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primal23
04-08-2007, 09:30 PM
My family got together for the Easter holiday, and my nephew, who is a current student at GU, started talking about GU BBALL (a popular topic w/ my family). The topic drifted to next year, and the idea of Heytvelt's return to the team. This might not be new news to most, but it was to me, apparently the majority of the students do not want JH back, and that he will have his work cut out for him not only on the road but at home.
I think that for him to want to come back, to know what he did to these young men, and not take the easier route of either quitting or transfering, speaks a bit for him. Hope he can turn a new leaf, but hope he also understands he may never be popular w/ the home crowd and how tough it will be when you might be getting an ear full at home and away.

GSL-KID
04-08-2007, 09:57 PM
College kids are wishy washy. They will cheer for him from day 1. It's just the moral police talking smack.

No offense, but if they are that anti Josh, they should be anti coach Few, anti the program, anti the school.... ect.

Get my drift ?

primal23
04-08-2007, 10:00 PM
Very true, hopefully if Josh can keep his life straight and his play good, the kids will rally around him again.

RebornZag
04-08-2007, 10:19 PM
Well put GSL-Kid: Why does primal23 believe that kind of gossip? His nephew somehow knows what the "majority of the students want." Josh and Theo have been in school for quite some time now...Dah!!! I went to GU and I know how small that campus and student body IS. Do you think that somehow Josh and Theo get isolated from what students are thinking about all this? Not at GU I'm afraid. It's way to small. We're not talking about the UW here.

And even if the "majority" of students didn't want Josh back on the team does that make them RIGHT? Would GU do the wrong thing just to appease the RIGHT THINKING student body? I hate to tell ya but I know the Jesuits way better than that. I wish people would just let this go, but I can see that they won't. Thanks for warning us all primal23.

BroncoZAG615
04-08-2007, 10:23 PM
GU students are realistic, they may all not agree with Josh but all serious fans understand that this team will be extremely special if Josh comes back. That being said, every person has their breaking points of what the will or will not tolerate and how long it takes them to forgive. I don't think anyone is anti-josh, people are just questioning his character and decision making, which is respectable. I'll admit that a few weeks ago, I did not want Josh on the team anymore. However, time heals all and after seeing him on campus, in classes, working out with coaches in the MAC, I have seen that he does have remorse for his actions and has no intention of leaving.

And by the way, I would say that the vast majority of kids I talk to want Josh back now. That may just speak to who I have talked to but I think if Josh stays, he will be welcome back in no time.

Just wait til his first alley-oop and you'll see

NorthWestZag
04-08-2007, 11:14 PM
I totally disagree. Most students want him back, at least the ones I talk to. Go down to the fitness center and watch Josh and Theo playing pick-up games with the students and with other players on the team. If we did some kind of vote on campus it would be a landslide in favor of bringing them back next year.

st. al
04-08-2007, 11:17 PM
I signed up for an account just to reply to this. The only people that don't seem to want him back around campus are the ones that aren't huge into sports. Personally, he's been nothing but a cool person to me, and I can't wait to see him back on the court.

pbriz
04-09-2007, 12:24 AM
I am a current GU student and I DEFINITELY want josh back. In our game against UNC last year Josh shut down Hansborough, in the UW game Josh set the tone and was the one who alley-ooped it ten seconds in, in the Stanford game Josh came through down the stretch. These were some of our biggest wins and I know Memphis' Dorsey would have had a much tougher time with Josh and Kuso in there instead of a hurt Mallon. Josh brings to the table that fiery emotion that rallies the whole team (alot like what Noah did for Florida)..... but he has to be consistent. I heard a RUMOR he was moved onto student housing... sounds like a good plan at this time.

Bottom line: MUCH better team with Josh

PBriz

DrDrivel
04-09-2007, 12:35 AM
There is a tide of resentment toward the dismissed players. This is a minority opinion. It is also one to which the easiest response is "those in glass houses..."

I won't name names, but one person is chiefly responsible for this (at least on an organizational front). Failing basic tests in critical reasoning, this individual has campaigned for permanent dismissal primarily as a personal attention stunt. S/he believes that opinions are the mark of a grown-up - the stronger and more extreme, the better.

I think it's safe to ignore this issue. It's a fleeting and minor movement.

Also, yes, that "rumor" (I'm not sure why it's a rumor) is true. Josh does live in student housing.

VaBeachZAG
04-09-2007, 07:13 AM
Frankly, with all due respect, this thread is pointless! Short of a scientific poll or 100% student body vote, nobody knows the majority campus view on whether Josh should stay or go. The school administration has made its decision, lets move on and look forward to the next great season of GU basketball!

