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View Full Version : The System or the Players ?



Postplayer57
10-25-2009, 01:00 PM
At the risk of being negatived into atoms, this how I feel. In an earlier thread a Poster made reference to the fact that just perhaps some of the more talented individuals playing basketball do not fit into any particular Coaches style of play and in fact could indirectly cause said system to operate at less than maximum efficiency ? (For those of you Aggies out there, I apologize for the sentence length) After much deliberation
I'm forced to agree. Looking at last nights debut and attempting to be non-partisan I am forced to admit that I did not see a single NBA ready, multi-skilled, youth in a man's body, one and done type basketball player. Yep, no Jordan, no LeBron, no Anthony, no Shaq etc..etc.., hell perhaps not even a Love, or Harongody? Why? The odds of a perfect TEN in hoopsology desiring
to matriculate at a Catholic,Jesuit University, in the Northwest, where winter weather is harsh , hip-hop runs second to Country, the difinition of a minority would be those who have health insurance, and they actually expect players to not only attend classes but take part, well lets just say those odds are staggering?Thats one Hell of a handicap! Right?
Now on the other hand,in spite of our disadvantages , we have sent some pretty damn good hoops players to the play for pays; Stockton,Morrison, Turiaf,plus many others who have had a cup of coffee in the BIG"s but have made some decent bucks playing the International game. Some of our former Zag's are even Federal Judges , Physicians, Attorney's,Engineers, assorted successful businessmen and law abiding Citizens. And much of their success can be attributed to learning to operate within a SYSTEM , combining their strengths and minimizing their weaknesses. Mark Few has the System, he tinkers with it and improves it every year.This time I think he has what he needs to climb the mountain , this group of kids have the tools, the desire,the Chemistry, and will buy the SYSTEM . I'm not saying which year, but before this class hangs up 'their Uni's we'll have that "Final Four" and perhaps the Title too.

ZagNative
10-25-2009, 01:13 PM
HBZ, I wish I were patient enough to hang with you and untangle what you're trying to say, but I have a feeling that behind it all, I'd find ...

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/ZagNative/Junk/axe_to_grind_md_clr.gif

Can you summarize, in three sentences or less, your point for those of us who are patience-challenged?

BroncoZAG615
10-25-2009, 01:22 PM
HBZ, I wish I were patient enough to hang with you and untangle what you're trying to say, but I have a feeling that behind it all, I'd find ...

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/ZagNative/Junk/axe_to_grind_md_clr.gif

Can you summarize, in three sentences or less, your point for those of us who are patience-challenged?

I THINK he is saying that he likes this team because they don't have NBA ability yet and thus we will win a title because they'll hang out for a while in Spokane where rap music is not as prevalent.

That's how I deduced the argument. Hope it helps.

Postplayer57
10-25-2009, 01:41 PM
Zagnative I respect your opinions and value reading your posts. This is how I feel about Gonzaga Basketball? While I love watching the kids perform as indiviuals my greatest satisfaction is in seeing their progress as a TEAM.
I think that while it would be great if we could recruit the next "LeBron" or "Shaq" the chances of it happening are slim and none, and Slim left town.
I also think that five good players operating within a SYSTEM will defeat five GREAT players doing their own thing at least 50% of the time.
I disagree with the idea that Collegiate or any form of competitive amatuer sports exist simply for the purpose of being a minor League for Professional Sports. And under no circumstances would I be willing to look the other way on any issue affecting the University simply to win a Championship.I played over ten years of competitive basketball and while I do not claim to be Master of the game by any stretch of the imagination, I like to think I know a little about it. And last but not least, I love and enjoy this Forum and hold no personal animosity or grudge against any on it, even those who anonymously Negative Rep me adn make rude comments on my opinions. Thats me, and thats where I'm coming from. I started this new User I.D. primarily because I screwed up and cannot get back into my alter ego HBZ. As Joe Friday said; :thems the facts!

BroncoZAG615
10-25-2009, 01:43 PM
The more I read this thread to understand it, the more it freaks me out. The connotations and sterotypes to me, are very offensive and off base.

bartruff1
10-25-2009, 01:44 PM
get to the FF....a lot more...

theothegreat21
10-25-2009, 01:50 PM
At the risk of being negatived into atoms, this how I feel. In an earlier thread a Poster made reference to the fact that just perhaps some of the more talented individuals playing basketball do not fit into any particular Coaches style of play and in fact could indirectly cause said system to operate at less than maximum efficiency ? (For those of you Aggies out there, I apologize for the sentence length) After much deliberation
I'm forced to agree. Looking at last nights debut and attempting to be non-partisan I am forced to admit that I did not see a single NBA ready, multi-skilled, youth in a man's body, one and done type basketball player. Yep, no Jordan, no LeBron, no Anthony, no Shaq etc..etc.., hell perhaps not even a Love, or Harongody? Why? The odds of a perfect TEN in hoopsology desiring
to matriculate at a Catholic,Jesuit University, in the Northwest, where winter weather is harsh , hip-hop runs second to Country, the difinition of a minority would be those who have health insurance, and they actually expect players to not only attend classes but take part, well lets just say those odds are staggering?Thats one Hell of a handicap! Right?
Now on the other hand,in spite of our disadvantages , we have sent some pretty damn good hoops players to the play for pays; Stockton,Morrison, Turiaf,plus many others who have had a cup of coffee in the BIG"s but have made some decent bucks playing the International game. Some of our former Zag's are even Federal Judges , Physicians, Attorney's,Engineers, assorted successful businessmen and law abiding Citizens. And much of their success can be attributed to learning to operate within a SYSTEM , combining their strengths and minimizing their weaknesses. Mark Few has the System, he tinkers with it and improves it every year.This time I think he has what he needs to climb the mountain , this group of kids have the tools, the desire,the Chemistry, and will buy the SYSTEM . I'm not saying which year, but before this class hangs up 'their Uni's we'll have that "Final Four" and perhaps the Title too.

