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Akzag
03-14-2009, 11:32 AM
All the games, less the clutter.

Seminoles up on Carolina with 2 minutes to go ...

Akzag
03-14-2009, 11:34 AM
btw ... anybody else getting a strange deja vu-ish feeling about Syracuse ... ?

RenoZag
03-14-2009, 11:43 AM
Fla State, Miss State, Ohio State all knock off the regular season conference champs. . .

If Syracuse does knock off L'ville, Ak, then I think I might join you in the "getting that feeling about. . ." club.

CDC84
03-14-2009, 11:53 AM
I wouldn't be surprised, as Dan Bonner mentioned during the Tulsa/Memphis game, if Syracuse bombs out the first weekend. People are going to be thinking very highly of them, but teams that go to heroic lengths to win games in major conference tournaments quite often perform badly in the NCAA tournament. 'Cuse may have nothing left in the gas tank, no matter how resilient they might be.

BTW - Utah is in the MWC title game vs. SDSU.

MDABE80
03-14-2009, 11:54 AM
AK good call. I was thinking about that last night. Lots of stamina it seems and they're really peaking at the right time. We'll know more soon.

zagfan24
03-14-2009, 11:57 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but thus far...

1. North Carolina - Lost
2. Pittsburgh - Lost
3. Memphis - Won
4. Connecticut - Lost
5. Louisville - In Championship
6. Michigan State - Lost
7. Oklahoma - Lost
8. Duke - In Semis
9. Wake Forest - Lost
10. Washington - Lost
11. Kansas - Lost
12. Gonzaga - Won
13. Villanova - Lost
14. UCLA - Lost
15. Missouri - In Championship

RenoZag
03-14-2009, 12:01 PM
S. Davis on CBS sez UNC still has a strong shot at the Overall # 1 seed.

FWIW, my # 1's, would be:

Memphis
UNC
Louisville ( If they beat The Orange tonight )
Pitt

Who do I think the Committee will Pick?

UNC
UCONN
PITT
LVILLE or MEMPHIS

brian_sun
03-14-2009, 12:01 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but thus far...

1. North Carolina - Lost
2. Pittsburgh - Lost
3. Memphis - Won
4. Connecticut - Lost
5. Louisville - In Championship
6. Michigan State - Lost
7. Oklahoma - Lost
8. Duke - In Semis
9. Wake Forest - Lost
10. Washington - Lost
11. Kansas - Lost
12. Gonzaga - Won
13. Villanova - Lost
14. UCLA - Lost
15. Missouri - In Championship


D*&n, I swear I haven't seen these many top 15 teams losing in the same week in 15 years watching BOTH college football and college basketball.

brian_sun
03-14-2009, 12:02 PM
S. Davis on CBS sez UNC still has a strong shot at the Overall # 1 seed.

FWIW, my # 1's, would be:

Memphis
UNC
Louisville ( If they beat The Orange tonight )
Pitt

Who do I think the Committee will Pick?

UNC
UCONN
PITT
LVILLE or MEMPHIS

I think UConn is a 2 and Memphis is a 1.

Akzag
03-14-2009, 12:06 PM
All I want for Christmas ... Okay, the Ides of March ...
A win for Utah ...
A win today and tomorrow from the Vols (currently up 10+ on Auburn, 1st half) ...
A win today from the Terps (and if I was greedy, over the 'Noles tomorrow as well).

That would be ... grreeeeat.

jazzdelmar
03-14-2009, 12:13 PM
call me a cynic, but all these chalk teams losing too early in conf tourneys is a tad suspicious to me......get some rest and get another conference team in the dance or at a higher seed equals more $$$ for the conference...hmmmm....

Sarenyon
03-14-2009, 12:28 PM
I really don't think that teory is too far off base Jazz. No one likes to lose but I think that at least high ranked BCS teams are not too concerned about being knocked out of their tourneys.

