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MedZag
09-09-2009, 08:07 PM
Balls Don't Lie is one of my favorite basketball blogs, and the author writes from an unabashedly-a-fan POV at times which reminds me of what Bill Simmons used to be.

Anyways, for reasons I'm not sure, he decided to wax poetic on John Stockton today.


It wasn't a bar that I particularly enjoyed being in, despite the fact I was 22 and should have felt right at home amongst the other 22-year-olds, to say nothing of all the sports memorabilia that lined the walls. It was also just a 45-second walk from the theatre I bartended at, and across the street from a rather convenient late-night gyro stand.

That said, I would have rather been some place with fewer baseball caps, if you catch my drift, and because I was throwing a bit of a fit with the two mates that led me into this dungeon (I mean, my Dad called the place "Geek-keeper's," and when your Dad makes fun of a place you're trying to have fun in, years prior, look out), I absconded within the pub's confines and tried to find the nearest cathode tube ray featuring NBA TV. Gave the bar a bit of stick, but they did show NBA TV on occasion.

Upon finding that TV, that channel and that ticker, things got much, much worse. John Stockton was retiring, the ticker read. He wasn't going to give the 2003-04 season a try, at age 41. He was hanging it up, despite averaging a little under 11 points and eight assists per game, in under 28 minutes a contest. And for some reason, this depressed the hell out of me.

...

Stockton didn't care, and I dug that. He also played his ass off, won heaps of games, rarely let his effort wane in the face of games that didn't matter, and he could have played longer. It speaks to his own brilliance that, after close to 1,700 regular season and playoff games, I still wanted a bit more from the man.

Over six years later, we're all a bit grayer, Stockton is long gone and about to be enshrined somewhere, and I'm still ticked he called it quits. Still a little bummed.

I still think he's the one with the problem.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/On-John-Stockton?urn=nba,188370

SunDevilGolfZag
09-10-2009, 04:50 AM
Nice article -- well worth clicking on the link and reading the whole thing.

MedZag
09-10-2009, 08:06 PM
BDL added a Stockton photo gallery today. The first photo is him in a Zags jersey! Great stuff.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Photo-Gallery-John-Stockton-s-Hall-of-Fame-care?urn=nba,188642

RenoZag
09-10-2009, 08:12 PM
Zeke is Presenting John Stockton. . .




SPRINGFIELD, MA – September 8, 2009 – The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame today announced the list of Hall of Fame players and coaches who will serve as presenters for the Enshrinement Ceremony of the Class of 2009, to be staged this Friday, September 11, 2009 in Springfield, Massachusetts.

* Presenting Coach C. Vivian Stringer will be Hall of Fame Coach John Chaney



* Presenting Coach Jerry Sloan will be Hall of Fame player Charles Barkley



* Presenting John Stockton will be Hall of Fame player Isiah Thomas



* Presenting David Robinson will be Hall of Fame Coach Larry Brown and Hall of Fame player George Gervin



* Presenting Michael Jordan will be Hall of Fame player David Thompson

As tradition suggests, the incoming class for the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame enshrinement ceremony was asked to select a previous inductee to accompany and present the new member of the Basketball Hall of Fame to his or her peers. The choice is solely the decision of the incoming Hall of Famer. The enshrinement ceremony for the Basketball Hall of Fame will be celebrated this Friday, September 11, 2009 at the Springfield Symphony Hall with coverage beginning at 6:30pm (ET) on ESPN. (Check local listings).

gamagin
09-10-2009, 08:21 PM
I thought John did a fine job representing everything important to him: family, friends, schools, the sport etc etc.

And I thought KREM'S Tim Lewis did an excellent job of guiding the story with pertinent questions and anchor Randy Shaw did his best, too. KREM gathered alot of good pix, film and clips that really did the story justice, too.

Interviews ran from his bro Steve to childhood friends, influences in his life, up through several coaches, including Dan Fitzgerald, his dad, Jack, and lots and lots of talk from the usually tight lipped superstar.

