View Full Version : Soul

04-27-2009, 06:21 PM
Maybe winning is becoming too important. If we are going to move some kid off a scholarship (to another school) so we can bring in a better kid, I'm not sure this is the Gonzaga I like. (Not sure I like seeing the changes at the law school where we no longer bring in kids who will be good lawyers - maybe - because their LSATs are not as great as they should be. At some time, do we lose the Gonzaga "soul"? Some of my best students at the law school did not have the best LSATs or GPAs.

04-27-2009, 06:27 PM
If the team actually pulls a schollie to accomodate another player, then this will become a legit conversation. Anything now is vague speculation unless you know something different.

04-27-2009, 06:56 PM
Happens at other schools. Not aware of it at GU. Some kids have been urged to leave to pursue greener pastures as it became obvious they wouldn't get minutes at GU. Some left.....and then other kids took their spots. It happens....just not with "malice of forethought"........as the legal beagles are fond of saying.

04-27-2009, 07:28 PM
It's the real world. I'm a student at Gonzaga University and I am on an academic scholarship which is renewed each year (like athletic scholarships). If my GPA is to fall below a certain level or I act in a way unbecoming to the university, my scholarship will be removed and I will have to relinquish my scholarship. Similarly, if a basketball player on scholarship does not meet the expectations set out by a high-level program like Gonzaga, I see no issue with the scholarship being removed. If the school can take an academic scholarship from a student and give it to a more qualified student, they should be able to do the same with an athlete. Yes, it sucks and it is probably more subjective for an athlete than it is for students because we have a set GPA number but those are the facts.

By signing on the dotted line and agreeing to the contract, we all assume to be living in big boy world where life tends to suck from time to time. At this point, nothing has happened with any current Gonzaga basketball players so lets not jump to conclusions, but this is just a fact of life.

I have no doubt that if Gonzaga was forced to remove a scholarship from one of their athletes, they would do it in a first class way in which they would explore other options for that athelete to either remain at the university or look at transfer options.

04-27-2009, 07:32 PM
Hi lawprof! Have not read your posts before. Nice to meet you.

Anyway, I'm shocked, yes absolutely shocked, that big time college BB programs could kick kids to the curb on their way to winning millions of NCAA dollars for their programs and conferences, not to mention tens of millions in salaries, endorsements and ESPN color commentary spots for their coaches.

By the way, can I safely assume that your specialty is not in the care, feeding and training of Wall Street white shoe money-grubbing legal sharks? Just a hunch. And I only ask because my wife is married to one.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

Zag 77
04-27-2009, 08:40 PM
Diallo told to move on. So did Calum McLeod.

Nary a peep as far as whether it was cold-hearted as far as I recall.

04-28-2009, 08:13 AM
If you are a player who is good enough to play division one basketball.....and every scholarship player on GU's roster is good enough to do that.....the last thing in the world you want to do is sit on the bench the whole time. It's a complete waste of your eligibility. A guy like Calum greatly benefitted from transferring from Gonzaga. The staff made sure he moved on to a Zag friendly juco, and from there he transferred into Valpo. The whole situation worked out for the best.

It's not as though transfers are being coldly thrown out on to the street by the coaches. The kids want to play, and provided the kid hasn't burned a lot of bridges, a coaching staff will use their contacts to make sure the kid moves on to a place where he'll get PT.

Zag 77
04-28-2009, 10:02 AM
CDC, I guess what you are saying is that if we do take away a kid's scholarship, the staff has enough contacts to get him into a D-II school somewhere. No doubt it would be a hard situation for all concerned. D-I athletics is a business now, and we are part of that. The upside is the 11 year high we have been on. Cutting some guys is the downside.

04-28-2009, 10:06 AM
I'll never ever understand why fans would rather see a kid stay at GU and ride pine his entire four-year career than go someplace else where they can play lots of minutes and experience the sense of accomplishment and contribution that comes with playing meaningful minutes in games. Seems selfish and, yes, soul-less, to me that any GU fan would want the former for a kid. I know I'd transfer if I were in that situation, and I wouldn't give a flying f*** what the fans thought.