Zag509
04-09-2007, 07:33 AM
From what I have heard from students most DONT want Josh back. They said it felt like they had been betrayed. That being said after a few dunks they will not even remember.

Zagdawg
04-09-2007, 08:12 AM
Of the 3 students I talked to at the Bulldog-- 2 out of the 3 want him back-- (that would equate to most also in my book)--
;)

beatProgram
04-09-2007, 08:35 AM
I don't really want him back, for two reasons.

1) The team played more like a team with him gone. Until the NCAA tourney they played with a drive and intensity that just isn't there when Heytfelt is on the floor with them.

2) I can't help but feel like the guy is getting a better deal out of all this than some random PoliSci major found in the same situation would have, and that bothers me. I recognize that there's plenty of favoritism toward athletes at pretty much every level from high school on up, and I'm willing to accept that. What bugs me is that some of the people who levy that favoritism would appear unwilling to call it that.

You hear a lot of talk like, "Oh but he's such a great kid, and he really wants to work hard and make his way." which we all know is bull#### on some level, at least in the sense of he's not going to have to work THAT hard, because he's likely going to get plenty of minutes regardless.

To top it off, perhaps it's my own bias, it seems to be less about how great a kid Heytfelt is, nor how hard he's willing to work (as we have know way of knowing either), and instead rings more in line with, "Eh he screwed up, but who cares, I just want that kind of talent on the team."

Now I'm not one to say the guy should be thrown in solitary over the offense, but rather than provide him with what ultimately amounts to no penalty for his actions I'd rather see him cut loose to be picked up by another D1 team or spend a year at a JuCo to have to prove himself; irrespective of how it relates to GU basketball.

DrDrivel
04-09-2007, 11:57 AM
Except that on the legal and scholastic fronts, he is being treated as any normal individual. If you believe that there's any sort of favoritism being displayed, please lay out your case. Evidence. As it stands, you've just made the assertion with no follow-up.

First time offenders with established scholastic records and good citizenship to point to almost invariably get the same program as he has. The same goes for DUIs - kids in school who just screwed up and have no other criminal history can typically get it reduced to Reckless Driving and eventually have it expunged (for background checks and so forth - not applicable for future offenses). It's NOT uncommon.

And as for the school... do you actually know any random PoliSci majors who have been arrested for possession? Something tells me you don't. While they weren't PoliSci majors, I do. And the school treats them EXACTLY the same way. Same with any arrest - there's a counseling and probationary period with the school. Nobody is kicked out who wants to stay, is recalcitrant and has the legal right to do so.

bayzag09
04-09-2007, 12:03 PM
college students are wishy washy? wtf does that even mean grandpa? i want josh back, just because I am wishy washy

gupfarr
04-09-2007, 12:08 PM
I just graduated from GU and spent this last basketball season working in spokane and living with one undergraduate GU student and one GU law student near campus. We all knew what Josh was doing before he got caught, what he was doing when he got caught was not surprising in the least, I think a lot of students knew what was going on. That being said my roommates and I would not be upset if he doesn't return to the team.

Of course the team will probably be better with him on it, but if his behavior continues, and believe me the students at Gonzaga will know if it does, then he should not be given another chance. If he turns it around then thats great, and it shows that this situation was good for him.

I wouldn't want him back on the team just because of the kinds of things he was doing (during the middle of the season) shows an utter lack of respect for his teammates and the community. And its not like he was doing a lot to hide it if a former student knew what was going on before he was finally caught by some authority figure.

p.s. I have a lot of friends that still go to the school and the majority of the people I know aren't big fans of him. But who knows what the majority is thinking.

CDC84
04-09-2007, 12:09 PM
Whether people want him back or not isn't relevant anymore...he is back, and barring any unforseen circumstance, he will be playing games in a Gonzaga uniform next season. The staff has made their decision, with the full support of Father Spitzer.

As hard as it is for some of us to do, myself included, I think we need to support the staff's decision on this, move forward, and just hope for the best.

Cautious optimism.

DrDrivel
04-09-2007, 12:13 PM
If you guys knew what was happening on every Gonzaga Basketball team for the last... let's say 10 years... you'd have a hard time following the program - at least that's the impression I get from these comments. It's a reality. And it doesn't start with Josh.

I just think these comments are overly moralistic and heavy when the only reason we're discussing Josh in particular is that he's the one who got caught. Once again, I don't want to throw anyone under the bus here, but it could have been almost anyone.

lothar98zag
04-09-2007, 12:18 PM
If you guys knew what was happening on every Gonzaga Basketball team for the last... let's say 10 years... you'd have a hard time following the program - at least that's the impression I get from these comments. It's a reality. And it doesn't start with Josh.

