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zagsrelite
05-03-2009, 06:24 PM
Does anyone know how we stack up in this years recruiting rankings with the "experts" (rivals, scout, etc)?

I know we are far and above the rest of the WCC, but how do we stack up if we were in the Pac 10?

I realize UCLA and Washington out did us, but would we be third. I heard Oregon State did okay with their year.

Thanks

BroncoZAG615
05-03-2009, 06:57 PM
More than any other recruiting class I've ever seen, this one is nearly impossible to put any sort of ranking or grade on. Don't expect the big sites like Rivals or Scout to put Gonzaga terribly high when it is all said and done because they only list us as having Manny, GJ, and Sam at this point in our class. Kong, Harris, and Olynyk are all well off their radar because guys like John Wall and Lance Stephenson have every writer over there in a tizzy. From what I understand, with the addition of GJ our class has to be one of the best on the West Coast and two years down the line I really think it is going to prove to be absolutely sensational.

kitzbuel
05-03-2009, 07:05 PM
You will also have to prove to me how Washington out did GU. Abdul Gaddy does not make a team.

DADoZAG
05-04-2009, 06:46 AM
From what I understand, with the addition of GJ our class has to be one of the best on the West Coast and two years down the line I really think it is going to prove to be absolutely sensational.

Agreed! Next year's class will be something to watch with a year under their belt.

Although the realization that it would never happen is obvious, I can't help but wonder what the team would be like in 2010-2011... ...if Matty was to redshirt next year.

75Zag
05-04-2009, 07:33 AM
If you are a Bulldog fan you ignore the Scout and Rival ratings on recruits. Hell will freeze over before GU equals the Elite schools in recruiting McDonald players or large numbers of 4 and 5 star kids. But look at UCLA this year. Overloaded with Burger Boys and a pretty crappy season.

I admit I would like to see one or two 5 star power forwards come to GU before I die (perhaps Kevin Love's illegitimate stepchild), but aside from my selfish dreams, I believe that the coaching staff agrees with me that the GU program needs to take what it can get, and use those available kids as a foundation to try and make it into the late rounds of the NCAA. Winning in the NCAA is what matters, not the pedigree of your players.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

thebigsmoove
05-04-2009, 10:11 AM
It doesnt matter what the rankings say...ESPN, Rivals.com, Scout.com, etc. will all be different and the rankings are fickle anyways. If you ask me, getting 3 players from canada, one from Germany, and 2 from the states, when all is said and done, everyone will look back and say Wow, Mr. Few done did it again. He is a master at finding value in places where others see walk-ons and D2 projects...That being said, this coaching staff will not just take anyone, we dont want just random bodies, we want players who can play team ball and who have the raw skills to eventually contribute. Players like Guy-Marc Michel who want to be Zags more than anything may never get a scholarship because they do not have the talent to play at this level. doesnt mean he wont walk on next year, but you get the point...

CDC84
05-04-2009, 10:15 AM
I have to admit....I am very much looking forward to the Maui Invitational and hearing Bilas and other ESPN analysts commenting about how talented some of these new players are. I don't think people realize what they're in for.

hoopster777
05-04-2009, 10:39 AM
If you are a Bulldog fan you ignore the Scout and Rival ratings on recruits. Hell will freeze over before GU equals the Elite schools in recruiting McDonald players or large numbers of 4 and 5 star kids. But look at UCLA this year. Overloaded with Burger Boys and a pretty crappy season.

I admit I would like to see one or two 5 star power forwards come to GU before I die (perhaps Kevin Love's illegitimate stepchild), but aside from my selfish dreams, I believe that the coaching staff agrees with me that the GU program needs to take what it can get, and use those available kids as a foundation to try and make it into the late rounds of the NCAA. Winning in the NCAA is what matters, not the pedigree of your players.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

It makes no sense at all for Gonzaga to recruit guys like Kevin Love who are one and done. Gonzaga has always built teams on chemistry, and developed chemistry over the years. Our success is built on players staying multiple years in order to pass on the success to the next class. With the exception of Daye (who still gave the program a solid two years), few players have come into Gonzaga and not committed to the program before their long term ambitious goals. Guys like Sidney, Wall, Stephenson, Cousins.....they are all just in it for the year and then jump the NBA. Its not about the team as much as it is about their own ambitions and frankly I dont think Gonzaga needs that kind of player in its program.

MJGoGaels
05-04-2009, 01:19 PM
Does anyone know how we stack up in this years recruiting rankings with the "experts" (rivals, scout, etc)?

