PDA

View Full Version : Would Heytvelt declare for the draft?



Pallet
04-04-2007, 10:45 AM
According to Chad Ford, he's thinking about it. This was written in Ford's column about players declaring for the draft:

ONE FOOT IN THE DOOR
Players who are leaning toward declaring for the draft but haven't officially announced their intentions:

Spencer Hawes, C, Washington
Josh Heytvelt, PF, Gonzaga
Rodney Stuckey, SG, Eastern Washington

I would imagine that Ford has some information about this, so it must be somewhat accurate. In my opinion, Heytvelt should return to school, but I don't know his situation with family and whatnot.
I haven't seem Hawes play much, but from what I've heard, he's an excellent player already. Again, I think that most freshmen should return to school as a matter of course, but money talks.
Stuckey is a phenomenal player and it's not like EWU is going to win championships anytime soon, so if he's ready to play in the NBA, I see no reason for him not to declare.

MBZags
04-04-2007, 10:51 AM
That'd be stupid. He's not a first-rounder anymore (if he ever was), which means no guaranteed contract.

ZagNut08
04-04-2007, 10:59 AM
Assuming he is allowed back on the team I dont think it would be a good idea. Although I think he would eventualy get signed by a team if he did leave this year, he may get stuck in europe or the dleague. I think another year could prove to scouts he has overcome his obstacles and perhaps help his draft stock

tyra
04-04-2007, 11:35 AM
I don't think Josh needs to prove to NBA scouts that he has "overcome his obstacles" if you are referring to his arrest. There isn't much evidence that the NBA cares much about those issues. I just don't think his play has maximized his economic value in the NBA -- yet. While it is true that the NBA drafts more for "potential" than actual past performance, in Josh's case, I think he will do better if he returns to GU and has an excellent season.

hls97
04-04-2007, 11:55 AM
While generally I agree that arrests and other bad behavior may not be considered too carefully by the NBA, I think they do consider such things in the case of marginal players. In other words, if you're not sure about a guy's long-term viability anyway, the fact that he has a checkered past (like Josh) can make a big difference. I don't think Heytvelt would be drafted in the first round, so no guaranteed $$.

IMO, this would be a BIG mistake for Josh (assuming that he would be allowed to return to GU).

NorthoftheBorder
04-04-2007, 11:58 AM
It seems to me that according to the terms of Josh's diversion program, he cannot leave the State of Washington without court approval. It sounds like there would be no problem for him to get permission to get approval to go on road trips with Gonzaga but I doubt the court would give him blanket approval to move to another state and travel around the country without restriction.

dawgman1999
04-04-2007, 12:00 PM
I haven't seem Hawes play much, but from what I've heard, he's an excellent player already. Again, I think that most freshmen should return to school as a matter of course, but money talks.
Stuckey is a phenomenal player and it's not like EWU is going to win championships anytime soon, so if he's ready to play in the NBA, I see no reason for him not to declare.

Hawes is going to declare and not hire an agent:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2003650418_umen04.html

Hawes will be somewhere from 5 - 15. If I have to guess, Hawes will be in the 8 - 10 range more specifically. Heytvelt will not be in the first round. He has not shown improvement from the beginning of the season to the time when he was suspended. As a matter of fact, he regressed during that time. There are also going to be a lot of questions on his character.

That's why I said if Heytvelt and Downs have fantastic individual seasons next year, they are out of the door to the NBA. If Heytvelt IS even thinking about going this year, what do you think he will do if he has a great year next year?

That's why to count on TWO additional great years from both Heytvelt and Downs is ludicrous.

On the other hand, Hawes loves school so much that even he's a sure lottery pick, he will ONLY want to test the water and keep the option of coming back open. I think that's right thing to do for him and his family.