The only error I saw was Tim identifying Fitz as John's coach. Fitz recruited John and then became full time AD at GU while Jay Hillock was the man who actually coached John.

It was a fun, fast, hour. I'm sure KREM will repeat it and I'm sure it will get good reviews. Much of the stuff can be found at krem.com, including several uncut interviews that didn't make it into the program, along with the interviews w/John and others that did.

Good job Tim ! Randy ! And John !

Go Zags !

Angelo Roncalli
09-10-2009, 08:30 PM
Fitz did coach John one year, his freshman season in 80-81.

CDC84
09-10-2009, 10:26 PM
Another interesting bit of history......as many know, John had almost zero interest from the NBA folks coming out of Gonzaga, despite various GU people begging for him to get an invite to the Portsmouth and Lewiston camps. Coach Hillock said that the only reason why John got invited to Portsmouth - which led to him getting drafted - was because he got invited to participate in the Coaches All Star game at 1984 Final Four in Seattle. Apparently one of the "all stars" couldn't make it, and he got to be his sub. The rest is history.

cjm720
09-11-2009, 06:18 AM
Wow, cool stuff.

Does anyone know why Stockton chose Isiah for the introduction? On appearance, they seem to be complete opposites and the choice was a surprise to me. Same with Sloan's choice with Barkley...he never played for Sloan, unless my memory has failed.

Congrats Stockton

Akzag
09-11-2009, 06:32 AM
NBA.tv or ESPNews (7:30 am Pacific ) ...

Not to be confused with the actual induction ceremony this evening, but still kinda cool. They already had intros and the fitting of the jackets, now taking Q&A in reverse alpha order ...

Coach Stringer on now, then
Stockton,
Sloan,
Robinson and then some other guy.

Each had a short "Hi, golly gee, thanks statement" earlier.
Nice short interview with Barkley how Sloan asked him to introduce him tonight.

zagzealot
09-11-2009, 07:59 AM
Some insight, not much, into the selection of Barkley and Thomas...
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705328625/Utah-Jazz-Stockton-chooses-Isiah-Sloan-picks-Barkley-as-HOF-presenters.html

zagzealot
09-11-2009, 08:05 AM
I haven't watched the whole Stockton special from last night but here's a great clip about Thomas and Stockton

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/5955294/15495503

Zag 77
09-11-2009, 02:21 PM
Here is a 4 minute clip from the KREM special 9/10/09 that captures the basic, unvarnished John Stockton re: basketball, parenthood and life.

http://www.krem.com/video/stockton-index.html?nvid=397311

He is a man of few words who does not like to talk about himself, so kudos to Tim Lewis for putting together a really nice interview.

ZagNative
09-11-2009, 03:43 PM
Thank you, John! Great, great job. I loved hearing the list of local people you thanked, especially Kerry Pickett, who did so much for my nephew's game. How many board members played for Kerry Picket?

Also nice to hear Dan Fitzgerald get some props.

John was and still is the best advertisement for Gonzaga basketball.

That was neat!

Stache
09-11-2009, 03:58 PM
Kerry L., the pride of Indiana? The big redhead perfected my form in lines, suicides, and taking the charge! "Ginny, these boys will need some donuts when I'm done with them!". Classic.

Reborn
09-11-2009, 04:23 PM
I was so lucky to see John Stockton inducted into the HOF this evening. Talk about a classy guy. And funny? I thought he had the best speech of them all. He's a great public speaker. When I think of humility I think of John Stockton. And when I think of what a Zag is, I could certainly see it in John Stockton tonight. I'm glad I got to see this, and it was great to see him inducted along with his coach Norm Sloan and the greatest player of all time, Michael Jordon.

BoZarth
09-11-2009, 04:35 PM
and Jerry Sloan

From SI.Com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jack_mccallum/04/06/stockton.sloan/index.html?eref=T1

Go Zags!!!!

