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View Full Version : Big Austin...the first round isn't looking good...



AzZag
04-21-2009, 05:16 PM
I know this horse is beyond dead and we are all kicking a dead horse's ghost right now, but with guys like Rubio and Curry entering the fray, it looks like
AD will be bumped out of the first round if he elects to stay in the draft.

I have yet to find one credible mock draft with him in the 1st round.

AD, come back to the promised land. No Orlando Pre-draft camp, few individual workouts, etc...


As Vince Vaughn says in Old School: "cough couhg" "Don't do it..."

zagking
04-21-2009, 05:50 PM
seems like it will be hard for austin to get into lottery this year, but the first round is still very possible. Espn has him at late first to early second which is what he and his family probably want to hear.

MississppiZag
04-21-2009, 06:27 PM
What do you consider a credible mock draft?

Draftexpress has him in the first round and Chad Ford from ESPN thinks he is a first round pick. Chad thinks he is closer to the lottery than the second round.

Also, how many mock drafts are there? I only know of 3. These are all predictions. Austin will make the right choice. I hope he stays as a selfish fan, but if he leaves I respect that, and wish him all the best.

TM27
04-21-2009, 07:08 PM
I totally understand guys that leave early. I would do the same, how can anyone turn down that kind of money? But it still bothers me for guys to have 2 mediocre seasons and leave... Talk about using Gonzaga as a stepping stone.

Curious to hear other opinions, but I definitely used my undergrad as a "stepping stone"...had I been offered the "job" half way through I would have accepted it. To the above poster...did you attend GU? Degree? Did you use the system to change your earning potential? Am I missing something?

Austin's situation is different than the typical undergraduate; as most attend school to become an accountant, doctor, lawyer, etc...and he came to become a professional basketball player...more power to him if he did it without a full 4 years.

laszagas
04-21-2009, 07:10 PM
But it still bothers me for guys to have 2 mediocre seasons and leave...

I agree. He is capable of so much more than what we have seen... it will be a let down if he leaves in that we won't get to see the best collegiate Austin.

gu03alum
04-21-2009, 07:34 PM
I totally understand guys that leave early. I would do the same, how can anyone turn down that kind of money? But it still bothers me for guys to have 2 mediocre seasons and leave... Talk about using Gonzaga as a stepping stone.

Who cares if he uses gonzaga as a stepping stone? Isn't the university using him to generate cash. You think he had two subpar years? Who are you comparing him too, kevin durant, michael beasly? Give me a break. He had a very good freshman year then got hurt training for his sophomore year and started slow. He has played as well as I would expect any sophomore to play. If the NBA thinks there is potential for him to grow as a player and pay him while he does this how can you fault him?

FuManShoes
04-21-2009, 07:44 PM
I totally understand guys that leave early. I would do the same, how can anyone turn down that kind of money? But it still bothers me for guys to have 2 mediocre seasons and leave... Talk about using Gonzaga as a stepping stone.

Ah, so you understand guys that leave early and would do the same. And yet you CONTINUE to belittle Daye for a choice he hasn't even made yet.

And "talk about using Gonzaga as a stepping stone?" ... Uh, isn't that what college is -- a place to improve your lot and develop skills and experience that will make you a successful professional, something that goes for students and athletes alike? Or should we romanticize the career student and belittle he who can raise his stock in less than four years? Those disloyal #######s who dare entertain ideas of fleeing before WE SAY IT'S TIME....

And let's talk about those "2 mediocre seasons?" Are you serious? Do you know what mediocre means? (Hint: mediocre, adj., of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance : ordinary, so-so).

Daye played on a team with 3-4 other pro caliber players (NBA/Europe) and still led the team in rebounds, set a single season school record for blocks, shot 47% from the field and 43% from three, and clocked 7 boards and 12.5 pts in 26 mins a game, including a double double against national champions UNC. Those are not world-beating numbers, nor could they ever be given the depth and experience on this team, but they are hardly mediocre. They are respectable but obviously not Daye's best, because he's a babe in the woods in this game with a lot of things to improve. That we can agree on. But to diminish his accomplishments, and repeatedly question his loyalty and all the other mess you talk.... Just do it a favor and for once back it up with facts rather than hiding behind your "opinion."

