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View Full Version : Who will be a better Zag Pro?



snebzag
04-12-2009, 06:40 PM
JP, Josh, or Micah.

Disclaimer: I do not follow, like or agree with anything NBA. Any comments that offend will be claimed to be a position of Fiction.

I remember a couple of years ago this discussion. Adam or Brandon Roy. A Dawg poster, uh, a "Chicken" poster was really intense on how Roy would be a better pro. I snickered a bit. Boy oh Boy was he ever correct. I guess I have to give him credit for being spot on, no matter whom he cheers.
John Stockton is easily number one in Zag history. Ronny is going to have a solid, long career, But what about this class?
I see Josh as another Ronny. Ten years as a Power Forward. Extra foul to give. No pressure. Shoots anywhere on the court. Plays NBA defense. Josh will be the best of this class. The drugs and the thugs don't bother him. He either joins in or says "Been there done that" Retires and opens an Electric car dealership in Clarkston.
Micah is really on the up and up. So much energy, so athletic. Gets on with a team. Plays his heart out. Again another foul to give, goes all out. Has potential to improve more than the others, but the drugs and the thugs cause him to loose focus. Heads to Europe after four years. Europe is like Kansas. No good, No right. Heads home. Coaches High School at a Christian private school for the rest of his life. Number two in this class.
JP works hard to make a team. Close but no Cigar. Heads immediately to Euro ball. Plays forever other there. Eats every Cheeseburger they can make. Has a great life. Returns to Chicago when he retires to work with the city's kids.

So who will be a better Pro? Maybe none of them make it. Maybe they all do. The only time I turn on the Association is to catch a glimpse of Ronny or Adam. Need more Zags in the NBA to get my interest. Maybe the "Chicken" fan will chime in with thoughts on Jon Brockman..........I would be all ears.

skan72
04-12-2009, 06:53 PM
Interesting post. It's tough to say who will be better, but I have a bias towards Micah, so I'm going to go with him. Not for any particular reason because when I really think about it, each of them could turn out to be a pretty good pro; however, Micah's athleticism, shooting ability, length, inside-out play, versatility in general makes me give the edge to him.

bartruff1
04-12-2009, 07:22 PM
Interesting post. It's tough to say who will be better, but I have a bias towards Micah, so I'm going to go with him. Not for any particular reason because when I really think about it, each of them could turn out to be a pretty good pro; however, Micah's athleticism, shooting ability, length, inside-out play, versatility in general makes me give the edge to him. He is quicker and playes better defense...but what do I know, I never imagined that Roy would be a all star...great all round player...my contempt for the chickens doesn't extend to their players..

mgadfly
04-13-2009, 06:22 AM
Heytvelt is the surest player to have a long NBA career. He certainly could mess it up or get injured, but 6'11" 270 lbs with good jumping capabilities makes him a "lock" as a defensive specialist (extra foul guy) in the NBA. Heck, if Scalbrine can hang around the league this long based on size alone, JH can as well. Oh yeah, Heytvelt can also shoot and score, so he has an outside chance of working his way into a 6th man or starting position.

Downs doesn't have the handles to play the "2" in the league, nor the size to play the "3". He certainly has the height and length, but he lacks the muscle. He doesn't create his own shot, isn't very good in isolation offenses (which dominate the NBA), and although he has a lot of energy and deep shooting range, doesn't bring enough of either to compensate for his weaknesses. I think he might get drafted, but he's very borderline and isn't going to stick. He could be an amazing player in the international game though.

Pargo could end up a back up point guard in the NBA. He has the size and strength, can handle the ball, and plays good defense. I don't think he'll ever start or contribute much because of his offensive deficiencies (that's odd to say about a Gonzaga player). Also, heart only takes you so far. Despite some amazing dunks, his vertical was 26 inches at the dunk contest, indicating his athleticism might be second tier.

As for the rest of the guys on this team. I'm not sold on Daye. He has a ton of potential, but if he can't add bulk or speed he isn't going to a great asset to a pro team where guys have to get up and down the court and be physical. He has all the tools, but he has a lot more to show to be a starting type NBA player.

I think Matt Bouldin has the best chance (other than JH) of a long NBA career. He has above average athleticism, very good size, and can handle and distribute the ball. He is a very good shooter and efficient scorer, has a variety of hesitation moves that can get him to the hoop, and is an underrated defender. He has an NBA players body, size, and skill but there are a lot of guards that fit that description coming out of college.

HillBillyZag
04-13-2009, 09:31 AM
I know my Cavs could sure use Josh.

skan72
04-13-2009, 09:33 AM
Heytvelt is the surest player to have a long NBA career. He certainly could mess it up or get injured, but 6'11" 270 lbs with good jumping capabilities makes him a "lock" as a defensive specialist (extra foul guy) in the NBA. Heck, if Scalbrine can hang around the league this long based on size alone, JH can as well. Oh yeah, Heytvelt can also shoot and score, so he has an outside chance of working his way into a 6th man or starting position.