RenoZag
09-11-2009, 05:54 PM
Just watched the replay of his speech on NBA-TV ( BTW, the ceremony will be replayed throughout the weekend on NBA TV; check their web site for broadcast times ) and enjoyed it very much. Seems like a humble, gracious man who prefers to redirect the spotlight towards those who helped him along the way.

Congratulations !

gamagin
09-11-2009, 07:41 PM
from Krem. click on the videos:

http://www.krem.com/video/featured-index.html?nvid=397727

FuManShoes
09-11-2009, 08:04 PM
Full speech: http://www.nba.com/video/channels/hall_of_fame/2009/09/11/nba_20090911_stockton_speech.nba/

Very moving

NotoriousZ
09-11-2009, 09:04 PM
That was awesome! Thanks for the links, gamagin and FuManShoes. And thank you John.

zagfan07
09-12-2009, 07:06 AM
Did anyone else think Jordan's speech was extremely arrogant? The guy's the best player ever and all, but man is he a pompous @$$.

I grew up while Jordan was in the league and absolutely idolized him, but last night's speech made me lose alot of respect for him. Calling out Byron Russell and some of the other guys who "disrespected" him was not only wrong; it was downright insulting. Why can't the guy just say thanks to all of his teammates, coaches and family, act gracious for being accepted into the hall, and shed a few tears for everyone? Instead he has to put down all of his opponents and build himself up to fill his ever-growing ego.

I'm so glad I got to hear Stockton's speech. He was so well-spoken and had the crowd going on every quip and joke he made. That's how a hall of fame induction speech should be. What a great ambassador for GU!

ZagNative
09-12-2009, 08:44 AM
There's no doubt we came away with the prize among the presenters, though I was impressed with David Robinson as well.

I wondered if Michael might have had a cocktail or seven before the event and would wake up this morning and pull the covers over his head, asking himself, "Oh, dear God! Did I really act like such a jerk last night?"

Maybe not. According to this column by Brian Mahoney (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aqfy3ezIlCKT01WU1Iwg9445nYcB?slug=ap-halloffame&prov=ap&type=lgns) on Yahoo sports, this has been a pattern of his. Too bad. While Stockton doubtless made a lot of money, there's no doubt Jordan had even more success financially. And yet it's clear at the end of the day who ended up the richer man in all that matters ...

The word that occurred for me at the close of Jordan's speech: "Rosebud ..."

Jazzgirl_127
09-12-2009, 08:56 AM
I was worried I was the only one who thought Jordan's speech was in extremely poor taste. I can't say I was ever a fan (I always thought his ego got in the way too much for me to admire him) but I think I was more than willing last night to forget about that and just look at him as a player if he could have shown the least bit of integrity or humility in his speech...FAIL! I hate that the media is somehow trying to make it sound like he gave a great speech...seriously did they hear the same obnoxious one I did?! What I would not give to be a fly on the wall the rest of the weekend in Springfield, it really makes me wonder how the NBA players that were there (especially Thomas) are going to treat him now that he's said what's in his heart.

I also thought Stockton's speech was so well written. I can't remember when or what exactly triggered me in becoming a fan of his, but I could honestly not be happier that I did :D I really expected nothing short of grace from him, Sloan, Robinson, and Stringer last night.

BobZag
09-12-2009, 10:20 AM
John is so humble. I'd bet his son David will be, too.

Meanwhile:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-jordanhall091209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

gamagin
09-12-2009, 12:25 PM
and have to say I thoroughly enjoyed it, too. He hit all the best spots and paid all the tributes any great person, athlete, parent, son, sister, brother and friend could possibly offer in front of the whole athletic world.

It was, to put it mildly, complete, perfectly timed and and executed, just like he perfected his roundball game for all those many years.

Back on the day when it was announced that John had been selected 16th overall in the first round by the Jazz, I, along with a dozen or so others, were invited to GU to witness & shoot (photograph) John and interview him as Gonzaga's first team UPI all American and first round NBA draft pick.

