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View Full Version : Not with a bang, but a whimper



229SintoZag
03-28-2009, 11:58 AM
I have enjoyed Josh's odyssey as a Zag as much as any other player we have had. But a frustration I have had is his on again, off again play. Some games he is en feugo, some games he is just running around out there looking totally disengaged.

I was struck by his line from his final game ever as a Zag.

14 points (decent, but we needed more).

0 steals
0 blocks
0 assists
3 turnovers

and here is the best one:

0 rebounds. That's right, our big guy had a grand total of ZERO boards in this game. Zero boards in 29 minutes of action. I daresay Josh did not dare eat a peach last night.


For all the crap we give Daye for (justifiably) playing soft, Daye had 11 boards, four blocks and two assists to go with his 10 points. He wants to win.

I would also like to thank Downs, who also appeared to bring it. His three steals were the type of hustle play we needed to see more out of everyone.

I am not sure if we have the personnel coming in to do it, but this year's experience with Josh and Daye being our "post players" has made it pretty clear that we need more guys in the mold of Calvary, Batista, Dench, and Violette than guys in the mold of Josh, who never once was comfortable down low.

I don't care who else you have in your lineup or what they do--having your center get 0 boards in a Sweet 16 game against Carolina, and having the team get a grand total of two (as in one, two, buckle my shoe) offensive boards for the game, ain't ever gonna get er done.

That said, we still did better than about 320 D-1 programs this year. We got blitzed, but so did Arizona and Syracuse. We have established a foundation as a team that makes the tournament every year and makes the second weekend on average every other year. I firmly believe that we will continue to improve and will see Gonzaga break through to the next level in years to come. Thanks for a great year to the whole team, and thanks to Pargo, Josh, Micah, Ira and Andrew for a great career.

montanazag88
03-28-2009, 02:55 PM
Extrememly well put, Sinto. No coward in you my friend. My first reaction was that yours should be the most commented thread of the lot, but then again....there's not much to add. Reality bites, but facing it is necessary for success. I know it is not M. Few's style, but taking a player by the collar once in a while and putting the fear of the pine into him is not a bad thing. I hope he grows some eggs some time in his career.

Big players alone will not provide a strong post presence and rebounding as a skill is tought and developed - not a talent. That points right back to the coaching staff and control of players. Few tends to learn, although at a snail's pace, how to adapt to the qualities of a major conference contender. The talent is there....the evolution is next.

Hextall7388
03-28-2009, 03:04 PM
I agree Josh did not have his best game, but I think a lot of it had to do with the game plan to keep Josh out of foul trouble. He played very timid on the defensive end all night. When guarding you could see him keeping his hands back for fear of picking up a foul. I'm sure the plan came down from the coaching staff. We were destroyed in the paint and on the boards all night, could you imagine how bad it would have been if Josh got into early foul trouble?

It was inevitable that we would meet an ACC or Big East team in the tournament that would take advantage of our thin front court. Remove Josh from the equation and we are left with Daye at 190lbs as our center and Downs at 180lbs at power forward. Good luck stopping Hansborough, Davis and Thompson with that lineup!

BobZag
03-28-2009, 03:42 PM
Extrememly well put, Sinto. No coward in you my friend. My first reaction was that yours should be the most commented thread of the lot, but then again....there's not much to add. Reality bites, but facing it is necessary for success. I know it is not M. Few's style, but taking a player by the collar once in a while and putting the fear of the pine into him is not a bad thing. I hope he grows some eggs some time in his career.

Big players alone will not provide a strong post presence and rebounding as a skill is tought and developed - not a talent. That points right back to the coaching staff and control of players. Few tends to learn, although at a snail's pace, how to adapt to the qualities of a major conference contender. The talent is there....the evolution is next.

Few sat Josh and put Foster in, to send a message. What more should Few have done in that win-or-go-home game? Josh is what Josh is. A face-up SF. So now Josh is history at Gonzaga, so by posting his lack of stats with commentary about wanting a Batista or Violette again (duh!) is a great post? Okay, cool.

RenoZag
03-28-2009, 03:45 PM
That said, we still did better than about 320 D-1 programs this year. We got blitzed, but so did Arizona and Syracuse. We have established a foundation as a team that makes the tournament every year and makes the second weekend on average every other year. I firmly believe that we will continue to improve and will see Gonzaga break through to the next level in years to come. Thanks for a great year to the whole team, and thanks to Pargo, Josh, Micah, Ira and Andrew for a great career.

Good thoughts, 229.

bballbeachbum
03-28-2009, 05:21 PM
Extrememly well put, Sinto. No coward in you my friend. My first reaction was that yours should be the most commented thread of the lot, but then again....there's not much to add. Reality bites, but facing it is necessary for success. I know it is not M. Few's style, but taking a player by the collar once in a while and putting the fear of the pine into him is not a bad thing. I hope he grows some eggs some time in his career.

