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View Full Version : What will our defense look like?



HillBillyZag
03-25-2007, 11:36 PM
With the infusion of young athletic bodies into the system and more fouls to give I am made to think that we will see more traps and at least more use of a half court press when we are zoning. With long quick athletes like Gray, Downs, for the front spot, I am guessing we may see some 1-3-1 zone to get after the 3 point shooters out of the corners and on the wings. What do you think?

youreachiteach
03-26-2007, 02:33 AM
defense? you are expecting defense?? lol...

kjstoph1
03-26-2007, 05:34 AM
With the infusion of young athletic bodies into the system and more fouls to give I am made to think that we will see more traps and at least more use of a half court press when we are zoning. With long quick athletes like Gray, Downs, for the front spot, I am guessing we may see some 1-3-1 zone to get after the 3 point shooters out of the corners and on the wings. What do you think?

1-3-1 zone defense is of the devil.

Actually - all zone defense is of the devil.

Sincerely,

Tony Bennett.

meadgrad02
03-26-2007, 06:03 AM
1-3-1 press can be effective, if you have a long, Errol Knight type of guy out on top causing havoc..

applezag
03-26-2007, 06:37 AM
If we choose to run a 1-3-1 a significant amount of the time, rather than just as a wrinkle or a change-up, there needs to be a heck of a lot of time invested in it. At that level (actually even at the HS level), the 1-3-1 can be one of the easiest defenses to get layins against if it is not done right. If teams aren't well-drilled in it, having only one man assigned permanantly to the baseline is dangerous.

tyra
03-26-2007, 07:24 AM
JH improved on his foot movement and lateral movement this year but I have a hard time seeing him play that spot. Kuso?

CDC84
03-26-2007, 08:28 AM
applezag is right about the 1-3-1. It's like the matchup zone in that if you choose that as your defense, it had better be the staple of your program, and you had better be masters as running it. West Virginia is really the only program that I know of who have made the 1-3-1 into an art form.

I think we will see more full court pressure than ever before, and that GU will primarily plan man. Heytvelt, Kuso, Davis, Sacre and Daye are all long, athletic shotblockers. Downs can shotblock as well. I don't know of a team in the country next year that will have so many shotblockers. Let those guys protect the rim, and then extend the guards and wings out on the perimeter. If anybody sneaks by the guards, the shotblockers will greet them at the rim.

Kind of like what Florida does.

I think Gonzaga needs to keep it simple, but exert great effort and attentiveness to the defensive end.

BobZag
03-26-2007, 09:04 AM
1-3-1 zone defense is of the devil.

Actually - all zone defense is of the devil.

Sincerely,

Tony Bennett.

If you have the long athletes, a zone can help with a National Championship.

Sincerely,

Jim Boeheim

sdzag
03-26-2007, 09:10 AM
Not to mention the old defense of "if we scored more then they did, we played good defense" always works! But I'm excited for some new defensive blood to come into GU. I liked when we pressed this year and thought we should have done it more. Just makes the game more exciting and get the pace of the game up with turnovers and busted press lay ups. I think that the zags have the peices and at least someone different to try and put them in the right places. Few always has a new wrinkle on the Offensive end and I can't wait for the D to have a simliar bag of tricks.

ZagSlug
03-26-2007, 09:12 AM
I would love to see lots of full court pressure "40 minutes of hell" type of D at times. Guess I am looking for "5 minutes of hell" a few times during the game.

Hopefully there will be enough able bodies to sustain the effort and some shot blockers down low to cover for guards extending to defend the trey.

Asotin
03-26-2007, 09:20 AM
"If you have the long athletes, a zone can help with a National Championship.

Sincerely,

Jim Boeheim"


If you have Carmelo Anthony, you can win a national championship.

Nevtelen
03-26-2007, 09:23 AM
I just don't ever see GU going to a "40 minutes of Hell" kind of defensive scheme. It's just not the kind of ball the team plays. I don't see Giacoletti instituting it, either. But we can still play good D without that. I wouldn't mind seeing more pressing at times, even if it's only "leech time off the shot clock, disrupt the half-court comfort zone" kind of pressing that we saw this year.

