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View Full Version : Returning points, Lost points



BobZag
03-24-2007, 10:42 AM
Lost points:

Raivio - 18.0ppg
Mallon - 8.0 ppg

Returning points:

Heytvelt - 15.5ppg
Pargo - 12.1 ppg
Bouldin - 8.9 ppg
Downs - 8.1 ppg
Pendo - 7.3 ppg
Kuso - 4.9 ppg
Foster - 0.7 ppg
Theo - DNP
LG - DNP

New points:

Ira - 16.0ppg, 8.9rpg at Juco D2 level
Daye - 30.9ppg, 14.7rpg, 7bpg in Orange County, CA
Gray - 19.2ppg, 8.5rpg, 6apg in Seattle Metro League
Sacre - 19.2ppg, 11.8rpg in North Vancouver, BC

I think Theo, Sacre and Ira more than make up for Mallon's 8ppg and 4.2rpg, plus any improvement by Josh and Kuso.

Replacing those 18ppg by Raivio will depend on improvement by Pargo, Bouldin and Downs, along with continued development of Pendo's offense. Bouldin and Downs should make that big frosh to soph leap, with Downs having basically completed his frosh year of on-court experience. Gray and Daye should chip in, to help alleviate the loss of Derek's points.

Bigs = more points, more boards
Guards = more points, more assists

Few has every right to be excited. The next two years could be GU's best ever.

ZagAddict
03-24-2007, 11:17 AM
BZ... I agree that the future is bright for GU and they have enough talent next year to offset Raivio and Mallon's points. The one things I think GU will miss most next year is Raivio's reliability at the free throw stripe. I think we all took Raivio's ability at the line for granted... especially at the end of the game. In close games GU is going to have to step up to the line with confidence/focus and put games away without the luxury of Raivio.

As we have all seen this year... in the NCAA tournament you have to convert on free throws.

tyra
03-24-2007, 11:23 AM
No question: we will not have anyone as automatic as DRav in that regard. (Maybe ever!) And no question, next year's team (injury question aside) should be much better. But I also still worry about a consistent outside threat. Drav was also a terrifying deep threat to teams. That's why so many of them developed their game plan around "shut Raivio down". When they did, we often hurt. I know, I know: Micah is a legitimate outside threat but still . . .

ZagAddict
03-24-2007, 11:29 AM
Good point tyra...

The athleticism at GU is more abundant than it ever has been, but GU is thin on legitimate outside threats. Next year I hope Downs and Bouldin can be consistent beyond the 3 pt line, and that Pargo can begin to hit 3pt shoots with regularity. We will need those outside shots working next year to free up the BIGS for points in the paint...

SpudDawg
03-24-2007, 11:58 AM
at the end of the season. Like to see that continue. Also, Gray (if he doesn't redshirt) could also develop into a threat.

VaBeachZAG
03-24-2007, 12:34 PM
The thing uppermost on my mind is not the points (they will be there). My concern is where does the team leadership come from? Who will be the team's inspiration on the floor, who can inspire the team to show it's heart and push it's competitive spirt to the max - and beyond. Maybe I am blind, but I sure didn't see such leadership in the Indiana game. I have no preference whatsoever as to who this person will be, I just feel for the 07/08 team to excel, with all the great talent present, someone must step up and claim that role!!

ZagDaddy
03-24-2007, 01:22 PM
My concern is where does the team leadership come from? Who will be the team's inspiration on the floor, who can inspire the team to show it's heart and push it's competitive spirit to the max - and beyond.

Next year's team is Pendo's team. I'm not too worried about it with he and Pargo leading things.

spudzag
03-24-2007, 01:30 PM
Looks like a faster team with the ability to score from every position. Should make scoring a bit easier for the entire roster. The scoring from the guard slot should fill in nicely with a bump in the front court. :o

BobZag
03-24-2007, 02:57 PM
No question: we will not have anyone as automatic as DRav in that regard. (Maybe ever!) And no question, next year's team (injury question aside) should be much better. But I also still worry about a consistent outside threat. Drav was also a terrifying deep threat to teams. That's why so many of them developed their game plan around "shut Raivio down". When they did, we often hurt. I know, I know: Micah is a legitimate outside threat but still . . .

Click on this link and look at 3-point shooting % for Downs, Pendo, Heytvelt, even Pargo and Bouldin. Pargo and Bouldin should improve on their %.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/teams/gaj/stats

As for leadership: Pendo, Pargo and a 25 y/o Ira Brown should provide plenty of it.