I just think these comments are overly moralistic and heavy when the only reason we're discussing Josh in particular is that he's the one who got caught. Once again, I don't want to throw anyone under the bus here, but it could have been almost anyone.

Every Zag over the past 10 years has at one time or another driven in Cheney w/o headlights and a bag full of illegal drugs in the back seat late at night less than 24 hours before one of the biggest WCC games of the year?

The only difference is Josh got caught. Got it. Thanks.

gupfarr
04-09-2007, 12:19 PM
Good Call!!

lothar98zag
04-09-2007, 12:20 PM
Whether people want him back or not isn't relevant anymore...he is back, and barring any unforseen circumstance, he will be playing games in a Gonzaga uniform next season. The staff has made their decision, with the full support of Father Spitzer.

As hard as it is for some of us to do, myself included, I think we need to support the staff's decision on this, move forward, and just hope for the best.

Cautious optimism.

Obviously fan opinions vary on whether JH should be on the team. But I agree w/ CDC - For better or worse, he's back. And I think every Zag fan is rooting for him to finish his GU career w/o further incident (or at least they should be).

beatProgram
04-09-2007, 12:39 PM
And as for the school... do you actually know any random PoliSci majors who have been arrested for possession? Something tells me you don't. While they weren't PoliSci majors, I do. And the school treats them EXACTLY the same way. Same with any arrest - there's a counseling and probationary period with the school. Nobody is kicked out who wants to stay, is recalcitrant and has the legal right to do so.

I personally know two GU students who would have graduated in the class of 2004 who were denied the privilege of attending GU over possession of marijuana.

One was explicitly expelled, and the other was given the option to voluntarily leave with the condition that if he/she did they'd not have the infraction hoisted onto their academic record, thus affording them the opportunity to pursue an education elsewhere without additional prejudice.

Neither of them were athletes, and neither of them were attending GU on scholarship. They were both paying their full way, and both were under their first behavioral/legal offense with the University and any local or state authority.

Though as someone else mentioned. It hardly matters. Heytfelt is back, for better or worse. I guess I was just voicing my frustration with people not willing to call a spade a spade. Plenty of folks wanted to see Heytfelt back on the team regardless of the message it sends to the other players, the students, the alumni, and future prospects just because they didn't want GU to be without Heytfelt's talent on the court.

That's all fine, but let's at least call it that.

DrDrivel
04-09-2007, 12:45 PM
Lothar, you know that's not what I meant. You know it.

But while we're on the topic, how many times would you wager that half the team was drunk and/or high in a hot tub the night before a big game this year? I think the answer would surprise you. And not across the street, either... we're talking a lengthy drive.

If you're going to be disgusted at Josh... fine. I don't smoke or use hallucinogens and I never have. But at the same time, there is a fine line called The Law of Averages between Josh and any other member of the team being in the same position. The only reason we're discussing it and getting on high horses is because one time, one of them wound up attracting the attention of a cop - and we suddenly act like he's a black sheep.

DrDrivel
04-09-2007, 12:48 PM
I personally know two GU students who would have graduated in the class of 2004 who were denied the privilege of attending GU over possession of marijuana.

One was explicitly expelled, and the other was given the option to voluntarily leave with the condition that if he/she did they'd not have the infraction hoisted onto their academic record, thus affording them the opportunity to pursue an education elsewhere without additional prejudice.

Neither of them were athletes, and neither of them were attending GU on scholarship. They were both paying their full way, and both were under their first behavioral/legal offense with the University and any local or state authority.

Though as someone else mentioned. It hardly matters. Heytfelt is back, for better or worse.

Well, I guess you and I could war all day with our contrasting anecdotes. I know one kid in particular who was expelled from student housing... and then wound up in nicer student housing as a result. Almost rewarded for his transgression.

beatProgram
04-09-2007, 12:57 PM
The difference IS that he got caught.

I'm no idiot. I've been intoxicated in one form or another with players of past teams, though never once during the playing season by coincidence only I'm sure.

I know what the guys do, I know how they behave, and I know it's only gotten worse since the recruiting has gotten good enough to the point that more and more of the players appear to feel a sense of entitlement to being treated a certain way by everyone else on campus.

Now in their defense several of those players, in addition to being your average college kid, also had a strict sense of duty and responsibility to what they accurately viewed as a privilege. The privilege to receive a higher education, the privilege to play a game in the national spotlight, and the privilege to do it all on someone else's dime.