Zag79
04-21-2009, 07:49 PM
But it still bothers me for guys to have 2 mediocre seasons and leave... Talk about using Gonzaga as a stepping stone.

by mediocre if you mean being the leading rebounder, leader in double doubles, and in the top 3 in scoring on a team full of upperclassmen then i want more guys that are mediocre! sure i agree he would be better off with another season under his belt, but give it a rest. the guy is phenomenal, played very well for us as a fr and soph, and the nba drafts on potential. he will be back tear it up as a junior, and thats that.

krozman
04-21-2009, 09:19 PM
how can anyone turn down that kind of money? .

Turiaf?

AzZag
04-21-2009, 09:34 PM
Ah, so you understand guys that leave early and would do the same. And yet you CONTINUE to belittle Daye for a choice he hasn't even made yet.

And "talk about using Gonzaga as a stepping stone?" ... Uh, isn't that what college is -- a place to improve your lot and develop skills and experience that will make you a successful professional, something that goes for students and athletes alike? Or should we romanticize the career student and belittle he who can raise his stock in less than four years? Those disloyal #######s who dare entertain ideas of fleeing before WE SAY IT'S TIME....

And let's talk about those "2 mediocre seasons?" Are you serious? Do you know what mediocre means? (Hint: mediocre, adj., of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance : ordinary, so-so).

Daye played on a team with 3-4 other pro caliber players (NBA/Europe) and still led the team in rebounds, set a single season school record for blocks, shot 47% from the field and 43% from three, and clocked 7 boards and 12.5 pts in 26 mins a game, including a double double against national champions UNC. Those are not world-beating numbers, nor could they ever be given the depth and experience on this team, but they are hardly mediocre. They are respectable but obviously not Daye's best, because he's a babe in the woods in this game with a lot of things to improve. That we can agree on. But to diminish his accomplishments, and repeatedly question his loyalty and all the other mess you talk.... Just do it a favor and for once back it up with facts rather than hiding behind your "opinion."




I don't think numbers paint the whole picture. In the Zag world, we haven't gotten many top 100 recruits, let alone a top 30 recruit. In fact, have we ever other than Austin? I'm betting that would be a big negative ghost rider. Many of us follow rivals.com and scout.com and dream of a kid in the top 30 selecting the Zags over UCLA, UDub, Kansas, etc. When AD signed with the Zags, he was one of the super elite talents in the country. With that, everyone expected him to be a dominating force, especially at the WCC level. No one can argue that he has been up and down in his two years. There are some games where he showed legit NBA talent, and other games where you forgot he was in the lineup. An NBA first round pick should be absolutely crushing guys like Dowdell, Sikma, Rob Jones, and even the Bryant's and Simpsons. Don't get me wrong, Bryant and Diamon are good, but not NBA caliber players.

Patty Mills plays ABOVE the level of talent around him. That is why everyone has him as a lock in the first round. Austin played down to the competition on several occassions.

I am not bashing him, just stating the facts you requested. He wasn't on the All Conference team (honorable mention) of the WCC. He wasn't on the WCC all tourney team. So, although I hardly call his two-year stint mediocre, I truly believe it would be a shame if he didn't come back and show us all how amazing he is and what type of great leader he could become. He could be one of the all-time Zag greats if he comes back and works VERY hard to improve many facets of his game.

NorthWestZag
04-21-2009, 09:38 PM
If Morrison had stayed his senior year, he would probably be where he is now but making a lot less money. If Austin thinks he can legit go first round and get signed by a team, more power to him. Nothing against Austin but I don't see him being the Stepp/Dickau/Pendo/Pargo "Zag." In some ways I am excited to see Harris or Kong or one of the other newcomers battle for a starting spot at Gonzaga right out of the gate.

