05:48 PM
I don't think it hurts any to develop inroads and warm feelings in cold places. GU can't afford to send recruiters all over the country -- and the globe -- but maybe that becomes a bit less necessary the more they "foster" strong relationships with HS, AAU and international programs. It may well be that this year's Canadian invasion and blitzkrieg pay dividends for years to come. So I wonder if all things being equal, the staff doesn't reach for a kid from a place that may yield more gold down the line.

sonuvazag
10-27-2009, 05:52 PM
The way I see it is GU has a limited budget of money and time for recruiting and they do an amazing job getting a return on their investments.

CaliforniaZaggin'
10-27-2009, 07:05 PM
GU is bringing the right players regardless of what Rivals thinks of them.

Agreed. When it comes to doing a write-up on a player from a small town going to a small school (like Kelly Olynyk) or a player from a big city going to be a big school with a bigger fan base, which do you think Rivals is going to choose? Which one do you think will sell more subscriptions?

LynetteG
10-27-2009, 07:17 PM
I can't remember how "highly" Bouldin was ranked coming out of high school,

Don't know exactly as far as ranking, but he was Mr Colorado, which isn't too shabby either.

Everyone has to keep in mind that rankings are just the opinions of a couple of people about a player. Lots of rankings are political, and let me tell you, (some of) the parents of these kids politic for higher rankings. I am glad GU evaluates for talent, regardless of rankings, and doesn't shy away from kids who aren't as highly ranked as others. A burger boy doesn't guarantee success....look around at some other teams with these kids. Again, there is politicking involved in who gets on the McDs AA teams, as well.

Reborn
10-27-2009, 07:45 PM
I think Mark Few and staff go after the best athlete available. I really don't think they care where that athlete lives. The world has gotten smaller, and the influx of foreigners into college basketball in the USA is now a fact. I would just as soon have Gonzaga get these great athletes living outside of the USA than another program. I think the 4 guys you are referring to in this thread are, most likely, the best available athletes for GONZAGA style of basketball. So far, I think everyone is pretty excited about our 4 guys coming into the USA to play basketball. Whether Mark Few believes the athlete fits into the Zag style of playing the game is more important than his ranking. I think we will continue to get kids from overseas if they are the best available athlete and fit into the Zag style.

SDzagster
10-27-2009, 07:59 PM
Well stated Reborn - I agree with that.

kyle dixon
10-27-2009, 08:20 PM
I read this board religiously and agree with much of what is said. Each year the Zags season begins with a ton of promise and at times question marks. Then the Zags lead by the calm and collected Mark Few always seem to deliver. For some reason this season I have quite a few questions and it deals with the youth of this team.

In the video it expressed that with each passing year, a new leader emerged who managed to deliver 105+ wins. Some of the players that I was the biggest critic of still managed to produce a high win total.

This recruiting class as well as last years redshirt class has tons of responsibility that no other Zag team has ever had. Bouldin and Gray are seasoned, but Meech and Sacre barely have gotten their feet wet. I have a ton of faith in the Elias Harris', Arop's, Kong's, and Poling's but definitely the Gibbs', Vilarino's and others will have to produce.

This schedule is great this year, but I will say it is very difficult for a youthful team. A team lead by Coach Few will manage to get the wins, but I will say this team will definitely have its hands full. Go Zags!

GoZags
10-28-2009, 12:17 AM
Don't know exactly as far as ranking, but he was Mr Colorado, which isn't too shabby either.

Everyone has to keep in mind that rankings are just the opinions of a couple of people about a player. Lots of rankings are political, and let me tell you, (some of) the parents of these kids politic for higher rankings. I am glad GU evaluates for talent, regardless of rankings, and doesn't shy away from kids who aren't as highly ranked as others. A burger boy doesn't guarantee success....look around at some other teams with these kids. Again, there is politicking involved in who gets on the McDs AA teams, as well.

Matt was as high as 45 and as low as 80 (in the nation). His RCSI rating (combination of 6 services) had him at 65 (one behind Hasheem Thabeet). That was the '06 recruiting class.

Matt's RCSI (http://rscihoops.com/)

titopoet
10-28-2009, 06:20 AM
Probably both, like HZ said.

That said, it may be years until a class with an international kid is brought in again. This is not the norm.

Are they still interested in Kevin Pangos?
Also, let us not forget the international players of past that help the program. Ronny and JP come to mind. Harris, Arop, Kong and Olynyk maybe the next ones to push the program to new heights.

visit www.life-and-faith.org (http://www.life-and-faith.org)

1973Zag
10-28-2009, 07:04 AM
lets face it-we take the best we can get. the burger boys end up at UNC,UCLA,Puke,Callipari, etc.-no coincidence they have been final four regulars. We steal a few top 50, discover some gems, and have a very good program. We overachieve, they do what they should with the given talent, sometimes even underachieve. We wont sell our souls, like some, to get a burger boy, but it sure wouldn't hurt our FF chances either.