No offense, but yet again all you have done is insulted every other school in the country, and this time the city of Spokane, with what you have said.

Guess what HBZ, every other major basketball program in the country produces physicians, attorney's, engineers, and successful business people....not just Gonzaga. Do you think Spokane is really that different from Durham, South Bend or Lawrence, where three very successful basketball programs reside? It's just a joke this kind of pedestal you put Mark Few and the Gonzaga program on. We really aren't that much better, and nearly every school does try to do things the right way. In case you forgot, we did have two players arrested and put in jail a couple of years ago.

And Spokane is not at all an issue when it comes to recruiting, and in fact is a big advantage. A majority of kids want to feel like the #1 show and the big thing in town, and that is exactly what Gonzaga basketball is in Spokane. The city supports every player, and that's why kids want to come here and play. They don't care that country music is more popular than rap (i mean you can just say what you want to here, and not try and cover it up by referencing music taste).

HBZ, please realize that Gonzaga is like every other major basketball program. We aren't that unique. We have kids that play hard, we get high major recruits, and some of them pan out and other don't. This happens at every other school in the country. And if you think for one second that Mark Few wouldn't take a Derrick Rose or Kevin Love in a heartbeat, then you are as naive as you are backward in your views.

Postplayer57
10-25-2009, 01:51 PM
Look did I call any of you out or ask you to change your opinion. You act as if I am an enemy because I believe the the things I do? Why? Do I give this Forum a bad reputation? And if you were Honest you would answer this one question for me on this thread? How far are 'you willing to go to win that elusive NCAA National Championship ? I'm calling you out ? Spell it out for me ? As for you, Bronco, in my mind you've spent too mcuh time watching and listening to "Rome is Burning" in other words you are a frustrated Journailism major that wants to get attention for yourself.

sittingon50
10-25-2009, 01:54 PM
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...................

bigparb
10-25-2009, 01:54 PM
The more I read this thread to understand it, the more it freaks me out. The connotations and sterotypes to me, are very offensive and off base.

PP57...don't listen to this nonsense....its way off base and is the only this offeeeeennnnnnnsive about this post.....

:vomit-smiley-007:

BroncoZAG615
10-25-2009, 02:03 PM
Look did I call any of you out or ask you to change your opinion. You act as if I am an enemy because I believe the the things I do? Why? Do I give this Forum a bad reputation? And if you were Honest you would answer this one question for me on this thread? How far are 'you willing to go to win that elusive NCAA National Championship ? I'm calling you out ? Spell it out for me ? As for you, Bronco, in my mind you've spent too mcuh time watching and listening to "Rome is Burning" in other words you are a frustrated Journailism major that wants to get attention for yourself.

Actually I was an Economics major that doesn't really care much for Jim Rome but thanks for the personal call out. I didn't call you out personally, just thought your post was remarkably off base.

ZagNative
10-25-2009, 02:47 PM
You know, HBZ, I got your point the first 50 times you expressed it. It has reached a level of axe-grinding and preaching.

And, you know, I got a pretty hateful anonymous negative rep when I posted something positive about Austin Daye leaving early for the draft. I had the nerve in that neg-repped post to talk about two little boys whose eyes I had looked into while they expressed a dream that would likely never come true for them - to play in the NBA one day. I had said I saw nothing wrong with that dream and was grateful that some kids who also had the dream but also the talent to attain it saw Gonzaga as a place that might help them achieve it. That sentiment was deeply offensive to the anonymous neg-repper, who expressed in his comment a lot of the same sentiments you do. I was convinced at the time it was you, because of how like you it sounded. Was I wrong?

You seem to want and expect our kids to all have your same values and dreams and background. Well, my friend, they don't. They don't like the same music you do, they don't come from the same neighborhood you do, they don't have the same goals as you do, they may not have the same religious background you do. They may not have the same culture that you do, and, yes, some of them aren't the same color as you.

And they're not wrong for it. They are just different than you.

I disagree with you on this whole topic. Wait. That's not strictly true. I'd rather all our kids stayed four years, because I come to know and care about them as people and for my own selfish reasons, I want to be able to continue to enjoy them as long as possible. I hope they will enjoy the Gonzaga experience and find growth academically and spiritually and have a whale of a good time doing it.

But I recognize too what a gift each of them is to our community, not just for their basketball skills, but for the kind of kids Gonzaga recruits, interesting and funny and bringing different cultural influences, whether from the rattle-snake infested orchards of Brewster, or gang-ridden streets of Chicago, or the idyllic beaches of Martinique via Paris, or from a cathedral city in Germany. I know what a blessing they are to me personally, and I am delighted that we are able to attract some of the best, and the best usually have a big dream that I get to share for a while. However long that is, I'm grateful, and I don't begrudge them leaving when a door opens to fulfill their oldest and deepest felt dreams ... to play basketball at the highest level and make a living to support their families.

So, when you want to begin one of these opuses, I just wish you'd flag it in your title, so I can devote my reading time to posts that have a more positive tone and a bit less axe-grinding.

NorthwestsFinest
10-25-2009, 03:05 PM
Guys- Take a step back. This is an online message forum. Opinions and disagreements welcome. Some of you are taking this much too seriously. No reason to get offended by other peoples opinions. If that is the case, then there are way too many things online that you should be getting offended over. We are here to discuss Zags basketball, and express our opinions. Stop getting so butt hurt!