Auto-FTs by Raivio is a concern. Ohio State hit, like, 14 in a row to snuff out Memphis.

ZagAddict
03-24-2007, 03:03 PM
Once Pendo was given the green light to shoot more often he was as accurate as I have ever seen in a GU uniform... I'd like to see him get some more looks next year.

tyra
03-24-2007, 03:18 PM
I am a stubborn mule. I still think what we would benefit greatly from is someone who can create their own outside shot (catch, dribble, juke, bombs away). None of our players who are competent outside men can really do that. Josh hurts you because it is hard to guard him inside and outside. His defenders get caught slacking off. Micah can go over you because he is an tall, athletic type. And Pendo certainly showed his trey chops on designed plays. I like the kind of moves that are shown on Austin Daye's video where he CREATES his own outside shot. Of course, that is mostly against people who simply aren't in his league. Nuff said.

BobZag
03-24-2007, 03:26 PM
I am a stubborn mule. I still think what we would benefit greatly from is someone who can create their own outside shot (catch, dribble, juke, bombs away). None of our players who are competent outside men can really do that. Josh hurts you because it is hard to guard him inside and outside. His defenders get caught slacking off. Micah can go over you because he is an tall, athletic type. And Pendo certainly showed his trey chops on designed plays. I like the kind of moves that are shown on Austin Daye's video where he CREATES his own outside shot. Of course, that is mostly against people who simply aren't in his league. Nuff said.

Point taken. Pargo does a nice job of creating his shot but mostly from 15' and in. Downs did a few times. It'll be interesting to watch off-season improvements. :) Ammo really improved his 3-point shooting through hard off-season work; let's hope everyone works that hard with similar results this off-season.

VinnyZag
03-24-2007, 03:39 PM
Don't worry about it. Pendergraft provides it, as someone else pointed out. And with all due respect to Raivio, it always appeared to me that Pargo was the leader last year, and he's back.

Bocco
03-24-2007, 04:29 PM
As for leadership: Pendo, Pargo and a 25 y/o Ira Brown should provide plenty of it.


My money is on Pendo. Starting or off the bench he will be the team leader next year.

BobZag
03-24-2007, 04:31 PM
The team returns about 59 points, a far cry from last year when the team darn near lost 59 points!

And LG and Theo would've been worth points but were forced to redshirt.

Me like for next season.

VaBeachZAG
03-24-2007, 04:32 PM
Pendo, Pargo, and Brown? Fine. But team leadership is not a part time job! Whoever assumes that role needs to be there in every practice and in every game; in my view, that was not the case this past season (of course I can only speak to games, not practices). So...., Pendo, Pargo, and Brown, bring it on! But make sure you do so 24/7!!!

Bocco
03-24-2007, 04:37 PM
The team returns about 58 points, a far cry from last year when the team darn near lost 58 points!

Me like.

Returns 58 points and I would expect Heytvelt, Pargo, Bouldin, Downs, Pendo and Kuso to increase their production next year - especially Downs and Pendo. Add to that the incoming players, and Theo and LG we should be able to score. Now if we can just get the team to play a lock down defense...............

Bulldog
03-24-2007, 05:44 PM
I'm ready, when is the first game.

Ziggy
03-24-2007, 05:57 PM
The last games of the season AH (After Heytfelt) We played a faster paced and defensively more intense game (w/ the exception of Indiana) and or free throw shooting percentage took a dramatic hit; I think we dropped from 2nd to 15th nationaly. The best explanation of this is that we "lost our legs" especially as the games wore on (w/ the exceotion of DRAV) If we are gonig to play that style of ball next year then the conditioning has to be that much better. Run 100 suicides/make 10 free throws or something like that,IMO.

RebornZag
03-24-2007, 06:28 PM
Personally, I don't think the missed free throws were a result of tired legs. I would be totally shocked if they had tired legs...I'd say tired psyche's. All a result of Josh's huge mistake in Cheney. There was a lack of focus and concentration at the line. As there was that whole last game. The big question I think is still, "What is this team's chemistry really like?" Bad foul shooting can also be a result of bad team chemistry. I'd have to say the team chemistry WOULD have to change when Josh was suspended. Here's an example of what I'm talking about...When Derek said to Downs during the semi's of the Conference Tournament to "pass The F_ _ _ ing ball." That is not good team chemistry to me. Some also posted about Bouldin not being real happy about NOT playing the #1 position. Not good chemistry. I happpy is Downs when he's being sent in and out? And how about PMAC? These are things I hope get resolved by next year. I thought the team chemistry was about as bad as I've seen it at GU in the last 10 years...