This brings up the point that whether you should recruit those one-and-done kids. Based on this year, the answer is an emphatical YES. Look what Oden and Durant did for their programs. Look at what college experience did for a high character kid like Hawes. If he had to option to go to the NBA last year, he would've gone, and he would've never had the college experience he had now. It's OK to recruit high characters one-and-done kids. It's those selfish one-and-done kids like O.J. Mayo that I don't want to touch. Durant, Oden and Hawes are what's good about CBB, not the O.J. Mayo and Josh Heytvelt type of characters. I could care less about whether those guys leave or stay.

HillBillyZag
04-04-2007, 12:17 PM
For Heaven's sake, I can just see the kid lining up opposite Duncan, Wallace. ShaQ.....etc... They would eat him for lunch. Perhaps in a few years with a lot more experience and Coaching he will be a high draft pick, but in the meantime let him get an education, polish his game, and develop as a person. If one is good enough at the game, the money will aways be there.

dawgman1999
04-04-2007, 12:19 PM
It seems to me that according to the terms of Josh's diversion program, he cannot leave the State of Washington without court approval. It sounds like there would be no problem for him to get permission to get approval to go on road trips with Gonzaga but I doubt the court would give him blanket approval to move to another state and travel around the country without restriction.

I can assure you that the court in Washington will NOT block him moving to another state for a job, in this case, drafted by a team in the NBA. There has been no precedence in ANY states that when a player is NOT arrested, he's not allowed to travel to another state to play. There were worse offense that other athletes commit than what Josh did and allow to play else where. Most recently, you have the Tank Johnson situation where he's allowed to travel to Miami to play the Superbowl. Then you have the Ruben Patterson situation with the Sonics, where he admitted guilt for having sex with an underage girl and was registered as a sex offender in the state of Washington. He was also involved in some domestic violence dispute previously. When he was traded to the Blazers, the court allowed him to go, but the court in Oregon re-register him as a sex offender in that state.

Trust me, there is no precedence for the kind of offense that Josh committ that the court can block him from leaving the state of Washington to make a living. Most likely, his new jurisdition will re-enforce the diversion program he had in the state of Washington, and I think that's fair. There is no legal ground that the State of Washington can block him from making a living. If they did, the NBA players union and Josh Heytvelt will sue the state back to the stone age.

sullyzag66
04-04-2007, 12:19 PM
Well, Hawes can't love school all that much if he's even considering leaving for the NBA. We're all aware of Heytvelt's off-court problems, but lumping him with OJ Mayo doesn't make sense.

DrDrivel
04-04-2007, 12:25 PM
Durant, Oden and Hawes are what's good about CBB, not the O.J. Mayo and Josh Heytvelt type of characters. I could care less about whether those guys leave or stay.

I like you and your contribution to this board. But dude, you lose a lot of credibility when you make such obviously stupid comments like this. Heytvelt is nothing like O.J. Mayo. If you knew him, you'd feel pretty embarassed about this sort of blind, partisan commentary. I've known Josh for a long time and I assure you that you would have welcomed him as a friend and as a college athlete.

I further guarantee that the UW program is just as saturated in the casual drug atmosphere as Gonzaga and every other school in the country. The attention here is as a direct result of one stupid decision tacked onto a series of existing stupid decisions. The existing drug use is not an outlier. It's smack-dab in the middle of the bell curve.

dawgman1999
04-04-2007, 12:27 PM
Well, Hawes can't love school all that much if he's even considering leaving for the NBA. We're all aware of Heytvelt's off-court problems, but lumping him with OJ Mayo doesn't make sense.

You are right, lumping him with Mayo doesn't make sense, because he's worse. At least O.J. Mayo hasn't broken any law.

billyberu
04-04-2007, 12:30 PM
As a matter of fact, he regressed during that time.