Big players alone will not provide a strong post presence and rebounding as a skill is tought and developed - not a talent. That points right back to the coaching staff and control of players. Few tends to learn, although at a snail's pace, how to adapt to the qualities of a major conference contender. The talent is there....the evolution is next.

just this past year, Coach Few sat Micah, then Steven, and both responded well; would you agree? just one example of what you call eggs imo

thought the adjustments and responses by all to losing Robert were mostly effective all year, without bailing anyone out for last night

no doubt the next step up is a doozy, man, but getting back to this one was a doozy too, no? the Sweet 16 is called SWEET for a reason...taste that, come on!!!

and a moment for the ages in there to boot

"tends to learn" "snail's pace" yikes, just seems to lack respect, no disrespect intended

I like where we've evolved to, and wish we were playing tomorrow


and what BZ said


GO TEAM ZAGS!!!

jim77
03-28-2009, 05:32 PM
My one gripe with the game was this: It seemed like every time somebody would hoist a shot there ws NOBODY even near the hoop. Its easy to get rebounds when nobody is home. Would it have mattered, probably not. The better team won. The guys had a great year but, we have got to up our game a tad to get to the final 4. To me we were out manned last night...and would have been against almost all the other teams remaining. So where does GU go from here?

My opionion is we need to go back to old school GU ball of pounding it more into the inside instead of 6 guys trying to nail 3's. Gu needs to simply get more physical to compete. When the season started and probably to the 2/3 of the way it appeared to me that there really was NO dominate team....and to me it appeared NO team was near the year before's Memphis's and Kansas's. These elite 8 games have changed my mind....OK/mich st/NC/Louisville..are all very physical teams. We simply aren't going to fineesse our way to a title. I'm not knocking this year's team..they played great and are very skilled players...their just not bangers. You can't cover a Blake giffin/t Hansbrough/dejuan Blair unless you're willing to pull the gloves off. We got out muscled last night pure and simple...we simply couldn't match their physical presence.

Looking forward though I think we are in great shape. We return some really talented fellas. Persoanlly, I think MEECH needs to be moved to the point ASAP. Its clear to me the kid has the speed to run with anybody..its also clear Matt needs to be on the court and is a great shooter....he needs to be moved to SG....with Steven getting good minuters also. This team has more than enough forepower..it needs more dedicated rebounders. I have confidence in Rob, in fact his size and strength is just what the DR. ordered...and I have high hopes for Andy also. Mr. Foster was much better this year than last and with hard work could make another jump and be a factor. We also have some serious talent coming in and a healthy Grant Gibbs who I'm anxious to see play. The future is very bright indeed.

In closing I thought this years team's talent took them about as far as they could go....28 wins is fantastic...I'm satisfied as a fan and very happy with the teams performance....Thanks again fellas for you're efforts! Jeremy-Josh-Micah-Ira-Andrew.

P.s. I was really happy with Austin's performance, the kid really played hardnosed basketball. This kid is really gonna light it up next year.....I REALLY hope he comes back.

GO ZAGS!

MJ777
03-28-2009, 05:42 PM
P.s. I was really happy with Austin's performance, the kid really played hardnosed basketball. This kid is really gonna light it up next year.....I REALLY hope he comes back.

I agree about Austin. I saw comments in other threads that said Austin played soft against UNC. 11 boards and 3 or 4 blocks is not soft. He had a double double against UNC, which is probably why he thinks he is ready for the NBA. I hope he comes back also as he needs the work before going to the show.

EngineerZag
03-28-2009, 07:38 PM
I was also proud of AD's effort against UNC, especially starting from about the 5 minute mark in the first half onward. He started playing great straight up D down low and then turning around and getting the rebound.

I don't know why Few would create a gameplan centered around keeping Josh out of foul trouble, when we have a tough, physical post defender in Ira Brown who didn't see any meaningful playing time!! :(

229SintoZag
03-28-2009, 09:12 PM
My post was not intended to rip either Few or Josh.

I am extraordinarily impressed with Josh and his journey as a Zag, especially since "the incident." He has overcome injuries as well, repeatedly. He is a phenomenal basketball player. He can do some phenomenal things on the court that no Zag before was capable of. But having zero rebounds out of the center position is the result of Josh being Josh last night and my point was to be cognizant not only of what playing Josh does for us, (which is a lot) but also what it costs us. I do not think anyone will disagree with me if I simply observed that it was not one of Josh's best games--for whatever reason, his head did not seem to be as into it as it was in his "on" games like the Santa Clara game in the WCC tournament.

My post was geared more toward how we approach the center position in the future given our personnel and style of play. We all know this: Josh was never a guy who boarded or scored with pretty drop step post moves a la Batista. Just not his game. It is not a judgmental commentary on him as a person or on his ability. Just an observation on what he does and does not do well.

Few coached as well as he could. No coach could have coached us over UNC last night. Carolina was that good. Mark Few has forgotten more this week than I will ever know or learn about basketball. I couldn't play on my high school JV team. Who am I to criticize Few?

I apologize to the board and to Josh if I was too harsh in the first post here. Not how I intended for this to come across. Again, thanks to Josh and all the seniors for a phenomenal career. And I do truly believe the best is yet to come for Gonzaga basketball.

NYCZAG
03-28-2009, 09:26 PM
I totally can hear what you are saying with this post but in life I think it's hard when you are young to not make mistakes but to own up to them and learn-I think Josh was all about this team this year he played hard he wanted to win and he left it out there every night-He is a competitive kid and I will miss his tenacity and smile-He didn't have his best game and the team didn't have there best game but that is basketball-I will leave you with this a father's wish for his son-Reading this made the sting of the game go away for me and made me even sadder than Josh is done at Gonzaga!-

"Rolin S Heytvelt- memories of a little boy practicing shots, running drills, triple threat, learning he could dunk the ball, motivation to run the floor. As you rise to the next level continue to grow your game. Always remember; Good, Better, Best! NEVER let it rest, until your good is better and your better is BEST! You are a shooting star..."