04-28-2009, 10:41 AM
I also object to this idea that transferring out is a phenomenon that only happens top 25 type programs like Gonzaga. Jeff Goodman put out a list of transfers a couple of weeks ago:


More kids have been added since the list was originally published 2 weeks ago. There are roughly a couple of hundred players on this list, and the vast majority of them come from non-BCS schools. There is even a transfer from the New Jersey Institute of Technology. Kids want to go where they can play. The non-BCS schools like Florida Atlantic and Coastal Carolina have even more transferring because their coaches have to often pull recruits out of a hat. They take in a bunch of guys with the idea that some will pan out and some won't. Some kids won't pan out, and they won't get PT....so they decide to transfer. The kids are being given athletic scholarships based on their ability to play the sport of basketball. Playing basketball is every bit as important to the players as their academic life. If they were only interested in academics, there are scholarships/financial aid for that kind of thing. The kids want playing time, so they transfer to a school that will give them an athletic scholarship to play their sport and to get an education at the same time.

Angelo Roncalli
04-28-2009, 11:04 AM
I think some GU fans have an overly romanticized vision, and it particularly comes to the forefront when the '99 team was mentioned.

They forget or are unaware that there were two members of the '99 team, on scholarship, that didn't return after the Elite 8 run. One of them went on to success at another D-1 school (Damany Hendrix) and the other never played organized basketball again (Eric Chilton). It happens.

Last year I calculated that over the 10-year NCAA run, there were nearly two non-graduating players that left the team each year, on average. Most of them have moved to finish their careers at schools where they got much, much more playing time than they would have at GU.

Some examples:

Jimmy Tricco, Duquesne
Damany Hendrix, Lamar
Dustin Villepigue, UNLV
Tyler Amaya, WWU
Josh Reisman, BYU, SJU, etc.
Jay Sherrell, W. GA
Germayne Forbes, W. GA

Dustin Villepigue is interesting. He considers himself a Zag and some of his best friends are guys from DeSmet. Playing time was his number one consideration in transferring...

04-28-2009, 11:07 AM
Diallo told to move on. So did Calum McLeod.

Nary a peep as far as whether it was cold-hearted as far as I recall.

PMAC also

04-28-2009, 11:27 AM
PMAC was a special case because he graduated from Gonzaga in 3 years. By transferring to Marshall, he was able to go to a place closer to home and attend a graduate school that wouldn't cost him an arm and a leg once his eligibility ran out. I'm sure the prospect of getting more PT was appealing too.

04-28-2009, 12:11 PM
And David Burgess?

04-29-2009, 09:38 PM
I would rather keep Zag soul, and pay for season tix to watch them lose all the time!


if a student who doesnt keep his gpa up can be outted , so should a hooper who isnt doing it. plus, like BZ, CDC and angelo stated: its better for the player. i knew dustin, am close friends with G $ (Germayne Forbes), and it was much better for them to go elsewhere. G even got a name for himself that i doubt he would have at GU had he stayed.

04-29-2009, 10:03 PM
keep our intentions and pursuits pure, and no matter the outcomes with each individual, it's their passages thru GU and what they then return in kind that keeps the soul alive, the river flowing, the energy real

that's the difference imo; no way all programs can claim that with a straight face, no way, when relating to anyone, recruitung with anyone...we can, see Vilarino for the most recent proof of this

and we win


04-29-2009, 10:34 PM
great post, and avatar bbeachballbum!

Once and Future Zag
04-30-2009, 07:26 AM
Not to be too blunt about it - if Will Foster can be a 4 year short-minutes player, then I suspect virtually any player who transferred out could have had similar careers (in terms of minutes) at GU.

We almost certainly could have "recruited over" Will if that was something that this coaching staff did, but he's going into his senior season on scholarship.