Nevtelen
03-14-2009, 12:40 PM
Tenn is choking like a vegan at a hot-dog eating contest. Man.

zagfan24
03-14-2009, 12:50 PM
I really don't think that teory is too far off base Jazz. No one likes to lose but I think that at least high ranked BCS teams are not too concerned about being knocked out of their tourneys.

Exactly...which is why UNC doesn't play Lawson with a minor injury. They knew they had a #1 seed locked up, and rest and recovery are far more important for some teams.

Going into the NCAA tournament with some momentum can be helpful, but the process of winning a major conference tournament is extremely taxing. I'm guessing a lot of coaches understand this and lay off the gas a bit, but I could be wrong.

wiszag
03-14-2009, 01:25 PM
I agree Jazz, I don't think it's rampant but I think it happens.

Tenn did it's part. Now Maryland needs to step up.

Akzag
03-14-2009, 02:22 PM
so long Maryland ...

BobZag
03-14-2009, 04:09 PM
A terrific game between USC-ASU. Libbey worked it. :) USC came from way back to eke it out.

NEC26
03-14-2009, 04:13 PM
I thought both the charge call and the swallowed whistle on a clear foul on Taj were ridiculous. The refs certainly helped the Pac to get another team in.

brian_sun
03-14-2009, 04:14 PM
A terrific game between USC-ASU. Libbey worked it. :) USC came from way back to eke it out.

Great! Pac 10 gets at least 5 into the field, and hoping AZ can make it to 6. Talk about a down year with at least half of the teams making it to the dance.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 04:16 PM
Another bid is gone.

brian_sun
03-14-2009, 04:18 PM
Another bid is gone.

Doesn't look too good for St. Mary.

BobZag
03-14-2009, 04:21 PM
Great! Pac 10 gets at least 5 into the field, and hoping AZ can make it to 6. Talk about a down year with at least half of the teams making it to the dance.

Down year = Quality, not quantity. If numbers dictate an up or down year, the Big Ten would not be putting 7 or 8 teams in.

OT: The official who swallowed his whistle and called a charge on Harden was not Libbey, it was the younger, dark-haired guy.

ZagAddict
03-14-2009, 04:23 PM
Another bid is gone.

That noise at the end of the USC/ASU game was the bubble bursting for Arizona and SMC. The PAC-10 isn't getting 6 teams in...

BobZag
03-14-2009, 04:26 PM
I think Maryland goes NIT. I'd be surprised if SMC is left out. Creighton won't make it before SMC.

brian_sun
03-14-2009, 04:30 PM
I think Maryland goes NIT. I'd be surprised if SMC is left out. Creighton won't make it before SMC.

BZ, Lunardi had SMC as the last team in the LAST FOUR IN, and USC as the 4th team in the LAST 4 OUT. So if you move USC to the field of 65, SMC is out. I think USC's win just push SMC out of the tourney.

BobZag
03-14-2009, 04:32 PM
BZ, Lunardi had SMC as the last team in the LAST FOUR IN, and USC as the 4th team in the LAST 4 OUT. So if you move USC to the field of 65, SMC is out. I think USC's win just push SMC out of the tourney.

SMC will be in. Lunardi will set it right in time.

NEC26
03-14-2009, 04:37 PM
Lunardi thinks SMC is in if Utah beats San Diego St. based on their head to head win on a neutral floor.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 04:38 PM
I think Maryland goes NIT. I'd be surprised if SMC is left out. Creighton won't make it before SMC.

SMC over Maryland? With wins over UNC, WF, MSU and an SOS of 22 compared to SMC at 148. If that happened, that would be very sad. RPI very close and will probably change in Marylands favor by tomorrow.

Add Michigan too.

ZagAddict
03-14-2009, 04:45 PM
The reality is that SMC should not be evaluated at 100% with Mills not completely healthy after his injury...

San Diego St. is hanging tight with Utah with under 2 minutes to play...

BobZag
03-14-2009, 04:48 PM
SMC over Maryland? With wins over UNC, WF, MSU and an SOS of 22 compared to SMC at 148. If that happened, that would be very sad. RPI very close and will probably change in Marylands favor by tomorrow.

Add Michigan too.