But he goes to Gonzaga which is a stepping stone. College is a stepping stone. I am graduating with a business degree and plan to move on to greener pastures outside of top roman/cheap beer/loans/ ect. If your "career" is professional basketball then you should go for it if the opportunity is present.

CB4
04-21-2009, 09:41 PM
Based on the facts present, Austin's hype at the start of the year, his relative performance (despite leading the team), and my opinion, I think Austin Daye will return next year. He has so much more to gain by waiting a year and becoming a high first round shoe in next year versus the unpredictability this year. I think he will dominate next year and there won't be any discussion about his draft status a year from since he will already have an agent hired.

jpwils
04-22-2009, 08:18 AM
Whether we like it or not, Austin came in at a different level and has options which put him in a more elite and special case level.

His talent, height, and potential dictate that he must test the waters.
Many of us have done "internships"-Austin is completing( either this year or next year) his college internship and may need better competition and
PRO-level coaching( our coaching staff is best in the COLLEGE business-do not hear me wrong) . He MAY have been forced to play out of natural position so as to get more of our best players on the floor.

I may be wrong, but in the NBA, Austin will be playing more of a "3" position-
something Gonzaga may only be able to offer on a part-time basis even this next year. By competing against better players, Austin may actually accelerate his improvement ( similar to an Anthony Randolph type).

It may all come down to which team would draft him and how they plan to utilize him( I know he will need to make the decision to stay in the draft ahead of time so save the timing critiques of this post).

Austin , as previously mentioned, got hurt last summer, and came back admirably from that. But he didn't come back at first to the level he was accustomed to previously.

So ,let's give him the proper respect and realize we have not had many , if any, cases to compare this to. Morrison and Turiaf are somewhat similar but not exactly similar.

I think we have been blessed that he came back as well as he did last year from injury- he may exponentially improve so much this summer that it actually bridges the injury gap and puts him in a more draftable position than
most people imagine.

His next "internship period" might best be served(from his perspective) and looked at as a two year head start in the NBA -perfecting his craft against the best in the business.

As a Zag fan I will hate to see him go. We would all have loved to see him carry us to the Final Four these next couple years... but as a business person, I must accept the harsh realities of the marketplace and tip my cap to someone wanting to achieve their best physical and economic gain over what can best be looked at as the prime 15 years of one's life, so as to establish a pro career in a field few of us have the opportunity to pursue.

FuManShoes
04-22-2009, 08:37 AM
I don't think numbers paint the whole picture. In the Zag world, we haven't gotten many top 100 recruits, let alone a top 30 recruit. In fact, have we ever other than Austin? I'm betting that would be a big negative ghost rider. Many of us follow rivals.com and scout.com and dream of a kid in the top 30 selecting the Zags over UCLA, UDub, Kansas, etc. When AD signed with the Zags, he was one of the super elite talents in the country. With that, everyone expected him to be a dominating force, especially at the WCC level. No one can argue that he has been up and down in his two years. There are some games where he showed legit NBA talent, and other games where you forgot he was in the lineup. An NBA first round pick should be absolutely crushing guys like Dowdell, Sikma, Rob Jones, and even the Bryant's and Simpsons. Don't get me wrong, Bryant and Diamon are good, but not NBA caliber players.

Patty Mills plays ABOVE the level of talent around him. That is why everyone has him as a lock in the first round. Austin played down to the competition on several occassions.

I am not bashing him, just stating the facts you requested. He wasn't on the All Conference team (honorable mention) of the WCC. He wasn't on the WCC all tourney team. So, although I hardly call his two-year stint mediocre, I truly believe it would be a shame if he didn't come back and show us all how amazing he is and what type of great leader he could become. He could be one of the all-time Zag greats if he comes back and works VERY hard to improve many facets of his game.

