PDA

View Full Version : Didn't we have this discussion?-



NYCZAG
05-30-2009, 09:40 AM
Mills was faster than Lawson?-I said Mills was and was laughed at-Nbadraft.net

Patrick Mills Saint Mary's -- Might be the fastest guard in the draft (Collison and Lawson included). The injury really diminished his play late in the season so he'll have a decision to make. Really sets his feet well on every shot, excellent form.

J-Mac Zag Forever
05-30-2009, 09:48 AM
I would take Lawson. One person,s view does not make it
so!

NYCZAG
05-30-2009, 10:15 AM
Lawson is so overrated-But then again the lineage of great North Carolina point guards goes on and on-Oh wait they don't have any great point guards-Gonzaga has one of the best ever if I remember-LAWSON=BUST-Along with Hansborough-

bballbeachbum
05-30-2009, 10:35 AM
Funny NYC, seems right on. Kenny Smith is the only UNC point I can think of who truly excelled in the association like he did in college, at least over the last 30 years. who am I forgetting? those guys sure ruled in college tho...Ford, Black, Cota, Felton, probably a couple others

why don't they translate well?

MDABE80
05-30-2009, 10:52 AM
Mills was faster than Lawson?-I said Mills was and was laughed at-Nbadraft.net

Patrick Mills Saint Mary's -- Might be the fastest guard in the draft (Collison and Lawson included). The injury really diminished his play late in the season so he'll have a decision to make. Really sets his feet well on every shot, excellent form.

Just because some NBADraft scribe hints ( ie might) at itnothing makes it true. It's more like an opinion. Both are quick enough. I dunno how anyone could say one is faster than the other without a head to head sprint. Meech is quicker than GJ.....who could know? And does it matter when both have blazing cornerback speed???

CDC84
05-30-2009, 12:01 PM
Lawson has one thing now that Mills doesn't have, and that's a consistent jump shot.

dim4sum
05-30-2009, 12:34 PM
One of the great mysteries of our time (maybe just my time) is why these so-called overrrated PGs like Lawson have career nights, especially in the first half beyond the arc, against the Zags. Others are Singletary, the guard from

Western Kentucky, Mills in the first half (pre-injury), etc.

JPtheBeasta
05-31-2009, 04:24 PM
One of the great mysteries of our time (maybe just my time) is why these so-called overrrated PGs like Lawson have career nights, especially in the first half beyond the arc, against the Zags. Others are Singletary, the guard from

Western Kentucky, Mills in the first half (pre-injury), etc.

...Nick Wise, Tatum, Price, Dominguez.

I've wondered the same thing from time to time. Maybe it's our traditional lack of height at the PG spot. Maybe it's defensive scheme. Maybe it's dumb luck. I can say I hate watching a game and thinking "We would have won that if Player X didn't go off on us." I suppose every fan goes through that at times but my stomach couldn't handle watching that Western Kentucky game (thinking at the time, "Here we go again..."). Ugh. I think I just threw up in my mouth a bit.

Bing
05-31-2009, 05:38 PM
Mills was faster than Lawson?-I said Mills was and was laughed at-Nbadraft.net
Patrick Mills Saint Mary's -- Might be the fastest guard in the draft (Collison and Lawson included). The injury really diminished his play late in the season so he'll have a decision to make. Really sets his feet well on every shot, excellent form.

http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=20271

Please point out where this happened.

NYCZAG
05-31-2009, 06:28 PM
I was making a point that people here felt Lawson was faster than Mills-Thank You for your sleuth abilities I will hire you when someone eats the last cookie-;)-

MDABE80
05-31-2009, 09:44 PM
Noticing that the data clearly shows Lawson has never been as bad but has always been better than Mills in 3 pt shooting (ie long distance shooting).....it's best to review the column second to the right from the end. This column confirms CDC's contention that Lawson has a far superior 3 pt shooting record when compared to Mills. This past season, it's not even close. Everyone (newcomers included) should always be mindful that CDC is usually correct in his statements.....:)

Lawson's Data:

MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
2006-2007 25.7 10.2 2.9 5.6 2.2 2.57 1.5 .1 2.4 .500 .688 .356 1.38
2007-2008 25.3 12.7 2.7 5.2 2.2 2.36 1.6 .0 1.8 .515 .835 .361 1.49
2008-2009 29.9 16.6 3.0 6.6 1.9 3.48 2.1 .1 1.7 .532 .798 .472 1.70

Mill's Data:

Season Averages
SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
2007-2008 32.1 14.8 2.1 3.5 2.8 1.22 1.8 .1 1.6 .429 .761 .323 1.26
2008-2009 33.3 18.4 2.4 3.9 2.9 1.35 2.2 .2 1.7 .402 .859 .338 1.18

This includes field goal shooting as well. This is the 4th column from the far right. Thanking you in advance, I remain....Abe

Zag79
05-31-2009, 09:45 PM
pargo and bouldin shot better from 3 than mills. lawson was better than matty and pargo. lawson was the best over all player out of this group, followed by pargo, matty, and then mills.

LongIslandZagFan
06-01-2009, 07:23 AM
Mills has one major thing that Lawson does not... that is experience playing against some of the best talent in the NBA. If I recall correctly, I think he did a little more than alright. Will Lawson be a bust, dunno. But I think Patty will be the real deal at the next level.