Too many losses for the Terps. 13. They are my favorite ACC team so I pull for them, but they had a losing ACC record.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 04:52 PM
The reality is that SMC should not be evaluated at 100% with Mills not completely healthy after his injury...

I agree with that. Teams don't get a break for having an injured player. The entire team is judged including their depth.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 04:56 PM
Too many losses for the Terps. 13. They are my favorite ACC team so I pull for them, but they had a losing ACC record.


I see your point there. I do think Maryland, especially how they are playing now would stomp on SMC. Too bad they did not beat Duke. That would have been two positives :D

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 04:58 PM
I am looking forward to watching the Orange tonight. Do they have enough left in the gas tank? I had not watched them all season until they played UConn. What a game and then to go on and make it look like WV was the tired team. I love March!

TM27
03-14-2009, 05:00 PM
I have two questions....

#1 Why are there so many UW posters here trying to keep GU fans in check? Did Romar or Chris fetters send you? I am surprised at your gall by coming over here considering you represent a school that ended an in-state rivalry based simply on getting your ass handed to you over and over and over. I for one would be embarrassed if say we ended the series with Memphis because we didn’t beat them. Something to be proud of when a school applies the "anytime, anywhere approach"...but maybe that is why you are here?

#2 And since I already know your rebuttal....can someone help me to better understand the broken RPI system. A conference like the Pac-10 doesnt beat anyone out of conference (as a conference I think I counted the following top 50 RPI wins...BYU, UTAH, KANSAS, Ok St... again, that's as an entire conference...seems pretty low? i thought maybe I missed some teams???) Anyhow they come into Pac-10 play with inflated mid 70 RPI's then they beat up on each other and at the end of the year they have a ton of teams in the top 50. This is misleading and shows that the RPI=broken....and just for good measure, isn’t this what the SEC does in college football?

Do others agree or am I confused? I watch the Pac-10 games and it sure seems like the teams are not that good... what am I missing?

As a preemptive measure...I realize GU lost to Arizona, I do not think the WCC as a whole is better, I do think GU is better than UW, and I do think the color purple is a feminine color.

ZagAddict
03-14-2009, 05:02 PM
San Diego St. just lost a nail bitter to Utah in the WAC Championship. I would have SDSU in the tourney before SMC even though SMC beat SDSU earlier in the year. SDSU is completely healthy and was very competitive in the conference finals against Utah. SMC is healthy and was beat everyway possible in a 25 point defeat in their conference finals.

21 hours and counting... :D

Nevtelen
03-14-2009, 05:03 PM
I see your point there. I do think Maryland, especially how they are playing now would stomp on SMC. Too bad they did not beat Duke. That would have been two positives :D

It's not a head-to-head match-up, though. They don't choose 1 team over another based on a hypothetical game that was never played. And teams do actually get a break for having an injured player, if that player is back by the tourney. Mills is pretty clearly back to form, looking at the game last night.

I think SMC is in and Maryland is, too. In some ways, I think the committee will put St Mary's in to prove a point - injuries do matter, just like they've always said. I think Creighton will be on the outside looking in.

Nevtelen
03-14-2009, 05:05 PM
San Diego St. just lost a nail bitter to Utah in the WAC Championship. I would have SDSU in the tourney before SMC even though SMC beat SDSU earlier in the year. SDSU is completely healthy and was very competitive in the conference finals against Utah. SMC is healthy and was beat everyway possible in a 25 point defeat in their conference finals.

21 hours and counting... :D

Mills clearly wasn't healthy in that game, which was at least as much part of keeping SMC out as the loss IMO.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 05:15 PM
It's not a head-to-head match-up, though. They don't choose 1 team over another based on a hypothetical game that was never played. And teams do actually get a break for having an injured player, if that player is back by the tourney. Mills is pretty clearly back to form, looking at the game last night.

I think SMC is in and Maryland is, too. In some ways, I think the committee will put St Mary's in to prove a point - injuries do matter, just like they've always said. I think Creighton will be on the outside looking in.