The picture that I think is still in the GU halls or perhaps now in the athletic department archives (i don't know) was one of john holding his new Utah # 12 jersey. The photo was taken by then-young Colin Mulvaney (now of the spokesman-review).

Back then Mulvaney was a teenage bag boy at Rosauers and a person whom I had hired as a shooter for my company after he had sold us several pix that he had obtained through his own enterprise.

It turned out to become the "official" GU picture of John -- the one other outlets & the school offered when asked for artwork to go along with the stories they were running.

Why the official photo & that photo ? Because GU, inexperienced in this kind of publicity, or perhaps flustered, or both, had forgotten to get a photographer of their own and solicited permission (and got it) for our picture (after we ran it, of course).

And as far as I know, it still is the official, original, one. Several years ago, I gave Jack Stockton the original photo owned by UPI, even though I am sure John likely had at least one copy of his own. I thought about that when I was listening to the now retired superstar.

A couple of other memories of those days also came to mind as I watched the rerun.

I don't know exactly when it was said, but it wasn't too far along in John's career, Jazz coach Frank Layden, who drafted John, was asked why he selected Stockton. Layden said something like: "Well, he is Catholic, he laughs at my jokes and his dad owns a bar." Layden was also a Catholic.

I watched hundreds of Jazz games over the years, many times sitting with Jack and other neighborhood Jack & Dan regulars. On two different occasions, the Jazz team came to Spokane to play an exhibition game. I think they were both with the sonics, but one may have been against Portland.

Many of the Jazz team members came to Jack and Dan's after that first game, ostensibly to pay tribute to their teammate and his dad, Jack.

Jack was ready for them. When they entered the bar, Jack called Coach Layden up to the bar and then announced he had a gift for the coach and the team. It was wrapped and Layden unwrapped it and found a brand new (very cheap) basketball, in its box, that had been signed by all the Jack and Dan regulars.

"I'm speechless," said Layden in mock gratitude as he held the ball up for all the Jazz players to "admire."



Go Zags ! Go John !

rawkmandale
09-12-2009, 10:27 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4468888

rawkmandale
09-12-2009, 10:33 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/halloffame09/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=090910stocktonHOF

ZagNut08
09-13-2009, 08:13 AM
Great speech. Too bad he had to share the night with Jordan

gamagin
09-13-2009, 03:07 PM
I finally listened to his speech after reading several posts on this thread.

For a few hundred bucks he could have emptied that bile at a psychologists office, gotten it out, and then appeared at the HOF ceremony and shown much more class.

Or, failing that, just bought a speech and read it. Instead he apparently decided to give the raspberry to all those meaningless folks who tried to stop him in his quest. Just standing there was evidence they were wrong. Clearly.

By naming these folks MJ not only compounded the error but was a reflection on his own smallness as a man unable to move on, even as someone who is considered to be the best of the best. He should have thanked his detractors and then not named them if he wanted to get even, imo.

FuManShoes
09-13-2009, 05:51 PM
I liked Jordan's speech. OK, maybe "like" is the wrong word. How about I "accept" it. It was extremely awkward and sinister at times but at least he was honest. He's no ordinary superstar - he's the best to ever play the game and apparently it's what he sought to be from a very young age and he despised anyone doubting him or taking credit for "his" achievements. It was patholological, his obsession with winning and being recognized as the greatest. He achieved so much he was constantly looking for motivation and found it in digs and challenges real and imagined. Yes, he's a grating egomaniac, but I don't know that someone can achieve that level of success without being an egomaniac or becoming one. It wasn't the prettiest speech and it's not a rhetorical model you'd want most folks to follow, but he did answer the question, "What makes Michael Jordan tick?"

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/hall_of_fame/2009/09/11/nba_20090911_hof_jordan_speech.nba/

And then there's this viewpoint, which also has its ring of truth:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-jordanhall091209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

gamagin
09-14-2009, 11:33 AM
and he sort of echoed your sentiments. He didn't like MJ's speech but said it was vintage Jordan.