I appreciate the rebuttal and agree Daye was much too inconsistent. My take is that he obviously has the skill but not necessarily the motor or body or savvy to bring it at an elite level every night. Also, with Josh playing the 5 due to Sacre's injury and Daye sliding to the 4, he was simply no physical match for bigger men down low. I don't see how we can impugn Daye for being too frail to dominate at this level -- how much control could he have over that given his genes and the injury? Now, does that glaring weakness mean he's a fool if he jumps to the NBA where he stands no chance of playing until he gets stronger? Not if he and the fam do the calculous and decide the money and opportunity today is better than the potential for a better deal next year.

lothar98zag
04-22-2009, 08:58 AM
...Patty Mills plays ABOVE the level of talent around him. That is why everyone has him as a lock in the first round...

really?

It took me one try to find PM not in the 1st round.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2009/

deathchina
04-22-2009, 10:31 AM
Austin can score but he isn't quick enough to guard an NBA wing player and certainly isn't strong enough to defend in the post. He's gonna struggle on D at the next level.

cjm720
04-22-2009, 12:22 PM
If I were a GM with a mid to late first round choice, I'd drool over the prospect of landing Daye. He's a lock in the first round, IMO. If that's enough for Austin, he's gone.

ZagManFan
04-22-2009, 01:07 PM
If Morrison had stayed his senior year, he would probably be where he is now but making a lot less money. If Austin thinks he can legit go first round and get signed by a team, more power to him. Nothing against Austin but I don't see him being the Stepp/Dickau/Pendo/Pargo "Zag." In some ways I am excited to see Harris or Kong or one of the other newcomers battle for a starting spot at Gonzaga right out of the gate.

But he goes to Gonzaga which is a stepping stone. College is a stepping stone. I am graduating with a business degree and plan to move on to greener pastures outside of top roman/cheap beer/loans/ ect. If your "career" is professional basketball then you should go for it if the opportunity is present.

Ammo left when he should have. A great junior year who led the nation is scoring and a co-mvp award to his name. And not just a WCC co-mvp either. IMO his decision was the right one where I do think AD needs another year. Blow up his junior year like Ammo and hit the lottery.

AzZag
04-22-2009, 02:28 PM
Ammo's lottery status was a sure thing. A lock, without any doubt. The only question was where would he go 1 through 6.

AD on the other hand isn't a lock. I would hate for him to end up like a better shooting Patrick O'Bryant or a taller, thinker Dajuan Wagner . But hey, if it's all about the money...then, great...I just would rather see him being paid long-term in Benjamins and not Euros...

mainer6
04-22-2009, 03:12 PM
I totally understand guys that leave early. I would do the same, how can anyone turn down that kind of money? But it still bothers me for guys to have 2 mediocre seasons and leave... Talk about using Gonzaga as a stepping stone.

I think this is a valid perspective to have. Why would this comment receive such harsh criticism from so many folks?

While I admit that many Zags have used GU "as a stepping stone" in the past (athletes and non-athletes alike), that does not mean that it is the kind of behavior that everyone has to like.

To those of you who admire and/or can realate to chasing the money, leaving early, seeing college as a tool for self promotion, fine, but it is not the only way. And to some, it lacks loyalty.

jpwils
04-22-2009, 05:10 PM
Guys,

I am having difficulty seeing how Austin had a "subpar year".

Without the injury he unquestionably would be further along.

Without the injury to Sacre, Daye could have played a half of a game minimum at the 3 spot. He probably would have scored more and
grabbed just as many if not more rebounds from the three.

So, because Austin was resilient, and the timing of his injury was convenient enough for the Zags to enjoy another Sweet Sixteen performance...
he should feel guilty and disloyal for gauging and possibly executing his plan to go professional??? Sounds like manipulation to me.

You don't see Gonzaga offering to give back the money they earned while
exploiting Daye, Heytvelt, and Pargo for extra years , do you?( not that they necessarily should)

I'm not suggesting that Gonzaga should give any money back- but they sure did benefit from his already resilient and unique talent.

Let's allow a unique sports talent to get professional counsel on this
and the marketplace to adjust accordingly for his allotted talent.

If he goes to the draft early and unheralded and gets the money he is due, wouldn't it just be a great advertisement for our school that our coaches WANT the best for these superlative athletes and each one is case-by-case and Gonzaga is one of the truly objective places where future pros can THRIVE???????