An injury of a non-spectacular player does not matter and if you look at his statistics, he is a non-spectacular player. Not they hype, the nunbers. Yes, the experts hyped him up at the end of the season for some reason - but if they were so good, why were they not in the rankings? Agree about the hypothetical game. Still, Maryland is a better team.

I think Maryland is in and SMC is out. We will see tomorrow.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 05:20 PM
Syr - Lv = Good game so far. Find myself cheering for the Orange.

Das Zagger
03-14-2009, 05:21 PM
San Diego St. just lost a nail bitter to Utah in the WAC Championship. I would have SDSU in the tourney before SMC even though SMC beat SDSU earlier in the year. SDSU is completely healthy and was very competitive in the conference finals against Utah. SMC is healthy and was beat everyway possible in a 25 point defeat in their conference finals.


You want to phone a friend on this one?

RenoZag
03-14-2009, 05:21 PM
San Diego State lost the MWC title game to Utah. . .

NEC26
03-14-2009, 05:22 PM
If Syracuse wins its possible it hurts us in seeding I definitely want Louisville to win this one.

dawgfather11
03-14-2009, 05:23 PM
I have two questions....

#1 Why are there so many UW posters here trying to keep GU fans in check? Did Romar or Chris fetters send you? I am surprised at your gall by coming over here considering you represent a school that ended an in-state rivalry based simply on getting your ass handed to you over and over and over. I for one would be embarrassed if say we ended the series with Memphis because we didn’t beat them. Something to be proud of when a school applies the "anytime, anywhere approach"...but maybe that is why you are here?

#2 And since I already know your rebuttal....can someone help me to better understand the broken RPI system. A conference like the Pac-10 doesnt beat anyone out of conference (as a conference I think I counted the following top 50 RPI wins...BYU, UTAH, KANSAS, Ok St... again, that's as an entire conference...seems pretty low? i thought maybe I missed some teams???) Anyhow they come into Pac-10 play with inflated mid 70 RPI's then they beat up on each other and at the end of the year they have a ton of teams in the top 50. This is misleading and shows that the RPI=broken....and just for good measure, isn’t this what the SEC does in college football?

Do others agree or am I confused? I watch the Pac-10 games and it sure seems like the teams are not that good... what am I missing?

As a preemptive measure...I realize GU lost to Arizona, I do not think the WCC as a whole is better, I do think GU is better than UW, and I do think the color purple is a feminine color.

I'll bite

#1 i've been here from the start and was a longtime member on the previous forum so doubtful you have been here before me... but yes if it makes you feel better you can think that chris fetters or romar personally asked me to come over here.

#2 Ok so I get it you think the RPI is broken, what about our sos? which is 12th? Or how about Kenpom which ranks the pac-10 as the #2 conference in the country? I mean their has to be something if all these places are ranking us that high no? I know UW has played 11/12 different teams that will make the tourney this year depending on if zona makes it or not going 11-7 in those games. GU with 7/8 same deal with zona going 4-5 against tourney teams. So really who is better? Just some food for thought...

Or hell top 100 wins
UW 13
16 Oklahoma St.
24 ASU
24 @ASU
36 UCLA
40 USC
40 @USC
55 Clev. St.
57 Arizona
91 WSU
91 @WSU
100 Stanford
100 @Stanford
100 Stanford Neutral

GU 8
16 Oklahoma St. Neutral
23 Tennessee
23 @Tennessee
47 St. Mary's
47 @St. Mary's
47 St. Mary's Neutral
52 Maryland Neutral
91 @WSU


Fwiw you may not know but i'm a big zag fan as well that's why i'm here and I like the intelligent conversation I get on this board from everyone but abe and gozags :P Also am definitely rooting for ohio state and duke tomorrow so GU doesn't lose it's 4 seed.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 05:24 PM
You want to phone a friend on this one?

Or poll the audience?

BobZag
03-14-2009, 05:28 PM
An injury of a non-spectacular player does not matter and if you look at his statistics, he is a non-spectacular player. Not they hype, the nunbers. Yes, the experts hyped him up at the end of the season for some reason - but if they were so good, why were they not in the rankings? Agree about the hypothetical game. Still, Maryland is a better team.