To me, this means the man is petty and small all of the time, instead of using the forces of tremendous talent, savvy and focus to use all those little slights to spurn him to greater heights ON the floor(whatever works), then let them go when the game is over.

Certainly when the season and career are over. But No.

Apparently MJ is always ON. Which, if that is the case, will make him always act upset about "slights," real & imagined, forever ticked at someone and always complaining about something.

That's no way to live, imo. Certainly not the right note to ring on the way out, either.

A fabulously gifted, famous, miserable rich guy going around acting like a victim. Of what ?

former1dog
09-14-2009, 11:53 AM
He's no ordinary superstar - he's the best to ever play the game and apparently it's what he sought to be from a very young age and he despised anyone doubting him or taking credit for "his" achievements.

I have to comment that a guy like Magic Johnson is within shouting distance in terms of basketball greatness and he seems to have the world class personality to go with his skills.

More than one way to skin a cat, I guess.

kitzbuel
09-14-2009, 05:06 PM
and he sort of echoed your sentiments. He didn't like MJ's speech but said it was vintage Jordan.

To me, this means the man is petty and small all of the time, instead of using the forces of tremendous talent, savvy and focus to use all those little slights to spurn him to greater heights ON the floor(whatever works), then let them go when the game is over.

Certainly when the season and career are over. But No.

Apparently MJ is always ON. Which, if that is the case, will make him always act upset about "slights," real & imagined, forever ticked at someone and always complaining about something.

That's no way to live, imo. Certainly not the right note to ring on the way out, either.

A fabulously gifted, famous, miserable rich guy going around acting like a victim. Of what ?

The problem with this characterization is that is ignores what it is that made MJ excel. His constant and relentless drive is what made him the best. If he was at all capable of being content, he never would have been MJ.

gamagin
09-14-2009, 08:27 PM
The problem with this characterization is that is ignores what it is that made MJ excel. His constant and relentless drive is what made him the best. If he was at all capable of being content, he never would have been MJ.

The point to me is whether a HOF acceptance speech is the proper time and place for MJ, or anyone else, to catalogue & name everyone who ever hurt him or his feelings. I would say it is not. How MJ got into the HOF is a separate matter, imo. I also disagree that he needs to remain a malcontent five years after he stopped playing the game, which was my point.

and despite becoming the brand name for a dozen or so big companies, and all the hype tht went with it, he could not have put those six rings on his fingers without the rest of the team and the organization. No matter how much of a malcontent he was.

Look back to the pre-championship seasons when MJ tried to win it himself and you will see it didn't work, even though he probably came closer than any other one man show in the NBA.

RenoZag
09-14-2009, 08:40 PM
The two posts below are from a Dec 2010 thread discussion of David Stockton; 2wiceright and gamagin were generous with their time and wrote some detailed observations of the young John Stockton. . .

I thought it was fitting to add them to the HOF induction thread.

2wiceright
12-23-2010, 05:24 PM
Here is what I would like to hear from someone who has actual knowledge: John Stockton was "too small" for the Pac-10 (Raveling regretted that conclusion later). I have heard that John got a little bit better every year in college. I personally saw all of his home games when he was a senior but saw none before that. God he was good as a senior! How much better did he get every year from frosh to senior? Was he much better as a freshman/sophmore than David is now? If David puts on 20 lbs of muscle in the next two years and keeps improving like his dad did, will David also be an elite point guard? I'd like to hear some perspective from one of the old Dogs on this board who has a legitmate opinion either way -- I don't want to hear blah blah blah from someone who really doesn't know. My instincts are telling me this is a good investment.