Care to back that up with something other than your own sentiment. 'Cause if I want to know what a player is capable of I sure as hell don't ask an opposing teams' fan trolling our website. I also know that his game didn't regress last year as you claim, but I'm sure that will hardly stop you from posting nonsense.

sullyzag66
04-04-2007, 12:32 PM
You are right, lumping him with Mayo doesn't make sense, because he's worse. At least O.J. Mayo hasn't broken any law.
Oh, OK. I think I get it now. :rolleyes:

ZaggyStardust
04-04-2007, 12:33 PM
Durant, Oden and Hawes are what's good about CBB, not the O.J. Mayo and Josh Heytvelt type of characters. I could care less about whether those guys leave or stay.

You know, statements like this are inappropriate here. Why don't you post this kind of drivel here...... (if you feel you must, that is)


http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=147&F=1081#S=147&F=1081

It will be much more appreciated by your "bros" than by the Zags fans.

hls97
04-04-2007, 12:59 PM
I further guarantee that the UW program is just as saturated in the casual drug atmosphere as Gonzaga and every other school in the country. The attention here is as a direct result of one stupid decision tacked onto a series of existing stupid decisions. The existing drug use is not an outlier. It's smack-dab in the middle of the bell curve.

Really? I have no doubt that casual drug use is rampant on college campuses (it certainly was back in the early '90s when I was in college). But, I don't think being caught with the amount that Josh was caught with falls in the middle of the bell curve. That was a serious (felonious) amount.

CDC84
04-04-2007, 12:59 PM
I really question Ford's sources on this folks. I haven't heard even a whisper of JH contemplating the NBA at this point.

Soon after the bust, JH was entirely removed from the 2008 mock list at nbadraft.net. That's 2008, not 2007. His stock couldn't be lower than it is right now.

Qhall43
04-04-2007, 01:03 PM
Mayo was cited for possesion last month. The charges were later dropped when someone else took the fall, but either way the Mayo/Heytvelt analogy is poor at best.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/highschool/news/story?id=2794776

DrDrivel
04-04-2007, 01:08 PM
But, I don't think being caught with the amount that Josh was caught with falls in the middle of the bell curve. That was a serious (felonious) amount.

Precisely my point. Being caught isn't the norm. The use is. That's exactly the argument I'm making. Look, I don't want to throw any of the other Gonzaga players under the bus, but I've been a student at GU for a long, long time and I've seen a lot of student athletes... uh... how shall I say this?... jeopardizing their legal futures? And I don't think it's an anomaly at this particular institution. What is an anomaly in this case is the fact that they were caught.

TexasZagFan
04-04-2007, 01:17 PM
I'm no expert, but given the depth in this draft, who would pick Josh in the first round? Having said that, he can still make good money in Europe.

hls97
04-04-2007, 01:17 PM
Precisely my point. Being caught isn't the norm. The use is. That's exactly the argument I'm making. Look, I don't want to throw any of the other Gonzaga players under the bus, but I've been a student at GU for a long, long time and I've seen a lot of student athletes... uh... how shall I say this?... jeopardizing their legal futures? And I don't think it's an anomaly at this particular institution. What is an anomaly in this case is the fact that they were caught.

We are talking a bit at cross purposes, I think. My point was that having the amount Josh had (not just the getting caught part) is not in the middle of the bell curve. I don't think most students drive around with a baggy THAT full of mushrooms. Plus brownies. It was quite a bit beyond the middle of the bell curve.

gamagin
04-04-2007, 01:31 PM
if JH declared. He just has way too much to learn, and on his plate, imo, to make a serious run.

Whatever he might make for a year or two by declaring would also be chump change compared to the sort of player he could become w/discipline, hard work and focus.

I believe he'd be sacrificing alot of future income as well by going too soon.

OTOH, he has not demonstrated alot of acumen so far in his short life, so I guess even with all the risks involved in jumping to the bigs, it's not impossible that he might go ahead without the learned counsel of this anon. blogger.

Rubbadub
04-04-2007, 01:35 PM
As a matter of fact, he regressed during that time.