I think Maryland is in and SMC is out. We will see tomorrow.

? I don't know what to say, really.

TM27
03-14-2009, 05:31 PM
Dawgfather...I also was a long time scout member. Not sure who joined first...fact still remains you spend your free time on an opposing teams message board trying to keep these "fans" from getting too excited about their team. why? there is a difference b/w intelligent basketball conversation and using UW examples at every turn. I normally enjoy the outside perspective, but the last week there seems to be a lot of you UW/GU fans. On a side note how in the heck is that combo of favorites even possible? I guess now that we dont play each other you can root for both teams ;)

As for #2...you are missing the point. The pac-10 does not secure quality wins outside of the conference, then they beat up on each other and magically become a ranked conference? When watching the pac-10 do you think that they are the #2 conference in the nation?

Your top 100 wins is exactly the fuzzy math I am talking about. All of those are pac-10 teams with inflated rankings? No?

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 05:32 PM
That is only two games out of your conference. I don't think UW has a lot of experience with different styles. Having said that. I think a game against UW and Gonzaga would be a good game and anyone could win it. I don't see us playing UW this year, but you never know.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 05:34 PM
? I don't know what to say, really.

Just my opinion BZ. I know that I will get a lot of disagreement with it. It is mine though.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 05:38 PM
Jonny Flynn is a spectacular player!

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 05:45 PM
If Syracuse wins its possible it hurts us in seeding I definitely want Louisville to win this one.

Syracuse is currently sitting at a #4 along with the Zags. They win this game, they may move a 3 to a 4.

Nevtelen
03-14-2009, 05:46 PM
An injury of a non-spectacular player does not matter and if you look at his statistics, he is a non-spectacular player. Not they hype, the nunbers. Yes, the experts hyped him up at the end of the season for some reason - but if they were so good, why were they not in the rankings? Agree about the hypothetical game. Still, Maryland is a better team.

I think Maryland is in and SMC is out. We will see tomorrow.

I realize that a lot of GU fans are tired of hearing Mills get hyped. I agree that all the talk of "SMC would clearly have beated GU with Mills" was a bit overdone, but Mills really is a great player. He can be overhyped at times, yes, but underneath all that hype there is truth. He really is very good. I bet you any player in the conference would tell you as much if you asked them. Oh, and SMC was in the rankings before Mills injury.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 05:47 PM
OMG - No injury please. That looks serious.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 05:59 PM
I realize that a lot of GU fans are tired of hearing Mills get hyped. I agree that all the talk of "SMC would clearly have beated GU with Mills" was a bit overdone, but Mills really is a great player. He can be overhyped at times, yes, but underneath all that hype there is truth. He really is very good. I bet you any player in the conference would tell you as much if you asked them. Oh, and SMC was in the rankings before Mills injury.

I remember about the rankings now. Right. I never agreed with it - so I forgot.

Let's look at his number though...Ast 3.7 / To 2.9, Steals 2.3, Blocks 0.2
FG %.404, FT % .852 , 3 point % .343

His strong points are speed and FT %. I see no numbers that show him as anything more then your average run of the mill (PI) point guard.

Jeremy Pargo with all his struggles this season is ranked 43 in Assists with 157. Patty is not ranked with 84 and 67 turnovers. His shooting is not great. Please tell me what is so great?

Edit - Please don't tell me it was because of the injury, because his numbers were the same before the injury with a lot lower SOS.

Also - hope no one is getting upset - These are just my thoughts.

bballbeachbum
03-14-2009, 06:02 PM
glad that kid walked away...wow, scary fall

Flynn finally looks tired

that bubble is mighty tight..............

Nevtelen
03-14-2009, 07:02 PM
I remember about the rankings now. Right. I never agreed with it - so I forgot.