Things I would like to see: less fouling in "need-to-get-a-stop" situtaions towards the end of games; better help D in man-to-man scheme (not that wer did this particularly badly, but especially when Josh was in the middle it seemed like pretty often he would be prepared to come over and help and block a shot and the other defender would foul unecessarily to stop the shot from going up; also, better communication and decision-making when leaving an open man to double up, esp in the post).

I remember several games where our zone was really effective when extended out far enough and I'd love to see that continue (and hopefully work that well consistently). I think that's a possiblity with all the shot-blocking talent we'll have.

I'd also like to see some new defensive wrinkles. We need to keep doing well the things we do well (like protecting the paint), but I hope this will be the first change to the staff in a while and I hope it brings positive changes I hadn't thought about. Surprise me. Take something we've struggled with and make it work.

CDC84
03-26-2007, 09:32 AM
I just don't ever see GU going to a "40 minutes of Hell" kind of defensive scheme. It's just not the kind of ball the team plays.

Most teams that utilize such defenses are usually doing it to cover up their limitations on offense...especially in the halfcourt.

Gonzaga could hold teams to 60 PPG next year and 37% shooting, and they will still be an offense first program. Offense is the foundation of this program, just like it is with Florida, no matter how many shots Noah and Horford may swat or how many wings Corey Brewer may lock up.

I just think Gonzaga needs to keep it simple and exert more effort and concentration of the defensive end. It's pretty simple.

sonuvazag
03-26-2007, 09:34 AM
Are we still interested in a team that pushes tempo (Florida) or would we like to see the Zags muck it down into brutal wars of attrition (UCLA)?

With our deep bench, I'd like to see a full-court press and up-tempo style but I'm curious about UCLA's success.

cggonzaga
03-26-2007, 09:44 AM
If you have the long athletes, a zone can help with a National Championship.

Sincerely,

Jim Boeheim


Yeah, it didn't hurt having Warrick at the top of that zone. Try getting a shot over his arms.

tobizag
03-26-2007, 09:45 AM
...or would we like to see the Zags muck it down into brutal wars of attrition (UCLA)?


:vomit-smiley-007:

Let's stick with the uptempo game.

CDC84
03-26-2007, 10:01 AM
With the amount of offensive firepower and athleticism on next year's team, you will see Gonzaga push the ball more than they ever have before......

ZagDaddy
03-26-2007, 10:53 AM
I just think Gonzaga needs to keep it simple and exert more effort and concentration of the defensive end. It's pretty simple.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. This is largely what bugs me about our D over the years and what I just love about Pendo. Playing good defense is so much a question of desire and a willingness to work hard on the defensive end. Pendo is not gifted with great foot speed or wingspan but look at the effort he puts out on the defensive end. He's relentless. The main thing is he doesn't make it easy for opposing players because he works hard.

I want to see that level of effort MANDATED from our guys. Get that kind of effort out of the incoming talent and things will vastly improve.

I want to see us pull guys out of the game for resting on defense, or failing to rotate quickly, not guarding the baseline drive, or not jumping out on guys who have used up their dribble etc.

Doing a better job of defending ball screens would be nice. Watch UCLA defend those and see how it should be done. They do a terrific job of forcing the ball farther from the basket.(Oregon paid dearly for not doing it right yesterday.)

And please recognize who you are playing. You don't have double down on teams without a decent low post threat only to leave their best shooters open.

And please, please, please recognize who the shooter is who is torching you from the outside. It might be a good idea not to leave him.

To me these are all basics, but it all comes down to effort and you get effort when you make it a priority. You make it a priority by tying PT to it.

siliconzag
03-26-2007, 10:54 AM
He was supposedly the one credited with the quote, "...the best defense is a great offense." He never made it to the final four, he was the basketball coach of Johnny and Eddie O Brien, the wonder twins that put Seattle U on the map. His tradition was carried on by John Castellani. Hec Edmundson was also known for "firehouse" basketball, meaning they really pushed it too.

While UCLA and Butler can put you to sleep with their emphasis on Defense, it is hard to argue with success. I still believe the better defensive teams tend to win during the big dance.

I am still not a big fan of the zone defense. I have been persuaded by CD and BZ and others, more astute than myself, that the zone defense was best adapted for the Zags, because we didn't have the quickness. Too me, if the speed impediment is overcome, then I can't see why we shouldn't play an agressive MTM defense.