I played with John at Prep. I made varsity with five others sophmore year/ but he was a year behind us (I graduated in '79, he in '80). The next year he too made varsity at G-Prep as a sophmore, but like a said, always a year behind the rest of us. John didn't get much playing time until late Sophmore year. As a sophmore I remember him asking me right before final cuts if I thought he'd make it this year on the team and I told him yes, though I had big doubts because of his size. He was much smaller until Late in Junior year and Senior year. Even back then, we all played year round, difference is without access to gyms we often had to break into places like the Y or sneak into G.U. for pickup games.
Late in (my) junior year John got his first big break and finally got the start over a senior with a bad attitude. I didn't realize it at the time, but that was huge for us, because by the end of his soph. year we were all comfortable with him and were favorites to win city and ranked in state the next year (My senior). As a junior John started point with four of us Seniors. Every day of his life it was amazing how much he improved (we all practiced as much as we could but he truly went from a runt to an equal in a short amount of time). I didn't think of him as special at the time (when we were Seniors and he a Junior). And any of us would have picked one of two other guys on our team to play pro or even Div. 1 ball - not thinking Johnny even had a chance mostly cause of his size (about 5' 10" and Davids Body type).
That year me, him, and one other forward averaged between 8- 12 points a game. Our two big time scorers could easily put up twenty five points or more in a given night (one of those two came in second for point total leaders in the GSL that year), and we won city, districts, and lost in a fluke game in single elimination(back then) in Reginals to Pasco in a last fluke shot type of game.
The year after I graduated we came and watched Johnny play often and to show you how much he was improving He was the GSL leading scorer his senior year. (I forgot to mention before graduating it became apparent how many assists he was accumulating, but none of us had any inkling of what was to come). So his Senior year he was the stud, him and Steve Brown. John was the complete package- scoring and assist champ. By then he was about 6'0 and would maybe gain an inch or two at GU.
In college I played less ball (had some offers) but at 6'3 with an afro no matter how high I could jump I would usually end up in the bleachers at 180. I still got a chance to play with John a couple times his freshman and Junior year and as a defensive "expert" I wanted to see if I could keep up with him. He was a whole different player by then. He put on some weight and his speed was incredible. John and I even ran bloomsday his soph year at GU. I went to state in track in high school and was in good running shape but he had no problem keeping up with me. In fact at the top of doomsday hill, he stopped to throw up and as another friend did that the year before who I ran with I had put in too much time training to end up not finishing. What blew me away I finished in 46:20 and when I looked in the paper he was right behind me and only lost a minute or so off his time! His whole style of basketball changed when we went back east in AAU and played the Chicago All-Stars. I tried covering Isaiha Thomas, but he had a style we all never saw before - sprinting up the court like Meech but in control like David. From then on he was a different player.
When John made the NBA, not that we all weren't rooting for him- in fact we would send him letters but really couldn't fathom him being more than a bench player (and neither could he- it turns out) but he had the courage to prove everyone, especially himself wrong.
John had better size and was stronger than his son at the same time all those years ago. I think David, like his dad, could surprise everyone in a short time- it's just my opinion, as well as that of his older brother Steve, they don't expect that much this early from him ( the rest is up for argument on the board).
On a side not, Johns older brother Steve was a lot like John in a lot of ways. When all us Sophmores made varsity early, some seniors- including Steve got cut from the team. Talk about a late bloomer- watching him in pickup games against John a few years later I could't for the life of me tell who was better- John or Steven. Steve too was a real late bloomer and became "that good"!!! By the way, it was Fitz's connections with Raveling that got John a look at the Olympic team that year w/Barkley, etc. John should have been on that team...Hopefully David will get a quick growth spurt and strengthen up, past that with his Dad's genes there's no telling how good he "could" be in a year or two (it also would do wonders with his shot, and the rest of his game)...

gamagin
12-23-2010, 05:51 PM
Here is what I would like to hear from someone who has actual knowledge: John Stockton was "too small" for the Pac-10 (Raveling regretted that conclusion later). I have heard that John got a little bit better every year in college. I personally saw all of his home games when he was a senior but saw none before that. God he was good as a senior! How much better did he get every year from frosh to senior? Was he much better as a freshman/sophmore than David is now? If David puts on 20 lbs of muscle in the next two years and keeps improving like his dad did, will David also be an elite point guard? I'd like to hear some perspective from one of the old Dogs on this board who has a legitmate opinion either way -- I don't want to hear blah blah blah from someone who really doesn't know. My instincts are telling me this is a good investment.