Let's look at his number though...Ast 3.7 / To 2.9, Steals 2.3, Blocks 0.2
FG %.404, FT % .852 , 3 point % .343

His strong points are speed and FT %. I see no numbers that show him as anything more then your average run of the mill (PI) point guard.

Jeremy Pargo with all his struggles this season is ranked 43 in Assists with 157. Patty is not ranked with 84 and 67 turnovers. His shooting is not great. Please tell me what is so great?

Edit - Please don't tell me it was because of the injury, because his numbers were the same before the injury with a lot lower SOS.

Also - hope no one is getting upset - These are just my thoughts.


I'm generally not all that fond of the 'eye test' but I do agree with it in this case - just watch the guy play and you can't deny that he is a great player. I also think stats like assists are hampered because he has been asked to score so much himself this season. He has also played as much SG as PG for SMC. But really all you have to do is watch SMC with him and without him - a night and day difference. Mills is the definition of a 1 man fast break and his shooting has gotten quite a bit better as the season has gone along (though he is still not a great long-range shooter). He is probably the best clutch player I have seen since Lofton, though. He makes great decisions consistently and seems to have another gear when needed. I've watched just about all of SMC's televised games this season and have (usually) been very impressed with him.

In a lot of ways he reminds me of a player like Ginobli or Parker - in many ways, their raw stats aren't always that impressive, but they are consistently cited as great players.

RenoZag
03-14-2009, 07:08 PM
Syracuse finally ran out of gas. . .but they deserve a standing "O" for the heart they displayed.

I think the Cardinals may be a # 1 come 3:00 pm Sunday afternoon. . .hell, there might be THREE Big East teams taking # 1 seeds. Stranger things have happened.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 07:47 PM
Syracuse finally ran out of gas. . .but they deserve a standing "O" for the heart they displayed.

I think the Cardinals may be a # 1 come 3:00 pm Sunday afternoon. . .hell, there might be THREE Big East teams taking # 1 seeds. Stranger things have happened.

I hope Gonzaga plays with the same toughness of Syracuse. My gosh. 7 OTs, then they put up a good fight. Finally got tired. They do deserve a standing O.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 07:52 PM
I also think stats like assists are hampered because he has been asked to score so much himself this season. He has also played as much SG as PG for SMC.

You may have something there, that I had not considered. I just don't think SMC as a team with or without Mills is very good. Good yes, Very good, no. Put Patty on another team and maybe he would show a lot better numbers. He is very very quick.

It will be interesting and good for the WCC if they are in. I just don't think they deserve it.

Also -- The eye test is very deceiving when you are playing lower opponents. They did play us close two games, but I think we are the team we saw in the last two games. Not the team which was stumbling along with certain issues. I always think Gonzaga is better than they really are. Part of that might be the eye test.

RenoZag
03-14-2009, 07:53 PM
Utah State will make the NCAA after thumping UNR's WolfPack here in Reno.

Congrats to Stew Morill's Aggies for win # 30. . .they're up by 15 with 2:58 to go.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 07:56 PM
Utah State will make the NCAA after thumping UNR's WolfPack here in Reno.

Congrats to Stew Morill's Aggies for win # 30. . .they're up by 15 with 2:58 to go.


This could help SMC's case a little. I still think they are short.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 08:04 PM
Another lock.

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 08:16 PM
Looks like Joe just put SMC back in.

Don't worry, I am wrong a lot! :lmao:

Nevtelen
03-14-2009, 08:42 PM
Utah State will make the NCAA after thumping UNR's WolfPack here in Reno.

Congrats to Stew Morill's Aggies for win # 30. . .they're up by 15 with 2:58 to go.

Glad to hear that - I really dislike Nevada.

brian_sun
03-14-2009, 08:45 PM
Looks like Joe just put SMC back in.

Don't worry, I am wrong a lot! :lmao:

SMC better pray Tenn beat Miss. State tomorrow. That's the last bubble busting game on schedule.

RenoZag
03-14-2009, 08:49 PM
Glad to hear that - I really dislike Nevada.

Me too. . .

johnwzag
03-14-2009, 08:54 PM
Me too. . .

Me too!