I know we are far and above the rest of the WCC, ... ?

Thanks

Really? :link:

JohnOGU
05-04-2009, 01:39 PM
we're top 2 in the west. no doubt about it.

xjzico
05-04-2009, 02:01 PM
Really? :link:

WCC ESPN Scout Rankings (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/conference?confId=29&season=2009&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fconference%3fconfId%3d29 %26season%3d2009)

A poster (http://members4.boardhost.com/donscentral/msg/1241034836.html) from DonsCentral provided the above link.

According to their rankings it doesn't appear the Zags class is heads above the WCC. Of course they haven't seen Olynyk, who it's rumored had decent offers, and omits Kong and Harris. Anyway, the other WCC schools seem to have some solid classes.

I don't see how we could be the clear cut second best with three question marks. Reports are great on those three but I wouldn't fault anyone for being skeptical.

UberZagFan
05-04-2009, 02:41 PM
You will also have to prove to me how Washington out did GU. Abdul Gaddy does not make a team.

Nope, but he sure makes everyone around him a ton better.

cbbfanatic
05-04-2009, 02:50 PM
You will also have to prove to me how Washington out did GU. Abdul Gaddy does not make a team.

i think they bring in 3 other kids too... top 150 types. ill take 3 top 150s and an abdul gaddy over what GU might bring in, but thats just me

zag67
05-04-2009, 03:18 PM
CBB, in this case I think that you might be wrong. I am not sure about Wilcox, but I think that they will have trouble keeping Clarence in school (grades) and I think that Gaddy will be a one and out (maybe 2, but not more).

I would rather have the class we have that you can build a system and team around. You have Dower and Harris compared to Clarence. You have Arop and Olynyk compared to Wilcox. We have Kong against their noone at the 4 and then we have GJ against Gaddy, which I would give to them now, but maybe not at both ends of the court.

NEC26
05-04-2009, 03:25 PM
CBB, in this case I think that you might be wrong. I am not sure about Wilcox, but I think that they will have trouble keeping Clarence in school (grades) and I think that Gaddy will be a one and out (maybe 2, but not more).

I would rather have the class we have that you can build a system and team around. You have Dower and Harris compared to Clarence. You have Arop and Olynyk compared to Wilcox. We have Kong against their noone at the 4 and then we have GJ against Gaddy, which I would give to them now, but maybe not at both ends of the court.

Not sure about the other recruits or their rankings but Abdul will be at UW for at least 2 years because of his age.

IronLions
05-04-2009, 03:39 PM
Does anyone know how we stack up in this years recruiting rankings with the "experts" (rivals, scout, etc)?

I know we are far and above the rest of the WCC, but how do we stack up if we were in the Pac 10?

I realize UCLA and Washington out did us, but would we be third. I heard Oregon State did okay with their year.

Thanks

Far and above... not really.

Nevtelen
05-04-2009, 04:11 PM
i think they bring in 3 other kids too... top 150 types. ill take 3 top 150s and an abdul gaddy over what GU might bring in, but thats just me

Obviously it comes down to the players, but I disagree. The good thing is a couple of seasons down the line, we can look back at this and see.

I would undoubtedly take Gaddy any day of the week and twice on game-day, but I really do think that GU's incoming class has a chance to be something special overall. The bottom line is it's hard for anyone to say really how good GU's class is with so many international players, nearly all of whom have only been seen once or twice if at all by any recruiting analysts (and probably not recently). Other players are not even listed by analysts, which shows how little is known about the situation. If they'd played in the U.S., I think GU would have several top 150 players coming in (I'd bet on at least 3). I do believe that Arop is a top 100 player, even so.

BTW, I think St Mary's is sort of in a similar situation. They have a ton of Australian players coming in again, IIRC, who played at the AIS and who knows what they'll be like - plus the redshirted players from last season. It should be interesting to see what they're like this season.

mainer6
05-04-2009, 05:27 PM
WCC ESPN Scout Rankings (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/conference?confId=29&season=2009&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fconference%3fconfId%3d29 %26season%3d2009)

A poster (http://members4.boardhost.com/donscentral/msg/1241034836.html) from DonsCentral provided the above link.

According to their rankings it doesn't appear the Zags class is heads above the WCC. Of course they haven't seen Olynyk, who it's rumored had decent offers, and omits Kong and Harris. Anyway, the other WCC schools seem to have some solid classes.

I don't see how we could be the clear cut second best with three question marks. Reports are great on those three but I wouldn't fault anyone for being skeptical.