MDABE80
06-01-2009, 10:41 AM
Lawson 3 pt data:

3PtMade 3Pt att
2006-2007 31 87
2007-2008 30 83
2008-2009 51 108

Mills 3 pt data:

SEASON 3PtM 3PA
2007-2008 61 189
2008-2009 67 198

So the logic is this: if someone shoots more, he's more likely to miss? Seems but the opposite occurs in both Lawson's and Mills'cases ie the more they shot, the better the statistics were. The real issue is whether the data is a sample large enough to be representative. Review of all PG's 3 pt shooting in the ACC, WCC, Pac X and the SEC suggest that both Lawson and Mills shot as much or more than PG's..... and was the standard for PG's in those leagues. Argument defeated.

Next?.....

hoopster777
06-01-2009, 01:35 PM
Lawson has one thing now that Mills doesn't have, and that's a consistent jump shot.


That and an NCAA title

hoopster777
06-01-2009, 01:58 PM
Mills has one major thing that Lawson does not... that is experience playing against some of the best talent in the NBA. If I recall correctly, I think he did a little more than alright. Will Lawson be a bust, dunno. But I think Patty will be the real deal at the next level.


I personally think Mills is WAY too hyped up based on some performances in the Olympics. So 6-7 games in the Olympics gives him more experience than Lawson, who played 3 years of college (vs. Mills who played 1 1/2?). And he scores 20 points, on 44% shooting against the US, but his team still lost by 31 points. Does the kid from USC-Upstate get praise for putting in 20 points against GU in a losing effort? People put wayyyy too much emphasis on his performance against the US, but he was one of the 3-4 most talented players on the Australian side, of course he'll get his points. However he was pretty disappointing against Croatia/Russia, and average the rest of the way through, yet this performance gives people the idea that he is going to be a great NBA player.

And dont get me wrong, I think Mills is a good point guard who probably will start in his his career. But I can't imagine him being any better than someone like Derek Fischer, which is pretty good in my opinion. Fischer is a small point guard who has a nice shot from outside the arc, and is quick. He's a great leader too. But people on this board really hype him up as the next Chris Paul. I just dont see Mills being the go-to option type point guard.

bullzag23
06-01-2009, 02:23 PM
Point was Lawson doesn't try and create three point shots and take NBA range 3 point shots with a guy in his face. Mills does. Thats what I was getting at. But I bet you swing from Lawsons' You know whats because you love ESPN and UNC hype. I'm surprised you even cheer for Gonzaga.

While I will agree with your general point that Lawson had so much talent around him that he was taking many more open 3's than Mills, there's really no need to start questioning someone's fanhood simply because they show evidence contrary to your argument. If Patty Mills had been on UNC instead of SMC his percentages may have increase simply to his being open more often. However, given the vast difference in 3pt FG% between the two players this year, I doubt that change would have increased Patty's 3pt% by 13.4%, the difference from this past season.

hoopster777
06-01-2009, 02:46 PM
I see Mills being a star, and I don't see Lawson being a star. I could be wrong on both and I admit that.

As far as three point shooting percentage, you can throw that stat out in this situation. How many did Lawson actually shoot? I'm guessing not near as much as Patty. Lawson had a team full of NBA talent, Mills plays for SMC. He had to be the man, he takes WAY more shots, which is going to result in a lower percentage. Lawson usually just shoots wide open easy 3's while Mills sometimes takes circus shots. Steph Curry had some absolutely terrible shooting performances, and I'm guessing his 3 point percentage wasn't very good either.


Just so you know, UNC's success depended on how well Lawson performed/if he even played. In their losses he was either not in the roster, or played very poorly (except in the Maryland loss, but Vazquez went crazy that game). He really was the driving force for UNC, and despite having a lot of talent around him, UNC still went as far as they did because of Lawson. He was that important to UNC's success, and deserved ACC player of the year.

MDABE80
06-01-2009, 02:58 PM
Point was Lawson doesn't try and create three point shots and take NBA range 3 point shots with a guy in his face. Mills does. Thats what I was getting at. But I bet you swing from Lawsons' You know whats because you love ESPN and UNC hype. I'm surprised you even cheer for Gonzaga.

Son...what I DO know is the data. It speaks for itself. Thinking Lawson is better or worse isn't the point. And now you've been defeated with REAL logic and REAL data....and "That's what I was getting at " is NOT what you were getting at. Now you morphed the discussion into something never mentioned. I don't think any of the elders on this board would question my loyalties. "But I bet you swing from Lawsons' "<--...perhaps you might enough courage to complete this half sentence? I'd like you to so we can all see the type of fella you might be...go ahead....

But when you're wrong you're wrong. In this case dead wrong. Best to man up, admit it and move on. On this board we like opinions to be supported or we might just as well be talking to someone who just chats and chats.....and well.......chats. Discourse is best when facts or at least some semblance of logic is apparent. The end.

Zag79
06-01-2009, 09:11 PM
mills is so over hyped i want to puke everytime i read that he is so good. pargo and matt were better than mills across the board. 3 pt %, assist to TO ratio, rebounds, there play speaks for itself. mills did what one guy on every team USA faced. he shot alot and scored 20. wow. neat. mills is the last guy i would take in a group of lawson, matt, pargo and himself. lawson is better than matt and pargo, and mills even more so.