So I'm sorry if it seems like I'm singling out Heyfelt, but he got caught, and based on most of the murmuring I'm privy to he's one of those entitlement types (or perhaps used to be). Other players have had indiscretions as well, but the University did their damage control early and swiftly to make sure everything could be shrouded in obscurity before anyone other than students who were also culpable knew much, if anything, about the incidents. In this case it was just too bad that the GU administration or the Logan police weren't the first party to the scene.

I'd rather the University be consistent, and I'd rather both of the people I knew who weren't allowed to continue to pay their way and get an education at GU were afforded the same chance Heytfelt is getting.

ZaggyStardust
04-09-2007, 01:25 PM
As I have expressed before, this is not our choice, it is the choice of the University, the Coaching Staff, the players etc. If they deem itís appropriate to allow Josh and Theo back, then I believe itís our responsibility to honor that decision and get behind the team. Itís going to be hard on these kids everywhere they go Ė is it truly a good idea to make it equally hard at home? For those who have endured the pain of a cheating spouse, or a wayward child, part of the healing process is to forgive and forget Ė a relationship canít be re-built by bringing up the original sin constantly. If you choose to reconcile, you must choose to let bygones be bygones. I sincerely hope that those who decry a double standard donít become hypocrites themselves by claiming to be the ďbest Zag fansĒ next year when the accomplishments of Josh and Theo allow the team to reach new heights. In my humble opinion, you canít have it both ways.

BoZarth
04-09-2007, 08:13 PM
I'd rather the University be consistent, and I'd rather both of the people I knew who weren't allowed to continue to pay their way and get an education at GU were afforded the same chance Heytfelt is getting.

I'm curious. Where these two people arrested OFF campus? Or did their situations occur ON campus? This could be an important distinction.

GonzagaLove
04-09-2007, 10:22 PM
My roommate from GU has a little brother there now. He was suspended for a semester for getting caught with marijuana. Good kid, good grades and no prior offenses. What punishment has Josh received by the school? To my knowledge...ZERO. Just a hall pass.

The school needs to treat JH like every other student. Anything less is a slap in the face to the students, staff and alumni.

Reminds me of Saving Private Ryan. Josh needs to "earn it", this privilege he has been given. I am not holding my breath.

GL

MedZag
04-09-2007, 10:30 PM
For those who have had friends who were suspended or expelled for marajuana, did they get caught on-campus? Because to Gonzaga as a university, there is a very big difference both legally and institutionally between being caught with illegal substances on campus by housing and campus security versus being caught in a town 40 miles away by the authorities. From my personal experiences with housing on campus, being caught on campus puts the responsibility for reprimanding on the university. I have not heard of anyone being caught with weed off campus by the spokane police being suspended. I have heard of discplinary consequences of course, but most of it is making the student a "pure student" by barring them from any club or extracurricular activities. Those I've known who have gotten caught on campus, on the other hand, have faced more severe consequences.

DrDrivel
04-09-2007, 10:58 PM
This is an important point being made here.

Yet another important point is that YOU DON'T KNOW S*** about what Josh is going through or what disciplinary processes he will have to follow. Nor, I say, is it any of your business. I don't know why everyone is so paranoid and insecure about Josh receiving special treatment. There's no evidence that there's anything to be upset about. Everyone settle down.

Birddog
04-10-2007, 07:05 AM
Yet another important point is that YOU DON'T KNOW S*** about what Josh is going through or what disciplinary processes he will have to follow.
Are you implying that you do? If the answer is in the affirmative, then pray tell, please help us all emerge from this primordial ooze of excrement that prevents us from seeing the picture as clearly as you, the precocious butterfly and knower of all things basketball, professional and Zag.

Birddog

McZag
04-10-2007, 07:34 AM
Yes Drivel. Please enlighten the rest of us. We obviously have much to benefit from your inside perspective.

zagmantis2001
04-10-2007, 08:02 AM
This is not a forum to disclose medical issues, grade issues, or disciplinary issues of a student where that student has not waived that right. The kid that was caught with ### shouldn't have private matters broadcasted over the internet and neither should JH. If that information is shared, it should immediately be deleted by the moderators.

former1dog
04-10-2007, 08:05 AM
This is not a forum to disclose medical issues, grade issues, or disciplinary issues of a student where that student has not waived that right. The kid that was caught with ### shouldn't have private matters broadcasted over the internet and neither should JH. If that information is shared, it should immediately be deleted by the moderators.

You are correct and those type of posts do get deleted. I speak as the deleter of those type of posts from time to time.