Nice job with this link. Honestly, I am disappointed that GU is not looking better than they are.

wazZag
05-04-2009, 05:59 PM
Nice job with this link. Honestly, I am disappointed that GU is not looking better than they are.

To a certain extent, I agree. I would like to see GU head and shoulders above the WCC in recruiting rankings. In years where GU takes alot of international players, that isn't going to happen due to the generally national scope of ranking companies. However, if international recruiting is well executed, I'll take on the court success over the recruiting sites.

Based upon the link from DonsCentral, it is interesting to see how the WCC schools have raised their level of recruiting (at least according to the rankings gurus) over the few years that are listed. That is good news for all eight WCC schools.

cbbfanatic
05-04-2009, 06:43 PM
CBB, in this case I think that you might be wrong. I am not sure about Wilcox, but I think that they will have trouble keeping Clarence in school (grades) and I think that Gaddy will be a one and out (maybe 2, but not more).

I would rather have the class we have that you can build a system and team around. You have Dower and Harris compared to Clarence. You have Arop and Olynyk compared to Wilcox. We have Kong against their noone at the 4 and then we have GJ against Gaddy, which I would give to them now, but maybe not at both ends of the court.

i absolutely could be wrong. just trying to point out that one could easily argue for the huskies class in this situation. neither is head and shoulders above the other. time will tell.

you point to some uncertainty with trent (and id agree), but the zags class has some uncertainty too (kong).

a lot of fan bases probably think that their incoming class has that "special" potential. most top 150, top 200 range kids will have very impressive press clippings, i think the fact that people here might be a little more immersed in gonzagas class can blur the view on what everyone else is bringing in. i mean, is this class GU is bringing in even considered a top 25 class (for whatever that is worth)?

Nevtelen
05-04-2009, 08:21 PM
a lot of fan bases probably think that their incoming class has that "special" potential. most top 150, top 200 range kids will have very impressive press clippings, i think the fact that people here might be a little more immersed in gonzagas class can blur the view on what everyone else is bringing in. i mean, is this class GU is bringing in even considered a top 25 class (for whatever that is worth)?

As with any class for any school that includes a large amount of international players who haven't had much attention from recruiting analysts, there is no way GU's class could be considered a top 25 class. Heck, I haven't even seen 1 analyst who has all the incoming players in their take. Scout only lists Dower, Vilarino, and Arop IIRC. But will the class make an impact similar to other recruting classes in, say the top 25 in the country? My guess would be yes, but we'll just have to wait and see.

CDC84
05-04-2009, 08:26 PM
Demetri Goodson was a three star player with Rivals and Scout. He's better than at least half of the 2008 top 100 players listed on those sites. Jeff Capel at Oklahoma really wishes he would have had him last year. OU lacked guard depth. And Meech would've started at Texas last year over Dogus Balbay if their staff had not misevaluated him due to his size. Their coaches knew they blew it when Meech started playing at a high level in the Texas/Gonzaga scrimmage last November.

Guys like Meech Goodson just don't keep appearing at Gonzaga due to strange weather patterns and the alignment of the stars. No matter what people think of the strength of each of their recruiting classes, the Zags still manage to get a rotation of 8 or so guys who could play for most top 25 teams. And they've done it for the better part of a decade now. I don't see the trend changing.

USF
05-04-2009, 08:40 PM
I don't think that's fair to say. All someone did was credit the DonsCentral Board for a link to the ESPN WCC Recruiting Rankings. They didn't refer to anyone's post or opinion. I think that's fair to do and it can provide a somewhat unbiased report on WCC recruits. Someone above stated an opinion that the Gonzaga recruiting class was far and away better that the other WCC classes. All the St. Mary's fan did was to ask for some basis for that opinion.

I am excited about my Dons' recruiting class this season and it looks like Loyola has a really good group coming in. St. Mary's signed some top Australians too.

But nobody can really rank a group of recruits until we see them on the court.

I also think that a lot of the members of this board read the DonsCentral board as well. I read all of the WCC boards. I wish that they were more active, however. It seems like your board and the DonsCentral board are by far the most active (and interesting).

dawgfather11
05-04-2009, 08:44 PM
You will also have to prove to me how Washington out did GU. Abdul Gaddy does not make a team.

I realize that when it's all said and done this GU class might be better than UW's but let's get real... Off of the rankings provided in this thread UW's lowest rated player is graded out as the same as GU's highest rated. Not to mention UW has 2 top 75 players and one of those is top 10 it's not even close between the 2 schools.