23dpg
03-24-2007, 07:30 PM
15.5 of those ppg are not a given. I hope he does return, but I'm not counting my chickens yet.

BobZag
03-25-2007, 10:23 AM
Personally, I don't think the missed free throws were a result of tired legs. I would be totally shocked if they had tired legs...I'd say tired psyche's. All a result of Josh's huge mistake in Cheney. There was a lack of focus and concentration at the line. As there was that whole last game. The big question I think is still, "What is this team's chemistry really like?" Bad foul shooting can also be a result of bad team chemistry. I'd have to say the team chemistry WOULD have to change when Josh was suspended. Here's an example of what I'm talking about...When Derek said to Downs during the semi's of the Conference Tournament to "pass The F_ _ _ ing ball." That is not good team chemistry to me. Some also posted about Bouldin not being real happy about NOT playing the #1 position. Not good chemistry. I happpy is Downs when he's being sent in and out? And how about PMAC? These are things I hope get resolved by next year. I thought the team chemistry was about as bad as I've seen it at GU in the last 10 years...

Derek to Downs is typical among teammates, especially a veteran to a newbie. Raivio was wide open. Downs didn't look to pass. He should've. Tommy Lloyd was all over Micah after that. Bad chemistry = fiction.

Bouldin was NEVER unhappy not playing PG all the time. He was a frosh, and a starter. That's rare at GU. Unhappy? That's bull. Bad chemistry = fiction.

Downs was still shaking out the rust, trying to learn the system, he was never yanked in and out. He understood he was behind the curve. Bad chemistry = fiction.

The Pmac situation has been resolved.

"Some also posted..." Careful what you believe. If I had a nickel for every false "insight" by anonymous posters on message boards, I'd be dating Jessica Alba.

http://www.abstracthiphop.com/hip-hop-honeys/jessica_alba_sitting_on_the_floor.jpg

jbslicer
03-25-2007, 10:27 AM
"nice find."

brasszag
03-25-2007, 10:37 AM
The Pmac situation has been resolved.

?!

RebornZag
03-25-2007, 12:24 PM
I respect your opinion, Bob. I only write and share what I see, know and believe. I don't believe the missed free throws were a result of "tired legs." And the solution is not to implement a tough conditioning program. I don't think this team had good chemistry. And by chemistry I'm not talking about them going to girls' ball games and having fun together. I'm talking about the team "gelling" on the court. It has to do with players and their roles on the team, and I think it has to do with players treating other players on the team with RESPECT on and off the court. It's just an opinion, I have. I think there was one player in particular who couldn't do that. And I think it hurt the team!!! My prediction is that this team will gell next year, and we will have the team chemistry that was lacking this year. Pendo will be the perfect leader, and his leadership will be a significant factor next year. I look forward to very good things next year, and one reason I do is the leadership of Pendograft. He takes me back to the Casey Calvary type of Zag. Not in skill.....in SPIRIT.

Ziggy
03-25-2007, 12:58 PM
Please offer an alternate reason for the dramatic fall-off in FT percentage, as
well as an alternate explanation for the success of the team after josh's
departure besides "good chemistry".

spudzag
03-25-2007, 01:36 PM
?!

The televised tougue lashing PMAC took for the blocking call while pressuring the ball in the back court during the Indiana game didn't give me the impression that the friction was resolved.

RebornZag
03-25-2007, 04:27 PM
That will be a lot easier then making up about 53 ppg or so that we had to make up after the departure of Adam, JP and Errol. Making up 26 ppg should not be too hard. I also believe we will be a better rebounding team by far. Getting beat on the boards by 15 in the last game is unimaginable.

RebornZag
03-25-2007, 05:49 PM
"The PMAC situation has been resolved." by BZ. Bob have you inside information about PMAC not returning to play next year? I noticed in your thread that when you put down Returning Points that you didn't have his name down. I have those same thoughts.

spudzag
03-25-2007, 06:17 PM
"The PMAC situation has been resolved." by BZ. Bob have you inside information about PMAC not returning to play next year? I noticed in your thread that when you put down Returning Points that you didn't have his name down. I have those same thoughts.

Nice observation Reborn. Burgess is missing to. Perhaps that answers the question that has floated through numerous threads.