1973Zag
10-28-2009, 07:12 AM
before I get ripped!-I am not suggesting we sell our souls for a BB-NEVER-only saying having a BB that fits our standards would be nice. even the playing field a bit

hockeyzag
10-28-2009, 07:32 AM
This is a list of the Rivals rankings our players had coming in as freshman to Gonzaga. Rivals is thought of, by most, as the top basketball recruiting ranking website. They rank the top 150 players that they are aware of, which is mostly American players.

Derek Raivio 2003 3-star No ranking PG
Adam Morrison 2003 0 stars, No ranking SF

Josh Heytvelt 2004 #120 3-star 30th ranked PF
David Pendergraft 2004 #147 3-star SF
JP Batista 2004 Transfer 3-star

Jeremy Pargo 2005 #105 3-star 34th ranked SG, 5th ranked player from Illinois

Matt Bouldin 2006 #45 4-star 9th rated SG
Theo Davis 2005 #39 4-star PF
Micah Downs 2005 #28 4-star 8th ranked SF Mcdonald's All American

Austin Daye 2007 #25 5-star 7th rated SF
Steven Gray 2007 #64 4-star 15th rated SG
Robert Sacre 2007 #102 4-star 10th rated C

Grant Gibbs 2008 #118 3-star 22nd rated PG
Demetri Goodson 2008 #132 3-star 27th rated PG, 8th rated player from Texas
Andy Poling 2008 3-star 20th rated C

Mangisto Arop 2009 #88 4-star 15th rated SF
Sam Dower 2009 #132 3-star 32nd rated PF
GJ Vilarino 2009 No ranking 3-star PG


So as you can see, over time we have been able to recruit in the top 150 with varying success. Our most successful year according to rivals being 2007. 2006 is different because two of those players were transfers.

And as you can also see, Rivals doesn't have a crystal ball and they aren't able to see how good a player will be. Best example is Adam Morrison, contrasted by a player like Theo Davis. Adam not ranked, led the country in scoring, Theo ranked at #39, didn't even get minutes.

What I like about Gonzaga when it comes to recruiting is development. We recruit these players and usually keep them all 4 years. Which gives them all time to develop into the best players they can be. I believe Coach Few and his staff develops players at a much higher level than most other schools.

What I'd like to see is Gonzaga recruiting in the solid 4 star range. Good players who are more likely to stay for more than 1 to 2 years. But I don't ever want Gonzaga to stop looking abroad for good players. I'm predicting Manny and Elias in particular are both going to be thought of as major steals in the future. I can also see Sam, Kelly, GJ, and Bol being thought of in that way as well.

BobZag
10-28-2009, 08:21 AM
Are they still interested in Kevin Pangos?
Also, let us not forget the international players of past that help the program. Ronny and JP come to mind. Harris, Arop, Kong and Olynyk maybe the next ones to push the program to new heights.

visit www.life-and-faith.org (http://www.life-and-faith.org)

Yes on Pangos. And who knows what kids Tommy has his eye on in Europe? But four in one class may never happen again. One here, one there, that's more likely.

titopoet
10-28-2009, 09:19 AM
Yes on Pangos. And who knows what kids Tommy has his eye on in Europe? But four in one class may never happen again. One here, one there, that's more likely.

I doubt GU will have a class as big as this one either.

cjm720
10-28-2009, 11:27 AM
Thanks for the post, Hockey. I would add that many of our recruits have committed early, which usually results in less ink aand player evaluations. There's no doubt that Ammo, Gray, and others would have been ranked higher if they didn't commit early (also, injuries really hurt Poling).

Go Zags!!!

ZagnetitForce
10-28-2009, 12:31 PM
I doubt GU will have a class as big as this one either.

Won't they in 4 years?

sittingon50
10-28-2009, 02:35 PM
Class may thin out due to redshirts/transfers/early departures. Would be hard to believe that this entire group will stay intact.

BobZag
10-28-2009, 02:40 PM
Class may thin out due to redshirts/transfers/early departures. Would be hard to believe that this entire group will stay intact.

And by merely redshirting one or two will reduce the class size in 4 years as wll.

ZagnetitForce
10-28-2009, 02:55 PM
Early departures may work on the other side as well right - opening up an unexpected spot? I hear ya guys though. I wouldn't 4 is out of the question in 4 years one way or another and that is a pretty good size class I would think - it's no 7!