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meadgrad02
03-23-2007, 06:35 PM
Really looked like Green traveled. 2 pivot feet anyone? Seemed like it looked obvious on the replay. Anyone else think so?

dawgman1999
03-23-2007, 06:40 PM
I really doubt the refs would call travel on that. CBS just showed that, it was a travel. How many lives do those #1 and #2 seeds have? So far all 6 teams advanced to the Elite 8 are #1 and #2 seeds.

former1dog
03-23-2007, 06:43 PM
I really doubt the refs would call travel on that. CBS just showed that, it was a travel. How many lives do those #1 and #2 seeds have? So far all 6 teams advanced to the Elite 8 are #1 and #2 seeds.

Gotta give kudo's to the committee this year. They done good.

meadgrad02
03-23-2007, 06:44 PM
It was obvious though, the refs haven't swallowed the whistle in a lot of the other games, like last night's games. I just feel bad for Vanderbilt i guess, I was really pulling for them. They won't be happy when they see the end, but whatever.

mdZag23
03-23-2007, 06:47 PM
Not only did he switch pivot feet, but he traveled when he made the initial spin. Basically traveled twice with 2 officials right on top of it.

Then they come down the court and it really looked like they fouled on the last shot!???

BobZag
03-23-2007, 06:47 PM
Travel.

You see, Libbey would've called it. :p

sittingon50
03-23-2007, 06:51 PM
One of the officials was Richland's Dick Cartmell. He's done a lot of Zag games over the years as well as a lot of Tourney games. Not sure which position he occupied on that travel.

meadgrad02
03-23-2007, 06:52 PM
yeah MDzag i agree, even though it's at the end of the game, you shouldn't be able to get away with it to WIN the game. but it's over, so now who cares. I'd like to have seen Vandy win it, too bad.

sullyzag66
03-23-2007, 07:04 PM
One of the officials was Richland's Dick Cartmell. He's done a lot of Zag games over the years as well as a lot of Tourney games. Not sure which position he occupied on that travel.

Cartmell was the trailing official at half court. He appeared to have a clear view from his angle. I watched the play several times, frame by frame, and I'm not sure it was a travel. Once he gained possession of the ball after almost losing the dribble, he maintained one pivot foot and took one step to the basket.

I think Cartmell has been in the last three or four Final Fours and has done at least two Championship games. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the Final Four this year, but I haven't heard anything yet.

mdZag23
03-23-2007, 07:38 PM
Sully, he traveled...

From the rule book.

g. In starting a dribble after receiving the ball while standing still, or after coming to a legal stop, a player may not jump before the ball leaves his hands, nor may he lift the pivot foot from the floor before the ball leaves his hands.

sullyzag66
03-23-2007, 08:35 PM
Well, he definitely lifted the pivot foot before he released the ball, so if them's the rules, they missed it. He walked.

gonzagulous
03-23-2007, 09:37 PM
Billy Packer watched the replay and was convinced it wasn't a travel. Kind of like how the Duke guy was DEFINITELY going for the ball when he broke Hansbrough's nose. :boxing:

Argentum
03-24-2007, 12:38 AM
Sully, he traveled...

From the rule book.

g. In starting a dribble after receiving the ball while standing still, or after coming to a legal stop, a player may not jump before the ball leaves his hands, nor may he lift the pivot foot from the floor before the ball leaves his hands.

That particular rule isn't relevant because it refers to starting the dribble: you can't jump into the air and then decide to dribble.

When I watched the play in question in slow motion on replay, it looked like a legal move to me. You're allowed to lift the pivot foot, but you can't put it back down again while you have the ball or it's a travel. If you weren't allowed to lift the pivot foot the jump shot would be illegal.

FuManShoes
03-24-2007, 02:01 AM
You guys forget that the refs didn't swallow the whistle when they called an offensive foul on G-Tech with something like 30 seconds left. That was a pretty dicey play that a lot of refs would have let go.

NJZag
03-24-2007, 05:18 AM
http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/03/24/sportsextra/doc4604bac160f7b079815652.txt

Vanderbilt coach Kevin Stallings refused to ruin Green’s big moment.

“I’m certainly not going to take away from the dignity of this game,” Stallings said. “I haven’t seen the replay. Don’t care to. He made a great shot.”

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While Packer can voice his opinion of the play or whether the refs were right or wrong all he wants, he is no "friend" of Georgetown and he never has been. (After all, a school with 6,000 undergraduates like G'town, doing well in a D-1 sport, doesn't "fit" the Packer image of what college sports is supposed to be all about. The SEC football schools with 20,000 to 40,000 students -- and even private Vandy has 23,000 -- "fit in" much better with the big is better theorists like Packer.)

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Relevant subsection on the NCAA rules is highlighted:

Rule 4, Section 66.
Travel:

Art. 1. Traveling occurs when a player holding the ball moves a foot or both feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits described in this Rule.
Art. 2. A player who catches the ball with both feet on the playing court may pivot, using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot.
Art. 3. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. When both feet are off the playing court and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either may be the pivot foot;
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch shall be
the pivot foot;
3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultane-
ously land on both; neither foot can be the pivot foot.
b. When one foot is on the playing court:
1. That foot shall be the pivot foot when the other foot touches in a
step;
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on
both; neither foot can then be the pivot foot.

Art. 4. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:

a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;

b. The pivot foot shall not be lifted before the ball is released to start a dribble.
Art. 5. After coming to a stop when neither foot can be the pivot foot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the play-
ing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. Neither foot shall be lifted, before the ball is released, to start a drib-
ble.

Interesting discussion about various CBS talking heads and their incorrect rules interpretations are here:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1058

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Further insight: The last FG by Vandy was at about the 5:00 in second half with their last 6 or 7 points coming from the FT line, and a couple calls that produced those charity stripe visits seemed "generous". Georgetown's final 26 of 27 points came from FG's and not the charity stripe. They got those points the hard way, by playing the game. If the zebras are to be called on wanting to "help" either side of last night's game, it wasn't a bias directed in the Hoyas favor.

That's my story ... and I'm sticking to it!