HillBillyZag
03-26-2007, 11:38 AM
Well if you like to run (sic), its hard to beat the old half-court press 2-1-2 . Coach Bill Morrison won a lot of games at St. Pats with it and yours truly ran a lot of laps for failing to make that outlet pass or hitting the breaker. And a good switching zone is hard to beat. I also ran a lot of laps for failing to yell switch when dropping off my coverage. And yes Virginia, rebounding is 90% position and blocking out! Just ask Pendo! (lol). Good grief, I love basketball, and to think its only around 8 mos. or so until practice starts. Perhaps I could be put into stasis during the off season and only awaken when I hear the thump of a ball off the floor.

Zag79
03-26-2007, 12:35 PM
ucla style d? ugh. gimme man to man, with a good press while letting the bigs protect the lid. florida is a good comparison. with GU, the offense will still win most games but the better D would win more close ones and take us further in march. i like it. im not overly concerned with D in general as our play is about O. just seeing the 3s taken away would be great for me.

wazZag
03-26-2007, 01:26 PM
defense? you are expecting defense?? lol...

GU held opponents to 39.9% this year.

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/gonz/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/cumulative-stats.pdf

CDC84
03-26-2007, 01:49 PM
The Zags actually held opponents to a lower FG % than the Bruins did this year. About 2% better.

That being said, UCLA generates a ton of steals, and they seemingly always get big stops in crucial game moments. The latter is something that Gonzaga really struggles with.

brasszag
03-26-2007, 01:52 PM
Shot-contesting defense vs TO-creation defense

siliconzag
03-26-2007, 02:34 PM
is brilliant in anticipating passes and therefore interrupting passing lanes. It is a disruptive defense, and accordingly when guys find themselves open they get sometimes are so surprised that they blow easy shots. Does anybody have the statistic of what kind of FG % there was before and after Heytvelt's suspension? Anyway, the more upstream you work (meaning not letting the set offense get started in the first place) the better off you are. Howland is a very successful coach right now.

Sili

BobZag
03-26-2007, 03:03 PM
Play D similar to how Duke does it.

Pick up the guards near halfcourt, body up on them, and if they get around our guards there's enough shotblockers to swat them.

Be disruptive in passing lanes and disrupt offenses with bumping and denying, and for heaven's sake get hands up on shooters.

Zags should have the speed and length and bigs to give them a chance to do this.

applezag
03-26-2007, 03:15 PM
I am with CDC. I'm not that concerned with what we do, but that we commit to it all-out effort is demanded. And simplicity will probably get the job done best.

Florida does seem to be the most like us as far as a model to go from.

If we decide to defend Dookie-style, then the staff has to really demand a lot as far as extending into the passing lanes. I think that has actually been our philosophy to a certain extent over the years, but players just didn't do it much and that was fine because PT was dictated by the offensive end and rebounding effort.

I think three the three things that need to change the most, regardless of the scheme are:

1. Contesting all jumpshots--the good defensive teams do this (every team that is left does it), we don't

2. Every player moves quickly on every movement of the ball--we have been way too slow to react to ball movement in the past

3. Pride in stopping your man off the dribble--just not sure it has been there with all of the guys.

The thing is, the staff has taught all of these things for years, but has not demanded them. Hopefully that will change this year.

CDC84
03-26-2007, 03:47 PM
The thing is, the staff has taught all of these things for years, but has not demanded them. Hopefully that will change this year.

The greatest thing in the world to teach a lesson is the bench. Gonzaga has so many talented offensive players on next year's team that PT will be at a premium. I hope the bench is utilized for any players that decide to take a defensive vacation...it can now be done without it effecting the offense whatsoever.

Bulldog
03-26-2007, 04:22 PM
Maybe Dick Bennett could come out of retirement for a year and be our defensive coach.

Asotin
03-26-2007, 05:59 PM
Playing good D takes allot more than just hustle and desire. If a player isn't taught good defensive fundamentals, both individual and team/help, then all he will do is hustle himself out of position and get smoked. Intensity without direction leads to easy baskets on back door cuts and overplays and also leads to lots of cheap fouls due to being out of position.

SunDevilGolfZag
03-26-2007, 07:18 PM
No offense intended, but IMO, compared to UCLA's defense and the defense played by other Elite 8 teams during the tourney, the Zags defense, particularly on the perimeter, is like a rec league level in terms of intensity That needs to change to ever make the Final Four. I'm confident that it will.