No one knew how far JS was going to go, least of all JS. I thought, and told his dad several times, I thought he should have played baseball, given his great speed and IQ as a basketball player at Prep & later GU. SO what did I know ?

His dad told me JS planned out his pro career as if he was only likely to remain in the bigs for a season or two (I think he had a 2 year contract, but don't remember for sure). That is, he lived like he was in poverty, saved his signing bonus and salary checks for most of those early years, lived on the cheap, figuring he could compile a nest egg for when the bubble burst and he would have to return to the real world.

Of course it never did happen and therein lies the tale, and I posit, the question you pose: what about David ? Can lightning strike twice in this family ? I don't know.

To me DS shows all the IQ and everything else I saw w/JS at that age. But JS wasn't playing against this quality opponents DS is, nor in arenas & on TV in front of the whole world. JS saw a spotlight or two, in his final year, like the tourney in Oregon, at which he gained a lot of national attention, as I recall.

So it's hard to compare, in fairness, the son with the dad. David's strengths and weaknesses, along with all our zags, are and will be scrutinized all four of his years. On a national level many times and in the WCC every game.

The difference to me, however, between David becoming a college starter, much less a force as a p.g., is how hard he is willing to work to compensate for his many physical disadvantages over the next four years.

and of course, the incredible competition on the Zag roster, now and on its way, has no intention of stepping aside, nor should they, for DS. The list of logical obstacles this kid faces goes on forever.

So what "might" happen to take DS to another level ?

This:

JS was famous for working harder, longer and with more grit and determination than anyone on the Zag or Jazz teams for all of the years he was in uniform: for over two decades.

He is still famous, to this day, for wearing out his opponents in pickup ball. He is relentless. He is nasty (focused) and he is uncompromising, as if the world depended not just on the game at hand, but every nuanced move, or call, or movement or decision. It started when he was in grade school challenging his older brother and has never let up, his dad told me some time ago. He just wore.opponents.down. Stepped right over their exhausted carcasses.

I had friends & relatives, and school mates of his who would say JS would stop a pickup game on the street or in a gym and argue for minutes (or as long as it took) rather than concede a foul, or that he had fouled, or WHATEVER might be considered giving up an advantage, no matter how slight. Such was his determination. Other worldly. Relentless.

re David. I don't know. I don't know about his hunger. If he is that intense. I don't know about his strength and resolve. His mindset. How tough he really is. I only know what I see. And it is very interesting. Brimming with possibilities. He has his dad's court vision and sense of taking charge and pressing the ball and the game, seemingly ready and even eager to push the other team up several notches quickly.

I also know he's already got the best role model, and I would think, mentor, for exactly his circumstance in the basketball world. His dad.

But none of that means anything unless he puts in a superhuman amount of time, sweat and focus to just give himself a chance at the immediate challenge in front of him: to gain additional p.t. this season with the Zags over other teammates who want it just as badly as he does.

Time will tell. I'm not willing to count him out. But I'm not willing to seat any other Zag, either, until he keeps demonstrating he makes the team better with the time he has earned, and therefore deserves more.

That's a long ways from the great career of JS. But, otoh, it is exactly where JS began his climb, too, way back when. JS's grandfather & DS's great grandfather, Houston Stockton, was a very famous Zag football star.

So there is Something in the Stockton genes and the GU history that shouldn't be ignored.

The good news is we lucky fans get to watch a potentially great back story here, at the very least. DS contributes to the continued success of the GU program, just like his dad. Or, at best, we might see a young undersized kid light up the world like his dad did many years ago.

I'm happy either way.

RenoZag
12-23-2010, 08:51 PM
The two posts above are from a Dec 2010 thread discussion of David Stockton; 2wiceright and gamagin were generous with their time and wrote some detailed observations of the young John Stockton. . .