As to pac-10 classes top 3 are UCLA UW Zona and if zona pulls in lance stephenson like some are thinking they will prolly have the top class in the pac-10. Gu would most likely be in the 4-6 group alongside OSU USC and ASU

kitzbuel
05-05-2009, 05:44 AM
The rankings really are a moot point because so many of the GU recruits are just plain unknown quantities to the US basketball media. Once the ball drops, perceptions will change.

No doubt, GU would love to get the recruiting classes that UCLA can pull, it might happen over time with some deeper tourney runs. Without a doubt though, GU has been consistently improving its recruiting classes over time.

As long as GU keeps making the tournament and keeps slowly improving its talent level, the odds for a very deep tourney run continue to improve.

cbbfanatic
05-05-2009, 06:28 AM
CDC,

Have either capel or barnes said anything that suggests they wish they had taken goodson?

I think goodson will be a good player, but I'm not sure he has played enough minutes or proven enough to be considered clearly better than half of the 2008 top 100.

I'm not trying to be combative, but was your post pure speculation or is there some sort of quotes/metric behind it?

MJGoGaels
05-05-2009, 06:26 PM
BTW, I think St Mary's is sort of in a similar situation. They have a ton of Australian players coming in again, IIRC, who played at the AIS and who knows what they'll be like - plus the redshirted players from last season. It should be interesting to see what they're like this season.

Nev - just always finding common ground and the lack of info on Canadian and Aussies in the ranking system, and mindful of 2 redshirt freshman who figure prominently in the 8 man rotation for the Gaels next season. I can always read who does their homework.

I just had to poke a bit of fun at the hyperbole when I read "head and shoulders". Makes me think of a particular shampoo, too.

GallopingGael67
05-05-2009, 07:53 PM
Australia just won the bronze in the 24th Albert Schweitzer Tournament in Mannheim, Germany, defeating the USA in the third place game:

http://basketball.net.au/fs_newsitem.asp?id=77533&orgid=1

SMC has three recruits playing on the Australia team: Matthew Dellavedova, Jorden Page and Mitchell Young. Here is the box for the USA game:

http://www.ast-basketball.de/fileadmin/templates/ast/Fotos/2008USA-AUS.html

Note that Dellavedova dominated Florida freshman Irving Walker, the 8 rated point guard in 2008.

But here's the deal: Australia (with SMC's three recruits) and Canada (with Mangisto Arop and Kelly Olynyk) play each other in FIBA's U19 in New Zealand on July 2. Cool, eh?

http://newzealand2009.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/09/u19men/news/p/nid/29811/sid/4034/game-report.html

OZZag
05-06-2009, 03:25 PM
The FIBA U19s will give all a chance to shine, just a note Canada beat Australia in that tournament 66-53 with Manny scoring 18 points. Also note that Canada was the NEDA squad which did not include KO at the time and also didn't have Traz or Tristan Thompson.

http://www.ast-basketball.de/fileadmin/templates/ast/Fotos/2008CAN-AUS.html

Canada should take Australia out in the first match of the tournament, as they have too much firepower up front. Canada could end up in the top four if they get on a roll.

WallaWallaZag
05-08-2009, 02:37 AM
they might as well rename the ais...just call it saint mary's prep...

MDABE80
05-08-2009, 10:54 AM
Having 4 kids from foreign turf might make it hard for the talent evaluators to function accurately. Canada sports media isn't like the USA/ESPN/CBS/FOX newshounds who fawn over every dunk or possibly talented kid. What we know now is what we'll know till the world championships and then comes the season. Thus, It's tough to say GU's incoming class is worse or better than anyone's. Just can't tell.

GJ and Dower will come over as 3 star kids. Few and the staff know they can develop them and that's good enough for me. Sam ( per ZN's spectacular followup and posts) seems like a kid who'll be a wonderful addition with tons of talent. GJ is a sudden choice with lots of athletic talent. How he operates in a team structure is unclear right now.

These kids never show up as finished products. GU molds them and trains them. If the FIT is good, we give em a chance. Lots of major athletes showing up nowadays. As for me, I still like the moderately hidden gems (3 star kids) who ascend to being Zags when they finish. The kids who have "game" in em.......the ones who scare teams on the other side of the ball. We're winning with them...at a 85-90% clip. This is a killer incoming class that nobody can quantify right now. And as soon as they lace em up and go play some games the no of stars will be forgotten...........and then it won't matter! .......6 months and counting.......