Certainly none of us ever proved we could be good doctors, lawyers, accountants, sales reps, teachers, business owners, etc....
before accepting the very best offers we could get before or after graduation....
didn't we have " on the job training" to do that we did not receive in college
and had to pay our dues in our respective fields before enjoying success??

What if Austin's dues to Gonzaga were pretty much paid up at the halfway
mark and now he needs to pay his dues on the pro level to get the max out of his ability??? You would not deny a doctoral candidate the chance to sharpen his skill set in medical school and compete against the best doctoral candidates for a job- so why wouldn't you just look at it like Austin can get accepted early to a graduate school that is especially suited to his talent set???
Do we make doctoral candidates and lawyer candidates feel guilty if they flunk out of medical or law school??

No- we take the attitude that they took their shot, failed, and allow them to dust off and try something else!

And, of course, if Austin cannot get "ACCEPTED" yet-meaning getting chosen in the first round...then go back to the one that brought ya to the dance and hone that skill set and have your school benefit yet another installment on their initial investment and get to the Elite Eight...but realize it is a
MUTUALLY SYMBIOTIC deal!!!!

Economics and career window dictate that these guys will do it early every time if they can get first round money- they have to factor in the risk of injury on EITHER level and where that leaves them financially, just like a surgeon does who is losing his or her eyesight at some point in their career but enjoyed the "prime of life" career window.

jpwils
04-22-2009, 07:41 PM
Sweet Sixteen loss to UNC is subpar??

Leading rebounder playing out of position is subpar?

Sorry dude- but NBA always drafts on potential not surname.

Some make it and some don't...but upside of player dictates his initial shot.

What first round pick doesn't struggle on Defense at first?

If he comes back and plays 3 , we thrive ( with Harris at power forward half the game.

But if he goes pro, and plays any at all and is drafted in first round, he has made the right decision( albeit with some dogs barking "Subpar, ruff-ruff-ruff in his ear)....let the dogs bark.... just like they did when he chose an out of state college to hone is considerable talent and POTENTIAL.

TeachforZagNation
04-22-2009, 09:02 PM
Ammo's decision was also influenced by the circumstances of the league. The new age-minimum contributed to Ammo's draft being one of the weakest in years, as Durant and Oden and others were required to spend a year in college.

Daye's decision should also be influenced by the circumstances of the league. With the impending economic crunch on the NBA, shrinking salary cap, and potential for a lockout in 2011, all underclassmen should be testing the waters. If you can get money guaranteed at salary scales designed when the salary cap was expanding each year, you are a fool not to do it.

I would love for Daye to come back. I think for all his growing pains and maturity issues, he gets a bad rap. But, surrounded by upperclassmen, he contributed at a very high level. And, I was very pleased with his effort, especially in terms of rebounds and effort, towards the end of the season. However, having the opportunity to get paid millions of dollars to develop with better coaches, around better players, is something that should not be overturned. Every day at NBA practice for Austin will be more competitive than 80% of his college games. I remember Mike Dunleavy Jr talking about this, basically saying that even though he didnt play much as a Warrior, he was getting much better development as a rookie than he would have had be stayed at Duke, where the coaching and players are seen as better than Gonzaga. Basically, that year of practice against NBA players better developed his long term skills than a year of games against ACC players. While Daye could benefit from developing strength, skills, and maturity at GU, there is no saying he wouldnt develop those at a better rate and higher level on a playoff team.*

* In no way would I want him on the Nuggets though. I think that could be disastrous.

ExtremeJim
04-22-2009, 11:03 PM
IF YOU DONT AGREE WITH ME, YOU ARE IGNORANT.


I can have my opinion, and if it gets your panties in a bunch, then dont read my opinions. Jesus people on this board need to stop getting so butt hurt.


Even if the blasphemy were to be excused, I can see no reason why anyone would respond to someone who juxtaposes these two statements in the same post. There's no room for productive discussion with someone who insists on voicing his opinion, and at the same time insists that anyone who disagrees with it is ignorant.

You might as well try to have a conversation with Rush Limbaugh.