I'm not going to defend Josh's off the court problems, as he needs to correct his reputation on his own over time, but he was NOT regressing as the season wore on. His last game he scored 18 and the game before that, if you will recall, at the time we were saying was one of the best performances by a zag to date...he had 22 boards and 27 points. :lmao:

dawgman1999
04-04-2007, 01:51 PM
I want to appologize to the people I offend on this board about the comment I made to Josh Heytvelt. I don't know him personally. I don't know his character. I only know what he was charged with. I don't view him as a symbol that represents GU, which I think is a fine school. Casual drug use is every where in college campus across the country. UW is no exception. We have 65000 students + faculty members in UW, more than 8 times bigger than you guys. Of course, you see drug use on campus as well, just given the sheer size of the student population, you'd expect to see that. I have been approached personally many times by drug dealers when I walked from the campus to the "Ave" (University Avenue next to UW.) So I am sure the drugs are readily available on campus, in dorms, and in frat house. I personally know people who use drugs in UW. But instead of being critical to them, I generally try to help them. I feel that Heytvelt did make a mistake, but he deserves to get a second chance. But I feel to even contemplating leaving GU at this point is a bad decision. I understand he has to do the best for himself and his family. I just don't think what he's doing is going to help himself and his family much. I think if he can stay for at least one more year to prove to the NBA that he's got game, and prove to a lot of the teams that his character issue is an issue in the past, that he will help himself and help his family more.

Yes, I feel watching all the freshman phenoms this year has been fun. With the old rules in the NBA, you'd probably never see Greg Oden, Kevin Durant and to a lesser degree, Spencer Hawes play CBB. The new rule has given us an opportunity and make the college game better, at least better this year. Check out the story on Corey Brewer, writen by his cousin Jerry Brewer, who just moved from the Philladephia Inquiry to the Seattle Times recently. You will appreciate despite all the financial hardship Corey's family endured, he still came back and won a 2nd NC and became the 2007 FF MOP. It's people like Brewer that make CBB more enjoyable to all of us:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/jerrybrewer/2003648559_brewer03.html

tom o dachi
04-04-2007, 01:54 PM
no left hand = no draft

CDC84
04-04-2007, 02:06 PM
no left hand = no draft

Astute observation. Josh desperately needs a countermove going to his left. Everything comes off his right shoulder. That's a large part of the reason why nearly everything he put up in the low post against the Lopez twins got sent back at him. The only success he had against those guys in the Stanford game was when he took them out on the perimeter.

lothar98zag
04-04-2007, 02:32 PM
I really question Ford's sources on this


agreed

D Hark 2003
04-04-2007, 02:57 PM
Dawgman,

IF you think hawes is going to be picked around 8-15 you are crazy. There are waaaaay too many players that are better than Hawes for a guy that didnt even dominate the pac 10 to get drafted that early.

OJ Mayo you have him labeled as selfish and all this stuff, you obviously didnt see Tim Floyd on PTI (Pardon the Interuption). Floyd loves this kid and claims that the media is blowing everything about him out of proportion. I am guessing that you have personally never met him, or seen him play in person, or witnessed any of the things that he is criticized for. So why dont you get off the kids back.

john montana
04-04-2007, 03:08 PM
all i need to see of oj mayo is his final high school play. throw the ball off the backboard from halfcourt and dunk it in a 40 pt blowout...throw the ball in the stands, get kicked out of the game and stand there like some demi-god...real classy.

i hope he changes, but i wouldn't want to play with him.

Bocco
04-04-2007, 03:56 PM
Assuming he is allowed back on the team I dont think it would be a good idea. Although I think he would eventualy get signed by a team if he did leave this year, he may get stuck in europe or the dleague. I think another year could prove to scouts he has overcome his obstacles and perhaps help his draft stock

Going by what Ray Giacoletti said today he as been watching JH play and will be working with him, so it sounds like he will be allowed back on the team. Mark Few indicated the same in a recent interview so it think we can all drop the "if he is allowed back on the team statements" If Josh is not back next year it will be for other reasons.