Downs doesn't have the handles to play the "2" in the league, nor the size to play the "3". He certainly has the height and length, but he lacks the muscle. He doesn't create his own shot, isn't very good in isolation offenses (which dominate the NBA), and although he has a lot of energy and deep shooting range, doesn't bring enough of either to compensate for his weaknesses. I think he might get drafted, but he's very borderline and isn't going to stick. He could be an amazing player in the international game though.

Pargo could end up a back up point guard in the NBA. He has the size and strength, can handle the ball, and plays good defense. I don't think he'll ever start or contribute much because of his offensive deficiencies (that's odd to say about a Gonzaga player). Also, heart only takes you so far. Despite some amazing dunks, his vertical was 26 inches at the dunk contest, indicating his athleticism might be second tier.

As for the rest of the guys on this team. I'm not sold on Daye. He has a ton of potential, but if he can't add bulk or speed he isn't going to a great asset to a pro team where guys have to get up and down the court and be physical. He has all the tools, but he has a lot more to show to be a starting type NBA player.

I think Matt Bouldin has the best chance (other than JH) of a long NBA career. He has above average athleticism, very good size, and can handle and distribute the ball. He is a very good shooter and efficient scorer, has a variety of hesitation moves that can get him to the hoop, and is an underrated defender. He has an NBA players body, size, and skill but there are a lot of guards that fit that description coming out of college.

Great post! I have also been really impressed with Bouldin and think he could, after his senior year of course, project as a pretty solid NBA player.

duper
04-13-2009, 10:18 AM
I also agree with everything you say except on Bouldin. IMO Matt is in the same catagory with guys like, Tobby Bailey (UCLA), Scotty Thurman (ARK), Casey Jacobson (Stanford) and others who were great college palyers but leave a little to be desired as NBA players. Blake is another I felt was in this category.

NYCZAG
04-13-2009, 12:25 PM
I am going to say MICAH hands down-I don't think he has reached his potential and is a guy who seems to have cleaned the fog out of his head and concentrated on BBALL-I think if he went to Gonzaga right out of high school and really immersed himself in this program he would be top ten draft pick this year-He reminds me of a tom chambers detlef schrempf type player not the size but shooting and jumping out of the gym-

Mr Vulture
04-13-2009, 12:44 PM
Josh - Definately will be drafted with late first round outside shot after draft camps. Will have the best career of this group. Definately better than Turiaf skill wise but not the same motor...either way, he will be on a roster this fall.

Jeremy - Borderline on draft....could be a NBA backup or not make it at all...I think he is athletic enough to get a shot and see what happens. Would say mid to late 2nd rounder that makes roster this year at least.

Micah - Think he will end up drafted as he goes through the process. Has some intangible things that will help him out. Likely mid to late 2nd rounder that could end up being the best of the three at the NBA level.

Austin - Likely will be a good player in the league but may not ever be more than a guy off the bench. I don't see him as an All Star ever....in fact, he could end up being a Josh Childress type guy who ends up getting paid well in Europe. Would definately be a 1st rounder in 2010 and who knows this year. Hope he shows maturity and comes back to show that he can be a mature member of the team and a leader. Needs to add at least 20lbs of muscle.

Matt - This is a guy that will play in the NBA because he has the passing skills and size to do it. Much better than Blake Steppe...likely to be a longterm player that fits into a team...unlikely All Star but definate guy to get minutes...reminds me of Mike Miller with better passing skills.

bballbeachbum
04-13-2009, 01:52 PM
Josh could be the one, although his game is tailor-made for overseas imo

Micah's dribble is a little long; he can still get better there...could be a James Posey type?

Jeremy could end up dominating overseas; he is a tough cover at 6'2", but not a true pg; only guy I can think of like that in the Association is Ben Gordon, tho there must be others

UberZagFan
04-13-2009, 02:17 PM
JH.

It will be interesting to see how JH's game transforms outside of the restraints placed in the past. That all-star game last weekend may be the first of many examples.

4AmericasTeam
04-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Josh should have a nice NBA career because he can run the floor well and shoot from outside. That, along with his size and athleticism should bode well. I do like Micah as a sleeper. He has the tools, and if he works on his ballhandling to get it up to NBA level, he could play. Might be a better overall prospect than Morrison because he can guard somebody. I hope Pargo makes it, but if he doesn't he will make lots of money overseas and have lots of fun. All 3 would for that matter.