RebornZag
03-25-2007, 06:46 PM
Spudzag: I don't have Burgess on my list either. I do have Foster and I do have LG. I hope Bz shares any insights he has on this matter. Maybe PMAC will go with Grier?

tyra
03-25-2007, 09:09 PM
You mean you AREN'T dating Jessica Alba?


Fantastic Four comes to your theatres this summer!

zaguarxj
03-27-2007, 10:17 AM
The Pmac situation has been resolved.


??? Any follow up on this ???

Nevtelen
03-27-2007, 10:32 AM
Not that it is necessarily implying anything (in fact, it might actually indicate that this is not the case), but in his press conference at USD, Grier said that his first recruiting priority is to recruit a guard to be a back-up PG. That might seem to reinforce a PMAC to USD theory, but it also might not - would PMAC want to go to and sit for a year just to be a back-up PG his senior year? Plus, there is the year that he would have to sit. That wouldn't help with the back-up PG issue which Grier apparently thinks is paramount at the moment.

Just some thoughts to stir the p-o-t.

UberZagFan
03-27-2007, 11:32 AM
POINTS! POINTS! POINTS!

We had this discussion last year after losing 50 points. And guess what? GU averaged just about a point and a half less than their average over the past 8 years.

Unjustified concern this is.

GU will put up 80 so ppg next year but it would be nice to see them hold the opponents in the low 60s.

BZ: Nice to see you post a pic....keep up the good work. ;)

P.S. A lot of that decline in FT% had to do with Kuso taking many more FTs than BH.

jayray
03-27-2007, 11:42 AM
The Pmac situation has been resolved.


Okay, you've peaked my curiosity. Is he following Grier? Transferring elsewhere? Quitting? I hope for his sake he transfers and actually gets to play somewhere. What a total waste of talent - not sure if he is at fault or the coaches are at fault but what a waste of talent.

VanZagar
03-27-2007, 12:43 PM
Zags will be fine in terms of points scored. They need to do something dramatic about points allowed if they want to compete past the sweet 16.

youreachiteach
03-27-2007, 12:50 PM
Pmac has only himself to blame from being a starter to getting 45secs a game.

sonuvazag
03-27-2007, 01:06 PM
Pmac has only himself to blame from being a starter to getting 45secs a game.

You may be right. Is this a blanket statement that suggests all players are ultimately responsible for their own destiny regardless of the coach's approach to them. To me, the situation is so mysterious. Between Few's lack of confidence in PMAC and PMAC's lack of confidence in himself, I'm not sure where the circle begins or ends.

Echoing what has been said already: so much talent there.

I also want to start my 2007-08 campaign now: Pendergraft is supremely talented and not just a overachieving, tenacious player.

brasszag
03-27-2007, 01:42 PM
I've seen lots of earlier interviews where Few has nothing bad to say about PMAC except that he's tentative on the floor - he's got great basketball IQ, and great physical gifts... we all know this and so does the coaching staff.

PMAC just never seems to have turned the corner to becoming an "unconscious" player. It is sad to see so much potential not capitalized on. I think Few has wanted PMAC to be a killer, and that's just not consonant with his innate personality.

I'll also agree that Pendo's gifts are just now coming to the forefront, the less he has to play as a "big man" and can play in a more mobile situation.

tom o dachi
03-27-2007, 09:30 PM
If Pmac is forced to leave the team, I will lose a lot of respect for the coaching staff. Although he hasn't panned out as most had hoped for, he is a real team player both on and off the court. It's just not right to take a scholarship away from a player that has been on the team for three years and going into his senior season.

Nevtelen
03-27-2007, 10:08 PM
There's no way PMAC would ever be forced to leave the team - Few is very loyal to his seniors (some would say to a fault). But he might look at the deep, talented rotation and see little PT for himself if he stays and decide to move on. Or not. This is all just wild speculation (or my part in it is, anyway).

zaguarxj
03-28-2007, 08:15 AM
I'm not an expert on this subject, but I think that any player who wants to move on to another team at this point could be released from their letter of intent by GU, allowing them to play without sitting out for a year, like Micah Downs did for Gonzaga. GU would probably agree to release a player in order to free up a scholarship, depending on who that player is.

BTW, I have zero inside information. This is pure speculation.

brasszag
03-28-2007, 09:05 AM
...allowing them to play without sitting out for a year, like Micah Downs did for Gonzaga.

Micah did sit out a year... half his frosh and half his soph year.

zaguarxj
03-28-2007, 10:05 AM
Micah did sit out a year... half his frosh and half his soph year.

Ah, so that's what happened... Never mind.