View Full Version : Is it Just Me? Or was it UNC 8 vs. GU 5?

03-28-2009, 11:50 AM
I post this somewhat reluctantly because everything that Iíve read on these boards has been respectful, insightful, and magnanimous. But open and honest discussion and questions asked in good faith bring light to darkness. So Ö

I donít want to start a massive whine session, but did the referees call the same game at both ends of the court? Or was this game, in part, 8 v 5?

I donít know, even at their best and with a perfectly refereed game, if GU could have beat UNC last night. But it seemed that just a few calls vanquished any chance of a Zag win. Two observations
1. At the half, team fouls were GU-11, UNC-6, that is lopsided,
2. The foul called on Downs in the second half when Hansbrough picked up his dribble simply was not being called on the GU offensive half of the court.

Both teams committed fouls. GU turned the ball over too many times. The Tarheels shot lights out at times and the two 3s by Frasor followed by two conventional 3-point plays comprising a 12-0 run in 40 seconds would probably have finished any team. UNC is a very good basketball team, have fine athletes, are deep, and well coached. Roy Williams was gracious in his praise of Gonzaga and Coach Few in the post game press conference. For their effort and win, I sincerely congratulate UNC.

But all of that said, a good friend of mine and Clemson alum watches his Tigers go up against the Tarheels at least twice and often three times a year. His opinion is that it is a widely held view that UNC gets favorable calls in all venues and especially by ACC referees. In particular, Tyler ďHands-Off-Me-BroĒ Hansbrough is just that Ė untouchable. So in the future, keep an eye on how UNC games are refereed.

I loved this yearís Zags. It was a great season filled with many great memories. Iím in the Bay Area and attended the St. Maryís, USF, and Santa Clara games. After the St. Maryís games I had a chance to talk to Andrew Sorensen; what a great kid! Wonderful and heartwarming stories for all of the seniors; well beyond basketball each of these young men have overcome adversity (admittedly, some brought on by their own actions) and are better human beings for the experience. I have a daughter at GU now and I can not speak highly enough about this school, its community, and its ability to help guide young men and women into becoming the best versions of themselves. The basketball program is just one example, and a popular and very public one, of the great things that come out of this fine Jesuit school in Spokane.

If that sounds like sour grapes, I apologize.

03-28-2009, 11:58 AM
They are on a completely different level than Gonzaga...at least last night

03-28-2009, 11:59 AM
All the refs in the sweet 16 were ATROCIOUS.. At times last night they were just terribly inconsistent calling ticky tack and other times they would let anything go... Hansbrough always gets bailed out and its sickening, can't stand to watch the kid.. He always looks like a confused goon out there.

I'll agree it was a little lopsided first half with the fouls.. THey had shot like 15 FT's at half to our 6

03-28-2009, 12:02 PM
Z-I-P, what you said doesn't sound like sour grapes to me but rather an astute observation:)

03-28-2009, 12:43 PM
I thought the officiating was fine. If anything the Zags had the refs on their side at the start but either stopped getting the ball to Josh or he again faded from contact in the paint.

03-28-2009, 12:56 PM
The foul called on Downs in the second half when Hansbrough picked up his dribble simply was not being called on the GU offensive half of the court.

I gotta agree with this one, esp in light of the fact that TH can hack away like an axe murderer in the scrums and not get called. It would not have affected the outcome however, turnovers and rebounds were the reason for the loss. Oh and that UNC shooting % of almost 60% from 3 didn't help either.

TH will probably not have an advantage vs OU, as Griffen has also benefited from a friendly force in terms of the refs. OTOH, Griffen has sufferd some really cheap attacks, more so than TH IMO.

03-28-2009, 01:05 PM
Frankly, I think the general thing where people say "yeah the refs were bad but you have to overcome that" is stupid. Consumers of the product should be treated to better efforts then some of the mind blowingly incompetent referees put forward.

That said, we didnt look like we belonged on the same court as the Tar Heels yesterday, and I don't think we could have won with me officiating.

The refs werent terrific, but they werent bad. The Zags have been treated to much worse games in the past (last years Saint Marys road game comes immediately to mind)

03-28-2009, 01:06 PM
The refs were not completely fair, but I honestly would only be upset if this game was close. GU put their heart on the floor, and it simply wasn't enough against a talented and hot UNC team. There was no shame in the loss.

03-28-2009, 01:18 PM
I agree with Kroz. I also have enjoyed our Zags all year and thought they all left it on the court. The refs might have done some "interesting" calls, but tonight NC was really a great team and played like the champions they are. Thanks Zags for a great season.

03-28-2009, 01:54 PM
Frankly, I think the general thing where people say "yeah the refs were bad but you have to overcome that" is stupid. Consumers of the product should be treated to better efforts then some of the mind blowingly incompetent referees put forward.

from a player/team perspective, you have to overcome it; can't stop attacking or go passive, in fact the complete opposite is needed

from a fan's perspective, it's complete bs...reminded me of Texas Tech; whatever the outcome of the game, it's just a bummer at this level, unfair to the participants; only UNC had had a good game on the floor last night, and of course, they really did

winning the refs is part of winning basketball, but I'm not suggesting payoffs or something lurid.

It's perception, and how do you win that game. The refs are only human; if a Big12 official, for example, believes in his heart a team is better, stronger, faster, etc., which way do all of his close calls go, I ask you?

Clearly to me, it matters. It's an intangible. Knight, Coach K, they've talked about its importance (just watch them in action w/ the refs and it's evident). The talking heads play a role here.

I say, who wants that kind of jive help. Beat them. It's why I am so passionate about Gonzaga Basketball, and in general non BCS teams.

NOTE: I hope we all remember what the heads really think about us, how they let it all hang out this last week with glee; next preseason when they're stroking us, please remember the truth, don't buy the hype.


03-28-2009, 04:04 PM
In reply to your gripes about the refs, I agree on general principle throughout the tournament. I don't know that they favor any one player, but they do have a tendancy to not want to make a call they would have made in the regular season. That leads to inconsistency within the 3-man crew doing the game.
An example of that is the ticky-tack foul called way beyond the 3 point line, and then a no-call under the basket. AND, there is not one official that has the guts to call an intentional foul near the end of the game. There are so many times when it is obvious the player committing the foul is not going for the ball! That is what drives me crazy.

03-28-2009, 04:43 PM
Refs can be bad, refs can be good. What we can't do is turn the ball over that much and play such poor defense. End of story, from me.

Mad Ewok
03-28-2009, 05:57 PM
I suppose this is somewhat off topic but at the same time it relates. In the 'Nova Pitt game, when Blair got called for that walk near the end of the game, there was clearly some favoring going on. The ref was standing right besides Blair, CLEARLY watching his feet and didn't even make the call, it was a different ref.

But yes, you can almost ALWAYS tell when a team is getting the calls, and yes its typically your big name teams that Dukie V. and the Game Day folks praise so highly...