JPtheBeasta
04-13-2009, 06:12 PM
I'm living in Arizona right now and have heard the comparison of Micah to Matt Barnes (Suns)- both shoot the three, play defense, mix it up on the boards a bit, are athletic, and get out in transition. Micah will need to get about 50 more tatoos to fully earn the comparison, however. Neither have the best handles. I feel that Micah has the most up-side of the three GU players because he wasn't asked to do much more than he did at GU (Pargo and Heytveldt had to carry much more of a load and were exposed more, IMO)
Pargo reminds me of a Jarret Jack or a Will Bynum. Both are in the league and not making a huge impact, but provide minutes off the bench. All three are similar in size and can get to the rim, but aren't the best shooters from distance.
Heyveldt... maybe a Brad Miller type of guy. Miller was an All-Star, so maybe that comparison bodes well...
The common denominater for all of these guys is a good career but not much impact on the league. I would be just fine with that, were it me.

Weighing in on Matt, does anyone out there see any comparison with Williams of the Jazz?

Zag79
04-13-2009, 11:30 PM
josh is a good bet, so skilled and athletic. if he wants it, he will get it. pargo has everything you need other than a consistent shot from 3, so if his shot gets there he is automatic. micah is very skilled, and has all the heigth and talent you need. i think he has as good a shot as anyone, ive seen him play too many times (in a zag uni and without one on) to doubt this dude. the thing i find interesting in all of this is:

micah has an issue with handles? who told you that, and if it was nobody then i need you to check game film and watch him more often. this dude has mad handles for a guy his size making him that much more difficult to stop. the way the zags played didnt allow it to be seen as much. in an open gym, playing free (nba style) he is probably the best player on the zags this year no joke.

and im not sold on the bouldin nba thing yet still fellas. how are some of you SO sold on him but not pargo, josh or micah? do you realize that in all but a few OOC games matty struggled mightily against better quality teams than the wcc? micah, jeremy and josh had better games than matt against the nc's, uconns, memphis, wazzus, okla st, utahs, etc. sure he really played well against the wcc and tennesee but thats about it. it inflated his overall numbers but if you really look he just didnt play well against the big boys this year. he needs to get consistent before making a roster in the league. i think he can do it, im just discussing as of right now.

JPtheBeasta
04-14-2009, 04:11 PM
micah has an issue with handles? who told you that, and if it was nobody then i need you to check game film and watch him more often. this dude has mad handles for a guy his size making him that much more difficult to stop. the way the zags played didnt allow it to be seen as much. in an open gym, playing free (nba style) he is probably the best player on the zags this year no joke.



For starters, I'm a huge Micah fan. As far as open gym goes, I'll have to concede to your expertise (I would have loved to have seen these guys play in open gym and a more free-style type offense). I agree that we probably didn't get to see all that Micah has to offer; that's why I think he has so much up-side. Regarding his handles, my perspective comes from the couch watching him on TV. From my vantage, he was a two dribble kind of guy that got stopped at the free throw line or settled for 3's. He never turned the ball over, but he didn't seem like one of those guys who can get to anywhere he wants in the half court. He definitely can get to the rim and finish on fast breaks. He's athletic, has the length and hops to finish in traffic, and superior range on his shot.

I would like to see him here in Phoenix because I'll miss seeing him in a Zags uni :) Although, if he joined Ronny at Golden State I could no longer talk myself out of getting that tv package upgrade...

bballbeachbum
04-14-2009, 06:50 PM
Yeah, Micah's handles...specifically

it's not in the open floor to me, nor on the perimeter, it's the move to the paint...ends up with a jump stop, pump fakes, doesn't seem to be able to get all the way to the hoop. Anyway, that was the thought there.

That said, sometimes he makes all the way! DUNK!

Micah's got the attitude too, I think. when he left us, he was just taking off, confident, a whole new flight pattern for him. Matt Barnes, I like that comparison, without the tats tho

GO TEAM ZAGS!!!

Zag79
04-14-2009, 06:55 PM
Some people in here dont think you can Criticize a Zag and still be a fan of that player.. Micah Downs doesnt have the best handles

you can critique, i think it more in how you say it. im a very honest zag fan, and in this thread pointed out that matty struggled against much of the top OOC schedule we faced but overall had great numbers due to inflated stats he gets against the wcc. no one was mad or calling me out. its all in the tone.


that's why I think he has so much up-side. Regarding his handles, my perspective comes from the couch watching him on TV. From my vantage, he was a two dribble kind of guy that got stopped at the free throw line or settled for 3's. He never turned the ball over, but he didn't seem like one of those guys who can get to anywhere he wants in the half court. He definitely can get to the rim and finish on fast breaks. He's athletic, has the length and hops to finish in traffic, and superior range on his shot.

great post. micah has good handles for a guy his size, even better than most. micahs game is made for the nba more so than at GU in my opinion. he really can (and with ease at times) get to the rim handling the rock, i wish we would have seen it more often too! im assuming he wanted to be a team player, and it seemed the O wasnt run throgh him like matt, pargo and josh. i think he will continue to shine at these camps.