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Reborn
07-06-2009, 06:47 PM
playing their summer ball on their national teams and not being back at Gonzaga University playing with their new teammates, and becoming Zags?

I think it's a good question, and a concern that I have because the team is going to be so young next year. I think that many fans here on GUBoard believe that these four student athletes will contribute next year. If that is true I fear that the cohesiveness and team chemistry that is so necessary to win, and that we talk so much about as the season progresses, is just not going to be good next year. At best it will not be good until the end of the year. The good news is that Poling and Gibbs are there, as is Will Foster and GJ. I am thinking more and more that the foreign students will have less of a role than I originally thought. If they can contribute 10 min a game, which will force us into a very simple style of play, that could work. What do you all think?

CanadianZagFan
07-06-2009, 06:55 PM
These players are getting great coaching and playing at a high level, how can that hurt? There will be tonnes of practice time and pick-up games to build chemistry come August September.

Rangerzag
07-06-2009, 06:57 PM
Good question. You need to balance in the confidence factor gained by playing against pretty fair competition. How does it weigh out? Still a good question.

hooter73
07-06-2009, 07:05 PM
Not to doubt the very important thing that is team integrity/cohesiveness, but I'd think coaching and playing against varied talented players in real games rather than pick up ball and school yard rules would be more beneficial especially for those who havent seen any playing time in a year (Sacre). JMO.

kyle dixon
07-06-2009, 07:13 PM
I think something also should be said about representing your country in a competition. This is something that you can take to your grave. This opportunity may not ever be available to someone again in their life and you need to live in the now.

Live competition is important. I agree that plenty of pick up can be learned in early August and September before camp begins in October.

snebzag
07-06-2009, 07:25 PM
Very good question Reborn.

Rob needs the work coming off injury, already knows the system and staff. Knows his role next season and has more enthusiasm than a Michael Jackson fan.

Manny made it here. Probably saw more and went through more than any of us could imagine. He will be fine.

EH is a little older, may hold up Ok, but has many challenges ahead with school and relocation. Might see some wear and tear from that on him.

KO will most likely suffer the biggest transformation challenges. Young enough not to realize it.

All in all, none of us know who will be ready to step up early or late. I know my opinion is all speculation. I think all of the guys will be ready to prove they can contribute. Can't wait. I still think Andy Poling and Sam Dower will be big. GG could be in a better postion with that chemistry of the system from watching last year, might be a surprise, but I do think the faster guards will get more playing time for defensive reasons alone.
So I guess I'm saying Rob will benefit the most. Ok done.

ZagManFan
07-06-2009, 08:06 PM
I think they will be fine. Why you ask? I recall someone on this current roster that played for team USA not to long ago. I think he turned out pretty good and the chemistry with him and the rest of the team looks fine to me.:)

MickMick
07-06-2009, 08:14 PM
Here is a good example:

How hard was it for Patty Mills to make the transition from AIS?

Basketball is basketball and the cream rises to the top.

Angelo Roncalli
07-06-2009, 08:44 PM
Rob needs to play. The more the better. I believe playing against high level competition in international competition is going to be better for him
than working at camps, playing pick up ball, and individual/small group workouts he would get until school starts.

As to the other guys...the biggest advantage to having them on campus for second summer session would not be so much would they would gain in pick-up games and individual workouts with the coaches, but in taking a class or two and getting ahead in the classroom so that they can carry 12-14 credits per
semester their freshman year year instead of 15-17.

I just don't know about the team chemistry thing. The A's, Yankees and Dodgers in the mid-to late '70's had notoriously poor team chemistry (including Reggie Jackson's battles with his managers)...all three teams played in multiple World Series during that time (and all won World Series). Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig despised each other. The 2000 Sonics, a playoff team, had two guys--Peyton and Maxwell--who got into a locker room brawl that involved throwing dumbbells at each other. If the choice is chemistry or talent, I'll take talent.

Reborn
07-06-2009, 08:49 PM
I still think Andy Poling and Sam Dower will be big. GG could be in a better postion with that chemistry of the system from watching last year, might be a surprise, but I do think the faster guards will get more playing time for defensive reasons alone.
So I guess I'm saying Rob will benefit the most. Ok done.

I did forget that Dower is here as well. So we do have:

Matt
Steven
Meech
Will Foster
Grant Gibbs
Poling
Dower
GJ
Stockton

Who out of these guys is playing the 4? So basically you have a team functioning on less than all parts. I am glad that Dower is here, and possible he will be the 4. I believe that his presence on campus, will definately help him. Just my opinon.

Yes, Patty Mills did fit in pretty quickly but Patty Mills was also the Main Man from the get go, and their offense ran through him. Or better yet, He ran their offense. That will not happen to any of these freshman, imo. And if you believe that team chemistry and cohesiveness happens automatically, then I will respect your opinion. But in mine, I think it's been a few years since the team has had the type of chemistry to go deep into the tournament in March. I think last year, the chemistry WAS missing early on, and it did cause some problem, just my opinion, and we had two guys who were off playing on different teams last summer, Pargo and Matt. I think Pargo, in particular was hurt by his summer experience with NBA prospects. Matt, certainly did not benefit much from his, and I noticed that he did decline to do it this year, and I respect his choice. I also seriously doubt if these tournaments going on over in Europe, ect. are really even being noticed by the gereral basketball audience. I think their importance is not all that serious at 19 years old, but I could be wrong. I'm just asking. Why I am asking a question like that? Why NOT. What's wrong with asking a simple question in the first week of July? You'd think that I was a turncoat or something similar. I'm not one who's afraid to ask questions in hope of a good discussion. I'm a pretty open minded person. To ignor questions is pure blindness, just my opinion. Yet, I know that for some people it's better to be blind.

cjm720
07-07-2009, 06:40 AM
Poling and Dower are natural 4s; Foster and Sacree are 5s.

I think our guys are getting a good blend of international competition and on campus practice time. IMO, Harris needs to get to the USA asap to acclimate to our culture and game. Sacree needs as many games as he can get. And Manny's knee worries me. I am beginning to get the most pumped for Poling...sounds like he really has taken advantage of his RS year. He could be absolutely huge for us.

go zags!!!!

Baldwinzag
07-07-2009, 07:55 AM
As Angelo eluded to, the "Summer spent at Gonzaga" is much more important from an academic standpoint rather than a team chemistry or development standpoint. For example, Sam Dower mentioned he arrived on campus June 24th to attend Summer school and participate in a few on-campus basketball camps until August 8th. Once August 8th rolls around and he completes the Summer-term requirements, Dower is planning to return home to Twin Cities for a few weeks prior to starting school again at the end of August, just like everyone else. Essentially, the newcomers arrive on campus early to knock off a few class credits to ease their transition during the year. While Sam is working out every day, playing a few pick-up games with the guys, and attending a couple camps, he's here for the schoolwork and spending only 6 weeks of his Summer at GU. This is directly from the horses mouth. If you consider the majority of our players, including Bouldin, Gray, Gibbs, Meech, etc are only playing together around 6 weeks in a casual basketball environment, I don't see the harm in missing the Summer to compete at a high level(game speed) all Summer long. More power to the Canadian Trio!

former1dog
07-07-2009, 09:16 AM
Are the Zags being hurt by the 4 young men

Who are these 4 young men and why would they want to hurt the Zags? Terrorists? ;)

zag67
07-07-2009, 10:06 AM
He is talking about Harris (playing for Germany) and then Olynyk, Arop, and Sacre (playing for Canada). In doing so they are not at GU for the summer quarter.

former1dog
07-07-2009, 10:37 AM
He is talking about Harris (playing for Germany) and then Olynyk, Arop, and Sacre (playing for Canada). In doing so they are not at GU for the summer quarter.

Um, it was (dumb) joke. A play on words.

Sorry. :o

hooter73
07-07-2009, 10:42 AM
The point of summer school I didnt think of and that is a really good option. Knock out a few credits to take less during the year and get acclimated to the college level studies while still going home again before the main year starts. Very good call.

I do think there has been a lack of team cohesiveness in the past couple years but dont really think a person can pinpoint one direct cause. Pargo and Bouldin not being around last summer I do not think attributed to it as much as the prospects of the future guys like Pargo and Daye had during the year. Even if just for one possession every other game if they were trying to showcase themselves to scouts then it hurts the team feeling. I think Josh was the least guilty of this myself.

Its been mentioned before but the type of players recruited has an impact on the team dynamic. A high level recruit might have a bit more of an attitude than a very good but slightly overlooked player like Sean Mallon or David Pendergraft. I think the recent recruits like Poling and Gibbs are a bit more traditional Gonzaga style than some others, but it is all in how they interact on the team, on the court, and in the community.

former1dog
07-07-2009, 11:16 AM
A high level recruit might have a bit more of an attitude than a very good but slightly overlooked player like Sean Mallon or David Pendergraft.

Just a small note in the interest of accuracy. Pendo was a highly sought after recruit and the only reason there was less hype around his recruitment was due to the fact that he committed so early to Gonzaga.

SpokastSports
07-07-2009, 07:58 PM
so you're saying these highly sought after recruits can't be decent guys? If you're going to talk about Austin (as many do...) then you should be aware that there are different characteristics from everybody. Some grow up faster than others. Some wear their hearts on their sleeves, some don't.

Reborn
07-08-2009, 07:22 AM
My answer to this question is a definite NO. I thank everyone who got into this discussion, and great ideas were shared. I think the play against very good competion only helps these guys. I especially think it's really helping Arop because he is shining like a bright star. I am really excited to see him play his first game at GU.

Has anyone heard about what Harris is doing? I thought he was playing in this tournament FIBA.

cjm720
07-08-2009, 07:29 AM
Where are Harris and Sacre?

Angelo Roncalli
07-08-2009, 07:39 AM
Sacre is with the Canadian men's national team (too old for the U19 team that Arop and Olynyk are playing with).

ZagNative
07-08-2009, 07:44 AM
I just put up a post about Elias here (http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=21559). Hadn't seen your question yet, reborn, when I posted.

Rio Runner
07-08-2009, 06:17 PM
I think something also should be said about representing your country in a competition. This is something that you can take to your grave. This opportunity may not ever be available to someone again in their life and you need to live in the now.

Agreed. If Gonzaga started discouraging its players from playing for their country, players would then have to choose between playing for their school and playing for their country. I don't think the coaches want to put the kids in that spot. Not to mention, it would hurt future recruiting.

ronh_pm
07-08-2009, 06:39 PM
Very good question Reborn.
KO will most likely suffer the biggest transformation challenges. Young enough not to realize it.


Kelly is indeed young, turning 18 just 3 months ago.

Kelly and Manny by the end of this tourney, and the Canada summer basketball program, will have spent quite a bit of time together hopefully forming trust and familiarity on the court and a friendship off the court.

This should help both as they enter a very new world at Gonzaga and having someone with you that you know and trust, who is in the same situation you are, will be pretty importent to both as they merge into thier new environments.